Ancient Warcraft Lore - The Fractured History of the Alliance

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Ancient Warcraft Lore - The Fractured History of the Alliance

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Күн бұрын

Many associate The Alliance with stability and defending Azeroth against evil, but in the World of Warcraft, is that viewpoint accurate? Let's discuss the Warcraft Lore behind the history of The Alliance of Lordaeron, er, Eastern Kingdoms, er, Stormwind.
Ancient Warcraft Lore is a KZfaq series where we discuss all things old Lore and Story in the Warcraft Universe. From the truly dilapidated corners of game manuals and obscure unit statistics to observable and documentable in game lore, this is all about bringing back the glory of ancient lore of Warcraft.
Ancient Lore is a followup to the long forgotten podcast Ancient of Lore from WoW Radio. Starting back in mid 2005, Ancient of Lore was the first lore and story discussion broadcast on the subject of World of Warcraft. We continue that legacy of critical thinking and analysis here.
Find me across the interwebs:
Twitch - / danination
Twitter - / leto
Discord - www.tinyurl.com...
All material in this broadcast was recorded by myself from the Turtle WoW private server. For rights use and syndication, please email dan.hahn.2737@gmail.com
#warcraft #warcraftlore #alliance #worldofwarcraft #asmr

Пікірлер: 60

@TheDanNation Жыл бұрын

Thank you for watching! If you haven't already, take the time to check out the rest of the Ancient Lore series at the playlist below, as well as subscribing to The Dan Nation for the regular updates I put out. www.youtube.com/@TheDanNation/subscribe kzfaq.info/sun/PLz3HFn9IbUgkjnDezofH-cz0_0I6urUOe

@philippeblais8594 Жыл бұрын

Regarding how the high elves were brought into the Alliance. You forgot to mention that Stormwind's regent. Anduin Lothar was the last descendant of Thoradin. The first ever human king. Thoradin aided the high elves during the troll wars. And in return, Quel'thalas gave Thoradin an I.O.U which his descendants could also call upon.

@TheDanNation Жыл бұрын

I appreciate the comment on this. This is information released with an update that Blizzard did to the World of Warcraft Encyclopedia sometime after it's launch in late 2006, and doesn't take the time to even mention the Tarren Mill incident. Considering this was added a decade after Warcraft 2 was released, and how the Warcraft Encyclopedia was discarded already, I really didn't feel it reasonable to mention. I'd encourage you to head back to the first episode of the series, I lay out a lot of the lore and story I discount or even write off, you can find it right here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Y6uGes2o2qi5pI0.html

@TheMarko33 Жыл бұрын

Sometimes I wish back to the good old days, when the Alliance was just Humans, High Elves, Dwarves of the Bronzebeard and Wildhammer clans and Gnomes! I wished the Scarlet Crusade wasn't so xenophobic towards non-Humans and allowed High Elves, Dwarves of the Bronzebeard and Wildhammer clans and Gnomes within the Crusade so it would be an evil version of the Alliance of Lordaeron The Horde Counterpart of the Comment is on the Ancient Warcraft Lore - The Foundation of the Horde Video 😉

@NostraDavid2 Жыл бұрын

Same. The Nelves are simply too far away to be with the alliance. Neutral, sure, maybe even friendly, but not part of the alliance. Also kick out the space goats and maybe let the Broken join. Maybe... I'm definitely missing the old skool alliance.

@greenelf444 Жыл бұрын

They actually did in early Warcraft lore and this can be found in the halls of champions in the scarlet monastery, it is implied that the non human members were killed on saiden’s orders aka balnnazzar’s orders since saiden had been killed at this point

@TheMarko33 Жыл бұрын

@@greenelf444 That was Retconned in the Ashbringer-Comic, Now the Scarlets were always xenophobic, also Alexandros and Fairbanks who were in the Classic Lore Members of Scarlet Crusader is retconned so that the Scarlet Crusade and the Argent Dawn were founded after his death

@damackabet.4611 10 ай бұрын

@@greenelf444I just assumed they died out naturally for most part either through battle or sickness, and that their may still be some left in scarlet that aren't human but dwarf/gnome/elf simple that they don't have enough members of them for blizzard to bother making a model, as the majority of the scarlet are lordaeronian in the first place and they recruited almost exclusive from lordaeron which is a human nation.

@831ACH 2 ай бұрын

Looking forward to that further analysis of the allies and why the night elves joined them.Thanks

@josejuanandrade4439 Жыл бұрын

Well Varian is close friend with Broll because of this time as captive of the Orcs, and Broll has some influence on the Cenarion Circle... so maybe that gives us some extra ties on why the Nelves would be so much in the side of the Alliance.

@TheDanNation Жыл бұрын

For this series I'm generally discounting the books/mangas/comics as outside of scope, with a lot of that material in my opinion being poorly written. In addition, the comics started being released in 2008 to set up for Wrath's launch, long after the time period I'm discussing of 2002 to 2005. Appreciate your thoughts on this, and sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, but this project has a very specific perspective in mind. I'd recommend you check out the series launch episode for more context, links below. Thank you! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Y6uGes2o2qi5pI0.html

@connorquinn7193 Жыл бұрын

Mangas are one thing but the books are the backbone of the lore for the WoW universe if it isn’t an openly discounted point, than it’s canon. Doesn’t really matter how well it’s written shadowlands was shit all together but sadly that bs is canon too

@TheDanNation Жыл бұрын

@@connorquinn7193 If that's how you're approaching this, then this probably isn't the series for you. Thanks for watching.

@TheDanNation Жыл бұрын

@@thundergodd6086Sounds good, bye then.

@joshuamendoza5321 Жыл бұрын

good video, Randomly found it while leveling in classic wow. Been listening to it while i play. Can't wait for more!

@TheDanNation Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much, I'm glad you liked it!

@NerdCookies Жыл бұрын

Keep up the great work!

@TheDanNation Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much, I hope you're liking this series so far! Keep up the great Warhammer work yourself, been enjoying them bigtime.

@nith_ael Жыл бұрын

Thank you for saying what I've always thought about having night elves in the Alliance. It never made sense to me the agressive, xenophobic, intolerant to arcane magic and technology people who got rid of monarchy would bend the knee to a human king on the other side of the world.

@TheDanNation Жыл бұрын

It's never truly made sense to me, they get virtually nothing out of aligning themselves with these random peoples they just met, on top of some very exceptionally aggressive methods the Kaldorei have for solving problems. In a future episode I'll dive more deeply into how the original setup for Night Elves in Warcraft 3 felt at the time, and why something never truly clicked with them, IMO, in the first place. Thank you for watching!

@damackabet.4611 10 ай бұрын

The orcs do heavily encroach on their lands in ashenvale and later darkshore so it's probably more an alliance of convenience than them giving a shit about eastern kingdoms.

@Jp808 Жыл бұрын

Dig the personal commentary on some parts of the lore. Enjoying the series keep it up

@TheDanNation Жыл бұрын

Thanks so much, absolutely will do! The episode for tomorrow is already coming together nicely about what *IS* Azeroth, according to Blizzards constantly changing definitions.

@JeezcakesHD Жыл бұрын

Very nice video!~ Quick tip to up the quality of your already fantastic videos. Take your audio and pass it through a background noise filter. Cant wait for more keep it up!

@swob_8435 Жыл бұрын

I think some background music would help with enhancing the experience, otherwise, he does a really good job!

@TheDanNation Жыл бұрын

I've thought about backing tracks, I've just been lazy about finding tracks that wouldn't get videos DMCAd that I actually like.

@NostraDavid2 Жыл бұрын

Isn't most wow music "free to use"? It's in a grey area, but Blizzard isn't known for going after people using their music in videos about their game.

@TheDanNation Жыл бұрын

It is 100% a gray area for sure, but some takedowns due to Warcraft soundtrack copyright claims have happened, not recently but they have, and I'm being super cautious with this series.

@onoz75000 Жыл бұрын

Very cool. Thanks for making this!

@TheDanNation Жыл бұрын

Thank you for watching it!

@tamas9554 11 ай бұрын

I never played the Warcraft games, but I did watch the Human and Scourge campaigns on KZfaq. I was quite surprised, because the campaigns themselves were mainly just gameplay. While the dialogue and the story is the base of the entire game, its remarkable that Blizzard was able to tell a decent story with that little writing. The identities of charaters and factions had a larger role, and so did the fantastical approach of the story. For example, look at the night elves. Today's Kaldorei don't possess the power fantasy they had in Warcraft 3. I think some retcons were good for the game's story overall, like how the elves are not savages in WoW anymore (if they were at all in Warcraft 3), but their warrior side is greatly lacking. Malfurion embodies this really well in my opinion, he's supposed to be the greatest druid to ever walk Azeroth... and he is a loser in the modern story. Both in BfA and Legion, I just feel like he is a marginal side character, while he should deserve at least as much spotlight as his brother. I feel like the universe shifted away from its original approach to the story, the power fantasy isn't the same anymore. I heard from an ex WoW player that he thinks the Orcs became too human like. The world was more brutal in the early stages of the story. This is why I liked the Lords of War cinematic series in WoD, those weren't messing around either! :D Immersion is only achievable with an approach like this

@Robin...222 Жыл бұрын

Very nice video!

@TheDanNation Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much!

@Viper1Zero Жыл бұрын

Awesome video! Keep it up!

@TheDanNation Жыл бұрын

Thank you! Episodes fir this week are already nearly ready, looking forward to seeing how people like my more opinionated thoughts tomorrow.

@spyfire242 9 ай бұрын

I do think the decision to divide players into 2 distinct and unchanging factions hamstrung the storytelling very hard over the years, especially the further we got into modern WoW, the Horde and Alliance made less and less sense. Races can join them but cannot leave. If I could go back and make the decisions I would have players be neutral with all factions and earn reputation with each.

@TheDanNation 9 ай бұрын

I know it would have made development that much harder, but the two faction nonsense makes no sense. There's other factions in the world that players should have been able to participate in that had nothing to do with the two war machines that like the squabble and bicker.

@rodneydehulk Жыл бұрын

Nice today i found a new wow youtube channel!! Great voice my G! Subscribed asap to you🎉

@TheDanNation Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@Hwarming Жыл бұрын

Night Elves being in the Alliance makes more sense than Forsaken being in the Horde

@TheDanNation Жыл бұрын

To a certain extent, this is me cherry picking, HOWEVER I believe as I stated in the Horde episode previous to this that there was a constructed thread and set of justifications behind how the Forsaken landed with the Horde, and even still Thrall and Cairn kept them at arms length, giving a feel of distrust that felt fleshed out and in character. The distance didn't make the most sense which is why we got the Zeppelin network. The justification for the Kal'dorei joining the Alliance was not only much more poorly documented and flimsy in justification, but also practically never referenced or shown at all in game. With the Forsaken, there's the caves underneath Thunder Bluff filled with Forsaken agents, a direct line from the negotiations and manipulations of the Grimtotem. The Alliance has... the park district. It feels very plastic and "Of course the Elves joined the good side, they're elves!" I appreciate the thoughts but I disagree with your statement.

@user-rd5jw4ls2u Жыл бұрын

@@TheDanNation Also, if I recall from the Sylvanas book, she stated that Lordearon was of strategic interest to keep the Alliance in check. Thunderbluff and Orgrimmar were on the opposing continent. They would've had near zero presence in the Eastern Kingdoms until Silvermoon was incorporated, but even then the Sin'dorei were invited because of Sylvanas herself. The Undead joining the Horde makes 100% sense.

@TheDanNation Жыл бұрын

@@user-rd5jw4ls2u As I mentioned in my opening episode, I am by vast majority discounting the novels, comics, and mangas. I agree with your statement, it makes perfect sense, but just so you know.

@user-rd5jw4ls2u Жыл бұрын

@@TheDanNation First time viewer here. Maybe include that in your opener 🙂 But it makes strategic sense through the lense of realpolitik anyways and doesn't require a lot of lore to support. The Kul Tarins proved that escaping to Kalimdor wouldn't rid them of the Alliance. Having a beach head, or at the very least, a buffer state to soak up Alliance resources would be valuable.

@TheDanNation Жыл бұрын

@@user-rd5jw4ls2u I cover this in my series opener, as I wanted to present my perspective up front before even the first full episode. You can watch it here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Y6uGes2o2qi5pI0.html

@Matt77125 Жыл бұрын

It always irked me how the night elves were part of the alliance and undead were part of the horde.

@IVPixel Жыл бұрын

i mean they joined because the horde killed cenarius so it like sorta kinda makes sense

@Matt77125 Жыл бұрын

@@IVPixel The real real reason is that they wanted to incorporate the 4 different wc3 factions into 2 so we could play as them. Like how they gave high elves to the horde purely to add more race variety.

@IVPixel Жыл бұрын

@1337ontoast obviously but we're talking about the (shitty) lore and not blizzard's bullshit gameplay reasons

@TheDanNation Жыл бұрын

I would strongly argue that the night elves didn't differentiate between WHO killed Cenarius, just that outsiders had. Kaldorei society, especially after the Highborn survivors told them to go to hell, is extremely xenophobic. While it's very true that it was the Horde that slaughtered the woodland god, that just gives them greater justification to hate all outsides, not make an alliance with a certain group of them (part of which is well known for excessive and destructive industrialization).

@amarjamakovic1297 Жыл бұрын

Night Elves and Forsaken should have never been parts of Alliance and Horde. They just don't feel natural or organic parts of those factions. Alliance should have been Humans, Dwarves and High Elves, while Horde would be contained of Orcs, Trolls and Tuaren.

@sergeanttentacles1359 Жыл бұрын

Obviously the night elves joining the alliance and the forsaken joining the horde was done to make the factions neat and even split between two factions. The forsaken joining the horde makes no sense lore wise though, their goals are so wayward. The night elves actually joining the alliance in tenuous, but it does make sense that the night elves would seek to ally or would be at least friendly to the alliance considering their overlapping and non conflicting goals. The blood elves joining the horde is clearly the most egregious example of faction alignment, the blood elves would never have joined a faction with the orcs or the trolls, two races they have historically fought. They would join the alliance or remain friendly to the alliance. Them choosing the horde was to give the horde a pretty race, full stop. The whole Garithos episode would have been discounted, Garithos was a warlord in a near post apocalyptic scenario, not a representative of the alliance by any measure.

@TheDanNation Жыл бұрын

As I replied to another community member, I feel there's a much better basis and justification for the Forsaken joining the Horde, and with Thrall/Cairn's distrust of them adding context. As for Garithos, while you're right that he wasn't a major player, he did represent some form of Lordaeron authority at the time, which shouldn't be discounted considering the situation at the time during the NE/BE campaigns of WC3.

@spyfire242 9 ай бұрын

If you consider the state of Lordaeron after the 3rd war then Blood Elves joining the horde makes a lot more sense. The alliance's total failure is combatting the undead scourge, the near extinction of their race, the xenophobic scarlet crusade in the region. The Blood Elves closest and only potential ally within that corner of Azeroth would be the Forsaken. Their feud with trolls is also most specifically with the forest Amani and not the Darkspear. Orcs are another story but with Sylvanas acting as a bridge the Blood elves joining the horde is not as farfetched imo as Night elves joining the Alliance.

@TheDanNation 9 ай бұрын

@@spyfire242 I appreciate the thoughts, I don't agree with your premise as the Blood Elves found stellar allies in the Night Elves, and I doubt they would forgive and forget the Forsaken for what they did when they were still part of the Scourge or the Orcs from their actions during Warcraft 2, but I respect your interperetation.

@spyfire242 9 ай бұрын

@@TheDanNation Its hard to say because the group of Blood elves that were aided by Tyrande and Malfurion were the group led by Kael'thas which later joined forces with Illidan, how many of those stayed on Azeroth to later join the horde? In any case I see it as a move of desperation more than anything and that the real problem is as I outlined in a separate comment that once a race joins the horde or alliance they never leave even if it makes sense for them to do so. Its like a sitcom where no matter what happens everything has to return to the status-quo by the end.

@sergeanttentacles1359 9 ай бұрын

@@spyfire242 The blood elves themselves are extremely xenophobic, hence why they isolated themselves from the alliance after the second war and had their runegate system set up. They would be disgusted by the forsaken, and many of the forsaken would have been part of the army which slaughtered their people. The alliance failing or being xenophobic may have deterred the blood elves from joining the alliance, but the blood elves not only didn’t join the alliance but actively joined the faction belligerent to the alliance. They effectively declared war on the alliance for little to no reason. The night elves had a clear and obvious reason to join a faction belligerent to the horde. The horde was encroaching upon their territory. The alliance served the interests of the night elves because of convenience and the implacable differences between the night elves and the horde. The blood elves had no clear and obvious implacable differences with the alliance, so they would never have joined a faction warring against them.

@renaultellis6188 Жыл бұрын

If Theramore was the one that lead the new Alliance, then it would've made more sense for the Kaldorei to join in. Kalimdor would've been the sole continent playable in Vanilla, and the Eastern Kingdoms could've been the site of the first expansion, not Outland

@TheDanNation Жыл бұрын

This idea is sending my brain in all kinds of different directions, and while I'd be worried that the Alliance would struggle with representation, this would also open up SO MANY possibilities. I really love how much of a sidewinder this idea felt like, please continue to contribute your thoughts as this series continues!