Well, GOD MADE THEM THAT WAY, with full future knowledge that His Design would lead to those angels failure. I do not see how any angel, person, or creature, is accountable since their whole life, existence, energies, DNA, and design is Fully from God, & God alone, including Lucifer. If any angel operates against God, it is because God made them that way. We tiny humans can make Robots that are unable to do 'wrong' or 'sin' because they are machines following program directly. Either God is Supreme, or our stories are inaccurate. I believe God IS supreme, & made the Cosmos & all in it according to His Plan. God KNOWS the future before it happens. If he didn't allow / permit their actions by His Design, he could simply Change their design. We Tiny humans do that with our tools & things. God likewise can change His creation as He pleases.

Gladly!

Can you explain me why?

​@@RicardoGarcia-ib8ro it's human nature to be curious in order to study for understanding (to imitate, avoid, develop, relate or create). its also a very interesting topic that's intellectually stimulating and engaging. And there's always the desire to know the hidden or forbidden. many reasons, either good or bad. An important thing I remember when studying or inquiring about anything is, "will me knowing the answer make me a better person or get me to heaven?" if not, then it's not worth knowing, a waste of time/effort

@@RicardoGarcia-ib8ro I think it is because this kind of creature is an alien being; and mankind is very fascinated by the idea of alien beings; be they benevolent or malevolent- humans are fascinated by that idea... and *this* kind is as alien as it gets compared to us: think of it: matter itself is alien to them.

That is because the silmarillion and by extension the ainur therein are inspired by Catholicism lol

Tolkien is catholic.

Yep. Tolkien was a Catholic as well as a scholar of legends and myths, so you see these things reflected in his work

Cheers!

Happy to do it! Thanks for the encouragement!

We're so glad to hear it! May the Lord bless you!

Our pleasure!

We're delighted to hear it! Thanks for being a subscriber!

God bless you too!

You're welcome! Thanks so much for watching and taking the time to comment. God bless.

Thanks Katie!

Cheers!

Those are the Persons of the Trinity. God (the Father) knows the idea of Himself (the Son) in virtue of His act of knowing (the Spirit).

They hate us and want we to be destroyed also

🇷🇺☦️🤝✝️Dear brother, your presupposition is wrong: Angels are like animal-like in their behavior and act instinctively with passions, and not conscious persons with transcendent knowledge as humans are. Angels don't have absolute free will as humans do. Why? Because only Man was endowed by the Father with the spark of the divine essence injected into his soul by the Holy Spirit of God in the breath of life, and that's exactly what gives us PERSONHOOD, and that what being in the image and likeness of God means. While Angels are like animals in the sense that they aren't persons, only possess a nature, therefore their knowledge and actions are instinctive, not transcendent nor expands, so they behave like innocent children in this sense, that they don't know right from wrong, hence can err, or be deceived by Satan (who also erred at first), in the case of the Nephiles. They can choose like animals do, but not freely and consciously like man. Therefore, Angels have no option to repent and correct their dids, so once they choose 1 thing it paints them as such forever. Now, despite Satan and his Nephiles having rebelled against God, nevertheless, they are still under His command, and in fact, Satan is the Father's servant as His Adversary, in order to test Man's faith, and He uses him for those tasks, and allows him to test man whenever He wills it, at the right moment which He alone chooses, and that is the reason why God the Father gave him the authority over the material world until salvation. The question is how could Angels choose evil if they don't have the knowledge of Good & Evil?? Well, the answer: they can err, so I don't understand where did Aquinas get this assumption that they cannot err through passions (of course not passions of the flesh)? Also God's Angels DO have bodies - subtle bodies, as taught to us by our Church fathers, which are made out of light, and their forms, depending on their species/rank is a hybrid between human & animal ones, as taught to us by the holy Tertullianus, so the beloved Aquinas was incorrect on that issue as well. I hope that answers all your questions, Roman Catholic bro, and if you have more I would be glad to help. God bless🙏❤️

A spiritual soul has a Perfect knowledge since it has no body in it( matter). On the other hand a body where a soul resides is onlying aquiring knowledge through your senses that would pass into your brain. So an angle is more perfect being than a human being.

​​@@ECONOMICOUTLOOKWrong. Read the holy Tertullianus, who taught us that the soul is invisible (like air) and immortal, yet it is CORPOREAL and functions as the prime organ of the body, the manager, the core, our blueprint/form, whereas our life spirit is it's operation given by the Holy Spirit, and it's other operation is the mind/intellect given by Christ the logos of the Creator - the Father Almighty

Patric, that's an excellent question. St. Thomas begins to entertain it in Summa Theologiae Ia Q. 114 (aquinas101.thomisticinstitute.org/st-ia-q-114#FPQ114OUTP1) . . . let us know if you have follow up questions!

@@ThomisticInstitute I have read Q 114 but I don t see how it answers the question of demons not growing in knowledge if they predict the future. St Thomas merely says that they can't do real miracles. Incidentally I don't understand your citations of STh. You seem to cite "Ia" when the question is in Prima Pars. I thought "Ia" meant Prima Secundae Partis. What then is your citation of Prima Secundae Partis?

@@williamjerome5836 when thomists speak of Angels being created with all the knowledge they will ever have they are really speaking of all of the intelligible species that we use to understand things. We learn to understand the essence or nature of a dog through the senses. Angels are 'born' with the form of a dog inbuilt as it were. Thst is separate however from the contingent acts that a dog may do. An angel may not know whether a specific dog will growl or fart in the next five minutes with certainty. Though regardless of whether the dog growls or farts, in virtue of having a complete penetrating grasp of the nature of dog, though know every possible action that a dog may perform. Future contingent actions do not add new ideas to concepts to an angel. In fact, it follows from Aquinas account of angelic epistemology that an angel can only know what is happening in the world by using the intelligible species or forms it has been given by God. It cannot learn new species from anywhere else as it has no senses. It is in that sense that its knowledge does not grow

@@callums6570 Who do you think was wiser? Lucifer or Solomon? How does Solomon's wisdom compare with angels?

The devil is the prince or leader of the demons. As concerns the relations between angelic creatures and man, St. Thomas wrote a good deal on it. Here's an question on the influence of the angels (aquinas101.thomisticinstitute.org/st-ia-q-111#FPQ111OUTP1) and a question on the assaults of the demons (aquinas101.thomisticinstitute.org/st-ia-q-114#FPQ114OUTP1). St. Thomas also entertains the question in the treatise on sin (aquinas101.thomisticinstitute.org/st-iaiiae-q-80#FSQ80OUTP1).

@@ThomisticInstitute thanks!

@@unusedName1 Of course!

Excellent question! St. Thomas argues that God furnishes them with the knowledge they need (in the orders of both nature and grace) for their twofold vocation of the worship of God and the custody of man. So, in short, they know what God gives them to know, and that would would seem to include current events as they impinge upon their ministrations. St. Thomas also describes how one angel can illumine the intellect of another, so there is an additional source of knowledge. You can read about that here (aquinas101.thomisticinstitute.org/st-ia-q-107#FPQ107OUTP1). So, just because they don't have an intrinsic potency to further knowledge, doesn't mean that they can't "receive" knowledge from God or other angels.

@@ThomisticInstitute Sorry I don't understand how this relates the the power of demons to predict the future as shown when fortune tellers correctly predict future events ,e.g., when Saul consults the witch of Edore to reach Samuel and a correct future prediction was made. It is a serious sin to consult fortune tellers because although most are frauds some have connections to diabolic powers who can predict the future. But if this is so, then demons grow in knowledge. Or have i got this wrong?

​@@williamjerome5836Wrong bro, your assumption is totally false and not in line with scripture. 1. The witch was a liar and deceiver as all witches and fortune tellers are and it wasn't Samuel, it was Satan or one of his evil spirits of the Nephiles that deceived Saul! 2. Demons don't know the future and all Angels have a fixed knowledge in the fixed portion willed to them by God

Friend, it is okay to say God

The reason why men can't sin in heaven is because men will have the beatific vision, which is the contemplation of God's own essence. The angels, when created, didn't had the beatific vision yet, since it is only reserved for those fitted/elected/saved.

@@matheussolon2355ohhhhhhh okay that makes sense that angels had a moment of trial!!

No, they don't. Very good question. Only humans have free will.

St. Thomas teaches that all angels are created at the dawn of the universe. God is not currently creating more and more new angels.

@@ThomisticInstitute Thank you again.

Same question I have

Relying too much on your human brain understanding, rather than faith But if you want answers look at Saint Mary Agreda's book on The Mystical City of God I believe this was answered there :)

I assumed he recently engaged in, according to Terry Pratchet, "Philosophy"

Sir, you need to go back to the drawing board.

​@@dragomirzarev9155If you don't have anything of substance to contribute to the brother, just don't comment with those insulting secularist remarks!

🇷🇺☦️🤝✝️Dear brother, yes, as taught to us by the holy Tertullianus, Satan was a Cherub (the Fallen ones were Seraphs btw), so Aquinas is correct. God's Angels don't have absolute free will as humans do. Why? Because only Man was endowed by the Father with the spark of the divine essence injected into his soul by the Holy Spirit of God in the breath of life, and that's exactly what gives us PERSONHOOD, and that what being in the image and likeness of God means. While Angels are like animals in the sense that they aren't persons, only possess a nature, therefore their knowledge and actions are instinctive, not transcendent nor expands, so they behave like innocent children in this sense, that they don't know right from wrong, hence can err, or be deceived by Satan (who also erred at first), in the case of the Nephiles. They can choose like animals do, but not freely and consciously like man. Therefore, Angels have no option to repent and correct their dids, so once they choose 1 thing it paints them as such forever. Now, despite Satan and his Nephiles having rebelled against God, nevertheless, they are still under His command, and in fact, Satan is the Father's servant as His Adversary, in order to test Man's faith, and He uses him for those tasks, and allows him to test man whenever He wills it, at the right moment which He alone chooses, and that is the reason why God the Father gave him the authority over the material world until salvation. The question is how could Angels choose evil if they don't have the knowledge of Good & Evil?? Well, the answer: they can err, so I don't understand where did Aquinas get this assumption that they cannot err through passions (of course not passions of the flesh)? Also God's Angels DO have bodies - subtle bodies, as taught to us by our Church fathers, which are made out of light, and their forms, depending on their species/rank is a hybrid between human & animal ones, as taught to us by the holy Tertullianus, so the beloved Aquinas was incorrect on that issue as well. God bless🙏❤️

They are indeed!

@@ThomisticInstitute That is certainly a revelation for me. I've never thought of them as having 'free will'.

​@josephmillraney1061 you asked "created with"

You are totally wrong, sorry.

🇷🇺☦️🤝✝️Dear brother, first off, your presupposition is wrong: it has nothing to do with the Christ here: 1. Satan rebelled because of his passions of jealousy and pride towards Adam who in his eyes given his 1st place by God. 2. The fallen Angels were deceived by Satan, who seduced them with the daughters of Man. 3. Man is only lower than Angels by rank, meaning he doesn't serve God in His heavenly Kingdom close to him, and is limited by a lower kind of body than that of Angels, but other than that, man is superior to the Angels, and that is 1st cause of Satan's jealousy and rebellion. Angels don't have absolute free will as humans do. Why? Because only Man was endowed by the Father with the spark of the divine essence injected into his soul by the Holy Spirit of God in the breath of life, and that's exactly what gives us PERSONHOOD, and that what being in the image and likeness of God means. While Angels are like animals in the sense that they aren't persons, only possess a nature, therefore their knowledge and actions are instinctive, not transcendent nor expands, so they behave like innocent children in this sense, that they don't know right from wrong, hence can err, or be deceived by Satan (who also erred at first), in the case of the Nephiles. They can choose like animals do, but not freely and consciously like man. Therefore, Angels have no option to repent and correct their dids, so once they choose 1 thing it paints them as such forever. Now, despite Satan and his Nephiles having rebelled against God, nevertheless, they are still under His command, and in fact, Satan is the Father's servant as His Adversary, in order to test Man's faith, and He uses him for those tasks, and allows him to test man whenever He wills it, at the right moment which He alone chooses, and that is the reason why God the Father gave him the authority over the material world until salvation. The question is how could Angels choose evil if they don't have the knowledge of Good & Evil?? Well, the answer: they can err, so I don't understand where did Aquinas get this assumption that they cannot err through passions (of course not passions of the flesh)? Also God's Angels DO have bodies - subtle bodies, as taught to us by our Church fathers, which are made out of light, and their forms, depending on their species/rank is a hybrid between human & animal ones, as taught to us by the holy Tertullianus, so the beloved Aquinas was incorrect on that issue as well. I hope that answers all your questions, Roman Catholic bro, and if you have more I would be glad to help. God bless🙏❤️

The idea here is that in order to love God as God wills, it takes grace. Think here specifically about the grace of charity, by which man loves God with God's own love. St. Thomas speculates that the angels may have balked at the idea of loving God with God's own love, choosing instead to love him with a love proper to their own nature. In effect, it is a rejection of the gratuity of the supernatural order. Ultimately, there is only one way to have God: as a gift. Perhaps, St. Thomas reasons, the fallen angels couldn't abide the thought.

Chime back in if that's still not clear.

The fallen angels was and is about rebellion, not love. THE CREATOR BLESS

@@ThomisticInstitute I don't understand one thing - isn't it proper to angels (by their nature) to love God with God's own love? It seems to me that to suggest otherwise would mean that angels should strive for something which is not in their nature, but isn't nature "that which a being should strive for"? Or did You mean something else by "nature"?

@@BRXify Aleksa, it is in accord with the angelic nature to love God with God's own love, but it remains supernatural. That is to say, there is nothing within the angels proper resources (when left to itself), which equips it for this act, although when it is present it seems to be more natural to the angel than nature itself. The angels have what later Thomists called an obediential potency to the life of grace, but it is still something added (albeit, eminently suited to) their nature. So, when we say that they tried to love God with a love proper to their own nature, this entails a rejection of the grace that God gave them upon creation and a definitive turn to themselves and from God.

What??? What is that gibberish?? Speak clearly!🤦

You have a looot to learn. Despite Satan and the Fallen Angels having sinned, God still had mercy on them and gave them authority over the material realm. Angels don't have absolute free will as humans do. Why? Because only Man was endowed by the Father with the spark of the divine essence injected into his soul by the Holy Spirit of God in the breath of life, and that's exactly what gives us PERSONHOOD, and that what being in the image and likeness of God means. While Angels are like animals in the sense that they aren't persons, only possess a nature, therefore their knowledge and actions are instinctive, not transcendent nor expands, so they behave like innocent children in this sense, that they don't know right from wrong, hence can err, or be deceived by Satan (who also erred at first), in the case of the Nephiles. They can choose like animals do, but not freely and consciously like man. Therefore, Angels have no option to repent and correct their dids, so once they choose 1 thing it paints them as such forever. Now, despite Satan and his Nephiles having rebelled against God, nevertheless, they are still under His command, and in fact, Satan is the Father's servant as His Adversary, in order to test Man's faith, and He uses him for those tasks, and allows him to test man whenever He wills it, at the right moment which He alone chooses, and that is the reason why God the Father gave him the authority over the material world until salvation. The question is how could Angels choose evil if they don't have the knowledge of Good & Evil?? Well, the answer: they can err, so I don't understand where did Aquinas get this assumption that they cannot err through passions (of course not passions of the flesh)? Also God's Angels DO have bodies - subtle bodies, as taught to us by our Church fathers, which are made out of light, and their forms, depending on their species/rank is a hybrid between human & animal ones, as taught to us by the holy Tertullianus, so the beloved Aquinas was incorrect on that issue as well. I hope that answers all your questions, Roman Catholic bro, and if you have more I would be glad to help. God bless🙏❤️

Bob, we'd love to engage on the question. What exactly is the nature of your objection?

@@ThomisticInstitute My point is this: I don't think that die existence and history of angels can be known by supernatural revelation because the only content of supernatural revelation is God's self-communication to His creature in Jesus Christ. Our faith has a utterly simple structure, the basic mystery is our communion with God. All articles unfold this mystery. Trinity: We are taken up into the eternal love between the Father and the Son; Incarnation: The Son assumes a human nature in order to tell us the "Word of God" etc. So we cannot believe in a supernatural sense in the existence of created things or states of affairs. Whether there are angels or not has to be decided by natural reason. But here is a danger of unfruitful speculation or "science-fiction-theology". I don't think that this view is against the tradition if one conceives of tradition the passing on of the word of God (this is also the essence of the Church).

@@Bob-cn5or Okay, I see better now. I think that our disagreement is principally a hermeneutical point. We agree that the Trinity and the Incarnation are the central teachings of the Christian faith and that everything else hinges upon this. St. Thomas argues for this point in the treatise on faith as a reading of Hebrews 11:6. Thus, in the analogy of faith, we need to assert the importance of these central doctrines and explain how other doctrines issue from them and are ordered back to them. It seems that we differ on the revelatory content of Scripture though. Catholic theology has typically argued for a thicker understanding than you enunciate, namely that Scripture pronounces not only upon God, but on all things in light of God, and that by faith we have the capacity to receive and interpret this revelation. Our belief in angels represents a dimension of this aspect of revelation. Thanks for raising the question and helping to tease this out further.

@@ThomisticInstitute Thanks for your response! I would say that Scripture is only "Holy Scripture" insofar it can be understood as the "Word of God" faced with God's utter transcendence. And here we need the trinitarian and christological dogmas as a kind of clef in order to understand Scripture in this way. Vat. I is very clear that there is a difference between objects of natural reason and objects of faith. The important question, then, is: What are possible objects of faith? I would argue: The whole created world (and the fact that is created in the sense of totally dependent on God) is object of reason, and therefore not object of faith. The only object of faith is God's self-communication to His creature because only this we cannot know even in principle by natural reason. Catholic theology is/was typically not very aware of the importance of this question, or so it seems to me.

@@Bob-cn5or St. Thomas weighs in on the question in a couple of places in Ia Q. 1. You might enjoy reading a. 3 (aquinas101.thomisticinstitute.org/st-ia-q-1#FPQ1A3THEP1) and a. 7 (aquinas101.thomisticinstitute.org/st-ia-q-1#FPQ1A7THEP1).

🇷🇺☦️🤝☪️🇵🇸Dear Muslim brother, I will clarify everything for you. First off, your assumption is wrong - sin doesn't only infect material bodies, but also subtle bodies. Angels are not incorporeal as God alone is. We Christians also believe they were made out of light/fire, but we believe ALL Angels were, and the Jinn is just another species of Angel, which we call Seraph (but Satan was a different kind - the high ranked Cherub, which fits with your Islamic view as well) Angels don't have absolute free will as humans do. Why? Because only Man was endowed by the Father with the spark of the divine essence injected into his soul by the Holy Spirit of God in the breath of life, and that's exactly what gives us PERSONHOOD, and that what being in the image and likeness of God means. While Angels are like animals in the sense that they aren't persons, only possess a nature, therefore their knowledge and actions are instinctive, not transcendent nor expands, so they behave like innocent children in this sense (which also fits with Islamic teachings - you definitely got it right and many Christians don't know that), that they don't know right from wrong, hence can err, or be deceived by Satan (who also erred at first), in the case of the Nephiles. They can choose like animals do, but not freely and consciously like man. Therefore, Angels have no option to repent and correct their dids, so once they choose 1 thing it paints them as such forever. Now, despite Satan and his Nephiles having rebelled against God, nevertheless, they are still under His command, and in fact, Satan is the Father's servant as His Adversary, in order to test Man's faith, and He uses him for those tasks, and allows him to test man whenever He wills it, at the right moment which He alone chooses, and that is the reason why God the Father gave him the authority over the material world until salvation. The question is how could Angels choose evil if they don't have the knowledge of Good & Evil?? Well, the answer: they can err, so I don't understand where did Aquinas get this assumption that they cannot err through passions (of course not passions of the flesh)? Also God's Angels DO have bodies - subtle bodies, as taught to us by our Church fathers, which are made out of light, and their forms, depending on their species/rank is a hybrid between human & animal ones, as taught to us by the holy Tertullianus, so the beloved Aquinas was incorrect on that issue as well. I hope that answers all your questions, Roman Catholic bro, and if you have more I would be glad to help. God bless🙏❤️

Maybe in some respects, but it is important to remember that angels are created "to the image of God," ad imaginem dei, like humans. So they have a source and a destiny in God which cannot be reproduced.

The only myth around here is your patнetic life, faceless b0t😂😂😂

Yes, your pathetic life is definitely nonsense, faceless b0t😂😂