My website is based on vue + laravel

Typed out a comment, but then deleted it cause you just said it so much better. Juniors, i can vouch for this ^^^

I'm a happy employee who works with Vue.

@@ojvribeiro which version of vue do you use?

@@kennethisaac233 Vue 3 with :)

I'd like to ask without watching 4000 yt videos that how vue escapes from re rendering? I'm really pissed with react's re rendering, it's confusing and always breaks my code.

@@amans6504 Not sure personally. Hope @Damian Perez can chime in when they're around!

@@amans6504 it's not essentially something you should be concerned with since there's a diff algorithm behind the curtains which does all the "magic" by itself unlike React which is simply, a hot mess. That way you have more time to develop the actual application rather than beating your head against the wall

Unpopular oppinion: Angular code is much more organized in the sense of classes and separation of concerns. I kinda like that. I know you can organize Vue projects as well, but when I learned it it mostly ended in 500 lines of spaghetti code.

Hmmm my experience of 2+ years with Vue has been anything but what you described. Never fought so much with a javascript tool before except maybe React's useEffect hook than when using Vue. State management, refs, code organization at large scales, all fall flat for me. Then there's dealing with the ever increasingly complicated api including watchers (immediate & deep), inconsistent return values with refs, and now with Vue 3 there's even more nonsense piled on top. Hard pass on using Vue, seen it fail way too many times, watched as many JavaScript developers spend more time debugging issues with the tool than writing business logic (even seasoned developers with more Vue experience than I), and watching as the costs of using it are piling up where I work (and we have people that LOVE Vue and are devoted to doing their best with it). For the record, I liked Vue a lot when I started with it, but when real world enterprise requirements and working across teams came into the picture I've seen it just fail to live up to the hype time and time again.

Especially when you add Angular Material and Angular Flex to it, there's nothing out there that can compete.

I will keep this comment in mind and come back when I feel the same🙏🏻

ok))) I will continue with sleepless nights also. I believe later on I will say exactly the same. I want to believe ... I really want to believe...

​@@slavatischukany update

​@@marijam.6172any update

I know exactly what you mean 😞 I am inclined to agree with you, the syntax should be quite familiar. It just happens when you're learning JSX, you're probably also learning components, CSS in JS and one-way data binding in React. It definitely takes a mental shift. Not to mention, you'll need a transpiler (maybe for the first time)

Thank you Shemmy! That is so exciting!

Im a product marketer at a fintech. We are migrating our site from php to vue. Im learning react currently and was wondering why they choses vue, sounds like this is it

RIP nigga jim

I'm learning angular now. You can plug me if there are available opportunities. Thank you.

Could not have said it better myself!

Currently a trainee at a company as react developer, I don't have prior experience with react before joining the company but I can say for sure that either React is messy or just that my company doesn't know how to organise code or files or whatever. Man is it really necessary to jump from 4 to 5 files before performing a task. Sometimes I just question that if I am the one who is stupid, which I already am because of my current lack of knowledge but still..

I appreciate your vue on this.

@@bookercodes good one 😂

All day vue

I think you're right, Angular is more favourable in enterprise companies. Still, every enterprise starts somewhere! And React and Vue seem more favourable in start-ups.

@@bookercodes because of the learning curve

What brain-dead statements: "Angular is a decade ahead . . .". You are only a "serious business" if you use Angular. You just gave away the fact that you are clueless.

Hi Debjit! That sounds brill!

Why Laravel, and not Node.js?

@@karenmelikyan377 Just for ORM and PHP

@@karenmelikyan377 And I never used nodejs to build an api. May be next year I will try that.

@@karenmelikyan377 because he is PHP and React (two shit in one)

Valid points. First of all, I am not an angular developer but someone who likes angular and is interested in it and your comment had some valid points and I wanted to reply with my ideas about angular and react. 1. Yes, working with react makes you better at vanilla js, but I think that many young/jr developers can make simple and stupid mistakes while working in react if you don't know js very well, like when to use .map and when .forEach and what they do under the hood. Angular has built-in directives and pipes that helps you with that like you mentioned *ngFor *ngIf *ngSwitch which are statements in programming and everyone knows them. 2. I dont think React is suitable for enterprise projects, while Angular is. In React you are required to make decisions that maybe even you don't know which is better, because in react you can do one thing in many ways and each developer "has his own ways" of doing things, and in a big project you will find many patterns, many ways of implementing a feature which is not good for big teams and when a new developer comes in, he needs time to understand whats happening. Angular is opinionated, and tells you how things should be done, which imo is good for big teams and big projects because even new developers to the team will know what is going on. 3. Angular comes with a lot of built-in tools, like routing,httpclient,dependecy injection,reactive forms, cli, animations, directives, pipes and maybe more that I don't know. In React you have many libraries for forms,routing,fetching etc. In one way its good to have such community with tons of libraries but also enterprises don't want to relay on third party libraries and maintainers. In REact you have redux,xstate,zustand for state management while in Angular pretty much one option ngrx. 4 & 5. React definitely has more libraries than angular for almost everything, and has a massive community, but also has new developers who immediately jump into react without properly learning js/ts. 8. Angular can sometimes be an overkill because has a lot of tools and a lot of things to learn, but once you learn then you will not have problems with it. 9. I also like React Native, which in Angular world you have something like Ionic. But at the end of the day, the better option is with native code like Swift and Kotlin for better user experience and performace. These are my opinions and sorry for bad english. I also do like React and there are so many good engineers using React, but I don't like React developers who know nothing about Angular and they just heard that is bad and complex or whatever and say that none should learn it. Again, I think like this and I could be wrong and I'm not a Angular developer but someone who likes coding in it and appreciate the tools it offers you.

@@albinhalitaj3326 Hi! Thank you for your great answer. I, as well, am interested in angular. However, you know how it is... you have to pick something to get excellent at, and doing a bit of everything is not really too profitable (although, it is fun). That's why I wanted to find out more about this topic. You definitely make some valid points. 1. This never crossed my mind. I come from years of vanilla JS experience, so seeing .map in react was a breath of fresh air for me, as opposed to v-for or *ngFor in Vue / Angular. However, I do understand that a lot of devs who are learning react do not really have the experience of using .map or .reduce on a daily basis. So a very valid point. 2. I don't fully agree on this point, but I respect your point of view. I think adoption of TS and frameworks like Next.js brought react quite close to enterprise projects. And, as with every technology, you can have shitty or good code no matter what the stack is, so although angular has the advantage of naming conventions and some patterns, it's far from being a guarantee of quality. 3. True. Analysis paralysis. Too much choice can lead to decision fatigue. The only point I would respectfully disagree with is your first sentence. E.g. http client - I actually like using fetch (native to vanilla JS) in react. Dependency injection is something I am a HUGE fan of. However, it is achieved in react with hooks (custom hooks & context in react achieve same result as services in angular). Regarding routing I already talked about that. And regarding other things (e.g. form validation, animations), I am one of those devs that really enjoys writing those things from scratch (with JS and pure CSS). But yea... I guess most people would use a dependency for them, so... it is beneficial if those common things are always the same. However, using angular http client over fetch, for simple API calls, still rubs me the wrong way. 4. & 5. That is the way it is. Good for them, I hope they learn as much as possible fast. But yes, my recommendation to anyone would be to spend 1-2 years with vanilla JS before touching ANY framework / library. After that learning any tool is quite intuitive. However, you could also argue that for inexperienced JS devs it could potentially be more "dangerous" to start with angular - as it teaches them things that are not usable outside angular. Thanks for the great discussion! :)

But you have to be in Dubai right?

So go with angular no competition at all

@@thecoolnewsguy Angular is still a sure bet, probably get paid more even

@@nyambe yeah that's a big advantage since you won't have to fight with other React developers. I also love Angular I find it so much organized and there's (almost) no need to worry about competition with other Angular developers.

@@thecoolnewsguy I started with angularJS loved it. Angular 2 was a push back. Typescript was not as popular as it is now and that did not help. I use Vue because it fits how I think. love it

student projects like Facebook, Instagram, Bloomberg, Discord, ....

​@@mohammadalijafarzadeh3904 yeah lol

How do you find vue jobs?

X = progress, Y = effort ...that's how I've always understood it - i.e. a steep curve means difficult to learn

@@spezzers88 Well, that's wrong :-). Look it up. A "steep learning curve" is a misnomer. And your axes don't really make sense. Y is a function of an X variable, so you are saying you deploy progress to get effort?

@@sardendibs You are right about the maths. I guess my point is that flipping the axis makes it a more relatable and effective communication device. Perhaps that’s why it became a “misnomer“, because it speaks to popular logic more than mathematic convention; the greatest struggle is on the steepest climb.

@@spezzers88 Yes, agree. That's the reason. It's more visual to see something "steep" in front of you. But I still can't bring myself to say it (-:, and I like the proper use, i.a. a "flat learning curve", as in it takes ages to learn. Only small returns on invested time. Like walking through a flat desert.

Angular is also great for a job In my city we have a surplus of React devs but no Angular devs so if you learn Angular you have nearly no competition

​@@flashback4588 and hence easy to get a job with it

@@flashback4588 what city? I'll soon start applying

Seeing so much love for Svelte! Do you think it's a good first framework for new developers? In my humble opinion, since the other technologies are more mature, beginners are more likely to find tools, tutorials, jobs, and help when they need it.

Good luck working on that crap library!

Angular will get you job faster with bigger check. Don’t look at the number of jobs, look at competition

@@104kinoman Okk...I'll remember that.

@@bobarndt862 it's quite pleasurable

​@@ElektrykFlaaj no jsx syntax is just confusing

Love me some shapes!

Im thinking of going svelte, if i want to do freelance/junior dev as soon as possible should I go for react/vue? I am currently at my first year of college.

Go for React

@@HariKrishna-mi6is Why is that, please??

happy using svelte, simplest among all XD

Yesh that is true

I like that comparison!

That is a great point. If I could go back and re-record the video, I would mention that for sure!

Lol... That's completely false Ivy Renderer is a breaking change

@@uziboozy4540 But you don't need to change anything from your code.

@@giocaonguyen Angular 14 is a breaking change and stable in v15 standalone: true

vanilla js is the most important part. these are just tool in different flavours. you get hired because you know javascript not because you know a framework.

You are absolutely right. Sometimes I wish I could read the comments before I record a video hehe. This is a point I would be keen to reiterate!

No

Vue is a progressive framework.

Yeah, I tried hard not to mention terms like lib, framework, or progressive framework. Instead , I tried to present these tools in practical terms 😀

@@PabloEzequielLeone True!

@@PabloEzequielLeone yeah, that's true.

@@PabloEzequielLeone shed more light on this please

So much love for Svelte!

I think you nailed it!

And also the mos numbers of competitors which is annoying. With angular, no need to worry about competition because everyone is misleadingly learning React