Endlessly fascinating! Just when you think you know it all, you find out there is so much more to learn ☺️

I think so.

There's also some intriguing evidence to suggest that Henry held Mary in high regard, even after their affair ended. Personally intervening to make sure she got a pension, providing her with money, AND fostering her child. Moreover, Anne had to know there was at least the possibility that Henry Carey was Henry's child. Pretty interesting stuff

@@Tabroxfcc it's more likely that Henry slept with Mary before her marriage and then helped arrange the match with Carey. She even got married in a chapel royal with the king in attendance. That was how it had worked with Bessie Blount. I personally think that Mary was his mistress when Bessie was pregnant. I just can't see the evidence for Henry and Mary being involved in 1525. Henry was a generous man and she wasn't just someone she'd been involved with, she was his sweetheart's sister.

It speaks more to him being Henry's child and Anne being oblogated to support him to not cause her future trouble .

Alison Weir makes a good point that Catherine Carey looks a lot like Henry VIII and her daughter Lettice who married Robert Dudley looks very like Elizabeth I if they were related twice over makes sense. Henry Carey not so much.

Yes!

@@anneboleynfiles This might sound like an odd question, but I was curious as to which star-signs you think Anne and Mary carried. It would be easier to narrow down if we knew the seasons they were born in, if not the exact years. But all we have to go on are the accounts of their personalities, and as you said here, accounts of Mary are much fewer and farther between. Following that, which of the signs do you think suit them best?

@@daniellemusella1594 That's a cool question and thought provoking

@@Shane-Flanagan I think it would be an interesting catalyst for another "what-if" Tudor-era -based novel.

@@daniellemusella1594 Anne always screamed Scorpio to me. Ambition, dominance, passion, Irascibility, jealousy. Scorpio also would match with Henry VIII, since scorpio and cancer are said to have an electrifying attraction for each other. It's also possible that Anne was born on St. Anne's day (26th of July) which would make her a Leo. As a typcial Leo she would be dominant and extremely proud but in general more peaceful and resting in herself than a scorpio.

yes i agree

There's just no mention of her seeing her parents, which is sad.

Was Anne Boleyn and Thomas Cromwell actually a Lutheran?

@@potatowofie4479 You couldn't call Anne a Lutheran/Protestant as it was far too early in the English Reformation to label people that. She was an evangelical Catholic interested in church reform and getting back to the authority of scripture. Cromwell was further along the path to Protestantism by his death.

Anne certainly loved her mother and vice versa. In a 1531 letter to her friend Lady Wingfield, Anne expressed adoration for her mother. Also while she awaited execution she worried about the effect it would have on her mother.

I am a descendant of both mary Careys son Henry and daughter Catherine Carey Knowles. 6 generations down they had descendants that married. I have been trying to untangle the many threads that I have to King Henry 8th court for sometime now with Jane Seymores sister Elizabeth Ughtred that married Gefrey Cromwell. Than uncles thomas and edward seymore. And Henry's uncle Aurthur Plantagenet, his mothers half brother, who is another of my direct ancestors. Kind of want to get accurate info vs history vs legend. Thanks for my rant!!!

Thank you! I'd love to find Mary's diary and know more about her relationship with the king and where she was at various points.

I think he was a generous man. He certainly made sure that Bessie Blount was well provided for too.

Pity he didn't show the same compassion to his wives (Catherine of Aragon, Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard), all of whom he once was very much in love with, the same compassion when he was done with them.

@@lililillililil4028 amen!

@@anneboleynfiles I don’t think it’d be so much generosity as potentially a mix of pity, obligation, and PR.

@@thelittleredhairedgirlfrom6527 oh, a lot of the time, yes.

That's the problem with history especially Tudor history. Also a lot of what we read is from one point view so can be bias. Sometimes I like to read historical fiction from Alison Weir and Elizabeth Chadwick to fill the gaps so long as it's not improbable fiction

Oh thank you!

No not full time anyway she would have been expected to stay at her estates to maintain rule and order over her tenants she would have gone for extended stays for Xmas and Anne's pregnancies etc but overall there wasn't much of a role at court for her I hope this helps

While Henry VIII was courting Anne, Elizabeth acted as chaperone and lived at York Place with her daughter, and George and Thomas had rooms there too. At other times, she would have divided her time between court and Hever.

Anne would have had a choice over who was serving her, yes, although there would have been girls she was expected to have because of their families. The Rochford title, when used for Mary here, was a courtesy title due to her father being Viscount Rochford and then her brother holding it.

@@anneboleynfiles Thankyou! That does rather suggest they weren't super-close; perhaps they were very different while still caring for each other? (Total speculation!) Having read your wonderful book on George tho, when I read the vid title, I thought, "No-one knows, but Anne & George were close!" I guess everyone's more interested in Mary, but if the question was about George there's so much more info.

No, I think you're right. A familial connection, memories of childhood, but two very different women who spent a lot of time apart.

Anne was actually IN LOVE when she got married.

@@camijaque2291 We really don't know how "in love" Anne really was, bc once you were in the King's sight, there wasn't anything you could really do to refuse his advances. Henry, imo,b was a deeply disturbed man and I think his narcissism over AB was more about possessing her. Mary was the one who kept her head and I love AB, I just think that we really don't know much about how SHE felt towards Henry.

@@TheTam0613 good point i have never thought of it that way

@@TheTam0613 Anne losing her head didn't mean she was stupid as that is likely to happen when you are married to a tyrant and have many enemies. If she bore a son, her future would've been secure. Mary marrying for love wasn't really smart as it distanced her from her family and she spent her later years in poverty and obscurity

@@camijaque2291 Yes I believe Anne loved Henry. She was heartbroken when he started taking other mistresses even though he promised not to

I think she was very well educated but perhaps didn't have the same ambition as her siblings and father, and perhaps that's why she wasn't chosen to go to Margaret of Austria's court. I find the letter to Cromwell really interesting because although she goes on about how she's chosen love over everything and that she'd rather beg than be like her sister, she is sending that letter to Cromwell to get him to intercede with her family to get them to help her. It makes me chuckle. She has defied her family, complains of their cruelty against her, but still wants their money!

​@@anneboleynfiles Yeah. Mary, still being the sister of the Queen of England and widow of Carey believed she was entitled to certain things and she still wanted them. I don't know if that makes her a hypocrite or a product of her time were women of high birth had access to money because of their family's status and connections.

Thank you!

Yes. She was.

Yes, that's right, she was the daughter of the 2nd Duke of Norfolk and sister of the 3rd Duke.

Her other brother was the father of Catherine Howard

I haven't seen her name in the lists of ladies serving Catherine while Anne was in France. Oh that "art historian" is so very odd. Every time someone points out an issue or inaccuracy, he blocks them and then changes his theory and makes use of their information. I mean why on earth would Anne Boleyn have a ducal crown in her arms?? I decided not to give him any attention at all, good or bad, as it all feeds him.

It's not too surprising we know so little about Mary. She wasn't royalty and didn't marry that well and had scandalous past. After 1536 the family was in disgrace. Mary became obscure. Anne and her father Thomas are who we know most about but there are a lot of gaps in their life stories too. We know so little about Elizabeth Howard Boleyn and not that much about George either. Many myths have built up around the Boleyns for centuries. We only know so much about Jane Parker Boleyn because of her involvement in Anne and George's trials and her later involvement with Catherine Howard and eventual downfall. A lot of information just wasn't documented such as birth dates especially if you weren't high born. Some correspondence could've once existed between Anne and Mary but may have become lost

@@Shane-Flanagan Hello Shane. You mention that there is not much known about George Boleyn. Actually, there is. If you go to Claire's Video Playlists, you can view 18 videos all about George. There is also the 366 page book co-written by Clare Cherry and Claire Ridgway titled 'George Boleyn. Tudor Poet, Courtier and Diplomat'. Most informative. Also, Claire has mentioned (in previous videos) that Jane Boleyn (George's wife) has been much maligned. Claire has said that from documents from the trial of Anne Boleyn (Jane's sister-in-law) that Jane was NEVER a witness against Anne and Never against her husband, George, either. It was 'other' ladies of the court who apparently brought the accusations against Anne and George, after being interrogated by Cromwell under the orders of Henry VIII who was already now interested in Jane Seymour, and wanted to be rid of Anne after her not giving him a son. Jane Boleyn even corresponded with George (and he with her) whilst he was in the Tower. Hardly acts of a couple who hated each other. These are not my views, but what Claire has indicated in her videos and books. As for Henry VIII having ever fathered any of Mary Boleyn's children. Claire has looked at when they were born and says it is impossible. The reason that Mary's son was made a 'Ward' of the court in her sister Anne's care, was to assist Mary when she became widowed. It also meant that he could receive an education and have a good future, which he did. In his aunt's reign (Elizabeth I) he served at court and did well, on his own merits. Mary Boleyn's first marriage was 'arranged' after her affair with the King, by the King (through her father). Her second marriage was one she chose 'for love', choosing a quieter life away from court (but was without permission). Claire has said that the reason there is no documentation known between sisters Anne and Mary is that it was 'lost' or 'destroyed'. ALL of Anne's possessions were taken by others (including the King) after her execution. All BUT her Book of Hours. Two copies held at Hever Castle. Much of her jewellery was taken by the King to give to Jane Seymour (and others). Bye for now. Lyndell 🇦🇺🦘

@@Lyndell-P I'm aware Jane is a much maligned figure. I think she gets a rather bad rep and I kinda feel sorry for her. She got very little support initially from Henry and the Boleyns after the executions but luckily got into the service of Jane Seymour. She was also a supporter of Catherine of Aragon and Mary. Like I said, so many myths have surrounded the Boleyns over the centuries that it's easy to believe some as the truth such as George was a bad husband and possibly gay. Also Cromwell would have made up any old evidence just to be rid of Anne who he felt threatened by. Once Anne had been executed, Henry tried to remove all traces of her. He didn't fully succeed as at Hampton Court Palace a small H & A engraving still exists to this day in the building work.

@@Lyndell-P Seeing how much you enjoy Claire's channel, are you aware of another similar KZfaq channel called Reading the Past. It is by an historian called Dr Kat. She has presented various videos discussing various historical people and events including those from the Tudor era.

@@Shane-FlanaganVERY SORRY, to take so long to get back to you Shane, but I had an appointment to attend. Have only just read what you sent me. Thank you Shane. That is very thoughtful of you. Yes, I have noticed Dr Kat's videos (and others) but I enjoy Claire's so much, and there is so much to view, that I really wouldn't have time to watch others, very often. ALTHOUGH, that said, if I'm after Historical Information (outside of the Tudor period) I do look elsewhere. I really do love the way Claire explains things to novices, like me. I am not an intellectual, and I do struggle to learn (always have) but I have always had an interest in History, Geography and Archaeology going back to early Egyptian times, Roman etc. I enjoy all History, but relate better to British history, for now. I first gained an interest in history from a young age as my grandmother (on my mother's side) lived to 103. She was born in 1889 on a dairy farm in rural Victoria, Australia on the outskirts of Melbourne Town (it being a large town back then, not a capital city of a State). When my grandmother was only 12 years of age, Australia became a country in its own right, no longer a British colony to send convicts or settlers to. So, my grandmother witnessed us become a Nation (although a part of the Commonwealth), so The Commonwealth of Australia. Our first Government was formed in Melbourne, Victoria, many decades before moving to its present site in Canberra, ACT (Australian Capital Territory) which is a small Territory in the State of New South Wales (NSW). My grandmother took her first flight in a plane in the 1970's, prefering to travel by train before then. She had once been told by her own father that "if we were meant to fly, God would have given us wings". However, in the late 1970s she decided to 'risk it'. LOL ... She thoroughly enjoyed the experience, but only once. She was very well her whole life and turned 100 in 1989, but she died in 1992 aged 103. No illness, just a 103 year old body that needed to rest. Despite her vast age, we mourned her. Until her late 90s, living indepentently, quite well and with all her faculties in tact. A remarkable woman to talk to. A living, talking history book. A fascinating lady. Sadly her 3 daughters (including my mother, her youngest) didn't take after their mother, longevity wise. All passing away Before they turned 80. Only 2 of them alive to see her turn 100, and at her death. My mother (her youngest daughter) died in 2000, only 8 years after her mother. So my grandmother, gave me that initial interest in history. I never looked upon her as 'old' though. Elderly, yes, but not old. Quite 'young at heart' and very intelligent and we enjoyed many happy chats together. I even lived with her in her own home, in my late teenage years for over 4 months. We had a ball. She also did live long enough to attend my wedding (over 40 years ago) and she met and knew many of her grandchildren, great grandchildren and great great grandchildren. Quite a legacy! Anyway, thank you again Shane for your thoughtful suggestion. Bye for now. from Lyndell 🇦🇺🦘

Seriously?????? That's really cool.

Mine too..

That's cool! I haven't found the Boleyns, but I've got the Tudors & Stewarts: I'm descended from an illegitimate son of James V, & ofc James V is Margaret Tudor's son.

That's awesome!

Mary has so many ancestors including Kate Middleton

Thank you! I wish Mary wasn't so shadowy, it's so frustrating!

Yeah, my younger sister is a bit scary too, lol

I do hope that they had chance to reconcile and that we just don't know about it.

Hmmm.... That's strange. It's at the bottom of the description and the playlist is also towards the end of the video.

In one sense, I'm glad Chapuys documented info on Anne as it supplies us with some insight into her life. Not many others did sadly. On the other hand it's a little irritating that it was Chapuys as he was so bias in his dislike for Anne. If only others wrote about her with a fairer outlook, we might know so much more about Anne

@@Shane-Flanagan I agree, 100%!!

Well I know Mary's daughter Catherine was active in the court and Catherine's daughter, Mary's granddaughter, Lettice(spelling????)ended up marrying Robert Dudley, Elizabeth's "great love". I don't believe Mary lived to Elizabeth's reign.

@@Husky_mom4 But surely as a child Elizabeth must have met her aunt, right?

Mary died in 1543 when Elizabeth was just 9 and there's no record of them even seeing each other. Elizabeth was in her own household away from court.

@@anneboleynfiles thanks Claire!!!!!! Love the videos. Been following this for over 10 years!

@@anneboleynfiles Oh wow! Thanks for answering! That’s so sad that they might never have met or spoken with each other :(

My sister and I have dated the same person (at different times, of course) at least twice. I suspect we have similar attractions, and we share many traits so naturally guys tend to like both of us--which I take as a huge compliment. I'm not sure how she feels about this situation; I find it acceptable because we never directly competed with each other. So the situation between and Mary really doesn't surprise me, though I do wish we had more information about it.

There's often plenty of envy between sisters, often for exactly the same reasons. A few years ago I was talking with my older sister and told her how I've always wished I looked more like her, and she told me how she always thought I was more beautiful than her. Surely Anne and Mary had that dynamic going on too.

Doubt it considering Mary was considered beautiful while Anne wasn't

Sorry, I can't control how YT do the advertising, I just allow them to advertise on my channel as I need some compensation for the work I do.

I hate the ads, but that's on YT rather than on Claire or any creator. I can't imagine anyone requesting or even giving permission for an ad to cut in mid-word, which I've seen a lot of since YT revised its ad policy to give themselves a larger cut. (insert fuming emojii here)

Claire is a well respected and loved historian and author. It's no one's fault if the birth dates of common or low born people weren't recorded. That was just the order of the day. All we can do is speculate.

No, by the law of the land, she was officially queen consort from 1533.

Katherine of Aragon didn't relinquish her claim to the title until her death, but it was the king's will that mattered more than hers.