So many other games I wish would have done that.

I miss rend man

Rend 😢I miss that game so much!

Lol Don't trust Airship sindicate too much

Look up Rends Last Hope

Yeah. I could hear the stress from the voice. Not too many people clearly knows it, but publishers take the bulk of the money, not the devs. Devs see like a % of it, but nowhere close to a big chunky-ass cut. I've seen an indie dev contract with a potential deal to be published by another company and I could only say "well shit". It wasn't pretty, but well, easy way or the hard way. The only logical conclusion for those players who want a refund is to sue the original publisher and have the other parties involved so as to determine legally who owes what % back to the refunders. Players screaming at Airship to refund them might as well write the demands on water. Shit happened, yes. And things are complicated. Go sue then.

I had not really heard about wayfinder, but just this dev trying to save it makes me want to at least do some research. If it is like Warframe, I'm down.

@@jmason0622 sometimes it's not even a slight %. most times you get a slightly better than the average salary (but not in the games industry) and that's it (unless you're a small indie dev). most of the times they don't actually see a cut. (but that's pretty normal for all jobs)

He said play the game so you go over the refund time. Lol

Word, they genuinely give a fuck and they have developed great games Darksiders Genesis, LOL RPG, Battle chasers. DE dropped the ball on this one, and they have to deal with the fallout. They don't deserve all this hate from players. I'm sure if we continue to support the game, they will release good content.

Rip Devilian, Warlords Awakening and Battleborn.

It's a maneuver that costs money so this is done out of love and hope that they can still sell the game, most MMOs just pull the plug

Switching a dead MMO to a single player is a brilliant move to make the game even more dead

@@Fenharelcamelater Read the newest comments. You are in the minority with thinking that way.

@@Fenharelcamelater lol a single player game is always gonna be less dead than a MMO with servers shut down

New CEO and restructuring does this TBF. Times change and all that

Sure, but only for mmo's that are at the end of their life time, not a game that launched recently... Gifting a free coffin to dead man's family is completely different from gifting a coffin to a new born.

Live services are basically dead on arrival these days. Good decision from the devs.

​@@aahzmandiaz2767yeah just look at suicide squad lmfaoooo 😅

I would agree. I think this route, though disappointing for people who wanted the MMO version, is much better than an online game just being shut down and now it's gone forever with no version you can play anymore. It sucks either way but this is probably the best possible outcome for what they can realistically do with how things are going.

Then it won't be called an " M.M.O" anymore

Thank you.

@@AJLaSaracinahonestly really happy it’s going to be a single player with co op option game now tbh. If it has offline as well, even better. Never really been a huge fan of mmo, so definitely going to look into this with the upcoming changes.

​@@AJLaSaracina​ I actually will check the game out as well, never heard of it or the drama, but simply deciding to step up and answer questions on live stream is a massively respectful thing to do, and super hard. I do not envy your position in the matter by any means, but you did an awesome job doing your best to be transparent and explain what was going on, or will go on. 10/10.

@@AJLaSaracina Yeah man you did good. Mad props for going out there with zero script and talking it out. I'm looking forward to the 31st and my friends may be joining me on the 11th.

Gonna buy this now

trust lmao, maybe if they didn't scam people out of 150$ they would have trust

@@demonkarris391 You didnt watch the video then? The publisher Digital Extreme's collected the money and not the studio which now has ownership rights. They can't refund what they don't have.

@@jakeboston6946 Why should I care as the customer? They took away the product I paid for and replaced it with a new, inferior version.

​@@jakeboston6946 He *thinks.* 14:01 He needs to confirm that and prove it, because, that's the crux of the matter. It makes all the difference. Because those founders aren't responsible for their misfortune with the publisher.

wouldn't most people be anxious about a massively public call that has their career riding on it?

@@LeBimbo agreed, plus he really doesn't has 100% say on it, he can only influence per his position.

@@LeBimbo Oh ya, whole heartedly. I would be doing worse xD

Ha, I ALWAYS pace when I'm talking on a call. It sounded like shit because Discord had reset my mic to my webcam! sorry about that. Thanks for having me on.

The boss eats the wins amd the losses.

Digital Extremes closed their publishing arm last year. I think it's a bit disingenuous for them to not be up front about their choice to remain Independent instead of finding an alternate publisher in the intervening 6+ months since this occurred.

@@jazzyjswift no big publisher want mmo in this current game industry climate.

@@jazzyjswift there is 0 chance of any publisher dishing out money for a failed mmo. It would be just a waste of money on their part. And if they do get a publisher, it would just make them milk every penny that can be milked with microtransactions. Because that's where dying mmos go.

If he didn't have any information on giving people their money back or the ability to refund them he shouldn't of gone on any live stream. Honestly these guys are partially responsible along with the publishers as they are the ones that developed a really bad and defective product.

​@@colinroberts1279 Saying "i don't know'" is information by itself. Shutting up is the right attitude in many cases, but honestly telling that you don't have an answer for something is never wrong.

Even RIOT said f no.

They knew. They made money for saying it

​@Tnargav riot is still doing the mmo as far as I understood. They went silent because they want it to be more revolutionary than just another wow clone with league skin over it. I don't blame them at all. The mmo market is definitely saturated even though most of it is trash. If they cant draw the wow crowd it could fail. They never announced anything or showed anything so they have nothing to lose as long as the work they did still makes it into whatever project they go with. But they definitely didn't say the mmo is canceled.

@@dylananhorn1 I hope so. I was so looking forward to their mmo. Let's wait and see.

One thing is for sure, the devs/community managers have been gaslighting the shit out of their community, just like a "Nigerian prince" 🤣

@@ph____ another things for sure... I bought all the Founder Packs and clearly want a refund for those promised products. I'll take store credit even though I paid with my Bank Card so sadge

Bro he is a video game streamer his job is to sit down and talk to a monitor lol although to be fair in his other videos with his friends he is still sitting

He’s referring to pacing when on a phone call.

He was paid multiple times to review the game

I think he's referring to anxiety movement, I pace as well but when I'm forced into a situation and I'm sitting, I start squirming in my seat, most people don't notice it but I do which adds to the anxiety.

@@cecollins68 noticed asmon does this too. He could be a pacer when on phone. I think I have seen a couple clips with him pacing while talking and moving his hands a while back.

Yup... too many entitled idiots out there who have no idea what the other outcome could have been. The devs literally saved their game with this move. Now it will at least continue to exist. The 'usual' early access response is just drop it and disappear like how many others... they'd be happy then huh?

Yeah, that's true, it is to the benefit of the people who actually want to play it.

That's great for a game that's been running for years and the publisher is abandoning it, leaving players a option to play it if they want. But for a new game that just launched, that's ridiculous, it's like charging you for a item, making you pay for it, and then saying "oh we're out of stock, but here's a version of it with less functions and options as a favor from me to you, you are welcome!."

@@paulofaquin That's _also_ true...

Bro Skysaga was so good! I still occasionally listen to the soundtrack just relive those days

That one had me rolling.

Yo Hades 2 is fire tho-

Hades 2 is actually out though. Early access, sure, but it's playable and pretty darn fun.

Democrat voters

@@cheerfulgestalt3282 Too woke for my taste. Edit: Yes Hades 2 is indeed woke, they found a way to make a god in wheelchair and there are 1000 other examples. Heck one of the god is queer/trans as well. Vote with your wallet.

who is paying for games that arent even completed yet. diablo 4..............................................................................

"Never get finished or even change at all" is exactly right. It's not the same as "shut down" or change into something completely different. There is a case to be made, although I wouldn't expect any good outcomes if they are forced to refund money they don't have.

There is a big difference between "change" and turn a MMO into a singleplayer

@@MrImmortal709 that's still covered by the "early access". Pretty much everything goes and you assume all risks.

@@MrImmortal709 you also agree that the game may shut down or stop dev tomorrow. changing the game is better than it disappearing, don't you think? when you buy early access your money is gone, you have no control over it, so stop using what you paid as a reason for demands. if you have a problem with that buy finished and established games only and control your impulses.

@@MrImmortal709big difference? The word change should cover that. It’s been “changed”.

But its not the game they paid for.... they paid for an mmo, its now turning to a single player. They were scammed. The only reason he's turning it into a single player game is because he wants to keep making money off it. But again, they didn't ask for a single player game and they deserve a refund from this scammer.

It's good PR, not really something worth applauding the guy for. I do hope the game gets good sales and is fun to play.

@@zach_zach5898 That is true, but I still think it takes bit of courage to come on and talk about it when people are viewing it as a negative thing. And I hope so too.

They are trying to persuade people from refunding and just accept the game is now single player.

A lot of devs wouldn’t say sht at all or just send out a tweet , I agree

​@@seafattI mean wouldn't you, at the end of the day everyone needs money or whatever they're working on to succeed. It's very rare you see a studio or devs own up or talk about their situation

That would be dope, hell even have sp with online co-op for some of the content and bam take my money

I would play the heck out of a non MMO WS.

@@bryin7I would play the heck out of plain old wildstar. Was there till the end. Literally the second it shut down. Was a sad day. Game was before its time. If they advertised it today, using streamers to pre test and get servers stable enough for a more smooth launch, it would find success. Probably won’t ever happen but one can dream I suppose lol

The problem is NC Soft owns all the IP rights for ANY game they published. It's happened with every game they've shuttered that they won't release it. While CoX is a biggest one, the developers for Auto Assault have stated multiple times they have tried to buy the IP off of NC Soft, and they refuse to even come to the table. NC Soft would rather let IPs rot than let so.eone else succeed with them. That's why them endorsing COX Homecoming floored so many people.

Yeah, what an awesome game that was.

And darksider games

iirc Project Copernicus was the mmo that never managed to go past pre production and KoA: Reckoning was pretty much the introduction to the world. a damn good one for sure. wish it had ng.

koa was pretty cool, very nice combat system, nice artstyle and alright graphics but the story and quest design were utter garbage. Also besides the immediate combat itself it felt dull VERY fast. It had lots of potential but there is a reason why it has never become another dark souls

I thought it was a 6.5/10, 7/10 pushing it.

Man i loved that game sad that it ended bad but my memories and soundtracks will remain...

the decision to make KoA offline was done well before the public ever even knew about it though. this is definitely uncharted territory. i don't envy the devs

All money went to DE not AS

He explained it, they do not have the money to refund. All the money went to the publisher that dropped them. He couldn't go into specifics because of legal reasons, but eluded to the fact that they're on the gamers' side to getting a refund through steam. DE is the one we should all have a gripe with

DE DIDNT RECOUP the costs of funding AS in the first place. No over Publisher would touch Waitfinder 🤣🤣 Roll on May 31st! ​@@gnice42

@@gnice42 Do you believe everything you're told?

@@deltafire5058 Do you not believe in anything you’re told? Stupid answer for a stupid question😑

Open world MMOs are just the very first thing devs with no experience will gravitate towards because they think it's all sunshine and roses.

honestly, if it were a F2P MMO it would have done well. IMO the artstyle and art direction of wayfinder kinda already looks like a F2P game. not that it lacks quality in those regards, but the visual "language" is kinda the same.

Didn't even know it was a mmo in the first place, thought it was SP/Co-op game. It looked like garbage from the trailers and gameplay I saw. I don't feel bad for people pre-ordering now a days. Just don't do it.

Is it coop? Or purely solo now?

They are good devs but it was a massive mistake to attempt an mmo of that scale. MMORPGs are the riskiest games any dev team could make, even having a strong IP to build it around isn't a guarantee it'll work.

Chris Roberts would disagree with this statement, while on his Yacht drinking backer paid champagne.

Difference with Star Citizen is it’s actually still around and is still getting updates. In fact, it’s just gotten one of the largest updates in its history.

I've been waiting years for dice, no way I'd ever expect an entire mmo.

@@tiestofalljays Na it's still a huge scam

Its only going cause the same whales insisting it'll be done eventually are buying ships for 10s of thousands each. ​@@tiestofalljays

I got the $150 edition, not mad. Gotta be emotionally mature.

Words of wisdom.

@@TentaclebuckeT you mean we that paid $150 aren't supposed to whine and cry and send the dev death threats??? But fr people are way too happy to spend money on something that may or may not come to fruition in the end. Only ones to blame are themselves

I can understand if that was with a unknown company but it went through a legitimate publisher. Its like buying a samsung TV from Amazon and getting a Westinghouse.

@@jlee9360 except the publisher decided it didn't want to publish anymore and left the developer holding the bag.

Did you really just use Outriders as a valid good example huh lmfao 😅😅😂

@@ashleyjanes7420 I think its pretty obvious he's referring to the style of game, an arpg that plays a bit like an mmo, rather than the success stories of the individual games. Not like KOA was successful as all releasing alongside skyrim, shit shut down a whole studio. Fun game though

that pfp 💀

@@ashleyjanes7420 Outriders is amazing though, its extremely fun to play, its possible it garnered hate from when it came out but I found it to be really good once I ignored ratings and past criticism. Actually, just talking about it makes me want to install it again.

And Early Access. I don’t mind them but damn.

It wasnt really a preorder at the time. The game was originally going to be coming out for free. Founders pack was mainly to just support development and get goodies for supporting it. now you are losing eveyrhting you got form founders packs for supporting the game because its all being wiped.

Yep, my trust was already low in Early Access, but this was the final nail. I rather pirate an early access game then even backing one ever again. I'll buy it at full release, but assholes like Airship syndicate never ever will deserve a single EA dime from me anymore. Companies like these are the reason people still default to pirating.

It is pretty easy to tell a game that's a scam from a real game, but that's to veteran gamers. New gamers are getting scammed left and right, and this won't stop because gaming has always been on the rise.

Specially MMO. If there is a type of game that fail the most often is is MMOs.

Exactly. I personally do not buy Early Access games at all due to how much changes (or just dies) before a game launch. I wont pay to beta test games.

I preordered fkn diablo 4 im sad, I only fkn played like a couple hours on the beta

@@ProxCQ at least it isn't as bad as before tbh... remember when kickstarter game backing started popping off and tons of games were scams or slow to release, with mansions suddenly being purchased for the main team leads?

HD2 is p2p with microtransactions. It's no diamond.

Lmao stop with the helldivers meat riding it’s no diamond

@@MS-en7mt well they do update the game every now and then and they use that money to do that so it is fair game But when they do it every other company does and just use it for personal gain obviously yeah then that's true

@@MS-en7mt no. HD2 HAS microtransactions but is not necessary to level up with it. You can earn the super credits by doing missions and you can still obtain the gear from doing it. It may take longer because of the farming, but it gives you the ability to earn it. If you don't want to farm and play then you can buy it. It's a diamond because the microtransactions isn't forced on you and you have the ability to earn the items put on the store to be bought. Also, the items on the store doesn't really affect game play in the sense you can buy it and become OP, it's mainly cosmetics or minor amor upgrades with a cosmetic look. All the armors you earn or can buy have the same attributes such as the medic one. You're wrong on this.

ROCK AND STONE BROTHER

I backed both......guess I will never learn smh

I mean with Fortnite I can still play save the world and get free v bucks by doing dailies and could even give the free v bucks aspect to 2 other people plus enjoy all the new shit if I do choose or not.

Everquest landmark fans....

This sane and fair society, is it in the room with us right now? Sorry just being a bit cynical

Killing floor still permits client server hosting, it still exists in the world its just very not common

The game should have never existed from the beginning. The world would have been better off without.

@@KazuyaYuza Indeed, just like you.

"random streamer" I'm not a fan of Asmon but he ain't random.

Well this game worked more like Warframe, and not WOW, thats why Digital Extremes handled everything like the cash shop and network stuff

People don't realise that the biggest and most important factor in MMO's is a balanced well functioning economy. If the loot that gets dropped is too easy to get it will get sold for pennies on the market and the items you can craft with it become worthless, basically inflation inside the game. This in turn can make crafting unviable or uninteresting economically, since you might spend more on crafting materials then selling it in the market just to level up your crafting level. If all the loot is either worthless or extremely expensive nobody wants to grind the worthless stuff and instead everyone clusters around the extremely expensive endgame loot while all the other places remain empty wastelands.

Same.

Same, payed the $150 and have no sympathy for the people whining. If you have no risk tolerance you have no business spending that kind of money.

oof -150

that's fair

Genuinely curious why you buy into a situation like this?

yeah an mmo that had you purchase characters like warframe. or you could "craft" them. like warframe.

Bruh just cause something is MMO doesn't mean it's like WoW or some shit 😅 it's literally massively multiplayer online, you know like a game that's online with multiplayer and people sharing a same server or instance. Not that hard to figure out

@@terminalarch6767 calling a warframe a character is still a bit of a stretch

Named characters as playable characters in MMOs aren't common nowadays, but they used to be a norm in Asian MMOs. Depending on the style of game and what it's supposed to focus on, named characters can make sense - that said, there is a reason why they fell out of fashion, and that's because it's not popular with the general MMO player base.

Vindictus is like that, classes are basically characters so if you want to play with sword and shield you have to be a girl named Fiona and if you want to play with a bow you are locked into a dude named Kai. Not that weird to me, makes class-specific sets easier to make for the devs too.

And i looooove Amalur, got over 1000 hours in it, and with 300 hours in wayfinder, im ALL for them taking the game this direction!

I had no idea that Salvatore was behind the game. My favourite fiction author and one of my favourite RPGs. Now I gotta reread the dark elf trilogy and play some Re-Reckoning lol

Bro this explains so much. I remember when KoAR first came out I played it thinking "This feels like an MMO that someone turned into a single player game. I had no idea I was actually right.

It's not true, that was a separate game they acquired along with the studio and made part of their franchise in order to put something out iirc

It is true in the sense of a game that's already playable and running. KoA: Reckoning had it's shift long before they released even a demo build but for a playable game to go from MMO to Singleplayer? Can't think of one, even Hellgate: London was taken off market and servers got shut down for a long time before they finally brought it back as a singleplayer game even though it's basically just shovelware with no dev still updating it or anything.

Exactly. What they are doing is basically what everyone has asked for on games that are hitting an end of service or being shutdown.

Depends. If people get refunds for MMO content, sure. If not, it is a scam. Not fully but still a scam. At least actual game is being developed and might be good.

People will seriously bend over backwards to protect liars and thieves

the game didn't suck tho, people genuinely licked it, and its avg player count before being shut down shows this. The guy literally explains why all this went down and people still dont get it....

@@i.amsway7878 I definitely get that, I played it and thought it was alright. In that case I would say a game that likely had no chance to succeed in what they are trying to accomplish.

If WoW and the Devision 1 and 2 did that i would spend the rest of life finishing them

yea airship couldve just cut their losses when DE left months ago but they persevered to release this for us

Good, you shouldn't. Faith can blind us to reality. At most we should be cautiously optimistic and see what happens before hyping shit up before a game is even finished.

The only game I can say I'm looking forward too in the next few years is Light No Fire.

Too many damn microtransactions, they always turn to pay to win and it ruins the game

Digital Extremes closed their publishing arm 9 months ago. They've been out of the picture on Wayfinder for almost a year. The Dev trying to spin this like it's DE's fault as though this is recent, when Airship Syndicate chose to go independent instead of finding an alternative publisher is pretty scummy. They had plenty of time. There are interviews from the discussion where they are "excited to be in charge of their own course" finally. They chose to go indie, and failed.

​@@jazzyjswift they probably didn't have a choice. As an example Digital Extremes couldn't find anyone to publish Warframe and they had to make a completely differentgane called "dark sektor" Even gr8 games can struggle to find a publisher and as you can tell publishers push things regardless of what the devs want

​@@VetriVade Agreed. People who call this "scummy", IMO, seem to have little to no idea how complex the entire situation was. They just go full caveman "we want money back ooga booga scam oog oog" without thought of where their money actually went to and who actually got what % of their money. People there acting like Airship got 100% of their money locked behind a safe or something. For me, if I was Steam, I'd ask a simple question - who was the publisher when the game's special versions were bought? If they said DE, well, I'd redirect their refunds to that publisher. Or recommend people sue the original publisher. Screaming at Airship won't help IMO.

Soulframe killed Wayfinder

​@@jazzyjswiftDE is known to be a bad publisher, nothing they backed succeeded, they were right to cut publishings arm, but the timing was unfortunate. It's safe to assume that the game depended on DE's support to at least make it to release.

after all this happening there is no future for these devs. They were horrible even on discord on launch they downplay everything and make empty promises then dont show up when its time to show results.

They're*

@@flavioromano8754 ☝🤓 Thank you for correcting his mistake otherwise I would've had to destroy him with my linguistical skills.

to be fair i have never seen a game with a more fair f2p business modell then warframe. as an semi active player your able to basicly get every single thing you want even the very new stuff. the trading in that game is so good i got more platin than i would even know how to spend it

Warframe is to gaming as hot dog water is to nourishment. Get better taste

@@alexpopov6661 salty? get better taste buds

Imagine blaming the PUBLISHER for making your launch-day of the game a disaster. Besides servers being dead game also crashed like 10 times per hour

24k to 20 players, surely the devs are the flawless golden baby? blame the publisher for what, dodged a bullet?

Digital Extremes pulled out of Wayfinder 9 months ago because their entire publishing arm closed. People at DE lost jobs. It had nothing to do with dodging a bullet, they've been out of the picture for awhile. That's got nothing to do with Airship's management of Founder's investment now.

1 early access 2 a publisher with a successful first game should be able to make decent servers for launch and most of the liver service systems of progression came with the input of digital extremes Warframe pretty much progress the same unless you pay

@@Lekser yeah because publishers have never been responsible of setting release dates and refusing to budge if the game is not ready yet

the issue is people paid for founders packs people are really more upset at the fact that we lose all our founders stuff.

Not really the first, devs who made the Kingdoms of Amalur also went into a similar scenario, much worse if you asked me. They delievered the game as a singleplayer finished product instead of the envisioned MMO.

Been a founder since day one, I have already come to terms with what happened and I'm just glad the game is gonna be available forever.

they sold this as a fantasy warframe and now this... wat a shame L devs

@@drJhowPhd L Digital Extremes

@@drJhowPhdwas it not?

It is extremely disappointing that many of the reasons for buying founders packs are going away I do see the passion though and I count myself as one of the gamers that appreciates the transparency and willingness to not just kill the game. Just wanting to see what can be done for those who supported the most from the start.

Sad days

the real problem here is , you spending 1600 hours of your life on a video game

​@@konstantingr5928I was a youtuber creating content in the game. I led as far as I know as the highest ranked American player

They should have left Matchmaking at least in the game and offered xp bonuses for players who spent time in game

Sounds like you got your money's worth out of it then. Shit like this is gonna happen with the modern gaming landscape being what it is.