Anselm, of Canterbury, the Proslogion, ch. 2-4 - Introduction to Philosophy

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Gregory B. Sadler

Gregory B. Sadler

12 жыл бұрын

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In this lecture from my Fall 2011 Introduction to Philosophy class at Marist College, we discuss Anselm's Proslogion, chapters 2-4, where Anselm makes several arguments about the existence of God (including the so-called "ontological" argument)
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#Anselm #medieval #proslogion #philosophy #Christianity #theology #metaphysics #God #divinity #argument

Пікірлер: 57
@CsnvLsRnst
@CsnvLsRnst 2 жыл бұрын
If I had the honor of being in a class imparted by Dr. Sadler, where he asked this many questions, I wouldn't stop talking, even if I was totally wrong. It baffles me how the entire class was silent for most of the lecture, when he taught everything in such a clear and enjoyable way.
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 2 жыл бұрын
These are freshmen, first semester. Who knows what their high school education was like
@daisyhowardmusic
@daisyhowardmusic 10 жыл бұрын
I just want to thank you for posting this - I had a class on Anselm today and was completely lost. Yes, its a complicated text to get your head around, but.. after watching your discussion of Anselm, I finally feel its making sense :)
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 10 жыл бұрын
Glad that the video was helpful for you
@kinseyburnett4247
@kinseyburnett4247 4 жыл бұрын
All of your videos are so helpful! You've been getting me through all of my philosophy classes!
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 4 жыл бұрын
Glad they've been useful for you!
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 12 жыл бұрын
You're welcome -- glad you liked it. I had a similar experience with the argument about God's existence in the Proslogion. And, from his biographer's discussion about it, and even more from Anselm's own narrative in the Introduction to Proslogion, it sounds as if he also had such an experience with it
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 11 жыл бұрын
You're welcome -- and thanks for suggesting my videos to other people. The problem with this video (and a few others I've shot as well) is that the flipcams I work with have limited battery power, and at times can also overheat. So, about an hour is what I typically can get out of them
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 11 жыл бұрын
Well, glad you cleared all that up for us. And now. . . back to the Anselm
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 11 жыл бұрын
Glad it helped you out
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 12 жыл бұрын
@hjmoors Glad the video was helpful for you. Participation can be a real issue at Marist, particularly with the Freshmen students, and especially when we're discussing matters tied up with religion. They're a bit afraid of having the "wrong answer" - easy to do in a culture often preaching to them that religious matters are not to be discussed. Interesting that - in my observation - there's also a great hunger out there to think, learn, talk about religious matters.
@Havoc72487
@Havoc72487 11 жыл бұрын
Thank you this really helped me out, you made it a lot easier for me to understand then my teacher
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 12 жыл бұрын
Thanks! I'm glad you got so much out of it
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 12 жыл бұрын
I've wavered back and forth about his "argument" (which actually is the whole of the Proslogion, minus the last three chapters, not just the "ontological" chapters) for years myself. You're welcome, and thanks for the kind words
@goldsackb2
@goldsackb2 12 жыл бұрын
When I heard this argument in my philosophy of religion class it took me about 3 weeks to grasp it. I was walking home from class one day, not even thinking about the argument, then, out of nowhere it struck me. I don't know what neural connection was made, I don't know if it was God's hand, I don't know if it was God's hand making a neural connection, but my life changed ever since. It was nice hearing this again, thank you.
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 12 жыл бұрын
@lindyholic Thanks! I couldn't for the life of me remember -- though I could see the image of Anselm struggling to keep himself from being garbed in his episcopal garb!
@checkdafresh
@checkdafresh 12 жыл бұрын
wow! that explanation of the argument was insightful. NOW I UNDERSTAND!!! Thanks...I feel like Socrates.
@hjmoors
@hjmoors 12 жыл бұрын
Thanks for uploading this. Couldn't understand what Anselm was talking about in Proslogion. Wish more people participated. Talk about a dull class.
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 11 жыл бұрын
I did complete that lecture. But yes, there is a second part. Go to the Anselm playlist, or to the Intro to Philosophy playlist, and you'll find it
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 12 жыл бұрын
That is a tough one to wrap one's head around. You're right, for a Christian Platonic thinker like Anselm, God not only has to have the highest degree of being, he has to BE being itself, and be the creative source of being. One implication of this would be that our own concept of being -- which we typically think we've got down and understand quite well, applying it to everything else -- is in some respects deficient. Someone who I've seen write about this issue well is Norris Clarke
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 12 жыл бұрын
Well, in presenting this to freshmen, I'm skimming over quite a bit -- but yes, Anselm's view is that if we start with a set of assumptions, work them out dialectically, and find a contradiction is generated as a result, then something must be wrong with one of the assumptions. You see him doing this throughout his works in a variety of ways. And you're right, the structure of argumentation can have flaws as well -- Anselm is also very good, if you read through his texts, at pointing those out
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 11 жыл бұрын
Yep, those are standard lines about modal arguments. I'd say -- and these are conclusions I arrived at over a decade ago, after working on Anselm and various reconstructions of his "argument" for a few years -- they can be said to be "based on what anselm was doing" in only the very loosest sense of "based on". You're quite welcome to them. I've got no use for them as anything supposedly "Anselmian". If someone wants to advance them as separate arguments on their own, that's fine
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 11 жыл бұрын
Sounds good
@88yenos
@88yenos 11 жыл бұрын
rely on our thought. Thanks for taking the time to reply if you decide to sir.
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 12 жыл бұрын
yep, Anselm commits himself explicitly at many times to saying that while we can understand God, his attributes, etc. to some degree -- and with effort, more than the almost nothing we start with -- we can never comprehend God entirely. If you go on in the Prologion, you'll see him actually affirm that, God being that than which nothing greater can be thought means that he is also greater than what can be thought (by us)
@JoshV74656
@JoshV74656 4 жыл бұрын
I'm just a life long learner and this lecture definitely helped me to understand the argument Anselm was trying to make in favor of the existence of God. Particularly explaining how the real thing (eating lasagna) is greater than just the thought of said thing (imagining eating lasagna). Therefore if God actually is "a being/thought that which no greater can be thought", then God as a real being would trump God as just a thought, making God real. But for this argument to be convincing I think one would have to buy into the original premise that God truly is "a being/thought that which no greater can be thought", which is probably more convincing for monks (Anselms audience) or those of faith who already believe in the idea of God than a non believer who may reject Anselms original premise/definition. For example perhaps "a being/thought that which no greater can be thought" isn't a being/God at all but just the limits of the human imagination. Either way its an elegant argument once you begin to wrap your head around it.
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 4 жыл бұрын
That's so funny, thinking that only monks would understand God in that way.
@JoshV74656
@JoshV74656 4 жыл бұрын
@@GregoryBSadler I think I'm struggling with the definition of God as "that which no greater is able to be thought". I'm lumping it in with ancient religion lazily using God to explain the unexplainable. Like thunder being a power of the Greek gods because the nature of thunder wasn't understood at the time. Defining "that which no greater is able to be thought" as God because its beyond our understanding or imagination seems unsatisfying from my point of view. However, when I move past that objection and just accept Anselms definition of God as "that which no greater is able to be though" the rest of the argument makes a lot of sense.
@bennywen3826
@bennywen3826 11 жыл бұрын
Hi professor Sadler, is there a second part to this? I don't believe you completed your lecture. Btw, your lectures are much better than my professor lol
@Yankees94
@Yankees94 8 жыл бұрын
Why must it be the case that the greatest conceivable being exists? Is it because it's necessarily true that it's greater to exist in reality and the mind than just the mind alone?
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 8 жыл бұрын
+David Viscuso Anselm doesn't say the "greatest conceivable being" exists. He says "that than which nothing greater can be thought" can be proven to exist by this portion of the "unum argumentem" - you'll want to look at the text
@goldsackb2
@goldsackb2 12 жыл бұрын
One thing I still have a difficult time wrapping my head around is the concept of God "being" existence. Since he is the greatest thing conceivable, he cannot be a quantity or amount of a thing, he would need to be the very source and all encompassing aspect of that particular thing. When thinking of the idea of God's existence he therefore must BE existence in an infinitesimal way. I can imagine infinite love, generosity, justice, but I cannot imagine infinite existence. Can you touch on this?
@thebrninater
@thebrninater 7 жыл бұрын
wish I was in one of your lectures, prof
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 7 жыл бұрын
Well, I do host online events each month - and occasionally hold full online classes. I also do travel to do public speaking
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 11 жыл бұрын
I'm pretty uninterested in modal ontological arguments. I'm much more interested in discussing Anselm, rather than reconstructions of what people think he's up to
@88yenos
@88yenos 11 жыл бұрын
Wouldn't a contradiction to the lasagna "proposition" for lack of a better word, be that I am thinking of lasagna and choose to make my own but the lasagna itself tastes unsatisfactory to what my thought was despite following all directions listed. That is, why does the actual existence of something HAVE to better than the thought, it's very clear in something as the 20 dollar bill you used but I believe the concept itself is fallacy and relies on assertion. It's only through reality that we can
@lindyholic
@lindyholic 12 жыл бұрын
It's called a crozier :)
@Jy3pr6
@Jy3pr6 7 жыл бұрын
Do you personally believe some form of the ontological argument successfully proves the existence of God?
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 7 жыл бұрын
Depends on what you mean by "proves". That's a rather ambiguous term
@Jy3pr6
@Jy3pr6 7 жыл бұрын
Since most philosophers would unhesitatingly reply with a "no" to that question, I'd count it as an interesting biographical discovery if you should respond affirmatively to my question on even the weakest sense of the word "prove"
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 11 жыл бұрын
Christian
@Yankees94
@Yankees94 9 жыл бұрын
When I think about God, I think about a God who's Essence is Identical with His Existence. Thomas Aquinas refers to God as the Sheer Act of Being Itself.
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 9 жыл бұрын
David Viscuso Sure, you can think about God any way you like, I suppose, including taking some of Thomas' ideas about God. Anselm is doing something a bit different here than what Thomas does
@Yankees94
@Yankees94 9 жыл бұрын
Gregory B. Sadler I really enjoy your lectures and I will actually watch the Anselm one again. But what does Anselm do, that Descartes does differently in his ontological argument?
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 9 жыл бұрын
Well... That's answered easily in a lexical level by just looking at what the argumentation in the text says. Anselm isn't doing the same thing as Descartes either. Although it is handy for classification, there really isn't one "ontological argument" of which Anselm's, Descartes', Sponoza's, etc would merely be variations. On a deeper level, Anselm's "argument" is not just proslogion 2 or 2-4. It's the entire text, minus the last three chapters (which are supplementary "conjectiones")
@alexanderdebree9295
@alexanderdebree9295 9 жыл бұрын
David Viscuso After Anselm wrote the Proslogion, a couple of authors such as Gaunilo, John Duns Scotus and Aquinas wrote on it, only for it to be largly neglected afterwards until Descartes formulated his own ontological argument in the 17th century. He did not mention Anselm as his precursor ( the irony is, though in a different respect, that Anselm himself refrained from quoting authority too, e.g. sola ratione) but it is possible, if not likely, that he has never read Anselm and thus came up with his own argument. In support of this, it has been mentioned that his ontological argument is consistent with the rest of his philosophy. His definition of God differs slightly from that of Anselms ( a Supreme Perfect Being v.s. that than which a greater cannot be thought) and he views God as a coherent truth that can be comparable to the truth of mathematical concepts. He argues that just like a triangle entails that the sum of all its angles is 180 degrees ( non-euclidean space was not discovered back then), or that an equilateral triangle entails that it is equiangular, so too is the truth of God such that it is a necessary being. As a realist ( a person that regards concepts to have some existential value), linking the concept of God to mathematical concepts, was a strong move. Perhaps the main difference between the two is the following. Whereas Anselm regarded his inquiry into the existence of god as fides quaerens intellectum ( faith seeking understanding), or in a similar expression, credo ut intelligam ( I believe so that I may understand), for Descartes this seems to have been the other way around, as he believed one discovers truth by reason. The two are similar to some extent, however Anselm thought that faith was a necessary prerequisite to understanding, and Descartes, to my knowledge, did not. In any case, Descartes revived the interest in the ontological argument, which is why the ontological argument today has such a rich history, including the authors mentioned above; Kant's criticism, Gödels formalized version, and alot of other symbolic representations of the argument, such as those of Hartshorne, Priest, Jaquette and most recently, issue 17 of the logical analysis and history of philosophy (LAHP) has Anselm as it's subject. If you are interested in the different versions of the ontological argument, I can recommend Plantinga's 'The ontological argument, from St. Anselm to contemporary philosophers' - it included both Anselm's and Descartes' version. For a better comprehension of Anselm's argument, the articles by Brian Leftow and Brian Davies in the Cambridge companion to Anselm, or Southern's authoritative book Saint Anselm (pp 113-137), would be a good starting point. Gregory B. Sadler Thank you for uploading this lecture. I have watched your video on how you became an Anselm scholar too, with pleasure, as I can identify with your story since I'm currently writing a thesis on Anselm myself. It only attests to Anselm's brilliance that his argument can inspire and fascinate atheists and theists alike. I would like to read your 'The Ontological Proof, the Option, and the Unique Necessaire', however, when I request the article It seems to redirect me away from the DOAJ. Is there, perhaps, another way I can access it?
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 9 жыл бұрын
Sometimes Academia.edu can be glitchy, but it actually downloads from the Academia.edu site, if you click Download. If it doesn't work for you, email me at greg@reasonio.com
@Yankees94
@Yankees94 9 жыл бұрын
Any person can think of themselves being much greater than what they already are. I can think of myself speaking fluently every word language in the world. But if God is that which nothing greater can be thought and he is a person....can God think of Himself being much greater than he already is? If he can't think of himself being much greater than he already is, then it would follow that is is the greatest thing imaginable. And if he can think of himself being much greater, then it follows he is that greatest thing possible. I don't know lol
@reasoniocritthinking
@reasoniocritthinking 9 жыл бұрын
David Viscuso In a word, no
@Yankees94
@Yankees94 9 жыл бұрын
Critical Thinking, Logic, and Argumentation (ReasonIO) By any chance, do you have any lectures on the philosophy of G.K Chesterton? He is sort of interesting Catholic lay figure, like myself.
@GregoryBSadler
@GregoryBSadler 9 жыл бұрын
David Viscuso Hahaha! -- that's what happens when you're juggling multiple channels! Chesterton? No, not at this time? He is someone I do like quite a bit, so, down the line. . . .
@goldsackb2
@goldsackb2 12 жыл бұрын
I figure if you or I could totally comprehend God then he wouldn't be that which nothing greater can be conceived. Humans are arrogant. Imagine an ant sitting in a physics class. It may physically be hearing the words coming from the teacher, but is intellectually unable to comprehend the lesson. We are less than God. He could be doing things and showing us things that are clear as day, but we just simply don't have the capability to understand it outside of our limited human comprehension.
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