I was on the same server with Mike during the Evo test, and as everyone were running about like headless chickens trying to get to their hangars, he said "Queue up the Benny Hill music"!! Classic! Made me cackle loudly a little, even though it was in the wee hours of the night and everyone was fast asleep! EDIT: I wrote this comment before hearing it from the ATC! Mike it was the most hilarious moment of the playtest, but also keep in mind that elevator names kept changing even when yours was displayed at the time you made it through the door.

Auto loading cargo should always be faster than self loading. Doesn’t have to be by much. But we have to pay a premium for it. I’m paying for convenience and experience. What they could add as well is the more rep you have with a buying/selling location the faster or cheaper it is to auto load. Self loading should only be an option for people who want to do it. It’s a game and it HAS to be fun for most.

On naming gun boxes and stuff give us the option to change the box colour as well! So easy to tell at a glance guns are red, armour green, meds white

25:15 seems Mike has never worked in warehousing and distribution. A full load is cheaper in bulk. If you did it all in smaller (not bulk) is MUCH more costly and takes more time. The large boxes should be incentivised, less time/cost. The ONLY thing he got right was equipment and that is where the cost is. However all in all bulk is cheaper IRL.

I feel like the auto loading time is more or less only meant for when you go to sleep. They want you to live load not auto load, but they make it an option available if you want it. Like the $20,000 ship package makes it available if you want it but at a steep cost

I really like the idea put forth by our truck driving friend. Being able to do hauling missions with the caterpillar or ironclad is genius. The only investment for the mission is buying your own compatible snub. CIG please take note!

Thanks for sharing your Evo experience with other testers. It makes sense why the game is the way it is. It confirmed what I wondered, for sure... Also, the trolley/cart will have a more defined purpose as more things come into play. Raiding is one such example. When you're fighting, you'll need guns while someone wheels your goods out.

A trade console in your hangar seems like a perfect reputation/purchasable improvement upgrade option.

For the loading topic. I would think that moving 32 boxes might be more expensive than moving small boxes. While the loading time should not be added up that hard like it is now. So hit the person in the wallet taking the big containers.

Chad made it sound like it was on the cusp of being ready for 3.23, but just needed some tweaks. Hearing how it has been running for Evo makes it sound like it was actually a hot mess.

I don't like that a tractor beam can move any sized container

You got to pause and read the drop down menus on the SCL Reward Calculator. Those 4 drop downs show the range of difficulties and it is interesting to see the options they are thinking about. Plus the names of the categories were definitely made to be paused and read.

Just gonna put this out there: I too initially thought the 4250uec reward was low…but then I actually thought about it. Averaging values here; 90 SCU Titanium nets you around 140uec (buy for 360, sell for 500). That comes out to 12,500uec profit if you bought and sold the Titanium yourself, which also means putting up 32,000uec of your own money on the line for that trade. Now, the mission pays 4250uec…that’s around 33% of the max profit from that trade! Looking at it like that…doesn’t seem like too bad of a deal.

I think CIG is bugging with all of these times. the vast majority of their player base are adults and dont have a ton of time for the most part. They need to chill with turning a whole tuesday gaming sesh into only being able to freaking unloading your ship and go in the city to sell it. I get it, realism... but I'm really not liking the time abuses that are adding up in SC. Sure paying to make things faster should be an option, but making it mandatory would be wild.

LOLOL the mike in the backround making sure you dont hit the copium tank 😭😭😭🤣

1:26:56 I'm not sure of the origin of this idea, but it was not me, unfortunately. I firmly believe that "Personal Hangars" should not open to space/atmosphere. They should load into/from instanced hangars. So, you would need to call ATC, land in an instanced hangar, and then call a different ATC, or perhaps a warehouse controller, the hanagar floor would drop out of the instanced hangar and into the personal one. That would solve the issue of dive-bombing into an instanced hangar. This is essentially how things work in Elite Dangerous, minus the personal hangar part...

Great show - some really valid points and concerns on the inventory changes with 3.24. If they kept small inventory as is and were purely introducing the physicalization of the cargo process I believe it would be a lot more successful. The physicalization of local inventories for player loot should be mostly optional, or it needs to be made so easy to do that its not a drama.

I like the idea of sliding scales for auto-loading cargo. Faster time, higher rate.

40:00 If the personal inventory kiosk let you set what armor is in an armor rack and guns in gun racks and items in "external storage" on ships, it would be a good feature.

That ending tho...............Nice one Croncy! 🤣

How will refinery orders work with cargo elevators again? Will I be able to combine refinery orders if they are ready at the time I request them, and if so, can I then request the larger boxes for both orders to contained in? How will elevators work in refinery stations?

For cargo times and speed, there should be a mix of SCU and box size when calculating prices and time to load, just like how it works IRL

If the crimestat mentioned at around 34:40 works the same way the other armistice crimestats do (bumping a vehicle too aggressively with another vehicle gives you a violation and a 20k fine), then they stack up. Add enough of those, and your CS goes up to 3. I bumped an abandoned Vulture off a landing pad with an Ursa once, and I got a CS 3 for my trouble. My log listed about a dozen 20k fines for CS 2. I'm guessing stealing one box would barely be noticeable for the CS thing, but if you nicked someone's entire cargo load, they'd add up quickly. And before you ask how I didn't notice the violations piling up - I was happily bumping that Vulture off the pad in third person.

The drawers is just a treasure chest or storage chest from every mmo ever with extra steps. I actually like Croncys idea of having them in a standard storage container and bring it up from your freight elevator. That is physicalized inventory and its stored realistically and the stations cargo storage area instead of a magical item delivery drawer...

The problem with the values of cargo missions and comparing it with current ship prices. The prices of the ships were build with game loop rewards in place like salvaging. So now we see new prices lower and may be the value of RMC might go down again and CM going further down. 5k for RCM and 0.5 for CM or even lower while the price for the missions stays as the example. Since we are moving in different places with different speeds there is no overall view possible right now.

Totally agree with the inventory. Its not a step forward. Its a step back. Great show guys 👏 👏 👏 👏

I think even unlawful players deserve to have a safe place to display their trophies and gear up. Its just that safety would come at the price of gaining sufficient rep with the gang that controls the station you live at in pyro. Otherwise, without the rep, and the gang vouching for you, youre nobody my guy, a pirates life for me. As for cargo movement, id think there should be incentive to use larger boxes for faster loading of larger amounts of cargo. I also think the differentiation of tractor beam capabilities would help too. I.e. a pyro tractor would only move 1, 2, and 4 scu boxes, a maxlift can move everything. That would also justify higher autoloading costs while preserving lower loading times for larger boxes. "Requires more/better equipment for larger boxes" It wouldnt take longer to load larger boxes, it would just cost more. As for ships being unreasonably difficult or cunbersome to load, i think people forget the C2 isnt specifically designed to be a bulk lifter, it was originally billed as a vehicle and ship transport, that also can do cargo. Whereas the Hull-A and RAFT are specifically cargo lifters. Thus are very easy to load or unload with exterior bays designed for quick attach/detach mechanics. Im concerned though, that commodities could be purchased to work with the raft regardless of size. The clamps are clearly built for 32scu boxes only, what if you have a contract with smaller boxes? Is the raft then incapable of completing it? Or can 16scu of *commodity* be loaded into a 32scu box?

Add a kiosk in your hangar for you to be able to sell to TDD but you get X % less than actually manually going to TDD ( 20% give or take ).

​ @yous2244 I understand that, i'm simply saying that if you choose for AI to load your ship then you should be penalized with IRL times. the point of the cargo change is to add a sense of reality when loading a ship. If you want to skip that, cool. Do you want the game to be more realistic or do you not? We all know loading cargo with the tools at our disposal will take way less time then trying to skip what the developers are trying to offer us. Think of it as a balance that keeps everyone happy. How fast can you move a heavy box from point A to B while you get paid by the hour?? Ying Yang my guy!

So what I am hearing is we can finally have player markets!! Set up shop in your hangar and invite buyers to your party to sell your wares!! I hope we can finally exchange cargo too!

Will we ever get a remote clicker for our ship doors? I want to be able to pull up behind the ship, open the door remotely and drive my vehicle in and then close it behind me. I mean my good ol 20 year old minivan can do that with it's doors from the hand held clicker.

I have a small concern about personal hangar sizes. All my ships are bought through CCU’s and currently hangar sizes are allocated by the size of the biggest ship bought from scratch and not from the biggest ship you upgraded to. I’m assuming they fix this but slightly worried that they don’t

Have they activated our suit lockers in our ships to work in evo?

48:42 Mike sounding like a true American… 😝

So in our ships, we are supposed to have to go to the locker, drawer, cabinet or whatever to retrieve what we put in that place. This would apply to habs eventually also, I'm extrapolating. Is that why this system is set up this way?

The other part of Refining vs Autoloading is that you can't currently refine yourself When you know how long it will take you to do the thing, and it takes significantly longer and for money, why would you auto load on that thought process. Mining outposts should sell unrefined mining ores too.

Would a trolly with cargo boxes on it during an FPS mission be able to function as a mobile barricade? Movable hard cover?

Make our suit lockers in our ships useful...I would like to see the ability to go to vehicle manager and be able to save a specific armor set of my choice ( maybe even a store bought set even ) to be in the suit locker of my choice of my said ship and would be there when i claim the ship again. this would solve the so called time sync problem we are having an issue with. Upvote my suggestion in spectrum if you agree.

I would totally do a boring ass cargo mission whilst drinking a beer zoned out while waiting for some friends to get online to do something else.

The Item Banks are very missinterpreted. Physicalized stuff means it shouldn't be any inventory at all. The actual item banks is where stuff is placed from shops locally. It's a mailbox where you can shove and take out your items but the best place for those are in our personal hangars now and in our personal habitat someday.

I’m so confused, why would not paying for “the cargo company to load you ship” not be as quick as “loading it yourself”. Yea cost more money. But one is quicker and has a fee, the other is slower and is free. Would that not be the compromise on something like this?

How about an option just like in refineries, pay more, load faster, pay less load slower etc... and yeah reputation should also affect price and load time

I haven’t tested any of this my self but from what I am seeing from all these videos on it is so many are only focusing on auto unloading I do think it still needs to be adjusted but I also think it should not be the go to way to unload a ship i think manually unloading by self or as a group should be Moore rewarding than auto unloading why should someone pressing a button get the same rewards as someone actchaly working hard

3 months for a constellation is crazy man... feels legit like shit especially when people pay2win this shit. Imo we should think of ships more of "hulls" which are itself very cheap but need to be upgraded a lot to be valuable. One last scam of the backers so we can have a good game in the end lol

This game is a testing phase so we should be able to buy ships in game for reasonable prices so they can be tested!

The only people that should be self loading and unloading are pirates. The haulers shouldn't be punished for purchasing goods legally. In the real world the cargo gets loaded by the warehouse. We're not Amazon home delivery service. Edit: I do like option of unloading cargo into my personal hangar to be stowed.

About the mission and reward, there has to be some corrolation between the cargo value and reward. What is stopping me form selling it off by myself or via a befriend pirate? Maybe you should be able to infest your own money in a cargo mission, for a better reward. Also curious if they calculated the 30s per scu in the reward 60s per scu if you also have to unload.

Won’t refinery jobs now also be taking longer as you will have to either manually unload and load the resources before and after refining

Cargo movement should be per box, not per SCU. That would make more sense. If you're using tractor beams, the effort and speed are irrelevant to size.

30 seconds is not bad for autoload

Light enhancement and night vision are the same thing. All night vision systems amplify ambient light.

Consider getting a pillow with a target painted on it for your chair.

Yeah there going to change the loading times for SCU boxes. Imagine, let me load up my Ironclad 1500 SCU, oh that's 12.5 hours, well ok I'll play tomorrow when it finishes.

I don't understand the problem with the item drawers. @38:00 sounds fine. It's just a temporary loot box like from a bunker but you use it to call up your stuff. I really don't see a huge difference, unless there's like a 30 second wait time.... Also i feel like this can help performance. Right now in game i can push one button and access a big database of all my stuff. Then i can spam the replication layer by quickly yanking 47 weapons from the database into the server simulation. That can't be good for server fps.

To your point on ship prices closer to the end of the video, with myself primarily just doing trading, and not efficiently at that, I reached a type 9 heavy in elite dangerous in maybe 60 hours, probably a bit less. With the kind of rates they're talking about, you would be reaching mid to low tier cargo ships at that point here, which seems to be pretty slow imo.

So, if a c2 takes 5 hrs (+ / - ), then how long does a hull c load/unload? If it is faster, then that's kinda awkward. In current 3.23, it is probably faster at the moment. But IDK, cuz I don't own one.

I did like the example that "for the reward of the one cargo mission you can buy 1 backpack" I think this is a perfect way to think of the economy in star citizen, in that, is the problem that the mission reward is to low value or is the backpack to expensive? I feel like the mission reward is good to maybe to high even. I think a backpack should be brought down to a more "real" cost of like 100-200 uec, drinks are currently what 5-10 uec. that is very close to a "real" world equivalent. To the "reward" of a delivery mission, it should be low for most small low risk common item missions. why would you make more uec for delivering something then the something is worth? If I am delivering 10,000 bottles of drinks to cru-l1 for the shops to sell at 10 uec each, what should my reward be? they sell all them for a total of 100,000 but paid the guy from orison 5 uec per bottle, the shop keep needs to make something so how much of the 50,000 uec profit goes to you the delivery guy? you are not the owner of the product or selling the product, just a lonely delivery boy. in the real world does the the truck driver who is taking a load to the grocery store, is he making 1000$ on that one store delivery? no he is likely paid hourly and make 50$ on that delivery depending on distance and time, maybe he has to stop at 5 store that one day and at the end of the day made 240$. He may own his truck but not the product in the trailer, or even the trailer, he is just the driver. They are not buying a backpack and a full set of body armor in one store delivery or even one day. I get that SC is a game and should be fun and not an unbearable grind, but if everything can be bought day one from one salvage mission, what will keep us playing. they need to start testing how much an item cost and how much you make from everything, how much to rearm your ship, how much to repair. does it suck that in the end the game is pay to win with mining and salvage ships? Yes, but that should not just make it so the rest of the game is garbage and everyone is told "just go the the site and buy a vulture". I think all prices of goods need to be re-alined before 1.0, will it feel a bit bad at the moment? yes but not everything can stay in this holding pattern of "alpha, bugs kill me, and so on". yes today salvage is profitable but if the dynamic economy works one day, and it says we have 1,000,000,000 scu of rmc and no one is buying it from the stations, the station then don't buy any more or only offer to buy for 1 auc, then the rmc that you are collecting is effectively worthless.

I can MOVE a 32 SCU box as Quick as I can move a 2SCU box..logical

The problem isn't so much "Why would I do this mission if I could do this?" (referring to payouts). I'm more concerned with CIG indicating that this is the type of payout they want for missions in the future and we'll bring things more inline with this... i.e. three years to earn a C2 in game assuming daily operating costs don't go up much in the following years. This is also in line with the risky longer mission example they showed later so it's not just the "brain dead" "first ever" mission.

If I had some noodles, would you want some?

i’ll be real, i missed ya mike

Guys, did You start playing games yesterday? People are always going to be stupid. Its a game dev's job to figure out how to prevent people's stupidity from ruining everyone's day.

The auto loading and unloading is indeed to long. Rather pay a bit of money and load faster. It may take a bit of time to load but it must be as fast as you do it by hand. A npc must be as fast as a none npc, inwould hire 10 to wait less.. it is a replacement human after all. A hand load you save money and a auto load cost money, like the in real world.

Drake Mule Best in Show 2954!!!!!!!!!

With the Subject of A sell Console being in the hanger... What if there was a substantial fee to sell at one? In lore it could be the hanger company "A" wanting a cut of the sale (think Apple) and a player would make more UeC if they sold at the City console.

All mission types need to be toned down (including combat). The trick will be to pay the solo hauler enough money to incentivize hiring escorts (mult-player). If combat missions continue to pay high rewards what is their incentive to take a escort mission.

Mike you literally read my mind when you said Don't be stupid realize what's fun rather than trying to make it realistic and then scale it back. Some things I get it but if you do that for everything then you are literally wasting developer time and drawing out the time it takes to complete the game. For no reason! Fine we interact with the bank and it opens our old inventory. No need for more steps. Stop wasting everyone including their own developers time! 100%

I'm not okay with the cheapest Connie taking 2 hours a day for 3 months (184 hours) to earn in game when it represents something like 6~7 hours of time for the average person in real life. You guys still want ships to be the most meaningful thing in the game when this clearly can't be how it works... simply because of the monetization method CIG went with. We have to have different things that are meaningful to grind for. Ships also represent blockers preventing you from participating in gameplay loops so most of them can't take many weeks to earn. I'm not going to try to explain to friends who want to spend $60 on the game that earning a C2 is going to take 432 hours of grinding to earn. (This number is calculated based on the example that a Connie Taurus will two hours a day for three months.) Now don't get me wrong I certainly want some things that take 432 hours to earn in game even if they are just hanger decorations but not ships or anything you can purchase on the website. That would be completely inexcusable.

Such idiocy in these conversations its kinda funny. You debate how long it would take for one NPC to load a ship. All the while we get huge ships, nobody talks about more than 1 NPC loading the ship...

Stealing cargo and trying to sell it is bullshit "ILLEGAL OR UNREGISTERED CARGO" dumb. I broke in to a ship, took some drugs and that's the message I got everywhere I went.

Love answer the call Hate SC “development”

Mike, could you please SHUT THE Front door about P2W? How do you win an open-world MMO? What is Star Citizen’s endgame?

5 hrs is realistic this isn’t cargo citizen

Saying that simple mission will be combat free is stupid. The pvp players and griefers will jump on the people doing these.

Mike has a very high opinion of his opinion.