It depends highly on the rest of the system. If the rest is full with connectors, lesser grade wires, lower quality solder, then it might be even disappointing not to use a binding post, as most commercial amps expect that extra resistance and smearing that to be in the signal path, and you might start hearing the high frequency issues of the amplifier even more. However, when the system is free from such issues, it is a massive gain. As big as the difference between a poor speaker cable and a good speaker cable. The difference will come mainly in the form of the system being able to reproduce extremely low level signals, that leads to emotional impact appearing & becoming much more powerful. In summary, if the amp / system can resolve extremely low level details, then it's vital to have as direct path between amp and driver as possible. If it has trouble with low levels, then opening a direct path for the signal level will just allow all the noise to come through that resides in that region, and will make sound likely feel as "unstable", edgy, not settled.

Cool story dude👍

@@EddyTeetree You are so very welcomed sir

Hi Lou, just ran across this older video of mine, and noticed that my response is missing from your comment... indeed, I myself am not safe from the ravages of YT random censorship.

Thank you! ✨✨👍 Cheers, Janos

Thank you Nick, LOL! :)

Thank you James! My observation is that no component lives in a vacuum, and we cannot talk about them without knowing how to match them optimally.. a lot of advice on that in the past & future videos .. ;

Cheers, getting humid here too! :) Normally humidity is about 60% here, but September / October it gets a lot more humid. Can feel it building up this week... ; )

Glad to hear your report on the Nenuphar Mini! I also have a similar experience, the Fc8 is a very neutral and natural sounding diver.

You are welcome!

Many single driver speakers start rolling off below 150Hz or so, so that can be a valid compromise to turn them back into 2 way with a sub. Another option is to dig deeper into the single driver field and find the ones that work in the bass region as well. Of note, it all hinges on tastes. When one needs midbass to dominate the sound, then sub is a must. Another case where you need a sub to supplement is when one listens excessively loud. If you look for a balanced sound, a sub will always be usually quite inferior choice to a very good single driver. As Frank said, things need to be experienced, and one of these things is good single driver bass. The bass quality, coherence and its texture can be extraordinary because there's no gimmicking with crossovers and different sources...

For OB very had to get anything below 40Hz... yet, 40+Hz is much better than anything with box cabinets. It's like having two courses of fine food (upper and midbass), versus having three mediocre courses (upper, mid and low bass) with traditional cabinets. Neither is perfect, just a choice whether we go for a narrower selection of delights, or a full range of meh. ; ).

@@realworldaudio Well said!

Cheers Ed, thank you for tuning in!!!! 👍👍✨✨✨✨😎😎🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼

@@realworldaudio 🌃👏👏👏thank you Janos 😊

So well said! 🎶🎶 Have fun & good luck with your project!! I'm curious how it turns out!

I made mine with 10" PRV full range drivers(100dB) in 1.8cf boxes from a thrift store, total cost $170. Pleasure unlimited.

I share that with you .......

Drums and organs are acoustic instruments that can produce frequencies lower than 40 cycles. For most music it's not really necessary.

@@westelaudio943 hi can u site a reference for that? I did some research and found the double bass analogy so I’d be interested to know more. Thanks 😊

@@frankgeeraerts6243 😊

Thank you for the feedback! 👍✨

Thank you ! ;

Folding a horn increases the time for the bass to reach the ear, hence the slowing. The Voigt pipes also do it to a certain extent, but not as much as a long horn, the delay is not bothersome.

My grandfather was an exceptional classical musician with absolute hearing. All he could stand listening to was his portable Blaupunkt radio with a single 3in driver.... everything else had tonal issues to his ears.

So true! Same thing happened to me, there's no going back... the only exception being the Voice of Lancelot. However, I still have all my single driver speakers, they are not going anywhere!

✨✨✨✨👍👍👍👍👍👍

Hello Lars, that is one dream of mine, to make / hear them with different luthier woods. The luthuier grade spruce has the ability to transmit the widest range of frequencies, all other wood will sound more colored / with stronger personality in comparison. However, I found that all wood cabinets have their own beauty in sound. Cheers, Janos

The biggest difference is that for panels you need a high current / high power amplifier, while for single driver OBs a low power tube amp is the way to go. You get very different synergies with these solutions. I would say choose according to your favorite amplification method. ;

Do you like open baffle speakers like Pure Audio project Duet Prelude?

@@klepp19 worth checking. Steve Guttenberg made that his reference

LOL, I made a series of videos on that... YES, resounding YES for Voigt pipes as first speaker project.

Any of the Cube Audios would be of the highest level, and superb match. Sonidos as well I suspect. ; ). The CA Fc8 that I use in my Voigt pipe cabinet (I made the plans available in previous videos) would be a superb match. ;

Did you ever tried Jordan Eikona 2 drivers?

I have not come across any of the Omegas... my advice would be to go for the DIY route, it gives you so much more flexibility and options to fine tune to your taste and system. With commercial speakers, it's always an issue to modify them as it ruins resale value. Yet, without mods, you will have only a fraction of their potential.

@@realworldaudio Thanks for that excellent advice. 👍That makes perfect sense.

Hi, sorry to bother, just found your comment and I am testing a pair of Ogys right now, but having trouble with bass, almost no bass. Did your bass took some hours/ days to show up or was is there from the very first moment? Wondering if my room is the issue. Thank you. Hope you are enjoying your speakers

@@Thiago_S.. The bass is light like any bookshelf speaker. Thanks . I am using my pair for hours every day.

Thank you. I am comparing them with my current bokshelf speakers and am no bass head. I will keeo playing and see what happens. Otherwise they are really delightful

@@Thiago_S.. So my reference was the Klipsch RP600M which I didn’t like. The bass in the OGY extends lower and sounds tighter. I will say that the Tripath TA2024 amp I had prior didn’t output much bass with the OGY. The Continental Edison PA9109 40W A/B amp from 1979 brought the speakers alive with more bass and more focused treble. Tube amplifiers are generally recommended with OGY and you’ll get richer bass from that as well but at what cost? Likely 1000~2500€ for a good model on the used market. Vintage transistor amps can be found under 100€ and fixed for about 100€.

@@user-xg6zz8qs3q thank you for the detailed answer, really apprecciate it and it is very interesting to know. I use a dynaudio x14 with reworked crossover as basis for comparison. The bass seems to be slowly improving, I am using a test tone app to check that. Right now I have a class A single ended 8 watts solid state amp with the ogy, but will try later a class A/B70w that I have to see if bass improves or what happens, thanks!

They have similar ideas posted on KZfaq. Apparently it's big in Asia. The only time I've ever seen smaller drivers truly handle bass properly was a transmission designed in closure. Transmission line is basically a point source coming out the enclosure like an instrument to energize the room that gives the Bass wave a better way to open up. I believe they open on a 1/4 wave which sounds full but not exaggerated I suppose a speaker (or speakers) with a big enough surface area and proper x mas could do it as well. Takes WAY more to energize the room with open baffle butt speakers in a ported box isn't going to give me what I want.

Indeed, the electrolytic caps sound warmer than film caps in crossover use. Especially with solid state amplifiers, they can really take off the edge off harshness. 👍🎶 Sometimes you need an electrolytic in the corssover. When I had my Zenith open baffle, I was running the 12in woofer full range, and the 4in paper tweeter with a first order highpass using a single electrolytic. It was an ancient sprague atom that was the original crossover from 1957. I tried everything, all kinds of film caps, but nothing sounded even remotely close! (Everything was brittle and harsh). While there are trends, indeed, in cases there are different solutions.. ; )

Yes, about a dozen or so already ;) >

It 100% depends on the taste of the individual. Some demand DSP for an acceptable experience, others are totally shut off by it. Some due to what they hear even when they are not told what is the equipment playing, others due to their preconceptions after seeing the gear are flying off their preconceptions written in hard stone. OB single driver is a very hard call because OB does not support midbass and low bass response, it starts to have troubles below 200Hz regardless the drivers. Wide range is only possible with two drivers, let's say a main wide range and a helper woofer EQ-d many dB higher to support the bass. That being said, I ran my OB with the Zenith 12in CZ series wide band driver & supplemented above 15kHz by its complementary tweeter, and it produced the most exciting and engaging rock music I had the fortune to hear. King Crimson never sounded so good (dynamic, heartfelt, punchy and just a KILLER) as that OB with 6AQ5 SE amplifier pumping out 1.5W peak per channel. While we have an astonishing propensity to totally obsess about the extremes, there is a disparaging lack of interest in the midrange, which is the most important aspect of the sound spectrum. And there, single drivers offer certain advantages that multi drivers cannot match. It all comes down to level of execution as well (a banged up budget singe driver will have a deplorable midrange compared to a well-designed 2 way speaker). Yet, keeping budget comparisons fair and matching up same weight & same level of execution players against each other, then multi drivers will ALWAYS win at the extremes & playing super loud, and single drivers will always butcher them in the midrange and playing at normal volumes.

@@realworldaudio Thanks, i am sure i will try a single driver speaker as i have good memories at a show with a smaller room and your comments and youtube videos confirm that experience. Not a combination of OB and single driver but many thanks.

@@GentielioGaming You could look at glowinthedarkaudio.com for single driver speakers, mostly OB, and what are his thoughts on them. I have several videos on Voigt pipes, which are super easy to build yet have very high potential.

I am not set up to build to sell... BTW shipping from Hawaii would be a true killer, LOL. I made the plans available though! ; ) .. Thank you for asking! Cheers, Janos

Hi William, I'm there with you, when a system can reproduce the range of a cello, then it has the most important aspects down (at least for me). ✨

Car audio is a whole different animal. Coaxial car speakers are often thought of as 'better sounding' because they exaggerate the treble more than stock speakers. From a standpoint of true high fidelity there is nothing at all to like about most coaxial car speakers and their resonating plastic tweeter with a single capacitor on them.

@@westelaudio943 No, it's because full range speakers sound muddy and cheap, as I've already said. Single cone speaker are good for diy, I can appreciate their simplicity, i.e you don't have to design a crossover for the mess you have likely created, that's about it.

@@johnshaw359 So, does your coaxial car speaker have a real crossover, consisting of inductors, capacitors, AND resistors? If yes, it _might_ be a fantastic speaker, though it will never sound up to it's full potential in a plastic car door panel. If not, and there's just a single capacitor, then you've got nothing but a 'boom-ts' machine with extremely pronounced treble and poor midrange full of resonances and other non linearities,and what you call 'cheap, muddy' is actually the more natural sound. Full range speakers have some drawbacks which might be more apparent in the automotive setting that is their beamy treble and Doppler effect distortion at high volumes. Those problems can be overcome in home audio. Full range speaker drivers also make excellent mid-treble drivers in tweeterless two-way designs which gets rid of the Doppler effect while maintaining the point source where it is most important. They are excellent as pure midranges as well. There are also many types of full range drivers from cheap and nasty over inexpensive and good to very expensive and great.

@@westelaudio943 I need more than 12khz so no. Unless Tannoy DC no thanks. As I said "phase coherence might be their only advantage".

Car audio is a very special beast... the change from single driver to coaxial was focused on how to get louder output. It was a complete success, coax drivers can put out vastly higher SPLs compared to single drivers. In my case, I went from coax car speaker to single driver. I lost the ability to blast music when driving on the highway with 80-90dB ambient highway noise, or even higher when the windows are down. Instead, I drive on highways with noise protection headphones to save my hearing for delicate moments and old age. On the other hand, when parked or waiting at the red light, or city traffic I get to enjoy Claudio Arrau's piano play. With coax - after a few notes I wanted to dive for the off button. Horses for courses.

Hi James, that driver is beloved by many audiophiles yet I have not heard it, so I have not direct comparison. What I heard of it though, I suspect that the CA is much superior to it in every aspect.

@@realworldaudio I have a pair of Alpaires in KJF audio's Super Pencil enclosures. The attributes you describe fit my experience. I also have 12" Audio Nirvana Classic Alnico drivers in another set of enclosures. Contrary to the Alpairs, these are quite beamy and bright above 1200hz. Can you discuss the impact of cone geometry on dispersion?

@@jamesderby4522 Hi James, I will get into the effects of cone geometry! I have already made a video on the effect of whizzer cone geometry that's coming out shortly, but more will follow... ;)

Same here! :)

Actually, it is possible. It requires a very strong motor, and careful implementation. Single drivers employ extremely strong motors, while the majority of multi drivers use very puny motors in comparison. Car analogy: a single driver is being driven by a 1000HP engine, while multi driver speakers are like 200HP engine for woofer, 100HP for mids and another 100HP tweeter... maybe 800HP tweeter for high tech, but even the best woofers fail to reach 500HP. While most single drivers excel at the midrange only, and are just good at the extremes, some can really stretch the envelope. The Cube Audio Fc8 in the Voigt pipe cabinet has 25Hz-19kHz under control. To such a degree that it schools even very good subwoofers, and the top extension truly embarrasses about 99% of all tweeters. And that coming without crossover and single point source. A very different playing field from multi drivers. There's a lot more to it.... Just imagine: the Fc8 has 2T in the voice coil gap - such flux density for producing bass!!! When we have a dedicated woofer, they have nowhere 2T strength.... so do not let the single cone fool you, you are dealing with one of the strongest loudspeaker motors ever built in the Fc8.

@@realworldaudio its one of my dreams to own a Nenuphar driver and so I can listen to Thomas Anders ALL day 😀

1modernthinking1.............judgement & prejudice ... without experience and knowledge is the brainchild of this time ......

Every speaker driver produces different frequencies. Just like a microphone or your eardrums can pick up hundreds of frequencies with a single diaphragm surface at the same time. The key is _the sum_ of all those frequencies.

that is what zu audio basically does its a great idea

Adding a bass driver to a full range doing mids and high is an old, well established trick. Check out the Acoustic Research AR-1 - from 1954. Though I think the crossover frequency was somewhat higher, around 500 cycles or something. Adding a super tweeter is also not that uncommon, though I think it often does more harm than good (comb filtering). The required distance between the midrange and the tweeter to maintain phase coherency is reverse proportional to the crossover point, and it's almost impossible to do at 10kHz.

@@westelaudio943 no actually it's the opposite that makes the zu audio speakers good. The woofer is doing bass mids and some highs with the super tweeter being crossed over to just the highs. This allows the crossover to be very minimal and thus you can use fewer parts and just add a filter to send the highs to the super tweeter. Because the woofer is doing almost everything the sound is very coherent. The woofer is in its happy place and the magic happens. In the opposite way having the woofer handle mids and highs while adding a bass driver you may get better extension but worse sound. Woofers don't usually do well on highs the bigger they are. The highs will tend to beam more and you lose sparkle. Also the crossover becomes more complex. And to make it high quality you need more money.

@@westelaudio943 Thanks. I actually owned (inherited) a pair of AR 2A and 2AX while I was in college. I understand the challenge with comb filtering but I suspect it’s more theoretical than practical. More than one full range enthusiast has happily mated a small ribbon with the full range.

@@V1ralB1ack Sorry, the full range is doing mids and highs of course. I think you misread my sentence or it was too ambiguous. It uses a 12" woofer which Henry Kloss designed himself, in the first proper sealed (acoustic suspension) cabinet. Mids and treble are done by an Altec 755a full-range.

There is no theoretical limit to how many frequencies a single driver can play at the same time. There are some practical challenges, though, like cone break up (a cone moving uniformly at lower frequencies will start to wobble at some point because of it's inertia) but that can be overcome by damping those break up modes as good as possible and adding a whizzer cone, the little 'trumpet' shaped thing in the center of many larger full range drivers, giving the treble a stiff surface to radiate from.

I got to make a video of a particular experience... will come shortly to illustrate. ✨✨✨✨👍👍

LOL, I only listen to her and other typical audiofile courses when friends put them on in audio get togethers! :) My license should be taken away as well. ✨✨👍👍 Cheers, Janos

So true, above 85-90dB or so, single drivers, even the best start to show distortion in the high frequency. Even the ones without whizzer cones.... ;) Average levels or quiet listening, I often find myself in a blissful state with them.

@@realworldaudio We may have developed extra sensitivity for anomalies when committing ourselves to the small amplifier and analytical filter less speakers 😊 I am shocked about the HiFi-industry’s proclivity to favour complex solutions. A sure way to forever search the way out of the audio equivalent of the Minos cave. I do however like the red thread you supply for the soon-to-be initiated.

@@HansJonsson1235 Thank you Hans!! ✨✨👍 I think the industry is fixated on complexity because it's better for the sales. While they are pushing the loudness wars, most people in fact wants to listen at normal volumes... (with a few notable exceptions who want 100+dB SPL, but those are not the bulk of adiophiles, yet the exception). Only going crazy loud needs complexity.... while normal levels benefit tremendously from simplicity. Also, with simplicity one can soon find a balanced system that stops the upgrade / purchase itch. While with complexity you never reach absolute satisfaction... extreme SPL by default forbids the mind peace and comfort....

I have many recordings up on the channel already. Here's one with the Fc8-Voigt pipe: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/htugjLuYvZzXmGg.html

Voigt pipes LOVE super tall and deep rooms. My friends pipes with his 4in Fostex drivers are quite amazing with their purity and soaring clarity with high lofty high ceiling, driven by Yamamoto SET (type 45 triodes). The only caveat is that he listens to quiet / moderate volumes at most. My pipes played as loud as I ever wanted to play them in my 4.5m x 10m x 2.5m room. Which is, live feeling grand piano, very good orchestra (similar to 8th row real orchestra volume), and jazz (such as Jazz at the Pawnshop) at 3-5dB quieter than a jazz club. So, if you listen super loud, the 8in driver will not be enough. If you want to have live concert feel, Voigt pipe with the 8in driver will get you that but at a little more modest volume than the real thing (3-6dB quieter), although to tell the truth I welcome that as I can listen louder, and often find a live jazz club just a little too loud and fatiguing. And, if you listen quietly, then Voigt pipes with even smaller drivers than 8in will work, but I know only very few friends who are happy playing at such low volumes. Although I certainly listen louder than that, but also quieter, and when I'm listening to his system in his room I need no higher volumes. Just the knowledge, that you can crank the volume when you feel like, might be a good idea. For those cases the Cube Audio Fc8 will be the one that can play at the highest volume of all 8in suitable drivers. It is very expensive, but you will get a loudspeaker that would set you back 50-100K$ if you wanted to buy something commercial playing at that level. You likely will not need the sub either. (In your room it will play to 20Hz ; ). You will need the sub only if you want to play heavy deep bass very loud.... like a rave party, but for everything else the pipes with Fc8 will take care of everything.

Hi Thomas thanks for the prompt and detailed reply. I will investigate the options and see if the suggested drivers would fit my self funded retiree budget.@@realworldaudio

@@whoisjohngalt-hg5us You will have a great time with the project, and all I can say is that whichever driver you pick all of them are quite fantastic! The Cube Audio Fc8 is in a class of its own, but all the others are quite superb still. Cheers, Janos. (Thomas is at Thomas & stereo channel, this video was an answer to one of his videos ; ).

@@realworldaudio oops sorry my bad must have been looking at his name

@@whoisjohngalt-hg5usNo worries ; )