Just a fun thought. I think, that Mr.Door broke the fourth wall when he said to Wake "There are so many people helping you. Armies of people". Because in my opinion he ment all of us gamers trying to help Alan to get through

To rocketman's question the cult stole a bunch of papers from the fbc one detailed out the use of the clicker by Alan to beat Barbara/ dark presence. I believe it was mentioned at the end of the game.

So if Saga is Door/Hatch's child does that make her the prime Threshold Kid

I think Saga 100% was born with powers. Along with others that we dont know yet. The seer powers come from her mother's side as it is implied that her mother has them too or knows about them since she tried very hard to make Saga think her mind place was bs. Also in relation to Door. There are no records of him existing in Saga's universe. People have seen him around, but Tim couldnt find any mention of him on govt records. So i think thst means he's from a different universe.

Maybe some day we get ”Alan Wake 0” which focuses on Thomas Zane.

Okay, so... I have a question about Rose Marigold. She is well aware of what is happening, at first she tries to deny it but ends up recognizing Saga as the Hero during the boss fight against Cynthia Weaver. She also helps Alan escape Scratch, claiming that she has been receiving messages from him and acting on his behalf for three years. Alan doesn't remember sending her messages. Who could be sending these messages to Rose? Alice maybe? Alan at another point in the timeline? The fact that she had a manuscript gave more weight to her claims. Also, the way she disappears seems really strange, it's like she actually has some knowledge of what's really going on... at least that's how I see things

Actually all 3 poems that we saw during the game are written on the plot board in the Alan's room. It can be seen by playing audio of pretty much every page of Return while playing for Saga.

I’d like to think that when tor and odin went into the lake at the end they came back to the dark place prior to Herald of Darkness performance and helped Alan. And in the dark place they are young and kicking ass again.

Door and the Andersons had a big fight, there Tor sent Door to the Dark Place by striking him down with a lightning, xD Door took Odin's eye as well. What a messy family. However, as we see at the late night show, them three were collaborators or even friends at some point. I guess that is what made it awkward when Door got involved with Freya.

*i just finished it. I can't wait for them to release DLC for this game! I want more reasons to play this game! I really wish they would add the messing with objects (like in control) There's so much environmental detail. I'd just like to be able to mess with stuff even if it's meaningless. I'd like more detective evidence work. I'm just dying to have more to play and i hope they keep putting out quality content for this game to play with different game modes that will add fun replayability at least in certain modes? I can't even explain how much of a masterpiece this game is. People need to support these devs so they can make as many projects as they want because no one has done what they have, to the level & quality & rawness that they were willing to do here. They pulled no punches, they went all out, not afraid to show the gruesome and real sides of true crime. The nature, environments feel real you get lost into them. I live in the PNW and i legit feel like I'm hiking in areas I've been to. It's unbelievable how amazing it is! It's more than i could have ever dreamed of when i tried to consider a Alan Wake 2. These devs are SO TALENTED! I hope to see more from them. I bought the edition that comes with the 2 DLC packs. I hope they just keep adding unique game modes that add a layer of fun gameplay mechanics replay abilities that isn't just playing the main story over again

Saga got her seer powers from the Andersons. Her mother got it from Tor and Odin. It’s implied a little in her Dark Place section that she also has some ability to navigate the Dark Place that she inherited from Door, cause she follows the same path he took in the page she read. It’s literally like he was showing her the way she should walk and she could do it cause she’s his daughter.

Wasn't there explicit references to the clicker as an OOP in Control? And Saga's mind place literally tells you that the cult got their info from papers stolen from the FBC, and they were hijacking the FBC alert station to figure out when the taken would appear from the lake?. And Sam Lake said he's been relying on fan wikis not an internal one.

Amazing video as ever! Quick question that I’ve not seen answered. The first time that you enter the Bright Falls police station as saga you can go to the holding cells and find a man in the cell that Alan later resides in who is purposively facing away from the camera and wearing a hat but does look (to me at least) like Alan Wake. Has this been noticed by others and is there a possibility that this could be some version of Alan/scratch from a previous cycle/spiral?

Answering Alan Wake 2 questions. You've definitely found a growth industry! :D

I liked this method in the videos... choosing questions and answering them from each person’s perspective. Matt, I think you need to case board like Saga lol... amazing video, thank you all ''when the bright falls, the night springs forth''... I'm so excited for NG+ and DLC's

I think the most interesting aspect to this game for me is the fact that it has kept me coming back for more and more contemplation. I don't think a day has gone by since I finished it a couple weeks ago where I didn't think about something related to the grand scheme of things. I played it once, and watched two play throughs, and each time I experienced the story I learned more. I wouldn't worry too much about the notion of leaving a conversation like this with more questions than answers. It's all about food for thought. We have a pretty solid idea of what this game is, but there are still many mysteries to unravel - and that's part of the fun. As you guys mentioned near the end: We're meant to be having fun with it. Remedy knows that the community likes to talk about their games, try to figure them out, etc. And they have the patience and respect to make sure what they build in these games is something that can be engaged with meaningfully on many levels. I'm utterly thrilled to be able to play this game at launch, and its release has made me retroactively much more appreciative of getting to play the first Alan Wake game over a decade ago. I agree with Deep Dives, I think Alan Wake 2 deserves Game of the Year - amidst a sea of fantastic games this year. I went on to TGA's site and voted as honestly as I could, and I think every time AW2 was an option, I ended up picking it, though I did weigh it against other games in the categories. I'm sure there's some cognitive bias, given my enjoyment of horror in general, and psychological horror in particular - and my absolute love of the inspirations to Alan Wake (Twin Peaks, True Detective, House of Leaves, to name a few), but even trying to step out of the thematic beauty, I think this game is still rock solid as a concept, introduces some very interesting and adventurous new gameplay mechanics, and does something that most survival horror games haven't dared to do in a while: branch out and try to make something worth grappling with.

I’ll be pumped if Chester Bless turns out to be played by Dominic Monaghan! Seeing as they brought back other actors from Quantum Break

Here is a question if you guys do a part 3 of these Are Thor and Odin Anderson just Parautalitarians or actual gods? I personally lean towards the latter because in the Valhala Nursing home in Odins Room you can find a note where he details events from his life and the first entry is dated before time and it refrences the Norse myth where Odin drank from the well of Mimir to gain knowledge of how to overcome his fate at ragnarok. This is Remedy so it could just be a cryptic methaphor for us to interpit as we see fit but its defentley something to chew on

If Door is Martin Hatch and went through a lot before being able to contol his shifter powers, perhaps Tim is Jack Joyce on the journey to becomming a shifter like with Martin due to his Cronon syndrome. And Door's trying to help him along the journey. Or some analog of that in these alternative characters? Hatch in QB wanted to have the end of time not just for him but for other shifters he sympathised with - so he could be helping him out of kinship?

There is a document in Control detailing a data breach in FBC security. Files were stolen, and one of the people who was found to have stolen the data was someone named Jaako Saarinen. Is this Jaako from Alan Wake 2, or someone else who just shares his first name?

I’ve got something that I’m sad and surprised nobody has really brought up yet. The Remedy Verse is the dream of the dreaming god head Sam Lake. Sam is LITERALLY on the talk show, Door asks him if he has anything to add and Sam is just like “I don’t think I do. Let the show go on.” I don’t think the story will close back into a loop. Thomas Zane, Alan Wake, they’re all the creative spiral of Sam Lake.

Interesting that Alan Wake was one of the 7 candidates for Director of the FBC before he vanished in Alan Wake 1

Hi guys another great Q&A podcast. I like them a lot. Im sticking so far to my theory i commented last Q&A about Tom being the mastermind, Alan being a story made by Tom, coming alive by the lake, dark place being Tom's brainstorming the story. and being the ending Alan fighting Tom for his freedom and right to write his own story. the multiple layers are the stories being writen by Alan, Tom, Scratch, at the same time where Stratch as I said is Alan when Tom changed Alan for an alternative character on the story and became alive as Alan did by the lake. Anyway, if my theory is correct, the other characters like door are trying to get freed from Tom's hands in the story. I feel Tom is regarded in the shadows on purpose, he said to Alan, the diver was a character i played, I don't think he was the dark presence but the dark place which it is actually his own mind. There is a battle between the characters who came alive by the lake and the story Tom tries to take back control of... But anyways. Watching Saga and Alec drinking coffee at the same time shows me that they are just characters in a story, that is not an action happening in the real world. The fact everyone appears coming in the town driving in...but never leaving it... like they can't leave it.... shows me its a story in that town not an actual place in the ordinary world. Idk....

If you recall, Alan received a call from someone he thought was Zane but was just alan from a different point in the story. So time travel in the dark place doesn't seem too far off.

Love these discussions. Now can we have a video solely on "Nightless Night" - I have tons of questions/thoughts about it.

I definitely agree with your process at the end, where its really hard to answer questions without ending up with more. Until we have all of the game mapped out and fully documented, its so easy to forget things youve experienced in the game, things youve seen and explinations given. I cant wait for all the info to stick and allow for better theory crafting to come out of it.

So my thing with Mr. Door is that he’s not a native of The Dark Place, he just chose to go there because it’s the ultimate nexus point, according to him it “Reflects all possible realities.” (Also the fact that he uses the term Threshold when referring to barriers between realities? GAH!) Like to me, The Dark Place is just where he’s the MOST powerful, it’s why he seeked out Cauldron Lake and possibly why he came into conflict with the Andersons. There’s also that bit of the page where he “allows the writer to dictate and influence his movements, just this once” which is FASCINATING to me, being aware of and giving permission for Alan to document his movements. Really looking forward to the Night Springs DLC in terms of the Door Lore, I feel like it’s secretly gonna be a “Foundations” equivalent in the guise of a bunch of quirky episodes.

I Love how the shadows in the darkplace are faceless Alanís, i imagine another iterations of alan lost/dead in the loop/spiral.

I'm pretty sure there is a page in the motorcycle garage that describes the cult finding and knowing about the clicker

So, I am fairly sure Thor tells Saga that her powers are passed down from his family. Like right after you save him, he tells her that he will talk to her in her mind place and goes through the whole thing there that it he can do it and her mother could do it, but her mother rejected it.

Gonna edit this as a move along the video so I don't forget anything lol I'd LOVE if Barry showed up in control2 or maybe even the multiplayer game? He'd be a great contrast to what's going on. In control Jesse knew Zane as a poet and the interviewer said he was a filmmaker also sooo.

Ilmo was connected to the FBC. Showing the guy Steven around. They had FBC docs in their HQ.

YEAH! Another Alan Wake 2 video!!

So, Martin Hatch can be seen taking Anti-Chronon sickness medication in Quantum Break in one of the sections where you're inside Monarch, as there's a pill bottle left on the desk and Hatch's name is on it. Perhaps with the realities Door/Hatch jumps to, he must adhere to that reality's rules/power requirements??

I think the poems have to be written by Thomas Zane - the first one at Nightingale's murder site has too many references to him and that poem is essentially about Alan being stuck in the darkness spiral - exactly like what happens - think about what Nightless Night (the movie) is about - a person is sacrificed and locked in the dark place so another person can escape in their place - alan is his replacement to let him escape

Great podcast!!! I am only about 7 hours in - luv the commentary and gave me alot to think about!

I have a theory that the Diver Zane is just a future version of Alan donning the suit in order to dump exposition. As he said in that one phonecall: his own deus ex machina.

The whole RCU is building up to ragnarok, which will hopefully be a 2 player coop game with Jesse and Alan.

I think it’s interesting to note that in one of the live action sequences with Mr. Door, when they have the actor for Alex Casey there, the directly name the actor by Sam Lake, the real life person. That may imply that the real life actors are connected through the RCU (Sheriff Breaker - Jack Joyce, Jesse Fayden - Beth Wilder, etc). This may help support the claim to the other Remedy games and the things not only Breaker has said about meeting himself in other dimensions, but also Beth Wilder had a note about meeting herself in a different timeline, but it wasn’t really her. Then I’m Control, there is a picture of Jesse sitting with a women that looks exactly like Beth Wilder

the Old Gods of Asgard already made amends/started to make amends with Door... after the lakeside summoning when they went into the lake for their "next gig" they ended up at Door's talkshow as the house band, therefore helping Alan and also Saga. Time travel is wonky. Also, Door probably has several goals/plans, but I think he wanted Saga to awaken her powers, so it added incentive to play along and "indulge" Alan. Plus he generally seems to want realities to not fall apart? (based on Dylan's anecdote about him) so perhaps helping Alan works for him at the moment.

Cool thing I noticed in Control there's a room number above security door you have to get into and it reads 665. Which is the same code you use to get into a door in Alan wake 2 lol. Prob just a coincidence but pretty cool. Just like the hedron Polaris os kept in and used in quantum break

the cult got the knowledge about the clicker from the manuscript pages they are said to worship Alan's writing and they had pages. That's how it is hinted at in the game so far.

I assume the Andersons had their power inherently as Gods, considering their names and roles. Drinking the moonshine from the lake is like taking a drug or something, since Alan also gets more information when he drinks the moonshine in Alan Wake 1. This makes the most sense to me too, why Saga is a Seer. She's also somehow outside of the story without ever consuming any of the moonshine, presumably because she is a Seer. Also, I think that the reason Saga was able to escape the Dark Place so easily was because she has Door's power, she just needed the prompt from the page to understand where and how to use it. And I think Door and Hatch are exactly the same person. "A Door That Stands Between Two Rooms Is In Both. A Door That Leads Anywhere Is Everywhere." One thing I'm a bit confused about, is that Door says "and our Night Springs" when he is talking to Alan. He's clearly the announcer for the new Night Springs series as well. So is he using Alan from the Dark Place to write these Night Springs episodes or something?

in regards to the discussion on zane at 27 minutes or so: i don't get the idea this is a Zane that wants to actually escape but rather it's whatever Zane is, playing his role (as Door says to Alan) in order to guide Alan through the spiral to ascension/understanding/escaping. Considering Alan and Scratch are basically the same being, the idea that Zane was working with a second person when Alan left was slightly absurd to me; in no way would Zane be forced to do anything, and "Scratch left me behind" but time is not moving on a linear path in the Dark Place, no one is anywhere at any given moment. Plus, that video showing Zane wiping the blood from his forehead and saying "now THAT is drama" really seals the deal on it just being another part in the journey of Alan, regardless of whatever or whoever Zane is. He's playing his part in the story like everyone else to get Alan to the next step.

At first I got SUPER upset that SPOILERS…………. Door wasn’t fully explained in Final Draft ending but once I accepted that and understood it as Remedy setting him up for the next game(s), it hit a lot better. Like once you understand that it’s not that “Door’s god and blah blah” and that’s the ending, that the ending is fully about Wake essentially becoming the bright presence, an enlightened god-like being, the ending hits SOOOO much harder. Is it upsetting that Door wasn’t elaborated on in FD? Forsure. Do I understand and fully appreciate what they were doing now? Absolutely. Playing through this game multiple times just makes you view everything and ponder everything completely different and it’s truly the most artistically sound gaming experience I’ve ever had.

35:31 If the FBC is still on lockdown, could it be an indication that Similar to Alan Wake 2, Control 2 might borrow the dual protagonist mechanic, playing as Jesse inside the Oldest House, and as Estevez on the streets of New York?

Concerning the cult using the Clicker; Illmo pretty clearly says they were around or at least knew of the 2013 incident and they knew Alan’s stories were the cause. Combine that with them saying they’ve been finding pages for years and I don’t think it’s that big a question of how they knew it was important. It seems pretty clearly implied that they (or Illmo specifically) read Departure so they knew how Alan used it on Barabara and were just copying that, cause that’s literally what they’re doing.

Ilmo mentions that he "inherited" the duty of defending the region from a previous group, which could have been the one that Frank Breaker was involved with. Perhaps Ilmo was also given some access to FBC info and terms from Frank before he passed away.

Haven't finished watching video yet, so I don't know if it got mentioned: The Your Friends Will Meet Him When You're Gone poem made out of the pages of Alex Casey books reminds me a lot of Jonathan Safran Foer's Tree of Codes. It's a book made out of the cut out pages of Bruno Schulz's The Street of Crocodiles in a very similiar the poem is "made" in Alan Wake 2.

There’s a page specifically covering how the cult knows to use the clicker for their ritual - they stole files from the FBC. Confirmed. You can find the page in the Watery lighthouse after collecting all the cult stashes.

I wonder if Tom the Poet is a companion piece to Departure, like Nightless Night to Return. That would explain that poster that says it's based on Alan's novel. But everything about Zane is too convoluted at the moment

I just came to an idea: So, in Zane's film "Yoton Yo", we see kind-of a retelling of Alan's journey along with the "It's not a loop, it's a spiral" line at the end. This leads me to believe that maybe Tom Zane knows how the end of AW2 ends, but it raises another question: "How?" A possible answer I can think of is that *this* Tom Zane isn't real, but is a manifestation brought to life by Alan or someone else. It could be future Alan, making sure that past Alan does what he needs in order for things to happen the way they should. Or it could be Alice, who is operating in pretty much the same way. Or it could be Mr. Door. If it *isn't* the real Zane, he would have been invented by someone in the story. Maybe the portion of Zane's death that was filmed was done so in the future so that it could be put into its place in the present, fulfilling his role in the story.

I'm simply here to say that Thomas Zane is 150% a good guy. Don't @ me...unless you want to than please @ me. :)

Barry will certainly be in the 3rd game just bc of the Blessed connection. I think Blessed is going to release Northmoor

Which ever way the sequel games go in this remedy-verse, I hope they keep each game in their own style and feel like distinct games. AW3 stays a survival psychological-thriller, Control is the Creepy-Pasta power fantasy, and Max Payne as the gritty-noir Action Movie; and whatever Quantum Break may become - suspense sci-fi mystery?

I'd like to view the time travel/wormhole aspect in a similar way that the show Dark did, where the three time lines were sort of three discs on top of another, and one could travel 33 years forwards or backwards as that was the difference between the three "plains" of time. Thinking of a spiral where time flows e.g. upwards, there are always three points in time aligned that overlap each other above and below

I think the Andersons powers come from their family. And whatever god they are name after they inherit that gods power.

1:28 I think they knew it bcs they got the info from the Torchbearers and it is said that the clicker was part of a cord from a Lamp i believe calls back to Tom Zane. I mean Tom Zane had to come from somewhere, if the Newspaper articles are to be believed (and I believe it bcs when you even cant trust those than everything can be all or nothing and i think thats not what they went for.) Lake said their have to be rules on how this universe operates so if you cant take nothing for granted it makes it pointless. So btw i think Tom Zane was real and Alan was pulled in bcs of the striking similarities between Tom and Alan itfp Hence why they look the same over time and the Andersons calling him Tom from the get-go. Toms backstory where he set up a artists commune also fits Hartmann setting up his "Clinic" for Artists. They all fed the Lake which feeds on Art. Oh and the Yoton Yö (Nightless Night) Film is to be believed an OOP and bcs Zane or Seine (which in german means "His") was in this Film based on Alans Novels we have an OOP in the dark place and since time does not exist there the two got intertwined. Also Alan said Zane never made it out, he of all people should know.

what brought back alan from dark place in chapter 2? the ritual or future musical performance

Cool video guys. These discussions are great. I also wondered about Hartman's goals. I thought he wanted to use Cauldron Lake's powers for himself but he doesn't seem that successful. I wonder how much he knew about the truth of what happened back then. Does he know the Dark Presence is possessing Barbara's corpse? Or does he think Barbara came back to life? Barry joining the Blessed feels like setup for a future game. He could pop up in Control 2 DLC or AW3.

It would be cool if the head of the blessed organization was a different version of Paul Serene from quantum break like with sherrif Breaker

At the very start you are introduced with wake with the light bullet hole in his head. Could it be that this already played out before and didn't work?

Something I've often wondered is whether or not the songs of The Old Gods have the same power as Alan's stories. Their songs have always been framed in AW1 and 2 as a kind of prophecy, i.e. when Alan needs guidance, he finds one of their old songs that can tell him the way. But what if it wasn't as simple as that? Are the songs seeing into the future or are they determining it, ... in the same way that Alan's stories determine the future, i.e. reality? It's similar to when characters have found a page written about themselves from Alan's manuscript, they've ultimately performed what was on the page, even if they didn't want to. Would that have STILL happened if they hadn't read the page? So when Alan listens to an Old Gods song, could the song have the same effect? Think about it: if you wrote songs about your visions, and you found that some of those songs came true, you might assume that your visions are of the future and your songs are prophecy; BUT it would still be indistinguishable from determinism. Did you get a vision of the FUTURE or of an alternate reality? Thus through the power of the lake, are you prophesying the future or asserted a new reality?

34:17 Speaking of Alan's mental state, as me being somebody 99% sure to have ADHD, i can see in Alan a lot of Neurodivergent traits when it come to his iner monologue and his writing process, hence why he gets very easily sidetracked by his intrusive thoughts/Scratch, unlike Saga who seems to behave like a neurotipical, who knows her intrusive thoughts/Other Saga are just that, intrusive thoughts that don't reflect her actual morality. That's Alan's problem and us ADHD ers, we get scared about our intrusive thoughs as being reflective of our actual morality, and we "spiral" down into Imposter Syndrome, just like Alan who's Imposter Syndrome thanks to the nature of the Dark Place is an actual Imposter taking over Alan becoming his Scratch.

This feels less like the MCU and more like the American Horror Story series recycling actors with loose tie ins here and there and much stronger correlations in other areas.

3:54 FBC documents that Saga read on the Prison agter Esteves gave her the key. The cult knew about the clicker and how to use it because they have been read FBV documents. Saga's profiling the brother on the prison when he is next to his brother body.

First question isnt tough. The game literally throws the answer in your face during the parade float. They sabatoged FBC stations and snatched documents. They are laid out all over the table in the garage. Thats how they know

Alright let me lay it out for you….I’m annoyed that you guys somehow missed SO much, but I’ll just explain it: In the game, there’s a manuscript page detailing Ilmo and Jaako finding just all the FBC documentation they could hope for. They learned what OOPs are, they learned the true nature of C Lake, the clicker, wake, Zane, everything. Things kept floating up from the lake, including the clicker. They got the clicker, and they knew to click it in the heart of the taken from wake’s writing that for years has floated up from the lake, or was just there from the 1st game (found in the manuscript pages of departure). No plot holes, no mysteries. It’s in the game, laid out as clear as day.

Door is Sagas father.

There's no question about Saga power, it's plainly said in the game that she did got it from family, the whole concept of Tor and Odin is that their family gas powers "normal people" don't have.

Was it Time Breaker who unwilling or is it Saga?

Is there any chance Door is secretly the missing Old Gods band member, Loki? I don't have any evidence. I just like the idea. Plus it explains Door's excellent singing voice.

Can someone tell me what was the background music?

Is there a reason, confirmed or speculative, as to why Melanie Liburd has engaged in what appears to be zero promotion for AW2 (critically acclaimed GOTY contender) both pre and post launch? Deafening silence.

Guys, the first problem you were struggling with was literally spelled out for you in game.. Thay've broken into FBC and found data about the clicker. It was not "piecing things together", it was "finding the one paper that just says it"... Not a good start of a lore video...

What if the natural time machine was the dark place? Lmfao. We know the dark place transcends time, maybe more smart characters can just use it willingly and it doesn't negatively effect them because they're not the part of the story? What if the dark place is some form of entity that is only evil and "dark" because Alan wrote it to be? Maybe in other universes it is more neutral, and people like Hatch were able to utilise it.

Why did Saga infer that Alan was a racist at the very end of the game?