As someone with cerebral palsy I feel that for the most part disability is represented very well in 40K. In Master of Mankind there is Dominion Zephon who is a Blood Angels captain-equivalent who lost an arm and a leg, has them replaced with bionics but the bionics don't mesh with his nerves properly. This leaves him unable to control his body the way he wants to with him having his natural reflexes for his flesh and blood limbs but his prosthetics 'betray' him by spasming and not having the same range of motion. This is exactly how I feel about my own condition because it is in essence the same thing. Half of his body is just not the same as the other half. I feel the same for Ravenor when he projects from the chair. Having that freedom while he is outside but knowing that he'll have to return to an exceptionally limiting form at the end of it all is a familiar feeling. Not to get too personal but my diagnosis didn't come until my mid 20's despite having had an advocate who knew what she was talking about taking me to the doctors since I was a few months old for things that should have really been taken more seriously than they were. As such I got to experience my mobility degrading to the point where I couldn't walk much more than 50 metres/yards without both of legs essentially painfully locking up and making me look like I was walking without any joints. While I'm not in a wheelchair so I can't speak for that side of the community I definitely can relate to the feeling of having had something and lost it and if I had the chance to briefly regain it I'd jump (figuratively) at it. Good question from Liam.

The Ravenor trilogy is my favorite Dan Abnett book series. It even tops Eisenhorn for me. I really enjoy how the crippled condition of Ravenor makes the supporting characters around him really much more important (as compared to Eisenhorn), and I very much enjoy the ensemble-style of story telling of Ravenor. Harlon Nayl, Kara Swole and Patience Keyes are three of my favorite WH40k characters. The vulnerability of Ravenor also makes him much more relatable than Eisenhorn. Finally, the story-arc of Carl Thonius is fascinating.

I’d love to see Mira and the four gamers crew playing a 40K RPG with Ian as GM :)

One of my favourite details is on Flint the oldest buildings where made from the horns of mature creatures that they hunt that will never grow that big again because of the rate at which they farm them

Dan Abnett run on Guardians of the Galaxy was amazing. Abnett is one of the top writers going today.

Mira and Ian are so likable it is crazy that they are not already a mainstream tv-show!

There is a short story that is sort of a prequel to Ravenor in which Ravenor 'finds' Patience Kys (its very grimdark). I wonder if Ian read that if he would like her more... her 'character' is to some extent a 'character' that she is projecting to hide her humanity. There is more to Kys then the 'femme fatale badass assassin' exterior. I rather wished Abnett had developed her more into a Interrogator rather than just a warrior, I think she would have made an interesting inquisitor, and as an Interrogator she'd have been even more intimidating to Thonius.

Ian's description of "lucky space" makes me think of the bit in "Mote in God's Eye" where a couple characters are waxing philosophical, and one of them points out that although the Second Empire of Man claims to rule a massive portion of the galaxy, it isn't really true. What the Empire actually controls is a series of "bubbles" surrounding stars like raisins in a muffin - and then they use FTL to jump to the next bubble, never seeing or understanding the "bread" in between.

Yall gotta read The Magos. Has Patience's back story it's very simular to Bequin 2 and makes her brief convos with her really interesting. A good bridge between Eisenhorn and Ravenor. Also just a great book with awesome characters and stories that don't seem related untill the end.

A fun fact: Here in Brazil we have a famous city called Petropolis - but is far from a "futuristic" "dystopian" - it`s the city where the royal family (the empire lasted until 1889) lived and the heirs still receive dividends for the use of various properties. Congrats Mira and Ian - your book club videos are the best!

Personally I found the Ravenor books to be the best of them all! The closest thing to Cyberpunk in the 40K universe, cursed drugs, body augmentation aplenty and so many shades of William Gibson but with that Abnett flair!

Always loved the Ravenor books. As a character, I have much more sympathy for him than Eisenhorn. Him being less xenophobic than most Imperials certainly helps

I've been looking forward to this! First off, I like to see how far these book club videos have come. I think the discussion has a much better structure than with the Eisenhorn books, well done. Ravenor is an interesting book, I think the trilogy is more 'together' than the Eisenhorn ones, better paced for sure, and although none of the characters come even close to being as compelling as Gregor, the average quality of the ensemble is much better. Ravenor himself especially is very interesting, he's like an edgy Stephen Hawking starring in a detective action story. It is very cool. I like how you want to like him, he gives every reason for you to like him, he never trespasses as deep into heresy as Gregor, but every once and a while the bitterness/creepiness that comes with being in this sorry state for decades comes in and keeps you on edge. Also, the irony of Gideon functioning like a mini pseudo-emperor is not lost on me. The villains are in my opinion also much better than in Eisenhorn, in those books, I feel like the actual events and characters of the story are just a backdrop to the arc of Gregor, here the story is much more pronounced, and it's a welcome change. It's not better or worse, but it gives the Ravenor trilogy a strong identity. Regarding some of the questions posed, I really dislike the null-blockers and another plot device that is introduced in Ravenor Returned. Contained within the Abnett books they are fine, but they take out the wind of other 40k stories, and make you wonder "well why didn't they just use blockers?". But I digress. I am looking forward to the next episode!

Listened to this as the audiobook and the narrator was really superb.

Kara Swole is by far my favorite character of the whole Eisenhorn/Ravenor/Parriah-book, followed by Harlon...and I think that he is way more complex as to be played by 'The Rock'. More Tom Hardy-type. Anyway, Kara is somehow the most 'human' of them. Oh, and I love Wystan: Most underrated :D

OMG. A new 40k Book Club with Mira! And its about Ravenor. Hell yeah.

Absolutely love Thonius, and for the exact reasons you discussed. You have an idea of what an inquisitorial agent is: grim, serious, authoritarian, intimidating. And Thonius is none of those things, BUT! He's still good at his job!

Brilliant Review. Thanks Ian and Mira. I agree that the city in this book is perfectly describes post industrial, decline and hopelessness for many. The restrictions placed on Ravenor's powers are kind of put there just so there is a plot rather than Ravenor just solving everything.

Can we please have Mira summarise all the books going forward please? that was brilliant 😂😂

Re: limiters: in these and the Bequins the concept of limiting blanks confuses. If the human default is visible to ESP (0) and psychers have ESP that can be limited (+1), blanks are effectively -1, in that they are the norm less visibility to ESP. So the limiter is adding -1 to -1, which does not equal 0. Calling it a mask would make more sense.

Thank you both so much for doing this series, it's got me back into reading black library novels especially the first couple of Horus Hersey books. What an absolute amazing episode on Ravenor!

I just wanted to write that I am new to your channel and I’m truly enjoying your videos. I have been a fan of a few other WH lore KZfaqrs and although they may be arguably more entertaining, you provide understandable information that it’s captivating. I have been an on again, off again fan of GW and WH 40k but your videos make me want to pick a chapter and totally invest

I think I’ve said it before, but I would really like to see Mira play inquisitor. Especially, I’d like to see the 40K Character she creates when given the incredible freedom that game gives you.

There's a disabled character in Dan Abnett's Double Eagle that is seen as not being capable and strong enough, who proves he can actually do more than most and proves everyone wrong for dismissing him.

I think the disability representation issue in any sci-fi setting is always made much harder due to 'future technology magics' being able to nullify most disabilities. Realistically you're only likely to encounter a character with a disability if they were also in the lower strata of society, otherwise they would have the credits to be able to have augmetics, gene-splicing, or vat-grown replacements. I remember in one of the Necromunda books there's an Escher ganger who loses an arm and it gets replaced with an augmetic by a rogue doc, but it's always causing her pain and getting infected. Maybe a good instance of representation would have her discard the arm and learn to manage with what she had, but she wasn't a main character and I don't recall what happened. Ravenor's body was so utterly broken that he is only able to function due to him being a mini-Emperor psychic encased in his own Golden Throne solely due to the unlimited resources of the Inquisition. But Black Library has a talented pool of writers so here's hoping. I love to see the two of you run an RPG, could use the Dark Heresy setting but adapt the Traveller ruleset? Or there the new Rogue Trader crpg that's been announced recently, maybe do a playalong together when that comes out?

Ravenor's Angels

Ravenor very enjoyable, Inquisitor Gideon is badass! just a husk with immense psychic ability. One of Abnetts best

Oh yes! make sure Mira reads the Magos. It might be a side story but it is a really awesome one, Valentine Drusa is one of my favorite characters. If you got the chance, start with the short story The curiosity and The Gardens of Tycho before the Magos.Would love to hear your thoughts about them too.

Karl is my favoured character in the book foppish and funny, brilliant character, very "British"

Just finished the book last night. Didn't predict the Ministerials' double cross. I'm convinced that a big part of the reason is because I couldn't help but project Dedra Meero onto Madsen, which made me treat her like a hardliner and true believer. Wonder if anyone else who's read Ravenor post-Andor had a similar experience?

I loved the Ravenor books! Although the thing is, I loved the Eisenhorn books so much that I kept wanting the Ravenor books to be Eisenhorn books. :) The Pariah books are (imo) absolutely terrific and I've been waiting for the third Bequin book with baited breath. They might be my favorite of all. Thank you for these book club videos, I enjoy them very much!

I have to say i like how Frauka's creepiness was handled somewhat ambiguously at times. Like, is he really that creepy, or is that just how people feel around him, because he's a null? And if he is all that creepy is it because he is born like that, being a null, or because he just never learned how not be creepy because people always shunned him?

16:00 old sub’s fave: “meat is hung, people are Hanged”. A priest who “got hung” risks a double entendre, ne that would substantially detract from their apparent holiness.

IIRC there is a bit where Ravenor is reflecting on why he chose Carl as his Interogator; he pretty much says he didn't need a fighter (he had fighters; Nayl, Kara, Will and later Patientce) what he needed was an intellectual peer. Carl is someone learned and savy that Gideon can talk to and they can reason/work cases out between them. Carl's technical ability and charm also fills a gap in Ravenor's team.

I cannot wait for Mira and Ian playing Inquisitor haha! Also, love to see more of these book chats :)

I'd really love listening to this conversation as a podcast. Maybe one day. 🤷🏼‍♂️ Either way, great conversation!

Mira is such a joy to see. Interestingly Mira is Spanish for look or see. Anyway, a lovely person, unlike ian which is just Spanish for ian.

They beat off the bad gus!

Mira needs to do all the plot summaries :)

The thing I loved about the first book particularly (it happens less so in the subsequent novels) is the way it tells the story of the principle agent almost entirely through a cast of other characters. It's like character building by proxy, which I found to be a fascinating idea. Typing this before I've watched the video so probably I'm just going to have ended up repeating what they say.

Just watching this now as I'm working through your 40K Book Club videos. On the point of representation of disability in 40K I can't help but notice that the cover art for the ebook Ravenor omnibus doesn't feature Ravenor in his suspension chair, but rather features two other characters front and centre, which I think are Harlan Nayl and Patience Kys, with a projection of Ravenor stood behind them. Optics wise that says a lot really.

19:34 That was basically my first thought when I saw the cover for the omnibus. I wonder if that's intentional. 34:15 Pretty sure there were drugged twist clowns getting horribly slaughtered in the Carnivora. Because that place is just messed up. 48:00 There's a bit like this in this book that has always stuck with me. Ravenor's gang tries to track down a suspect and they ask one of his relatives if she knows where he is, and she has two brothers who are stuck inside life support tanks after an industrial accident. It's never outright stated, but I feel like the point of that scene is to compare/contrast their state with Ravenor's. He gets to have a hover chair, they are kept in these barely functioning, disgusting tanks, all because he is "useful" to the Imperium, while they are not. Less about representation, more about how much the Imperium sucks, I suppose. One thing that wasn't mentioned but has always bugged me about this book: why don't the bad guys just kill Ravenor and his crew, instead of merely locking them up and steering the ship into the sun? That's classic villain stupidity right there. Kinda drags the whole thing down. Anyway, looking forward to _Ravenor Returned_ Though it would make sense to read the short story _Thorn Wishes Talon_ first. Never understood why that wasn't just part of the book.

This book was a different experience for me as I read Eisenhorn Magos first. This was great as I was already introduced to Ravernor's new form, Carl and Patience. Having that introduction to them and some of their the fates hinted at in Magos made this really interesting for me!

Love the Ravenor ensemble, the one thing I couldn't resist in my long-running Wrath and Glory tabletop campaign was some generational links to some of this crew

Woop woop what a great Tuesday treat! 😊

beautiful video, thanks. i don´t think that the 40K Universe is a really good environment for representation of most disabilities, because of the abundance of augmentations. they may be sometimes bad or cheap, but they work sufficient enough, sometimes it´s even an upgrade. ears, eyes, limbs: the old, weak flesh can be upgraded. one situation in gaunts ghost´s (which i would not consider Mira´s cup of tea, typical frontlinestories): one of the main characters looses its eyes (in the later books) and in on of the stories he now has the ability to drive in the dark like it´s daytime. though at the end of the book where this happens he receives a very truly sad message and has to admit that his new eyes can´t even cry although he does want to. and there is the ex-sniper who does loose his larynx i think (?) and after he get´s the augmentation can´t shoot good enough anymore so he is degraded to normal soldier. well, nevermind. there are two universes where the answer would be easy and clear for me if i want to life in it: Star Trek (of course! forever) and Warhammer 40K (of course not! not even for a second).

Regarding representation of disability, I would be interested to hear your (and others!) take on Double Eagle, where a former PDF fighter pilot who has lost a thumb and can't fly anymore. He starts the book struggling to work as a member of aircraft ground crew, but then later is grabbed by an imperial guard airborne commander and given back his wings, and the squadron's technicians modify his fighter to accept voice input for the weapons system, so he doesn't have to use his missing thumb.

I little bit late to leave a comment. But want to say thank you Ian and Mira! I've just started to read this ""ninelogy" this year. I'm one of those readers who likes to discuss books. Frankly none of my friends are interesed in w40k books, and my father got whole Expanse series on the list. But I've got my reading journals and you guys!

Awesome stuff guys, you provide a lot of inspiration for my own channell now to be honest and I enjoy every video you put out ❤

Love these videos always look forward to them getting released. 👍

Love the book reviews! Keep em coming 🤌

Speaking of Dark Heresy, have you read the novels that came out with that? Scourge the Heretic and Innocence Proves Nothing. Amazing books that you and Mira would love. Unfortunately, the third book never was released because Dark Heresy went defunct, or something like that, so the books stop in the middle of the story, but still some amazing gumshoe work. It is the acolytes of the inquisitor running around and doing stuff. Great stories!

"Zeph has dark vision" You can tell Mira is a D&D player.

Yo. Come on. Beat off the bad guys?

"I need a look, just one little look" What are the 'flects' a Xenos drug a chaos artefact or something else?

Most of these advanced sci fi settings are good for portraying physical disabilities since they can clone limbs, organs or just have bionics. You could do it of course but its going to take more time to work it out and make it interesting

Do you guys take turn reading the same book or buy duplicates? Just a thought you could both listen to the audio books, Toby Longworth is a top notch narrator.

umm aktually its not a 9-tology because theres 10 books counting the Magos Eisenhorn novel

Yay Mira!

This one’s missing from the book club playlist btw :)

For some reason I always imagined Harlon Nayl as Ron Perlman

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that the ravenor books were meant to flog the dark heresy RPGs. I know there were actually DH books ,(which weren't nearly as good), but I always thought ravenors characters was like a d&d party. One of the things DH emphasized was that the inquisitor was supposed to be used as a plot device more than an NPC, so ravenors being in the background kinda makes sense in that context. This is one of the first 40k novels I read, mostly because it was an adventure story. I read the anthologies a lot, but didn't know if I could get through a full novel of WAR, grimdark WAR, so this was a great intro. Zeph looked like Marvel's bishop in my head, wystan looks like Joey Ramone, preest was Janeway, nayl was vin Diesel with a goatee. As for, Patience kys, c'mon, she isn't a Mary Sue, she has a tragic back story!!

Please do Horus Rising! I'd love to hear Mira's thoughts on it.

The Lost and the Damned had an RPG section for 40k where you could play as a 'starchild' way more OP than any inquisitor ever. Literally a shard of the emperor. Sorry to have to call you on this one. My name is also Ian BTW have not played since 1st edition but I love the lore.

Do a video on your white dwarf editions hanging in the background! It’s an important part of the hobby - see my comment on your last video

The set up of Ravenor makes me think of Jeffrey Deaver's Lincoln Rhyme, the first which was adapted into a Denzel Washington and Angelina Jolie movie. Come to think of it, I think the late 90's and early aughts had a ton of profiling/intellectual investigators in the media over here in the US.

Yeah I felt a lot of "Worf effect" with Ravenor, he's continuously getting his ass kicked despite how powerful he is to prove how bad the bad guys(usual disclaimer about "bad guys" in 40k here)are

Probably in the minority, but I liked the Dark Heresy system. >.>

She makes me smile. I like her

Love those videos! I also loved your ranking of best horus heresy, do you plan on doing such a rating thing but for the battle series or Primarch series? 😇 (I know you already recommanded Grimaldus/Armageddon)

I finished Eisenhorn 1-3 and Ravenor 1-3 last week. What should I do now? What else Inquisitor based is out there?

Holy crap I got here early!

Disability-wise, would the state of the Emperor’s body in 40m count as being disabled?

you could do an awsome book about like a navigator who has severial disability but is awsome at navagting.

Woooot!!!!

Found Ravenor hard to read through than Eisenhorn series but still a good read.

I didn't really enjoy the Ravenor trilogy, or should I say the first two books, I didn't try to read the third one. Maybe because I was hoping for more Eisenhorn-like stuff? Which is not a very good reason, I guess. But I had that feeling that it was action, action, action, not really leading anywhere, and with probably too many point of view characters, who sadly felt to me like second-grade X-Men, or maybe even A-Team. Maybe I read it at the wrong moment and with the wrong expectations and I should try again... Anyway, thank you as always.

Is your shirt proclaiming your allegiance to Rules As Written?

: D

telekenenis

I think it's great to support disability in this space, but I'm having my doubts as to how well either of you understood the series if you have such a negative view of its representation. For one thing, Nayl ponders the loss of his finger and even wonders if this is how it began for Eisenhorn; before he became nothing but augmetics. He passes it off like nothing, but it's really disingenuous to twist that into an example of the book somehow glossing over it. Not even getting into Ravenor's own troubles with his disability, the way it affects him, all that. All in all that was a bizarre conclusion and not even close to accurate to the text.

Everytime i see Mira the first thought is how beautyful she is :)

No Mira, 40k is not capitalistic.

Wheelchair mages in RPGs are dumb. Like cast a spell on your spine, come on.