Testing to see how much affect canting your bow has on your shot
Пікірлер: 89
@davidnicholson70634 жыл бұрын
45 years with a bow in my hand. Do what works for you and just have fun with it. Nice video as always.
@OvertimeX862 жыл бұрын
I like a little canting with instinctive, works well for me
@plainsimple4425 жыл бұрын
Howard Hill used the split-vision method that you mentioned, and also tilted the bow 45 deg. with a tilted head to reduce the angle between the eye line and the arrow line to make the gap distance shorter on the target.
@MarkJoel19602 жыл бұрын
First off, I appreciate how much work you did to make this video! Thanks. As for why your heavy cant produced more arrows thrown to the left, it was probably your string grip. When you are used to holding a bow vertical, your wrist gets used to a certain position... when you cant the bow, usually your wrist stays too upright for the new position. This causes a pull off of the string that will throw your arrows left. But there is no question more extreme angles will require a shooting style change! You certainly would not want to switch between them. Good video!
@terrymattson35872 жыл бұрын
I shoot ASL with a small sight window so I cant my bow, I’m slowing my shot with lots of practice. With that said, I confess I’m not a target shooter, I practice because I hunt. When I do go to a range I hear people talking to each other; old school, old school....... I’m not young and I love what I do so 😝 this is why I don’t go to the range anymore. I shoot sitting, kneeling and on a stool most of the time cause that is how I hunt. Unless grouse hunting and that is when I snap shoot. Then I spend the rest of the year slowing my shot down. You are right about the back tension. This is why follow through in the release is so important and practice is so important. It’s really easy to have a premature release. Thank you very much for doing this video it really helped me to shut my ears even more to the form police. I like your videos. Oh! Thank you for the demo on the 40-40-20 finger tension. That helped me a lot.
@jerryclower80796 жыл бұрын
I found myself shooting consistently a little left and a little high of the bull when shooting vertical (I'm shooting right handed). My coach had me cant a little which moved the arrow right about an inch (would be opposite for a lefty). He pointed out that I (speaking only of me personally) now have better arrow alignment with my eye. He also said that there is no reason that I couldn't have just moved my point of aim to do the same thing, however he said some people adjust better one way than another. I think this goes along with the results of your video about gap shooting and arrow alignment. Because my longbow is not cut past center there is always a slight pointing to the left of the arrow past the riser which you normally account for when instinctive shooting. For me, canting the bow now has that error vertically aligned, and for me I can adjust better that way. He also told me that I overthink things and should sometimes just sit down and have a beer. I agree that a strong cant just won't let you get proper back tension. Love your videos.
@jake41942 жыл бұрын
My experience has been the same, I find my form is better shooting vertically but I usually hit high to the left vs when I cant
@knightingalesaid3 жыл бұрын
That was a really cool idea. Thanks for the testing.
@markingelin9773 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for this video. I didn't see any statistics. To avoid confounding the results, you might mix up the 3 cant levels instead of shooting all straight, then slight, then heavy cant.
@peterdarby7933 жыл бұрын
I enjoy your channel. I normally shoot with a canted bow. But it doesn’t make any difference between vertical and about 35 degrees or so in either aiming or back tension. When you were shooting you didn’t can’t your head with your bow which normally will mean that you have to adjust your aim for every ten degrees of cant or so. Try holding your bow vertical with an arrow held at full draw, but not on the string. Then point the arrow at something and cant the bow but not your head. As a left handed shooter you will now be pointing to the left. Then repeat the exercise but this time bend at the waist to make the bow cant while at full draw. You should find that the point does not move off your target nor is it any harder to get your back tension in. So what you are doing is shooting with a vertical bow while bent over. I use a four point anchor system as taught by Bob Wesley who learned it from Howard Hill. The fourth anchor will not allow you to cant the bow more than your head. Keep up the good work. I think you help a lot of archers and I know you have helped me.
@TheInkyMonk6 жыл бұрын
Hey Greg, I liked the part where you were shooting through the slats. That would be a fantastic training tool , as it forces you to focus on only the center. Great for building confidence as well. The center is the center. When I started shooting you would tell me to ignore the tree ( that was close to my line)...and I would promptly hit the tree. Took a bit of your coaching to get my focus on the center of the kill zone only.
@LukeMcMullin3 жыл бұрын
Hi Greg, it looked to me that sometimes your vertical and slight slant were about the same shot. I mean that some times your vertical was slanted slightly 17:01, just an observation. I like that shooting exercise.
@robertskowronski2923 Жыл бұрын
I noticed that your bow was canted but you didn't change your body or your head position. People that shoot with a heavy cant also alter their body position and head. Hunters often like the cant as it allows them to shoot game with their butt flat on the ground with their back against a tree. I like the fact that you did this video as it is often discussed. I shoot a compound as well as a recurve and found that using a cant really opened the window and allowed me to better visualize my arrow and the target with both eyes open. When I improved the angle of my head and body I found I actually had the same alignment as I do when shooting my shotgun for grouse. 3 finger under and anchor to my cheekbone as I do my shotgun really improved my shooting. I am hooked now! I just love shooting my trad bow. Thanks for the videos!
@FredHWalker5 жыл бұрын
Another great informative video. Nice shooting by the way. Like the target narrows device as well.
@alanbeaulier57836 жыл бұрын
Hey Greg, great video. The heavy can't would come in handy hunting on the ground and you have to kneel and shoot under an obstacle. Like your hoodie the saying on the back who does that pertain too :-). Thank you. Alan
@ash2103126 жыл бұрын
Nice video again Greg, I will add that canting the bow works best if you are shooting off the shelf. If you are shooting off an arrow rest aiming is not so accurate.
@TradArchery1016 жыл бұрын
Makes sense.
@johncooper72422 жыл бұрын
excellent experiment thank you for putting that question to rest. I would like to know how successfully a right handed bow can be shot left handed by putting the arrow on the shelf on the outside of a bow and canting the bow.
@dinnerwithfranklin24514 жыл бұрын
Excellent video, thanks very much
@petarpetalarev82976 жыл бұрын
Hi, Greg! Nice video. The idea of testing is good, but you make one mistake, in my opinion. Canting the bow means that you have to cant yourself (your upper body), too. In other words, your spine has to be parallel with the bow. That's why the string touches your ribs and that's why you can't have a proper back tension. Correct that, and the test results will be different. Also, as someone has already pointed out, canting the bow does affect the arrow trajectory, but shooting of the shelf makes it almost insignificant, because the arrow is very close to the center of the bow. The further it is, the heavier canting the bow will affect the arrow trajectory. All the best, Greg! Keep up the good work!
@TradArchery1016 жыл бұрын
Petar, Thanks for watching. I know many archers who shoot with a canted bow and either do not cant their body at or or very slightly. Canting the bow had zero effect with a slight cant, but it did with a heavy, why? Because it changed the angle that I was looking at the arrow. As for effecting trajectory, a cant does not affect the trajectory of an arrow. The trajectory is affected by what degree of angle the bow is being held on a vertical plane (height wise). When many test bows in a rig, the bow is sideways and that does not affect the flight of the arrow.If you have studies that show otherwise, I would love to see them.
@petarpetalarev82976 жыл бұрын
That's just what I mean. Canting affects the trajectory of an arrow related to the line of sight. We both mean the same, just looking from different perspectives.
@bowman3211235 жыл бұрын
Good video, it looks like the bottom line is still that the bow and arrow are accurate as the shooter. I suspect that if you practiced for a while with a heavy cant you will see an improved shot. Like you said, a definite maybe.
@CampfireKodiak3 ай бұрын
When I cant it shortens my draw length by an inch or two which reduces my arrow velocity. My longbows require a cant just to keep the arrow on the shelf for some reason buy my recurves not so much. It may be because my shelf rug is different. Not sure yet. If your arrow spine is not correct you will definitely see a big difference by how much you cant. A stiff arrow will move your POI left for a right hand shooter. Same with plucking the string.
@jimbigboystoys40773 жыл бұрын
This is interesting, because it seems to be the opposite with me….I tend to shoot a little better with a cant. But I don’t know. Maybe it’s just in my head.
@jake41942 жыл бұрын
It makes it easier to line up the arrow under your eye
@dougdunlap66385 жыл бұрын
Your just too good. Great videos
@Stormcloakvictory3 жыл бұрын
Thought it kinda came from like longbows and other trad bows without a cut out. Due to the wide arrow pass the arrow is off axis quite a lot and canting the bow brings the arrow to perpendicular center more.
@70Dazky Жыл бұрын
exactly.
@NathanChisholm041 Жыл бұрын
I cant my bow sometimes but im a instinctive shooter using a Turkish horsemans bow!
@antoespiga6 жыл бұрын
It has to affect arrow flight and POI, at least when shooting off the shelf. You are resting the arrow vertically on the corner of the shelf. That should have an effect on archer's paradox unless you are shooting really stiff arrows in a centershot bow.
@TradArchery1016 жыл бұрын
How will it affect the Archers Paradox? The Paradox only occurs in bow not cut to or past center.
@antoespiga6 жыл бұрын
I didn't explain myself. I was thinking about the arrow bending at the shooting, (which kind of happens in every bow). The thing is, the shelf, in a vertical shooting bow, is horizontal. However, with a heavy cant, the base and wall of the shelf are on a 45 degree inclination, so the arrow is likely touching them before leaving. Especially if you are shooting higher spine arrows in a bow not cut past center. I don't know how much of an impact on POI that would have, but I guess it should be noticeable at longer distances. Not that it contradicts your findings, I just had the thought halfway the video. And thank you very much for the content, it's an awesome channel.
@jake41942 жыл бұрын
@@antoespiga canting the bow does not effect the arrow differently, the bow shoots the same so nock left when canted would turn into a nock high left relative to the angle of the bow
@thomasnikolaou83313 жыл бұрын
Canting is not supposed to be like that. You keep your frame vertical, so you have proper back tension, but you lean your chest down so your eye gets on top of the arrow. By the way Mr Greg you are very good shooter!!!
@philprint6 жыл бұрын
There was an interference with your string/sweater on the full cant that makes me think that clothing could have an effect. The loose sleeve on the tee shirt on the indoor shots seemed to "bounce" on the release. Nice video.
@TradArchery1016 жыл бұрын
I did not feel any impact on the sleeve, But i got the same result with a sweat shirt outdoors and T-short in doors.
@Wingman1156 жыл бұрын
Great topic.
@gabrielschroff26344 жыл бұрын
Hello Greg, do you mind telling us what bow you are shooting? I have a starter bow (Galaxy Blackridge Longbow) and will eventually upgrade to a better quality bow. The bow you are shooting sounds really quiet and looks like a really smooth draw.
@TradArchery1014 жыл бұрын
Gabriel Schroff That is a bow I made. It essentially is a copy of a Ben Person Collegian from the 60’s
@cliffmadison4714 Жыл бұрын
3 under nock placement
@MONKLJ3 жыл бұрын
Did I miss it, what is the distance your shooting looks like about 30 yards ????
@GeezerDust Жыл бұрын
I shoot with a can't .... can't hit the target.
@thomasfarmer17302 жыл бұрын
I canter my recurve bow so the arrow stays on the handle being a beginner 😬
@jake41942 жыл бұрын
That is a benefit from canting, especially on a bow with a small shelf!
@h0tkoko4 жыл бұрын
Nice experiment, but with all due respect, the heavy cant did not look heavy enough.(did not slant enough). Can you do the experiment again?
@TradArchery1014 жыл бұрын
How much cant do you want. The thing to remember is canting the bow does not change the trajectory. That is why you can fire a rifle or pistol sideways and still hit the target. What canting seems to do it change you, and how you draw and use your body. That, and not the cant is why you shoot different.
@h0tkoko4 жыл бұрын
@@TradArchery101 OK, thanks for the explanation, I guess I was trying to figure if canting effects gap (your other video)
@seanjorgenson8064 Жыл бұрын
If your nock height or tune isn't perfect canting won't work.
@30cpe4 жыл бұрын
When you shot inside, you did shoot vertical. When you shot outside, you shot with a slight cant...no decernable difference between your "vertical" shots and your slight cant. That may explain why you saw no difference. I don't see how rotating your forearm would have any effect on back tension. If you stand up and point, then pull your shoulder blades together, rotating your forearm does nothing. Canting will absolutely change the point of impact though. The higher above your hand the arrow is, the more it will change it and the amount of cant will matter. Since your anchor was constant, rotating the bow to the left, since you are a lefty, will naturally shift the point of the arrow slightly to the left while the nock stays in the same spot. If you shoot off the shelf, the difference will be less than shooting off the shelf, which is why Olympic archers and compound shooters want their bows perfectly vertical. Unless you are sitting on the ground or need to avoid limbs or a tree stand with one of your bow limbs, there is really not much reason to cant a recurve. The sight window is huge, and most are cut to center, so there is nothing to obstruct your view of the target. If you shoot a longbow, in addition to clearing obsticles with your limbs, you have either a much smaller sight window, perhaps even no sight window. ASL bows and self bows are also not cut anywhere near center, so canting the bow opens up the sight picture. Hunting situations often dictate how you hold the bow, so if you hunt with a traditional bow, it is wise to practice from as many different positions as possible. As always, your video is informative and thought provoking.
@TradArchery1014 жыл бұрын
"I don't see how rotating your forearm would have any effect on back tension" - That all depends on how you do it. You can rotate the forearm by only using your back. Which would affect Back tension "why Olympic archers and compound shooters want their bows perfectly vertical" - I was always told the reason for that is so they can properly engage their back better. "Canting will absolutely change the point of impact though" - Not form what I have found. The biggest thing I have found with canting is that it can (does not mean will) affect your posture (people tend to "hunch" their shoulders), which can affect back tension.
@30cpe4 жыл бұрын
I'd like to see a video of you rotating your forearm using only your back. If you can manage it, I suppose it would effect your back tension. I rotate my forearm using my forearm. It's kind of an anatomical feature of the human body. Read Byron Ferguson's Become the Arrow. He goes into detail about changing point of impact by canting the bow. I'm not an expert, but I think maybe he qualifies.
@TradArchery1014 жыл бұрын
@@30cpe Watch any of my videos of me shooting. I drop and rotate my shoulder and in turn the the elbow rotates, which rotates the forearm. I met Byron Ferguson and read his book. He also says that the "Archers Paradox" is the arrow flexing, which it is not. I shoot with and without a cant and see no difference, maybe you should make a video disputing this.
@30cpe4 жыл бұрын
@@TradArchery101 If you see no difference with or without cant, how is it effecting your back tension? I don't see any difference either, so why would I make a video? You stated in you video that can changed your back tension. I still don't see how. I use my forearm to cant the bow, and so did you in the video. I've met Byron Ferguson and read is book as well. I honestly can't remember what he said about archer's paradox, but if you are saying that somehow wipes out everything else he wrote, I don't agree.
@TradArchery1014 жыл бұрын
Russ Vance You cannot engage your back Properly if you hunch over to can’t the bow. That much is true. As for the Ferguson remark, that was to let you know he, while a great archer is not the ultimate nor end all be all authority. You used his name to justify your position.
@bjcoveney53066 жыл бұрын
Do you have to take my off 5lbs. On the spine on a compound with different size limbs? Hoyt Rex has different size on top
@TradArchery1016 жыл бұрын
Are you talking arrows?
@bjcoveney53066 жыл бұрын
Yes arrows. It seems my groups are closer.
@TradArchery1016 жыл бұрын
Compounds are all cut past center. The old wooden ones are cut to or past center. So you should not have to take anything off of them.
@rubengilmore59123 жыл бұрын
Yea but your shooting off a shelf. Canting is for shooting off the hand. Archers paradox and all
@TradArchery1013 жыл бұрын
Ruben, not sure what you mean about “Archers Paradox”. Many trad archers (myself included) can’t the bow and shoot off a shelf. Some say it”opens” up their sight window more.
@gmivisualsjason37296 жыл бұрын
the arrow tune has to be right... release must be smooth or else arrow slaps the riser deflecting the arrow..
@TradArchery1016 жыл бұрын
Would that also not apply to a bow held vertically too? Or are you saying canting changes the tune?
@gmivisualsjason37296 жыл бұрын
perhaps it effects the tune.. not sure to be honest. however what I know is that with my trad bow shot of shelf using arrows bit too stiff I only get riser slap from the arrow when I cant it but not when held verticle. just my observation.
@TradArchery1016 жыл бұрын
I cannot say for sure that it does or does not. I do know that a heavy cant affected how I shot the bow. I was unable to use the same back tension and had a harder time getting to full draw. Maybe, that is what is happening, the heavy cant has changed something and is causing the slap.
@kevinplus3adventures6446 жыл бұрын
Greg nice video. Is that the bow that you made?
@TradArchery1016 жыл бұрын
Yes it is. I really enjoy shooting it
@kevinplus3adventures6446 жыл бұрын
It looks like it shoots really good. I am hoping to finish my first longbow this weekend.
@briancullen5183Ай бұрын
You are torquing bow st heavy cant.
@surfer44785 жыл бұрын
It has effect if you never shoot canted. If you always shoot canted you've adapted. The premise of this video is faulty.
@TradArchery1015 жыл бұрын
How so? Never fired a pistol canted til a week ago, no effect whatsoever. As for the bow, Canting it has zero effect on the trajectory of the arrow. NOw, if your premise is that it affects the archer, then you might have a point. Even then, the effect is something that is created in the archers mind and can and is easily done away with.
@surfer44785 жыл бұрын
@@TradArchery101 Exactly my point. I shoot with a heavy cant and that is natural for me so no compensation required. Shoot how you like. Someone who never shoots canted may need to adapt. shooting canted does require bending from the waist without collapsing the shoulders which may need to be learned.
@dougdunlap66385 жыл бұрын
where ya live I need lessons from you
@TradArchery1015 жыл бұрын
Dutchess County, NY, how about you?
@davidpate22373 жыл бұрын
I noticed on your bow you have the Airborne assemble are you in former airborne
@glenross94673 жыл бұрын
Is this in the dark? 🤣
@husam-al-din-baybars2 жыл бұрын
The question is: Does canting the bow affects your shot? Answer: No! Why? Because the bow is cut to the center!! If it was a (what is called) Medieval or primitive, then it will affect all day long :D
@TradArchery1012 жыл бұрын
Sorry but no. The trajectory of the arrow is the same. Canting, at reasonable angles has no effect on trajectory. If you cannot hit the same spot. It is you and not the bow causing it.
@husam-al-din-baybars2 жыл бұрын
@@TradArchery101 I totally agree with you! It has no effect on a bow like the one you are shooting with! Try your experiment with a bow that isn't cut to the center and see for yourself! Canting will have an effect. I kindly request a video from you about canting with a bow that isn't cut to the center(an asiatic bow, or english medieval bow). I think your experiment will not be complete until you do that :)
@TradArchery1012 жыл бұрын
One problem with your argument, the used used was NOT cut to center !
@husam-al-din-baybars2 жыл бұрын
@@TradArchery101 Sorry, I'm a bit confused! Isn't your bow cut to the center?
@TradArchery1012 жыл бұрын
@@husam-al-din-baybars Out of my twenty plus bows, only three are cut past center and maybe three more cut to center. The rest are not cut to center.