there is legit a progression level for a reason, you hit 85.. do normals and spend jp till you get enough ilvl for random heroics, then you do heroics till you are geared enough for raids. Sounds like they skipped most of the progress and went straight to heroic raids.

ffs there is no pleasing this player base honestly

I mean honestly if you’re having problems it’s because you have raiders with horrible attention span. They’re not hard. They’re punishing. So if you miss something it’s more than often a insta wipe unless you have healers who are reactive. One thing that changed was how you heal and tank, you went from spiky damage and whack-a-mole style healing. To burst but breathing room to let HoTs roll and allowing the player to really think about what spell to use. 5/10 times this tier it’s the healers not being on their toes, the 4/10 is the dps standing in shit or not using CDs, last one is the tank not using CDs. Raids shouldn’t be for every player. There needs to be progression and things not everyone can do, especially not week 1 or even week 2. I’m so glad with the HC difficulty and I can’t wait for firelands.

Why do you need to clear all the content week 1...?

So happy to hear Cata is still taking noobs to school in 2024 like it did back in 2010 I’ve always said the biggest reason people hated on Cata was because shit was waaaaay tougher than WotLK (even if we got post-nerf piss easy heroic dungeons this time around 😓)

Cata is the xpansion where all the classic andys realize they are bad at the game 😂

This isn't a cata problem this is a guild problem.

"Cata raid bosses are like retail mythic boss" 😂😂😂😂

we took almost 80 pulls for H ascendant 25 last week, this week we got it in 2 pulls. we are definitely smashing our faces against the wall but last night we did 9/13 in 3 hours which felt really nice compared to our previous weeks dad gamers unite

Imagine raiding everyday for three hours. Idk how you don't experience burnout in less than a month.

I joined a dad/boomer raiding guild who dont care about logs ect and Ive been having the best raid experience. Getting down HCs has been a good time.

bro said cata heroic is like retail mythic LMFAOOOOO

Jerome went full Dr Seuss it crushed his soul so much lol

I have so much fun in Cata. People will always cry and cry and cry and cry... I'm tired of this community.

10 man heroic raider here, 10 mans get scammed with significantly less loot compared to 25m. Additionally weak players affect your raids way more than 25

What I enjoy about cata raids compared to retail is that there are mechanics that you have to do, but there's not a bunch of swirly shit all over the room along with all the spells going off. Retail has WAY too much visualization going on.

As a former GM/Officer of a Semi-Hardcore guild from TBC to the end of Wrath classic. I realized as a GM you are not the reason the guild is a succes, it's the members of the guild that make it successful. How their experience is within the guild and how their mentality and goals towards raiding are met, is what will drive progression. Your job is to get good players, or players that have the ambition to become better at the game, and then help them reach their peak. Guide them in the correct direction. You as a leader need to have clear goals and expectations, so members that join your guild don't join under false pretenses. Something i also learned is that a great leadership comes from letting people do what they are good at. Use their drive and skill-set, and at the same time relieve yourself of some of the responsibility. Running a successfull guild is a full-time job that you can't do alone. I loved doing it, but i'm never going to do it again :D

Bro, cata raids are not hard.

This is the reason why I don’t join guilds and just pug. I’m a casual player who just enjoys the game overall. I like the progression at my own pace without the all seriousness behind it.

I personally love all the classic Andy’s crying that the raids are too difficult after they spent the last couple years fluffing their nits about how good they are for clearing nap worthy content and how “classic is harder than retail”

normal and heroic raids in retail are so easy if you have a decent group

Asmongold said it the best "Most classic players are old slow wooly mammoths and theyre slowly dying". Im loving Cataclysm and the difficulty is fair and reasonable. Some people just need to get good.

Tbh i don't really feel like Cata HC raids are that much harder than wotlk. There is just more punishing mechanics so it requires more personally responsiblity, but if you got a good raid lead (or ppl just know what to do) its not that bad on HC.. Ofc, there is some fights thats hard (nerf, Alakir & counsel), but thats not any different than it was in wotlk.

I also created a Guild, im a retail andy and i started playing wow in cata so wanted to re live my experience, but holy moly. I was expecting 2H week one on a 2 day 5 hours in total a week. One month later an we are 3H :(. But im loving it.

Firelands heroic is so much easier than all T11 raids by far, but ragnaros which is really hard. Every guild will be 6/7 heroic in a couple weeks but like asmongold said, a guild raiding full normal is closer to a guild 6/7 hc than a guild 6/7 hc is to a guild 7/7 hc

There are definitely some difficult retail raids like mythic but normal and heroic were a joke back when I played.

As someone that did Progression raiding for Cata the first time over a decade ago, if you want to progress in heroics you gotta be a bit of a hard ass. Cata raids are very. "personal responsibility."

I get some points about the difficulty level, but my guild is with 6 hours raiding per week on 9/13 and this week proably 11/13 with only nef and council left. It feels like most people just get hard skillchecked in cata, where fights arent about dps anymore and more about the fight it self

My guild is currently going through this right now.

And this is why I didn’t join any guilds. Guilds are more of a pain then worth my time and sanity.

This stuff feels more like a YOU problem lol. Imagine raiding every fcking day lol and cant progress.

I’m a dad gamer, a few hours a week and I was able to pug at noon on a Sunday BWD 10 and 25 on my blood DK. had some wipes on Nefarian on p3 but we got it eventually, in and out in less than 2 hours. I did not have that experience in ICC, as AGAIN I never downed the LK during the xpac. Overall cataclysm is more casual friendly and the gearing is MUCH easier. If anything, Cata will keep subscriber counts high because of the accessibility..

Honestly I find it laughable that just 1 month prior to prepatch, most of the community said "I'm not playing Cata bc the raid content is just face roll and boring, Hc is not even a challenge and not worth my time." Yet there are videos and forum complaints about the difficulty now. This community is something else.

Having cleared 13/13 hc on 10 man, none of the bosses reach the difficulty of LK heroic. As far as difficulty, the gear will even out a lot of it, so in 3-4 weeks you'll see a lot more guilds and players reaching 13/13 hc on their mains. Also none of the Cata heroic bosses even touch Mythic retail difficulty, you could argue the first 3-4 bosses on Mythic retail are fairly free, but overall none of the Cata bosses have a lot of mechanics. It's mostly 3-4 mechanics per boss, which really isn't difficult. Just requires you to pay attention

the problem with heroic is some players are not following Strat they be standing in stuff and wiping the raid i raid with my guild on 25 man each week doing world tour and we are starting to do some bosses on heroic 25 man its not that hard as long as you don't stand in stuff and stack when needed. think it all so comes down to having a good raid leader for call outs

You must just train 3 years on 3 time cataclysm free server and you will know every tactics

A Three Way Merger. Oh Dear...

simple answer: no. The playerbase, the community nowadays, is killing the game. End.

For me tbh I’m just so burnt out from the last couple years of classic grinding. I was hoping this av weekend would have gave lots of exp but it didn’t… il come back soon I promise

lol, is this debate still going on? Cata was when I started to LOVE the game. It was extremely difficult to begin, but like anything, more repetition, the easier, except when the mechanics themselves were broken, but we got creative and found different ways to kill things. My guild managed to kill everything but Deathwing, that's when we split.

If you can’t push more than 3 buttons and move every once in a while, then yes, it is very hard

there is a normal difficulty for all of those running it in pugs and casual relaxed guilds, normal is much easier than heroic in my opinion and manageable. Compared to this, SoD didn't even had various raid difficulties, just one difficulty for each raid

and the downturn begins

Just play RBG, its fun as hell and very active in cata!

You absolutely do not need any addon to perform well and be capable of raiding heroic. At least in cataclysm. People get so hung up on optimizing their interface and forget to actually get good.

cata isnt classic. cata was a reason why we wanted classic. fuck that.

It's more that people need to believe they are "heroic" raiders, even if they aren't. Which is fine, but when that perception gets challenged a lot of gamers can become pretty toxic and lash out.

how in tf are we talking about cata like its been out for ages.....lmao. " we were only 6/13 and cata slowly destroyed us..." bruh its been out for like 3 weeks.

People just want content and bis gear spoonfed to them so they can quit and move on to the next thing….. enjoy how difficult it can be… enjoy the game. Or dont.

fuck I love how easy comparatively it is to see and understand the ideas of the mechanics and problem solving nearly instantly when in retail its just rinse and repeat 1 shot after 1 shot a missed kick after a missed stop over and over, ADAPTING as a player when no1 else wants to survive, they want to do dps and do damage, but not live. People not being topped for mechanics, people not using a CD when they have a mechanic overlapping with another. I love alting and pushing without connecting main IO just to see what calibre of players im being gate kept by, you LITERALLY need 5k IO, 7m gear score, 4k ilvl, 12 alts, 8/9 mythic prog, be a RL, be currently recruiting AND also link CE from content completely irrelevant from 6 years ago JUST TO GET INTO A +2 because that'll quantify as a successful foundation for a GOOD player? (raiding every day for 3 weeks isnt enough apparantly right? recipe for burn out right? whats missing? FUNDAMENTALLY what is missing??) you cata players have it easy progging LFR with heroic tmog layered over the top, everything is SO SLOW, SO SLOW and yet I can see his raid frames arent topped for mechanics and people are dying with buttons even on pull wtf are you saving it for? The respawn at the spirit healer? Next pull when we blood lust because wow head told me so LMFAO I would NOT hesitate to explain the idea of what obstacle we're facing and EXACTLY what. it. is. "heals need to do healing" sick raid comm btw LOL "don't die" fuck, thats a sick one didnt think Id need to hear it i almost forgot, by the light. Love when the RL doesnt want to make a WA to use DBM sound bites to tell people about a frontal they cant see on their shit UI that they copy pasted from wago.io, instead tell each other to "suck my dick" (thats a good one too ill tell my raiders that one when they dont pre pot or cycle CDs for their overall) and I find myself doing more healing or more damage or taking more damage because none of my monkey DPS want to push a button. I imagine theyre all alt tabbing to icy veins so they can be told what to do and how to think and how to act and how to survive. Rank 1 oceanic, didnt need to apply. I only showed my UI and DEMONSTRATED understanding of HOW and WHEN ill die, and when mistakes happen inevitably YOU NEED TO CRITICALLY THINK. Not "suck my dick faggot, push heal buttons harder" idec wtf they say, it needs to be on point and not some stupid boomer shit about why you weren't ready for mechanics, thats what ur timers are for USE them. I don't think I've seen wow players harder on each other than I did in R1 oce and if I constantly looked to blame them for not doing whats within MY power, MY control I wouldn't have been invited, skipping the app process, like literally EVERY good opportunity Ive had in my life (including the ones I've ruined). The other people in ur raid ARE NOT THE OBSTACLE TO YOUR PROGRESSION FOR YOUR CHARACTER. YOU ARE. Go make a weakaura. I've made 1k WAs in dragonflight a lone, including all characters, all dungeons, raid mechanics, sounds, icons, text, timers. I have to turn shit off in BigWigs at the start of the season because the cunt wants to add spells and sounds turned on by DEFAULT, I've already made the weakaura's in 2 fucking seconds. EVERYTHING. IS. WITHIN. YOUR. CONTROL. Its either that or there is something wrong with the world, right? We can just try controlling that with the arm spam of 2 labradors put together, hell yeah sick plan. I am well-fed after seeing this, I have food buff after witnessing what prog has become to people. The game demands perfection, you get punished for not pressing the CORRECT button at this VERY SPECIFIC time, at this VERY specific moment, when this VERY specific mechanic happens at the same time as this VERY specific part, after this pull, after that pull this thing will wipe us if not managed, after that, this goes on CD for this pull in 5 minutes. Cata looks super easy atm am keen to check it out with good latency this time, am sick of russian ping and US servers tbh but its not like I enjoy Stormrage, Quel'Thalas, and those Area52 andys its just that low keys are fucking content and recording it is SO FUCKING GOOD and they never suspect my alts, because who genuinely takes 10 seconds to look at someones IO and be THAT invested in a fucking +6 where they NEED to see if im an alt and have any experience. When I look back and see how many globals my monkey dps missed and what they cycled, how much I see them fucking back pedalling too and the chaos fuels me and makes for excitement where people have very little motivation to do anything BUT the bare minimum. "Im calling to have healing healed" What the fuck are DBM timers for cunt, thanks for being a WA for the raid, shout out to the default Amy countdown voice in our actual discord telling me to push my healing buttons harder so sick LMFAO. He didnt get the results he wanted after giving other people officer, not preparing for raid and when faced with diversity, the strongest players WILL be the fucking most adaptable, quote me cunt. Id like to think if the RL for rank 1 oceanic during vanilla classic can demand things, and have expectations of his raiders, then I'm allowed to want shit too right? Have standards, not live in perpetual fear more concerned about controlling what other people feel and think, instead of what I feel and what I think. You know what, fuck this Yung shit, Im gonna make some randoms pugs officers so they can read my mind and do whatever will get the results I expected. Kill boss get loot ez. May aswell pug tbh bro "Don't Die" fuuuuck, I think of so many times I've heard this comm and it fucks me up everytime. I say this one as a meme amongst actual calls just to see if people notice. I'll start calling when I feel the raid has pressure to get everyone on the same page, then randomly ill say "Im hearthing" or "I'm dead, I'm dead" as a shadowbolt volley comes out just to keep everyone on their toes LMFAO. One of my CE guilds thought they could raid 2 hours a week and be called CE with less than 40% hit rate on CE together over 8 fucking tiers of content I managed to climb guild ranks just fine and never took the bait by dropping g rank at the time. Too much or too little doesn't seem to work for anyone, no matter what anyone or any dumb pug thinks, there is ONLY consequences. I love when boomers try to problem solve and lash out at the perceived obstacles. The discord comms actually go off in this guys LFR prog guild and I froth it. "NUmBeR oN DEtIAlS is LOw AnD my HP is ZErO, MuSt bE a YoU prObLem". The next move is to sign up to LFR as a guild on raid nights after normal isnt cleared right? Looking forward to more of these. Editted a quote "How you handle your fear and uncertainty, shapes who your character is."

Normal is very easy. Heroic is hard, but doable if everyone pulls their weight and does the mechanics. We're still pretty early on into the expansion, why does EVERYONE need to have 13/13 HC kills already? If you/your guild can't do that yet, why stress? I haven't done 13/13 just 9/13 but we're progressing a little more each week on our 2 raid nights. We're a dad-gamer guild, just trucking along with a main and an alt team of 25man raids. We're having fun even if we're not world first or even server first. This game isn't ONLY about racing to finish a raid first, don't forget the fun along the way.

It's like 10 year old content the info is out there. Anyone with half a brain is full clearing but all these LFR use to how easy live is are not having a great time I can tell you that and there is a lot more of them then people full clearing just raid logging each week. People bitched in van raiding was hard (mostly dealing with 39 other re re's) in TBC they cried it got to easy in wrath they said it felt okay but needed to be harder then bliz said oh harder you say and turned that shit up to 12 in cata. Shit you should have seen people trying to figure out NM dungeons when cata came out hell that was the raid lol. I can tell you right now there is more people full clearing now in the first month or whatever than all of cata the first time around before the nerfs it was that overturned. I watched whole servers quit there wasn't a raiding guild around when death wings back fight came out. You'd think bilz would tune it right but they don't care about that. Oh yeah the 10 man thing was pretty much the meta for getting raids done back then on the server I played on you almost never could find a 25 man. Cata was a fun time if you loved people raging and guild drama I had a blast even killed death wing before the nerf after like 2k wipes got the lego daggers on my rogue I had a good time then cute panda mop came out and I haven't touched live since.

Nah, cata raids aren't killing the game, well depends who you're asking. I'm in a guild that is so far 8/13 heroic 25m in tier 11 week 5 since we started the raiding. We only had 1 week where we split into 2x 10m teams, and that was a week where we lacked signs for the 2nd raid night, and a few raiders from wrath hadn't reached 85 yet. We knew from the start that cata heroics would be a lot tougher than we'd been used to. So we've worked hard, focused on 1 or 2 heroic bosses at a time. And once 1 is down, we have that on farm, then we start working on the next one. So we're getting there, and it's fun to work towards it.

This guys are finally getting some semi tough content and they can’t cope

If you think that a boss with 4 mechanics are too hard you might see if you are the problem and not the game. Sounds like he wants to right click the '' hardest '' content and get loot

This is the end for Classic.

the guy actually compared caty heroics to retail mythics xD they're like the first 3 heroics of amirdrassil - best comparison of difficulty. 1-2 mechanics with a wipe mechanic on top. But Mythic say fyrak has about 10 mechanics, 3 of which require raid wide coordination.. hardest part of caty right now is not drowning in lava vs ony/nef

You got it twisted Guzu, dad gamers did this like 100 years ago already. It's the new generations who are airheads who find it too hard.

People that complain content is too hard in wow when its not are the same people who blame everyone else in games like LoL without realizing they are usually the problem in the team

they are challenging which is nice

25 nen is harder than 10? Guess we play different patches

Cata raiding really shows that raids are not meant for a streamers audience. Sure you you have those who are prepared and actually know tacts to pull their weight, but they are getting overshadowed of people who just want to play with their favorite streamer and don't care about tacts. It is just difficult to accommodate the latter.

the raids arent long, its peoples attention spans are to short

Most people aren't that good at the game or don't want to spend the time to be very good at the game. People also want the best gear in the game. So if they can't get that best gear they'll find another game. People also just get bored. Churn, burnout, and raid logging are going to happen. Guild burnout has always happened in every expansion and got worse with each expansion as the raids got harder. Mythic + helped somewhat with this as organizing 5 people is a lot easier but the same principles apply. Molten Core had the most clears in classic and BWL had roughly 70-80% of that and by the time of Naxx it was like 25%. Servers died in TBC to make a few massive ones. Even on a massive server in wrath burn out got worse and worse every tier until we just never got down more than 1/4 of ICC heroics despite full clearing previous content. We could full clear it on normal every week but once again since people wanted the best gear and didn't get it they either quit for another guild or quit the game. That was my main 25 heroic guild. My smaller casual 10 man guild did all of ToGC on heroic every week but we couldn't even full clear naxx 10 on normal. Part of it was a skill issue but ICC almost tripled the bosses as well as adding all the trash meant we just didn't have the play time available to progress. Even over SoD so far we had like 40+ people online at any one time and 90+ on raid nights during phase 1. Tonight we had to cancel because only 14 people showed up and once the raid wasn't going to happen only 3 people were actually playing. It's not like any of this content is hard and we've full cleared everything week one except ST pre-nerf with every raid group we brought in. We also had alt nights that also full cleared constantly so it's not like lack of getting gear was the issue. This is an extremely normal thing that just always happens and the later in the xpac it goes the more and more you have to push as officers to recruit to fight the churn. We're a late night guild so we have less total population to draw from than a prime time guild but the same thing has happened even when I played in prime time guilds because there are more of those guilds fighting for recruits. TLDR: It's hard to organize groups at all and harder content and/or more people is even harder to organize for.

Back in the days it was hard but now with guides and videos you know what to do

They are not… People just need to get GUD 🎉

Idk it’s fun and challenging

I don't understand how players struggle with a 12 year old expansion of WOW jesus Christ, dad gamers be dad gamers.

Cataclysm raids are awesome ! Hard content, content player.

Wait lol, this is my guild wtf

wOw IS dEd REEEE

25 man easier than 10man tho

Why is Cata so boring? I got my Main to max Level, got him ready for raiding and doing it twice a week...beside there is nothing to do, did all rep and arch for trinket but I am never ever doing all this again

Some bosses are harder on 10man then 25 and hc neffy and sinestra were not that easy from what i remember. Also firelands are fine but dragon soul kinda sucks so you have very little to look for if you are pve player.

Cataclysmn Raids are not too hard, Cataclysmn Raids are very nice and until you get to Dragon Soul and the LFR Tool. Enjoy the kills on normal and give your best while progressing HC.

Lol this was a problem back in real Cata, then everything got nerfed to shit. Stop raiding if you can't beat it currently.

Who would have thought

As someones whos run a few successful guilds over a few years each; what that guild becomes is entirely shaped by the attitude you put into it and the environment you foster. If you have raging morons, its on you to correct it. As for the raids, theyre not too hard. They're definitely harder than classic but the difficulty now is X does big damage, you must use Y cooldown with a few mechanics thrown in for positioning/adds/kicks. This difficulty is far more enjoyable than, oh 3 warriors got MCd on Vashj and gain cc immunity and 1000% damage, say goodbye to your casters and nothing you can do about it. TBC had a lot of gimmicky mechanics that you would just go welp, thats a wipe, and nothing you can do. Cata is much more about outplaying mechanics, something you can work on and overcome rather than "the lucky pull". It's ok to not want to sweat in wow anymore, god knows I dont, but a mid guild can clear full heroics in T11 Cata before T12 comes out.

As someone who came from FFXIV to be a classic wow enjoyer. I see everyone who complains about the difficulty as a bunch of big babies 😂

you are completely wrong if you think 10 man is easier .... 25 man hc 100 times easier then 10...

What is with this clickbait title? Jesus

Tldr; don't join streamer guilds for raiding HC

I swear to God people suck at this game. Cataclysm raids are NOT hard compared to retail content. This is a dad’s expansion, enjoy it!

Posto Ipiranga sempre presente

I just don't give a rip about cata

sorry, but if u raid every day for 3 weeks and you are only 6/13 hc, you are just bad.

All I got from that guys video he was watching was "we suck and we came back everyday in the same gear and people expecting different results". Do some actual progression and don't burn yourself out. Get some normal gear come back and prog a few new bosses the next week.

Caty is not hard. It's just that simple. I feel like people are purposefully being bad for content.

No, cata raid's aren't hard, heroic is in a good place.

most ppl who r actually good at the game or just have a brain in general have quit this game as a whole unless they r making money from the game by being streamer/content creators. the few who stayed have to deal with the braindead casuals who r only capable of doing close to no mechanics while getting carried. ur feelings can get hurt or what not but this is the reality.

This is due to people trying to do content they're not even geared for lol. Do the progression like the rest of us.

Nope not touching Cataclysm. If i learned anything from the classic experience is that i still basically enjoy the same content as i did back then. The enjoyment of pve/pvp curves off at pretty much at the same point of content as back then. There's one thing i remember from cataclysm that was enjoyable, and that was the Hunter spider pets thingie. Abit of a challenge and very usable for pvp.

Cata didn't please everyone, because Cata didn't have an equivalent to WotLK's 10 Man Normal raid difficulty(LFR was not it). If they put a Raid difficulty that is easier than Normal, but still engaging and it was after Normal Dungeons instead of after Heroic dungeons with no set bonuses, Cata would have pleased everyone.

Noobs getting owned by PvE, good one.

are modern gamers just bad at games or something? what is wrong with people. cata was hard when i sucked at WoW 14 year ago.

cataclysm killed wow

Everyone in here saying “cata isn’t hard….” Compared to vanilla, tbc, and wotlk yes it is. It was purposely done because during and after wotlk people complained that the content was too easy. So blizzard stepped it up on purpose and what happened? “Cata killed wow.” “Cata is when wow died.” It’s all connected. Cata itself is fun. But I’d say the majority just wants to be able to slowly progress and eventually kill all Heroics. But due to life and families and jobs, people don’t have the time to dedicate the amount of hours they need to, to complete all heroics. So stop cappin

Cata normal raids are very easy

Leave it to the classic andies

Guys here saying dad gamers xD in original cata i didnt see a lot of shitty enchanting, geming , stat priorrity etc. Now ln cata classic I see that all the time, youngies cant even read whats written on the screen. Raiding? With this skills of reading and understanding Im not surprised newbies cant do raids😂