I wish I could say I'm amazed that so many people can't seem to grasp this point, but sadly, I'm not.

@@eriggle83 The Fuddery in the comments section is getting deep.

@theunknownknowsBYvoivod Yes, it is. What does surprise me is that there's so much of it amongst MACs viewers. Maybe it's just a bunch of KH or WC fans who found this in their feed today? If that's the case, then it makes perfect sense.

Agreed. If I can only have one, then go handheld, but of course that premise will never happen…

Exactly. There are so many excellent pocket-sized flashlights out there that there's no reason not to have one on you at all times. A WML is a specific piece of kit meant for a specific use.

What he meant is that if lacking on a camping trip. When is the last time you honestly used a trenching tool on your overnight camping with your kids? Same thing. Save weight by leaving at home thungsnyiure. Ever gonna actually use.

​@Hattiesburg9333 I've used one on every camping trip to dig my fire pit. What's your point? Where did he say anything about camping? What does that have to do with anything being discussed here? WMLs have become so small that the weight is negligible.

The instant you resorted to name calling your opinion meant absolutely nothing.

*I love the stupid kids nowadays. Someone older than you says something? They must be an old stupid person!* Do you know what the fun thing is about being an old stupid person? You got old because you really were not stupid. And we enjoy watching smug young people make mistakes. Sometimes a reset needs to occur. Sometimes the reset is funny.

​@@eriggle83oh my. Didn't do well in school? The point is, and I'll keep it simple for you is that you should carry the gear you will likely need and not carry gear that you've never needed and are unlikely to. Sort of that "yeah, I always keep a gas mask handy because the refinery twenty miles away may explode" attitude.

You need a dog if someone got in your room before you woke up. Jesus

Thats a stretch. Not sure I believe the college kid or you ??

He was talking about your carry gun not your home defense gun.

Though would it have been much different if you had just turned on a bedside lamp? The thing about pointing flashlights (especially high power ones) is you flashbang yourself when shone at a mirror or even the glass of a window or large framed picture. And especially if you're not 100% (like literally just woken up) you can mistakenly think a flashlight is being aimed at you when it's just a reflection, you don't get much context to recognize your own reflection it's just a blinding point of light. You don't have that problem turning on the light like normal. Also it's a problem that all the intruder can see is a flashlight, you're not having any deterrent effect of displaying a firearm, a drunk who is more violent may just think he's being irritated by a guy trying to dazzle him with a bright light and is not deterred from attacking but instead - illegitimately - takes it as provocation. Illumination is very important but you need to be realistic about what is the best use of resources around you. What if it was a cop? Maybe he shouldn't have been there, maybe he found the drunk outside with the door open and mistakenly believed the drunk when he said it was his house so when the drunk invites the cop into "his house" the cop strolls in totally not expecting to find you in your bedroom and what does he see? A guy whooping out a pistol with a WML and aiming it at him. He's liable to shoot you. I know it's not very "tactical" to illuminate yourself by just turning on the lights, but you're not clearing out caves in the mountains of Afghanistan. This is a civilian peacetime situation. For practical considerations, you might want to consider laying all your cards on the table and calling their bluff, you're in your own home, you should be able to stack the deck in your favor without having to resort to subterfuge of hiding in the dark while they're blinded in the light. Am I overthinking this? You may not like to overthink things but if you end up in court no one will be able to convince a jury "guys, don't overthink this" and by then it will be way too late to really think about it. When you're in court it will be presented as "how could you have not thought of this, it's obvious".

@@Treblaine Too long to read, yes you are overthinking this.

Much like weapon lights fire extinguisher are pointless.

@@robertsears46 Please stop posting, youre just trolling.

@@smtbigelow I am the ONLY one NOT trolling and being a FUDD. You are trolling and being a FUDD like everyone else that things weapon lights are a good thing.

@@smtbigelow And poorly at that.

Actually a fire blanket makes much more sense to keep for small fires especially in the kitchen. Fire extinguisher is to carve yourself an exit route if you are encircled, so keep an extinguisher in your bedroom, fire blanket in the kitchen

That is not what he said.

​@@Petetonyit's exactly what he said in regards to weapon lights, this is just taking his same logic and applying it on a broader scale.

I used my side arm just the other day. I have used it several times. But not once have I or anyone else ever used there weapon light.

TRUTH. Plus, the extra weight helps a little with muzzle flip.

@@robertsears46 You're high. More people use their weapon light LARPing about their house and fucking around with their gun than use their weapon. There's no good reason as to why you wouldn't have a light. Police, CIA, FBI, etc. have all used flashlights along with their sidearms for decades, the fact that you can mount it to the underside rail doesn't make it less effective. The idea that you're somehow adding bulk and complexity via pistol light is also idiotic - it's less complex than the janky holding techniques taught by Hackborn in his DVDs.

Cops and military put forth some of the greatest examples of what not to do. 🤣

he's still correct though

⁠@@AlexN2022 He’s not though.

@@DocMitchell69 well, fair enough, I didn't provide any argumentation. LE/Military go after the target. That's their job description. So they need tools to do that. Also, they work in teams, so tactics are different. Civilians are only required - and allowed! - to defend against an immediate threat. If it's so dark you can't see the threat, the threat can't see you. You don't go after him, you disengage. In your own house, where you cannot disengage, you know where the light switch is.

​@AlexN2022 ok but why would I rely on the assumption I can get to the light switch when I can just mount a light to my gun?

Desmond sure made a difference in your life, didn't he?

yes and its getting worse. may be time to leave.....@@shooter.mcgavin.

@@JD-tn5lz massive difference…..

Definitely agree here. I went with a laser for close and scope for distance. Handgun, I use a bright flashlight and standard enhanced sights. Personally I just don't like using my gun as a search light 😂

I can't envision myself ever moving to a pistol RDS. Certainly didn't help out the genious acorn cop hit his target. Which is a good thing in that case.

You’re not gonna just become comfortable with red dots. You got to take the plunge and get to training. Only once you figure it out will you see how much better it is.

​@@TheGeorgianGuynope. Been to the trainings and I'm also an instructor. Do pistol dots provide a significant advantage to a competent shooter in 99% of a shooting he's likely to face? ABSOLUTELY NOT; not even in law enforcement. Will it distract a mediocre or poor shooter from training fundamentals? Every single time. Every single damn time. Is it an extra piece of gear to maintain? Yes. Does it make a firearm harder to conceal? Yes. Do pistol dots assist a highly competent or extremely well-trained shooter perform better on qualifications courses or in flat-range competitions? Yep. Is it one more profit center for an optics company? Oh boy howdy, yes indeed.

For home defense, my 2 cents is a light is needed to positively identify someone at night. Your teenager might have snuck out for a party and is sneaking back in, etc.

The problem with using a WML to do that is you have to point a gun at someone before you've distinguished whether they are friend or foe. So you need an independent light source and to use that first. And when the threat isn't present you need to switch back to that independent light source, you can't wave your gun around everywhere sweeping with the light.

If you cannot tell if someone is “friend or foe” then you should not be drawing your gun, and you sure as Hell shouldn’t be pointing a loaded gun at an unidentified target, Alec Baldwin.

@@tfeltmat2903 🤣🤣🤣

I remember looking at lighting advice in gun magazines 30+ years ago, they advised holding the flashlight out sideways so as to draw fire towards the beam and away from your body.

​@Treblaine so you are going to carry a flashlight

Yeah Ken is way off the mark and starts off pretty condensending

he's pretty well stuck in 1982.

@@leftyo9589 naw more like 1992.....lol

correct, you fight to win no matter what, regardless of what some old duffer says.

RDS and WMS are not necessary on an EDC, on a nightstandgun sure. If you need a light, what are you gonna do, pull a your weapon and point it to light up something or someone? Pocket lights just makes more sense and are more useful. You can light up anything safely and not risk pointing your weapon for no reason. You clearly drew your weapon, if adked in a court of law you would have to say, I drew my weapon. Hand held pocket lights just make better sense for EDC. YOU can directly illuminate someone and still have your hand on your weapon. Onve anyone gets lit up by a light thay wince, this gives you a time advantage. If you light them up and it isn't a threat, you never drew your weapon. As for RDS, he stated 10 yards and in they make no difference. That's true. As for needing something... Do you tow a spare vehicle behind your vehicle, just in case??? No. That's the point he made with EDC , not nightstand guns. Never understood making a EDC bigger and heavier. Just being honest. Carry what you want .

@@shepleonard8695 What kind of yuppie buys a pistol for CC, and an entirely separate one for home defense? That's like $1k for a gun and range time/ammo that's way less effective than just using a long gun in the home, and a pistol for CC. Or just a CC pistol.

Alot of people do this. Ive got guns in ever one of my cars and trucks. Shooting is shooting. Nothing changes from a 9mm 1911 to a 9mm Sig 365, baducs are basics. And it's more like $2500. ​@userequaltoNull

Tell that to "when was the last time you needed that" Ken.

There's a perfectly good answer, don't use your wml to identify people, that's called threatening. Use a handheld. If someone were to point there gun at me to make sure that I'm not a threat the first thing I'm doing is calling the police on this idiot. We'll see how the law sees it.

With all due respect to Ken Hekathorn, such a comment deserves the same cognitive that our potted plant and chief needs.

"There are no absolutes" -Paul Harrell i think it was in one of the tactics videos, part 2 probably

yup, ken likely has never needed his pistol, nor his seatbelt in his car, nor the smoke detector in his house, but he has em all!@@georgewhitworth9742

Exactly. Your circumstances should drive your choices, and whatever anyone else wants to do is up to them.

Yup. More candela the better. Easier to see what those glowing green eyes in the brush are connected to 🤪

@@bobbyberry5559 100% what I was thinking you can tell a lot by what color the eyes glow

I'm in an apartment in a busy suburb. Kinda short on windows, so it can get dark inside. When a storm knocks out power (which is unheard of in Florida, I know, but), the suburbs are pretty damned dark, too. Can't have too many lights.

@@bobbyberry5559agree, but it’s good to have a light with a dim and bright setting. I have light colored painted walls in my house, with some ultra bright light, if someone puts their foot through my door and I have to wake up, get up, grab my gun, a good way to blind yourself is have a light that is too bright.

Try MIE holster

Amazon weapon light user detected

MSP or Floodlight 2 are the ones to go for...that is if your light is not Amazon/AliBaba in origins

Agreed. Concealment is critical (for comfort too). Anything that could snag, slow down draw speed, etc. I'm not interested in. A civilian defensive shooting is likely going to be fast and very close range. Don't need a light or optic on a CARRY pistol. If I need a light (e.g. dark alley) I probably already have a flashlight out and using it to guide my way. Home defense, different tool and analysis. You're not carrying it, not really worried about draw speed, would want a light in the event of power outage, etc.

Weapon mounted lantern

😂😂😂

Ken is still 100% right. He knows more about guns and shooting than most anyone on earth.

​@@robertsears46 he's forgotten more than MAC knows

Very true. But I also disagree with Mac on 99% of his crap. Mac is the most FUDD guys on the internet.@@timb83

I definitely agree with you 100%, but with great power , comes great responsibility. Its because who Ken to the tactical world as to why this is such a big deal. He very well could be putting peoples lives at risk.

I agree with training with the gear you own. Having said that, there is nothing wrong with having a light on your carry pistol. If you never need it, consider it insurance. If you do need it and don’t have it, you are screwed. It’s not as though we’re talking IR Illuminator/ laser on there, along with a bipod. He’s out of line on this one…

A WML has benefits even without direct usage. It’s literally used in competition to reduce muzzle flip

The message I got from watching that Ken Hakathorn video was not that he said you should not have WML's. But they are not as necessary as all the tacticool fudd's are saying. Generally as a defender if you need a WML you probably needed a flash light first then you identified that there is a threat and pulled your weapon. Also you are going to learn to shoot one handed anyways and people have trained to be very effective with one handed shooting for a very long time. So it's possible that a basic minimal EDC combination fine and that you should get to the range and buy practice and training.

@@poconofrank9476 yea but general if you need a WML you needed a flashlight fist and since you already got one. Why not just practice shooting with that

Well, that can depend on a lot of things. Regardless, once a deadly threat has been identified, you need to drop any light and get both hands on the gun and properly grip it, so it should have an integrated light of its own.

@floridaman6138 yes like I said carry both hand held and on gun

​@@floridaman6138in my home state of ny, light on gun is deadly force. So even if the gun is unloaded, you are presenting deadly force using the light on it which means it better be pointing at something presenting deadly force

This is why I love my Surefire Stiletto and Stiletto Pro.

And you aren't committing assault with a deadly weapon.

@@specom im also not dumb enough to qualify for police work.

Bad guys shoot at lights! You wear a lighted hat brim, well,,,,,,

@@kinch613 fair point, if it were just being left on drawing atrention. just made a great point why automatic grip/shake on lights are not ideal and better to have quick easy access. Sometimes ya just need to not draw attention to yourself.

Proper use of a light is something that requires a little training, just like anything else. There is a way to use a light that maximizes the benefits and reduces the risks.

Especially as the typical housebreaker likely won't be aiming anyway, they're just blasting away in the general direction.

@Treblaine Okay. I will be less discrete. I was shot at night time. I turned my light off and moved. I don't want to go into detail.

@RickNethery So does a muzzle flash. Better than getting a light, is getting a light with so many lumens that you can see but they can't. Cops keep their headlights and flashers on during a road stop, not just for safety from drivers still on the road... it's an offensive perception deterrent to disorient any would be attackers from facing them. Same reason snipers keep the sun to their back if they can. Better to be behind the light than facing it. Just trying to give you some peace of mind, not being a critical jackass.

@murdurmuffin7872 Oh, I understand, and in the right environment, a light could be very useful. You would have to be smart about it, though. Hope that your muzzle flash is the last thing your enemy ever sees. 👍

Considering your handle I find it odd you put so much trust in things that run on electricity in an emergency. WML make poor shooters better at holding onto a piddly 9mm and red dots on pistols are for people who don't understand where the bullet goes when their sights are lined up(which you have to do to use a red dot in the first place if you even aim with sights). This armchair speculation in these comments section aren't from people who have done ANYTHING. Even our most venerated guntoobers aren't a bona-fide all pro daisy gardener. You think his experience goes out of the window because "times change" he's not arguing for people to carry a revolver, he's just speaking the truth.

Why are you pointing a gun at someone you haven’t identified?

@@outofrangetv2353 Because some of us live on rural acreage miles from cell service and when you investigate what has freaked out the herd and alerted the dogs at 3am you don't venture out with both hands in the air. Out here we are our own first responders. I have a WML for the same reason I have a trauma kit, night vision, fire extinguisher, and gmrs in the atv.

@@outofrangetv2353I take it you have never trained with a wml

I'm a big fan of weapon mounted lights. Super handy when packing meat out after dark in bear country....they definitely have a place. I have red dots on handguns as well, but still undecided on how much I like them. I do know older folks like them more often than not... make the decisions on what works for you

Opinion of course. You had trouble with a handheld does not mean others will have the same trouble. Of course with a WML, you can aim to the left, right or up or down and still see what you need to.

@@winstonsmiths2449 I didn’t have trouble with a handheld. I’ve qualified multiple times on LEO course using handhelds. I just realized the disadvantages of a handheld over a WML. I always carry a high lumen edc light in my pocket and it sits next to my bedside at night. In the end it’s all personal preference and truth is no one way is the be all end all.

I agree that if one’s desires a WML than that is their choice. What I caution you to consider is that a light now reduces your night vision temporarily. Your light gives your position away if you are on your own familiar terrain. Next is the problem of Aggravated Assault when you point a deadly weapon at an individual who means you no harm like a lost traveler. His proof that you pointed a deadly weapon? Your weapon “mounted” light. They have their place but you must admit that they have their problems that one may not be able to legally overcome. Just my opinion.

This is an idiotic post that does not validate a WML in any way shape or form

@@omardevonlittle3817 You’re correct. It’s an opinion based on a few situations. What works for one person might not work for others. Hence all the changes in gun designs, the way one holds a gun, the type of stance one utilizes. There is no one method that is the answer.

Nah you gotta call out the stupidity and realize this guy is basing all these claims from his time he is way passed his time because by his argument why own anything at all since we don't use it at all times.

I'm not gonna lie, I don't think that's it man. I genuinely believes what he's saying.

Getting clicks doesn’t mean getting sales. His comments definitely aren’t getting Wilson combat any new customers.

​@@michaels5210 Exactly bro. The whole "negative attention is still attention" is BS. All he's done is make people ask why Wilson is showing this guy still.

Ken Goes To Bed At 4pm

Please tell me you're at least using the coronal light reflected off of surfaces and not aiming the muzzle at someone who hasn't been identified yet.

If you haven't positively identified whatever "it" is as a threat, you have absolutely no business pointing a weapon at "it" in the first place. Situational awareness > weapon features. When I go out in the city, I carry a small pistol with no extra shit on it for deep concealment, and a separate EDC light. If I need to see what that person crouched down by my car is, I can do that without pointing a weapon on it - and with my other hand on the weapon if the situation calls for it. If I need stabilization, I can do the old school police cross and shoot just fine. Maybe somebody dropped their keys, or had to tie their shoe. I don't want to find out by committing felonies. If I'm on my property I might have a full size pistol with a weapon light. But I'm also carrying a flashlight. I'll switch to the weapon light if the situation calls for it, and not before. If you have room for a weapon light, you have room for a flashlight. If you don't need a flashlight, you also don't need a weapon light.

I carry both..and train with both

You are the FUDD hear Ken is right in everyway.

Don't listen to robertsear thats above my comment. Obviously a troll.

Not this one.

@@captaintripps935 I said shooters

Exactly

Best answer right here

Everything Jeff Cooper said was 100% right and perfect advice that still holds up great today.

True, very true. The only thing that is continuous is change. To stand on a hill of accomplishment and say this is the highest peak attainable means you have limited your knowledge and experience. To be fair, I do not think every pistol needs a light. A small ccw that has a low hit probability past 12 yards, well ok maybe not. It depends on the situation and your training. What’s coming up, well multiple threats in defense scenario was unlikely 30 years ago. Now, gang activity, Tangos, saboteurs are increasing in probability daily.

@@caseysmith8831 That is just a massive lie.

@@robertsears46 Not even close to 100%

Him and Ayoob.

Me too. I THINK that's what he was talking about. He had to be more specific, and he used a bad example of the idiot using his WML as a regular flash light.

Good lights on hand guns is very pointless.

"I have weapon lights on all my HD guns. " Why? What is your logic?

Same... I put mustard on all my hotdogs at home but when I go out for hotdogs, I don't use mustard.

@@virtuaguyverify😂

Im surrounded by crackheads and I have never unholstered my weapon to use the light on it. You could, you know, carry a flashlight.

Wrong if you train properly and equip yourself properly, you dont use your weaponlight as a flashlight.

A regular flashlight would show you that… you don’t use a WML for scanning.

That was the main point that you DONT use a wml to just light something up!🤦‍♂

@@American-mk9nn So I can ID a threat and engage with my finger?

@@Gieszkanne Maybe you missed the part about being in conservation land, no one around, on trails? Frank isn't coming stomping out of the woods towards me at night, and if he is, Frank getting shot.

So you are going to muzzle sweep innocents on the trail? That is what a handheld lite is for. My handheld is on my body when I am awake. It will temporarily blind a perp with ill intentions if need be. Tell me how much you like your lite when you're appearing before a judge for brandishing a weapon.

Do you know what a light is for? When was the last time you were in such utter complete darkness, you needed a flashlight to make out faint details? I literally cannot remember it EVER being that dark, except when I took exceptional acts to make it dark, like a photo darkroom.

The point is you are never going to be in a place so dark you need a WML if you are a civilian.

@@robertsears46Well...not really. It is often dark when I take out the garbage. If I hear something I use my handheld light and then may pull my pistol if I see an animal. I would never pull my pistol to just use the flashlight.

@@m4rvinmartian uhhhh.. spent 29 years as a cop on the streets, multiple shootings… think I have a clue.

@@m4rvinmartian I've carried around a small EDC flashlight for probably over 10 years now. In that 10 years, I think I used it once to look for something that fell between the seat in my car. I don't know what all these people are doing with their lives, but I suspect it's a lot of fantasizing about ridiculous and improbable "what if" scenarios that will never happen.

See. This comment needs to be stickied at the top. It's a mic drop.

Woah there, that's a reasonable well thought out comment which means you used critical thinking. That's not allowed, all you. All you can do is dunk on people

So.many absolutes.... that aren't. I'm glad you live un such a perfect, well defined world of A+B=C. Problem is, the rest of the world doesn't. You cannot "always" disengage. Try that in a 2nd story bedroom with only one door. Turn on your own lights? Yeah, that would work 100% of the time....NOT! Swit hes are usually located bear their lights in a home. That's how that works. You just lit yourself up (unless its outdoors and that an entirely.different case where it's an obvious help. Indoors? Forget that!). Your arguments all exist in some predetermined perfect (for a defender) scenario. They just aren't reality 100% of the time. Well reasoned? No. More like spurious arguments founded on narrow, specific situations., not a broad set of circumstances

Well said. I would add a distinction to your point. A basic EDC gun is like a "doughnut" spare. Limited in capability, but compact and lightweight enough to always have with you. A gun with a light and laser is like a full-sized spare. Even better, but most of the time is more work to carry in your vehicle. All Ken is saying is that a full sized spare is not that important as long as you at least have a doughnut spare.

Howdy, neighbor!

That’s true. I have found it strange that the industry designing edc handguns so small and lightweight with their polymers that adding weight to it to reduce recoil is seen as a positive thing by some. Might be an indicator that there is a good middle ground somewhere for a carry pistol weight, and many current offerings are actually getting too light.

He said it you're not military or LE, you don't need it. And his example of stupid use was of a cop doing very a very stupid thing. You're introducing a wall of nuance into something that was not very nuanced.

@@bryanpeters5034I must have heard him mention it in a previous episode, maybe he wasnt clear on that, because I specifically remember him saying for home defense its a must. I think the point is, if he is arguing against using it its because it takes up space and weight, a home defense gun it does not matter its size or weight. Therefore he is talking about a carry gun for defense. Point being, you should be retreating out of the area and not moving forward towards the threat to search for them like Military or LE would. Of course you need a light on your home defense gun, because why not? It is not impacted by size or weight like a carry gun is.

I’m with you- I heard “don’t need” and “over-rated.” The only time I heard “useless,” was in the commentary. As to what he actually “said”…I’m sorry but unless someone can show me a considerable amount of self defense shootings in which an attached light was used, then ol Uncle Hack seems to be right…”when was the last time it was needed?” That’s what he said…as for overrated…take a pistol with an optic and attached light- ask yourself, “what’s the one thing that can fail but still make the firearm effective?” 🤔 yeah…the light! Probably have another source I can use on the rare occasion I’d really need it…making the firearm still effective AF….hence…”over-rated.” Also, that light can give your position away. Bad guys don’t need to properly ID a target…there are some occasions in which I’d “prefer” a separate light…again…”overrated.” Uncle Hack is 100% right boys…try not to lose sleep over it 😜

and 99.999999% of the time they wont need the gun either, yet no one is saying dont carry the gun.

@@leftyo9589 He didn’t say, “Don’t carry an attached light…” he didn’t even say “useless” like this title says…The only people that are suggesting that, are the people “saying” what “he said…” for clicks. Funny how you tube is falling into the same trap as the big network news now…it’s all about the money. Even for KZfaqrs…

ever noticed a light can light up things its not pointed at........?

Sound shots are out of style!

Tone & Context matters, when you start off with a statement like is in the video, it is gonna blow up in your face, I still think Ken is the real deal, he has had a long career teaching, but this tone was really bad and I lost some respect for the man.

You won't.

Exactly. Much like the "fads" from our high school days...ya got to have to cool thing of the moment.

Well to be fair. A light and red dot sight sound a lot more useful than night sights and a laser.

@@juliomaldonado4028 Lasers were always kind of laughable by serious shooters and self-defense minded folks. But personally, I'll take a handheld light and night sites over a dot and WML all day...everyday.

@@Lake_City_Defensive_Training How is a lazer on a gun laughable?

@@russellweber3466 They are silly little novelties. Great for entertaining cats...but that's pretty much the extent of their usefulness.