Once these guys get campaign buffs (not even things like nuln buffs, its pretty darn easy to get these guys maxed in the tech tree/skill tree) they might as well be using repeaters ngl. It is very feasible to get them to shoot at the reload cap of 4 seconds. And that truly does get insane

My favorite unit. I have always loved strategies where I force the enemy to attack me and then work from a defensive advantage .

So I haven't tried this out yet but I probably will tonight: I have a theory about the Ironsides as replacements for front line infantry or to mix in with them. Yes, they have a lower entity count and no shields but you would pair them with artillery, a couple of long rifles, gunner cavalry, and possibly a landship. As your front line they get to fire on opposing infantry until they close in, with you charging the Ironsides just before contact or pulling them back behind halberds. Enemy ranged is dealt with through artillery and cavalry, so the ironsides are protected. Have the landship broadside right behind them, acting as their They wouldn't be great as an anvil, but that isn't the tactics this army would use. But that's my hypothesis; ironsides are meant to be a swordsman/handgunner hybrid unit.

If you put Elspeth's upgrades in, there's no feud, they are OP. Exploding bullets means that you're not safe by just blocking them and WILL be overtaken by sheer volume of fire... It's just my staple gunners now... Also, you can use guard mode to allow them to shoot point blank EVEN in melee (sucks against things that can push though)

I love ironsides the way they are. They are great and obliterates enemys on mere seconds.

I found that they benefit way more from engineers stat buffs than regular handgunners, making them 100% superior late game

This was a really good video. You did a great job

The lower unit count/smaller formation size can be beneficial sometimes. With Ironsides, you can fit more firepower in a smaller formation area, allowing for better corner camping and whatnot.

So some math time The total amount of damage the unit as a whole can out put over the course of 10 seconds 60 ironsides * 31 damage = 1,860 Unit missile damage 90 handgunners * 17 = 1,530 Unit missile damage Cost per point of missile damage Ironsides 1,860 / 950 = 1.95 unit missile strength per gold Handgunners 1,530/600 = 2.55 unit missile strength per gold At first glance ironsides are better value per unit slot, while handgunners are better value per gold But, these numbers do not include things like the ironsides buff for standing still, the penetration, or calibration. And these numbers are using base stats with no buffs

Is there any trace in the unit stats that would indicate that they originally were a repeater handgun infantry unit? The quick reload speed seems to contradict it, but I've seen many arguments and even mods that say they originally used to have repeater handguns. In game they felt a bit underwhelming, I used them alongside a handgunner army but they didn't do much better in the gunline. This was against a greenskin horde so admittedly accuracy wasn't much of an issue. They also broke fairly quickly in melee combat with goblins.

Nice. Thanks for covering this unit video. Could you do a bonus video. Have the Ironsides do a shoot out against strelsi. Then a second battle where each unit simple charges in to melee against each other, With out firing a shot. This way we can see their effectiveness as a hybrid unit. I would like to see these 2 units vs chaos dwarf Fire glaves as well. Both at ranged gun fight. And melee only . Since these 3 units are a kind of hybrid unit. Would also be interesting seeing the different pistol and sword units do this ranged only and melee only test too. 😊Like the ones kisliv, ogres, empire, dwarves, and pirates have. So pistol sword vs pistol sword.

Nice to see a new unit that isn't incredibly overpowered, still I would like to see some higher tier gunners who have bayonets as well so you could have a cool evolution and eventually make napoleon era armies or at least something like the landsknechts with actual pikes as well as guns

Great analysis!

I tested a few situations with Ironsides. They are actually really good in straight shoot outs with other ranged units IF they have line of sight. I've had them even beat Celestial Dragon Crossbows (especially if they wait for the first volley to be fired before giving the attack order). Their accuracy also means they're better at hitting enemies already engaged with your troops too, if they're positioned well. These fellows really do reward good positioning, but punish bad positioning simply by being more direct fire than lots of other ranged troops. Black Powder Discipline is fantastic too, not just for the accuracy but I think it also buffs reload, and they start shooting pretty darn quick. The only other ranged units they consistently lost to (if they didn't kite) were the Dwarf shotgun units, both grudgerakers and blunderbusses. They beat Fireglaives, they beat Sisters of Avalorn (not a huge surprise there, mind you), and the beat non-kiting Waywatchers. But even so, that's not meant to be what they're for anyway. Worried about non-skirmishing archer units? Bring a few mortars, I guess. I think something I'd prefer, though, is to buff their range by 5 and bump em up to Tier 4, while adding an Ironsides variant unit with the repeater guns and even smaller numbers as a kind of short range "between formations" skirmish unit. That'd give Handgunners more space to breathe in the roster, since they're what, only a single tier below these guys? Buying Handgunners is a waste of time unless you're worried about cash. But either way... Now that gunlines are in full swing for Empire? A hill! A hill! My Steam Tank for a hill! It's very Empire 2/Fall of the Samurai feeling. Actually paying attention to elevation in battles feels so good now, especially with Elspeth. Seeing the enemy get Last Samurai'd is so good.

What is the role for Handgunners now? Less damage, worse stats- melee and ranged? Its an inferior unit all around. Maybe, if you are running short on funds and need a more affordable AP ranged options? But they are also easier to disrupt and destroy, so you have to add the cost of screening/protecting units into the equation.

This update made the Empire faction as whole! ❤ even better! And i dare say OP especially in range and artillery department! Lets not forget the new legendary lord of nuln she herself with that dragon is kinda OP AND the new grimdark units call "knights of the black rose "🌹 made the human Empire faction pretty OP and better! Oh and not mention the engineer lord which on max level he RIDES ON A STEAM TANK! Ps. Please 🙏 make a video on my new favorite 😍 cavalry units "knights of the black rose" 🌹 after playing around with these guys i quickly realize that these tanky cavalry melee units are more versatile than people think

I’m at turn 70, my armies have no melee infantry. I build armies kind of like a skaven doom stack.I have some characters or cav to screen out for fast units, and I’ll draw flanking dogs or the like across the middle to get shot with them

I didn't know, they get penetrating shots!

Do their bullets really penetrate? I dont see it happening. How does that work?

I saw a battle recently from a multiplayer battle and the Ironside really struggle to shoot a stationary kolek sun eater at pretty close range.

Overall, I'd say the only real downsides to these guys over regular handgunners is that with the increased rate of fire I's possible they run out of ammo faster... though the trade off with that is that they're going to slaughter damn near anything they run up against since penetration is no joke and likely to make them even more lethal to infantry blobs (looking at you Skaven). Their immobility isn't much of an issue either in my books, since you shouldn't be moving ranged units too often if you can help it.

Finally. We can hunt down elven Dragons. 😈 Their rulership over the battle field will end.

Hochlanders are amazing, just put them in the treeline!!! They will snipe at long range hidden ap damage. Beautiful. They are like the empire's Vietcong on steroids.

The Nuln Ironsides have more ammo than the Handgunners, not less.

Their supposed to be repeater rifles, why has it changed?

In Siege Battle where have Narrow Path have little space Ironside Really do Better

One thing I'd like to see is if the main advantages of Ironsides are actually meaningful. On paper? They're fine. In practice, though? Like. Their reload. Their is a cap on how fast you can reload. And the Empire has access to a lot of reload reduction skills and techs from lords and heroes. Put an Ironside and a Handgunner in an army with a Master Engineer and an Engineer Hero. With the appropriate research, the appropriate red line skills, and the special skills from Master Engineers and Engineers, will Ironsides be more expensive, less effective handgunners? Will their increased accuracy have enough of an impact to warrant their decreased entities? Or will that just make them a poor investment outside of multiplayer?

With upgrades Handgunners come out on top because of engine limitations. Ironsides already start very close to 5 sec reload limit so any +reload speed tech and bonus from exp is wasted on them. So earlier on Ironsides are indeed better than Handgunners but this doesnt translate into lategame where +30 models with upgrades just makes Handgunners better.

Frankly, I think they're just way overpriced right now. I think their price point is a relic from the original concept when they had repeating handguns. They just have no business costing over 50% more than Handgunners, especially not when you consider that Longrifles are cheaper than them. I'd either bring them down to 800 points or add a small increase to their missile damage.

Elspeth’s upgrades puts the entire empire to shame.