You may also wish to see why Low Profile 4x4 Tyres are Evil kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rt-Ta6uK36u-gHk.html

And that is how you fit 4 hours of university lecture material into 20 mins.

"wider tires look better on your Instagram" perfectly stated. Great video, great advice.

Finally I understans why military vehicles have tall narrow tires... Thanks !!!

I've been saying this for years, trying to explain it to all my offroad friends. I'm so happy to see this video cause now someone with resources has proved my theory to be correct 100%!! Great topic! Great video! Great job!

I'm ex forestry for close to forty years. We had deep mud in Winter and lifeless dead sand in Summer. We had hundreds of vehicles. Small SUV's right up to heavy off roads 6x6 trucks, 8x8 logging machines and I drove most of them. NONE had oversize tires, none were lifted, none had winches. We drove knowing the vehicle and to the conditions. Yes, we got bogged, but it was extremely rare. We had a rule "the driver digs it out" so you'd expect absolutely no help, just an audience giving "helpful" advice. 🤣 The only "modifications" we did to some, good brand tires, heavier springs and shockers, bullbars, that was about it. My own 4x4's over the years were the same and I have driven over some of the remotest parts of Australia. Very informative video ☺

The center of Australia was mapped by Len Beadel in a short wheel base landrover with standard wheels on it. He did it on his own without a winch or support vehicles. A lot of people have sat up probably at night or over a long period of time designing these off road vehicles for them to perform to their ability and to be able to manage a lot of different situations.

This was ridiculously helpful, thankyou. I have a Suzuki Grand Vitara I'm about to upgrade my wheels and tires on (from 226/65/R17 to something on a 16in wheel) and the irony of seeing a GV in this video made me smile a lot!

Purchasing today a set of five 255/80-17 Falken Wildpeak AT3 to replace the 285/70-17 presently clamped to the hubs of my F150. Been pondering this move for a year, now. I'm quite slow. Thank you Robert! as always for your hard work and for your always in-depth analyses on topics we find interesting and important to our veehickular lifestyles. You are, quite literally, THE MAN. Happy Holidays.

Best video I've seen on explaining the differences, very well produced and explained.

Just found this episode. Marvellous to see someone actually collecting facts on this issue. Thanks!

Robert, Another video that is thoroughly researched, packed with useful information, and expertly presented. You, Sir, are an expert that I trust. Keep up the good work. It is highly appreciated here. Ken Republic, Washington state USA

I learnt this from Robert Peppers’ book a few years ago now. Highly recommend.

Thanks for all of that. I had no idea there was so much involved and I am grateful that someone put so much effort into explaining it so well.

Excellent information and well presented. That painted tire/paper idea was brilliant. Thank you.

thank you for your hardwork. this is one of the most underated 4x4 chanel

Love your approach to off-road performance and hiw you break it down in your videos.. Especially great for those who understand the value of math and physics and want performance over appearance.

Watched this again a second time. Excellent. Thank you Dr Pepper.

Robert really thorough as usual :) Having spent 20yrs growing rice in NSW on both black and red clay I always removed the standard 750-16 wheels/tyres from the utes and fitted at least 31-10.5's or larger. Much less damage to the tracks/paddocks and when aired down to 10psi made the difference between walking or driving home. In those conditions flotation is everything you only have to see the duals or triples on tractors.

Thank you again for parting with some of your knowledge Robert. Cheers

What a great video and explanation. Also the additional input on the impact like the rotational weight, that is completely missing in other videos on youtube. Thank you for that content!

Always nice to see the research behind the conclusions. It makes sense.

This video was surprisingly informative and well presented. My early 4x4 experience was with militsry M151 jeeps and deuce-and-a-halfs. Relatively narrow tires. Never thought much of them one way or another. I worked for a few years for an employer in the southwest coastal area that maintained a fleet of Blazers , Broncos, and Ram Chargers. OEM tires got replaced with 78- series re-tread snow tires. Handled horrible on the road and weren’t great on the beach sand either. Ironically, some flirtation with Jeep Cherokees with the police package (Goodyear Eagles) were pretty capable on the beach or on trails. Didn’t even have to lock them into 4x4 or low range. The bigger SUVs started getting fat ATs and worked better on the beach although still required 4-low to get anywhere. Suspensions make a huge difference and the Broncos worked better when fitted with Rancho systems. Even worked off road better with OEM wheels and tires. I haven’t done much of any off reading for a while, but am going to rewatch this video and do some serious homework when my Tacoma 4x4 Sport is ready for new rubber. I previously had an Expedition with a Wrangler ATs and once got stuck in my driveway in 10 inches of snow. Of further mention is that early cars such as the Ford Model Ts/As had tall narrow tires. Unless one opted for a Marmon 4x4 conversion, they were all rear wheel drive. Add tire chains in mud or snow and they’d go anywhere. Especially interesting as my late granddad’s generation learned to drive in cars from them teens, twenties,and thirties, and even while living and working in rural areas complete with muddy roads never felt the need for 4x4. Always got around fine with open rear ends and mud grips.

This is so good, that very much for your hard work Robert!

Top notch as usual...now I'll go find your video that talks about the affects of different tread patterns. 🥰

Are you for real? The extent you take measurements and analyze tires (tyres) is off the charts impressive! What a great video and I have seen a number of your videos on SUV's, road tests, you name it on your channel and they are all equally great. Thank you for all you do!

Narrow and high makes sense to for off roading ! Thanks for explaining !

Brilliant research mate, thank you!

Your analysis & data is extremely helpful. Thank you.

THANK YOU for being in my court, regarding wider vs narrower tires, even for the street! You have proven, in your contact patch analysis, what I already knew, and proclaimed on an automotive forum that I frequent, and was laughed at on there.

Very detailed research and excellent explanation. Thank you.

Awesome video! Very comprehensive, please do more!

Another tour de force Rober!

Thank you! I have been looking for a proven and scientific comparison such as this one. Keep up the good work.

What a fantastic, thorough video!

This is the exact reason I stick to OEM size aggressive tire, thank you for your insight.

Thanks a lot for this extremely detailed explanation. This is tyre-science at it's finest. It's always a pleasure and interesting to watch your videos. So, in general speaking, wide tires on some offroader are mostly for better looks, but not always for better performance.

Great info and effort. Thanks sir.

Thank you for all your hard work

Hi Robert. That was very informative. Definitely going to influence my next tyre choice.

Thanks for sharing, it is the most comprehensive video I saw

Awesome work. Thanks

Sidewall height is also very important. It will affect ride comfort as well as how much you can deflate a tire and still drive.

Good video. Educational We have mostly mud and the best tire is the discontinued Co-op grip spur 7.50.16

I've been running the thinnest tire I can get, and run a modified steel rim. It ended up being 7lbs lighter than the mag wheels it came with (3.2kg) each wheel, times 6. The performance deflated has been really impressive in sand, snow, mud, washboard, and mountain trails. I decided to go this route many years ago after a heavy snow and my 67 Micro Bus with stock (skinny) tires just sliced through the snow. But this video confirms my other experience of very competent grip when the psi is lowered, and why.

Amazing video! I have a Jeep Gladiator with Kenda Klever RT 35 x 10.5 inch tires on a 17 x 7.5 wheel and they perform amazing. So many people here in the US run wide tires. They are clueless!

Once again, excellent presentation and fact sharing. Thanks.

Great video, thanks for the work you put into it.

👏🏼👏🏼 Fantastic research job!! And super good info condensation to make a video of just 18min to explain it. Great

Good explanation, and it is entirely consistent with my experience racing enduro motorcycles and touring off-road on adventure motorcycles. I’ve always run narrow tyres in the dirt, they drive through so much better and with the amount of really physical work required to ride a bike through sand you can actually feel a narrower tyre is significantly better. It’s interesting that pretty much all dirt bikes use 21” rims on the front, very “tall”, and most 21” tyres are relatively narrow. Unsprung weight is massively important with motorcycles too. So, intuitively I’ve carried that over to my 4WD setups, basically assuming tall and narrow is generally going to be better, and it was great to get an understanding of the science that supports this in most environments. Thanks.

Super cool video Great job explaining. And in a timely matter at that

Very good and demystify exposition. Thanks.

Awesome video. Thank you.

Thanks for that...have been in a crossroads of 305/70/17 or 285/75/17 = 33.8, the 305 meant to be wider and 285 taller. This vid helped!

YOU are FANTASTIC. YOU are GREAT. THANK YOU Robert. Thank You.

Absolut lecture about tires contact patch. I believe I knew this, but now I understand why. Thank you Robert, great work

Wow, it takes a lot to impress me, but . . . you covered basically everything I could think of congrats; VERY good video!

+1 .. Great informative KZfaq site Herr Robert Pepper. .. Subscribed. .. Cheers, Vail, Colorado

Some excellent analysis. I've long subscribed to the "longer is better (patch!)" theory, recently putting money where mouth is, in moving from 395/85 R20 to 14R20. I'd also recommend "Defender Mods and Travels" on KZfaq, with videos including "The Best Tyres for Overland Travel". Always plenty of physics based reasoning.

ASPW has been a fan of narrower tyres - his conclusion is from experience, now you laid some evidence down for that. I've always thought that narrower tyres were a better bet for offroad but only theoretical hunch - Thanks for the evidence based insight!

Very interesting content!

Excellent engineering analysis

This channel is awesome

I always watch your videos and find them to be very informing. I'm an engineer in the trailer towing industry and love the content you've put out on towing as it makes it easy for me to teach people some of the basics on why things are they way they are, I simply send them links to your videos. I agree with most of this and was already planning to go with skinnier and taller tires on my current vehicle build. However, there are a lot of other things to consider that don't easily show up in the math. Like how in mud, icy snow, and sand the top layer can be more firm that what's below. Often once you break through that layer (especially "dry" lakebeds and iced over snow) the vehicle will sink to the frame very quickly. Having wider tires makes a very big difference because the skinny tire with a longer contact patch is putting more pressure over an area that's already had pressure from the front of the tire. The wider tire with the shorter contact patch will be covering more fresh ground and therefore be less likely to break through.

Informative video. One thing I’ve never seen any KZfaqr mention is the advantage of fitting the widest tyre you can on a given rim width. For example if running a 16x8 rim a 285 wide tyre can be aired down lower and have less risk of debeading than a 265 wide tyre. I use to run 285/70r17 on a 17x9 rim and use to have constant debeading issues at 20 psi. Since changed to a 285/75r16 (still 33s) on a 16x8 and have aired down as low as 10psi no issues and have never debeaded since.

Great video with clear plots on graphs to illustrate your points. The relationship between tire height, width and tire pressure to contact patch may be just three of the factors to consider when choosing the tire however. Other possible factors could be: 1. What is the difference between contact pressures per square inch of narrow/wide/high prof/low prof tires? 2. What is the difference in the center of gravity between narrow/wide/high prof/low prof tires and how that affects vehicle stability? 3. What is the difference in centrifugal and centripetal forces between narrow/wide/high prof/low prof tires when stationary and when rolling at various speeds? 4. Also as you mentioned in one of the comments, what is the difference in different areas of the contact patch between narrow/wide/high prof/low prof when stationary and when rolling?

Terrific video thank you!

wow this is gold content! thanks!

Very interesting. You put a very credible case for you conclusions. Graham

10:29 This is an excellent point that I'm shocked I've never heard anyone else mention before!

I’m actually understanding what I was taught years ago. For plow trucks especially, you want the tall lengthier tires, and to do better in softer sand or muddy conditions you’d want wider.

Great content. Respect from India

Simply brilliant!

I am so glad you put this together Robert. I must point out one critical error in your method however. There is a vast difference in tire sizing between different manufacturers and models of tires. IE 3 265/70/17 tires of different brands will have widely varying tread widths. In addition, different tires will have drastically different behaviors on airing down. I understand that having all sizes in the same brand would be cost prohibitive. In any case, the video is great as are most that you do. Thank you.

Watched this during work. Made me feel productive

I couldn't agree more. Great video.

This was really eye opening for me 😮

What a fantastic video and great explanation of tyre selection. This is the reason for the last 30 years using 4wd vehicles, I always used narrow and tall tyres. Currently I run 235/85/16 and never been happier. Wider tyres are better suited if you live places with icy and snow conditions, but you will need to upgrade your drive train to take up the extra loads.

Great informative video! Just want to mention that many rock-crawlers swear by increased unsprung weight, even going so far as to put water in the tyres.

Good info. I run a 255/80R17 on my Pajero/Montero which is not the norm in the US but I prefer it.

I just learned so much more than I was expecting when I searched this question! Also, I'm so glad I did because I was about to go wider to increase performance on my 4x4 but now have learned it's better for me to stay narrow. Thank you!

Great video, thanks

I've run Dunlop 7.50R/16 on my old landrover and my Troopy for 36 yrs, never had a problem off road or on.

Depends on use. Sometimes floatation helps, sometimes digging deep works better. The one fact you can't argue is that the more air it holds, the higher its load rating can be. So for the rear of my fullsize work trucks, a 305/70 beats a 255/85. Both are 33"

Happy you bring this to light. In the U.S. this topic is rarely mentioned since probably the 70's. It is quite difficult to find "tall skinnies". Manufacturers don't even offer you the choice. Try finding 33x10.50r15 among manufacturers or even narrower. Good luck.

I've modified my Astro van with 4x4 and a lift - I'm running 235/85R16 LT Falken Wildpeak AT3W's with a full size spare currently mounted under the vehicle (I had to reroute the exhaust over to the passenger side of the vehicle more to make that work) - Off road in mud, sand and over large rocks/boulders the vehicle grips and pulls through everything like a tank, especially when I'm in 4-LOW. I'm very pleased

Lot of true in one place, good video.😎😎😎

A very comprehensive article and provides great food for thought. One thing that came to my mind when you were winding up and talking about the benefits of each was regarding the weight carried by the vehicle. We trundle down the road in our 4x4s ladden to the hilt on reasonably wide tyres these days. The weights are fairly constant during the whole trip. Is it right to assume that a narrow tyre has a lower carrying capacity than a larger wider tyre when considering the vehicle to be a 4x4? I specify 4x4 because we will be lowering the pressure to do some cross-country driving at some point no doubt. If we were just doing highway driving then the narrow tyres would certainly be better. But for the off-road stuff especially with a fully laden vehicle, perhaps the wider tyres still hold the top spot.

As an engineer I really appreciate this video. Great video!

put some 295/50 r15 on my cj7, never got stuck, good for street, sand, muddy fields, pulled people out with them.

Cool video. Cheers. It would be good to have more of a control in the comparison. E.g use a bfg km3 in 305/70r16, 285/75r16, and 255/85r16. Also, it'd be great to measure the deformation over objects lateral and longitudinal to the direction of travel. I think comparing 3 different tyres of identical size would also be interesting.

Love the video and research. Did you find correlations with contact patch and vehicle weight? I would expect similar contact patch at a given pressure for different sizes because the vehicle weight did not change, and tires have a similar compliance. (Within the error shown.) 2) An advantage of large diameter tires is running lower pressure to get a larger contact patch when you want. That is helpful when the surface is not solid, like sand, gravel or loose. 3) Contact patch is different on soft surfaces like sand, mud and dirt, because of penetration where the true contact patch wraps around some of the tire. That is an advantage for wider tires because they don't sink as deep for the same contact. 4) Racing vehicles at the end of the video are purpose-built to go fast. Penetration is much less at speed, and traction demands are quite different, so be careful making tire choices for recreation off-road based on those. Finally, a choice for wide or narrow must also contemplate the terrain. A good tire choice for the desert is probably not the best tire for mud. Pluses and minuses with everything as you mention. Good job with the video.

I'm Dilmar from Escola4x4 Brazil. Your channel is very good! All topics are deep explorated, with a good theory explanation and practical uses. Congratulations! I would like to use your information for my classes...

real good vid

I'm an off road tour guide in Southern Utah. Lots of sand! I'm interested to know if you ran these same tests at a much lower PSI. On my side by sides I run about 11 PSI. On the full size vehicles I run about 23 PSI so I can drive on pavement without issue. But, when I am going to spend significant time in the sand I'll air down to 6-8 PSI in the full size vehicles. You can see the difference in contact patch visibly with the naked eye. Awesome video!! Love stuff like this.

Putting narrow tires on my truck this week. From the sound of it I'm going to do just fine 👌🏼

This explains why I saw no difference in sand driving with my 1979 FJ40 Landcruiser when I went from wide wheels and tires to stock wheels and tires. The stock tires improved the ride and handling. I did the change for cosmetic reasons, but was surprised at the improvement.

Thanks Robert, this backs up my theory and discussion I had with a prominent youtuber who thinks running massive wide tyres is the only way to off road, I should have sent him the link to this video, but I doubt he'd take notice of the evidence.

Maybe I’m mistaken, but I thought tire pressure, contact patch, and corner weight were all related (contact patch in sq in x PSI = weight on that tire). Tire carcass rigidity probably changes that, relating to your point that tires aren’t balloons. Great video and my next choice of tires will definitely be as narrow as I can reasonably fit.

I absolutely appreciate this but the sprung vs. unsprung weight comparison slide is reversed. 1kg rotating mass (wheel) should be equivalent to 1.6kg non-rotating mass (cargo). You have the 1.6kg of wheel weight being equal to 1kg of cargo weight. Just trying to clarify, otherwise thank you so much for putting this together and delivering it at a great pace!