For more with Arielle Isaac Norman (and our other guests) join our Listener Community! Take advantage of our Summer Subscriber Special and get 10% off an annual subscription by using this link: www.widerlenspod.com/summer

Regarding pronouns, the response I liked was from a parent (who told their child to tell people) "Our family doesn't engage in that cultural ritual."

Excellent point at about 27 minutes. People are too focused on how wrong the other side is. Folks are not willing enough, or at all, to examine whether their side of an issue is wrong.

How can “fear mongering” be far right considering what is happening to women and children?

The indisputable quality about comedy and satire is that “something is funny because it is true”.

One thing that's really lacking these days is humour, so thanks for having Arielle on the show.

In the late 1960's, I had the pleasure of hearing Eric Hoffer addressing the American Psychological Association. In my memory, he lambasted them and at the end they applauded. Alas, I can not find the talk on the internet. He worked 3 days a week as a longshoreman in San Francisco.

46:42 EXACTLY 🤷🏾‍♂️😂🔞🌈 I thank my CATTY GAY ELDERS for sharing their sense of humor with me! Take me back to the era of *taboo gays* ASAP!

Excellent point (27:00) about the devastating effect of Trump’s election on liberals’ ability to question themselves and their views and ideals. A similar polarizing effect materialized on the center-right, with people who felt vilified and misunderstood, and thus resorted to doubling down on defending and normalising Trump… Psychopaths have this effect on people, creating division and hatred on all sides

I'm just a few years younger than Arielle but she hit the nail on the head for me. Gay people used to have the most rotten, problematic humor and we cherished it. It was our love language!

I paused at 4 minutes in to go and watch the aforementioned show, and I've not howled so much in a very, very long time. Also RE: Looking "pronoun-y", I had my head shaved for a very long time, and it wasn't until one day someone asked me my pronouns, to my face. When I said "He. Him. Obviously!", they said, "Well, you never know nowadays". I'd never been so disappointed, and it absolutely tilted me. Clearly, something wasn't working and I had to adapt. You'd think resembling a skinhead would have the opposite effect but alas. That was my sliding doors moment. Amazing work as always ladies!

I am just 8 min in, and I am loving it. Politically non binary is hilarious, it is how I identify.

I just watched her standup special; laughed all the way through. She's really good imo.

Huge respect for this guest!

I love it when you two have down-to-earth people as guests. When she was talking about how the LGB community used to be the most irreverent, I really thought about that, and I do miss it. Many of my gay friends absolutely won't spend time with people younger than Arielle because they're tried of the tragic judginess.

Thank you for this. But, can we please get away from the word "queer"?! I was a teenager in the late 80s/early 90s when the N word was "reclaimed" by black artisits and communities. I (being a member of that community) was appalled and have always believed that by "reclaiming" a word, you are actually harming yourself and the generations of people who had it hurled at them before you were even an idea. It's the same thing with the Q word. It does nothing but harm. Please, Ms. O'Malley, I love your work and i understand that you're trykng to reach a broad audience. But, stop using that word. It does not help anyone.

Arielle, you are so funny. I laughed so much listening to you!

I identify as nonBidenary😂

When she said some queer people don't know anything about AGP, did she mean LGB people or Queer ideologues?

I keep hearing women are fluid in sexual preferences. I wonder where that comes from. It’s frequently repeated without saying what’s the evidence for it?

Thanks!

There was a thread on the poly subreddit by a person who was raised in a poly household. Their mother is in relationships with two men who are best friends, all three were friends from a young age. She had kids with both of them, they all live together. All the kids were considered each other's siblings, not half-singlings. The kids know who their biological dad is, but the OP said they still catch themselves thinking, "my nose is this shape cause I got it from my other dad". From their story it seemed the only issue was other people's prejudice. Personally, I don't see why a sexual romantic relationship between mother and father is needed to raise healthy, well-adjusted children, and why this relationship must be exclusive.

Around min 52, the argument is not about "forcing" bakers to bake wedding cakes for gay weddings. It's about discrimination on an unlawful basis. If gays have all the rights and privileges of straights, should a vendor be able to refuse service to them on the basis of their gay sexuality? How is it different from refusing service to a black couple or interracial couple who want a cake for their wedding? Whether you want a homophobic baker is not the point. Whether the baker can refuse service to you as a protected demographic is the point. The black people who sat at lunch counters in the South in the 60s, didn't want to pay for meals from racists. They wanted to be free to eat everywhere white people could eat. So, you are saying that the same "rights" model does not apply to black people and to gay people? Interesting premise, but if not, what model does apply? How do you prevent discrimination?

I'm going to have to start commenting quite early. I can't imagine possibly wanting to listen to a podcast titled "gender fluids", however have no difficulty understanding the importance of the "s" Just bizarre the difficulty described in being introduced. Also politically non binary. So already entertaining imaging the frustration!

52:30 the point Liberalism crosses over into authoritarianism is when people use compunction to comply. It's the point where you have to believe in the religion of socialism, Critical Social Justice, and deny that you cannot see into other people's hearts.

I'm surprised the hosts, that claim to be a psychologist/therapist, weren't familiar with the book by Eric Hoffer, True Believer. I read it decades ago in high school or college.

49:35 TRUTH

I loved Arielle's observation that older generations of gay/queer people really struggled and, therefore, leaned into dark humor and had more lightheartedness that way. I think that is probably true. Sometimes all you have going for you is gallows humor. I disagree about polyamory/polygamy being of benefit to kids, though. Societies who practice this tend to have higher rates of domestic abuse. Sister wives are in competition with each other to get resources from the husband. Even in a society where women work and therefore don't need financial resources from the husband, his time and attention is a resource, too. It's been documented that sister wives will sometimes abuse each other's kids to control the other wives and get status, though this is in more patriarchal societies where women don't have a choice about the polygamy. I suspect that even with the sister wives being friends who pick some guy they both like, as in her example, things likely would sour. How do you compromise on a guy you both love? What if one wants guy A but the other wants guy B? Also, what if the guy likes one friend more than the other? Or he has 3 kids with one, but only 1 with the other. Does that mean one wife gets to outsource some of her parenting to the ither wife, so the kids get equal mom time? Or does one set of kids just have less mommy time while their sibling has all of his/her mom's attention? And even if both mom's help with all kids, I doubt a woman is going to feel as much love for her friend's kid as one she birthed. I think it would be like having a roommate that is also sleeping with your husband. Even though they'd be living in the same home (presumably), so they don't have to schedule different days for hubby to visit with different families, you still have to try to find time for everyone to feel they are in the relationship and that their children or their mom has equal status. It would leave too much room for jealousy and favoritism. I don't think it would end up with each kid having extra mom time. I think each kid would just have less dad time. I love my friends, but I just want to live next door to them and help each other in a neighborly way. 😊

Why didn't Sasha or Stella ask Arielle what she means by saying she is dude - like? I would have loved to have heard all the male stereotypes that she believes makes her masculine.

34:51 - Kicking her out of the queer community? So would that have made her an ex-lesbian? And then wouldn't that be conversion therapy? (Sorry, non-comedian here wanting to join in the fun)

Where does this notion that pronouns have anything to do with respect come from? I'm a non-binary male. My pronouns are I/me. If you want to know what pronouns to use for me when talking about me to someone else, please use the pronouns that you think they would assume if they saw me from across the room. The purpose for having gendered pronouns is to reduce confusion while speeding up speech by not repeating names superfluously, not increase confusion.

“Far right” just means sensible or moderate now, no room for offense.

On the point of using polyamory to deal with something else, like get validation or attention - you can say the same thing about any relationship structure. I know plenty of people who got into normative monogamous relationships just because they were lonely. I know plenty of people who got married because they wanted to appease their parents. I know plenty of people who hate their spouse, but won't divorce and separate because they don't want to feel like a failure and they are terrified of being judged. We all understand people are different. Some like to live in cities, some hate cities. Some are foodies, some are happy to live on Soylent. Some like to travel and experience new things, some hate unfamiliar things. Why then, when it comes to relationships, only one way is the right way? How is it possible that everyone should want marriage, monogamy, kids, shared house, and shared finances? Why in this area we are all the same?

Oh, I've got to see Arielle's standup! It's so refreshing when you get a queer person who doesn't think their vision has to be forced on others, and truly wants all people to be comfortable in their own space. Besides, this idea of one guy to service two women seems quite sensible :)!

❤🇬🇧

I can't watch - Stella, catch up - the "queer community" doesn't exist. "Queer" is a political statement, not a sexuality. Keep on being the adult, don't try to "get down with the kids", please!

“They” is plural.

Shes not wrong about the politicians and blackmail thing...

49:00 illustrates the Achilles heel of liberalism. Just how liberal is too liberal and how do we decide.

"...there's nothing wrong with being an autistic pervert..." What am I missing here? Take away the adjective 'autistic' and we have pervert. Some dictionary references: "Perverse - Persistent in error; different from what is reasonable or required; wicked; Perversion - preference for a form of sexual activity other than normal intercourse [it is widespread that normal today does include LGB] ; Pervert (noun) - perverted person; person showing perversion of sexual instincts." When it applies to the realm of sex, what is ok about being perverted? Please don't reply with something like it all being relative or an entirely personal thing or she was saying it toungue in cheek (there is no indication of that). Words have meanings (yes they do change incrementally over time with usage) and succeeding generations of children are taught language and grammar in schools so that they can confidently go about growing and living in a world where, amongst other things, they can rely on what most people say, or avoid being conned. What parent or friend would accept without reservation their child or friend saying seriously: "Oh, I'm dating a pervert." And you could append whatever adjective you like but the reaction would still be the same - concern. We are living in uniquely stupid times. (As an aside, the whole of transworld is awash with waves of linguistic distortion, and I think too many people are dragged under by it.)

The openess to polyamory is born of a society where the extended family has been lost. Aunts, Uncles, Grandparents would have supported flagging family members in the past. This resource just isn't available to people in an atomised mobile society. The effect on men of societies that allow multiple wives is quite confronting. Go live in an Arabic speaking country, see how the men regard women. It's important to bear in mind leacherous objectifying behaviour from low status men is not the reason for polygamy, it results from it. Compare the behaviour of men in France and Utaly with the behaviour of men in Scandinaviour. Illicit affairs (occult polyamory) is far more integrated into Catholic societies where divorce is not an option, than Protestant countries where divorce is still seen as a failure, but nevertheless is not stigmatised as it might have been fifty years ago.

Almost unwatchable.... to culturally load pronouns like this is crazy, word-salad talk

I suppose trying to understand troubled people like this could be worthwhile for a therapist but as for learning something from the likes of her, I think not. Wallowing in the immaturity of the culture this person sees as normal is a bit pointless. Instead of indulging any of this I think it is better to point out how misguided it all is.

This comedian person is Qanon. I concluded this at about the 50 min mark when she started talking about bohemian Grove and the abuse of kids. Yeahhh, that's multiple red flags, INTERNET NUTTER DETECTED.

If only she was as funny as Dave Chappelle...

❤🇬🇧