I don't know how effective this will be even on youtube with all the ai-bots roaming about. But perhaps there's enough real humans out there to drown out the bots in this discussion.
Пікірлер: 20
@techrubicon7 ай бұрын
As an independent digital artist who works with a combination of stop motion, 3D animation, photography and film, I have found AI a useful tool to aid and enhance my work, the problem is that there seems to be a huge amount of fear in the digital art world about AI. I have even been attacked on line for work that had not used AI but some stupid people assumed it was. The borders are becoming blurred and confused. AI is not going away, I would recommend independent digital artists think about using these tools to speed up their workflow and help them produce work faster. The future will be full of people who ignored AI tools out of fear and people who used it to help them be competitive, who do you think will last? I still plan to create original art, photography and film and I also plan to use AI to help me survive against the big corporations who do not value original art and will opt for the cheapest source of content. So in summery let AI help you as a tool to enhance and accelerate your workflow but let your true artist be the ultimate creator of what you produce.
@CozyRealmDream7 ай бұрын
My thoughts on AI: AI has its place. But we need to be aware that using it does limit our creativity and thinking, and the need to learn on our own. Manual digital art requires learning and putting more effort (physical and mental). On top of this, AI doesn't have impressions of the real world. Only we observe it directly and make our impressions of what something makes us feel and how we perceive it. AI doesn't have any access to this currently. It only takes people's art or pictures, and after processing them it would attempt to alter them to look like something else. It simply glues together various paintings or pictures (not ideally at all) and often you can still see them there, everything is just 'digested' by the AI. But without understanding. For example, we know what human hands do and what they are used for, but artificial intelligence sees them only as shapes, not physical objects, so it often twists them in unnatural ways. The same thing it does with books or articles. It takes what people made and digests it to look like something else without understanding what they speak about. The core is still man-made. AI can't create. We don't produce the substance (we aren't God), but in our minds we create new things that aren't there, impressions of what we see. And it's not based on just copying others. For example, Tolkien was inspired by the harsh world surrounding him most likely, or his life in general, so he started creating his own original world & lore. It started as something he knew from real life perhaps, but later he refined it, expanded it, and started to create & build lore on his own, far beyond simply copying and smashing things together (what AI does). A whole new world with complex details and continuity. We also combine things we see in creative ways. Like we make fairies out of human bodies and insect wings. But we aren't just producing products, as we are creators. And unlike AI, we attach meaning and try to understand the work we work on. Sometimes we give it its own life and biology (like with fairies) and lore and all. Above all, there is one main issue with AI, and it may never change. AI work looks artificial and is going to look artificial. Most won't tell, but there is a difference. If you draw on your own using lines guided by your hand, then there are going to be additional elements and imperfections. Our lines are influenced by various chaotic factors, and we make so many of them. This way something unique is made, even if we tried to copy someone else's work (whereas AI would just copy it 100% perfectly). Over time, as the AI grows more popular, people are going to value this imperfect part just as "handmade" quality is valued more already. It can actually become more pricey in the future, with not many putting the effort needed to create on their own. Everything AI made is going to end up feeling alike (through the popularity and commonness of it), whereas purely man-made work is going to start standing out. Currently, better results are going to come from a mixed approach (handmade + costly AI programs), not just pure AI. But I don't believe that 100% handmade would be gone; artists would simply have to focus on making their work distinct from the artificial and 'proper' looking AI stuff. Personally, I'm using some AI to make a few parts of my work easier. It is nice to upscale reference pictures, for example. But I'm putting effort into making most or all lines fully manually, with no settings to straighten them or make certain shapes "perfect". As there is a value in drawing imperfectly and the final result is appreciated more. Perfection has its place in clothing designs, but in other areas, manual work can pay off as well.
@Frippatronics7 ай бұрын
I am thankful that when AI got its big boom in the past year or so that I already had a few years worth of paintings under my belt. I saw a lot of my peers get discouraged or even just straight up quit around that time. One thing that stuck with me out of all the AI doomposting conversations i've read is that I think it will affect the next generation of artists a lot more than it will affect us. When you don't have a paper trail of proof that you've took the time to learn your craft than anything you post could come into question if it's legitimate or not. As of right now it's still pretty easy to tell apart AI art from human drawn artwork but that may not always be the case. I worry for future generations of artists even if I'm not necessarily all that experienced myself in the grand scheme of things. Thank you for sharing your thoughts I think it'd be really cool to have a place like the old forum days. I know discords are really popular right now and you can get a lot of people to group up pretty easily in there. Or even just bringing back those old forums would be nice. I know a lot of artists, myself included, don't always have the time for discord so having a forum that's slower might be more ideal I think that moving forward there will be more value tied to the artist and their personal creations than to commercial work. That might be the new wave is to pursue those ideas you've always had in the back of your mind and show people something that they never knew they wanted Side note I remember back in around 2016 I saw A9 and always wanted one but never had the means to get one. Plus I was way too much of an amateur to justify getting one back then lol I got one this Christmas and it's already been pretty invaluable to me. Thank you for all your hard work on these it ended up being everything I hoped it would
@Armaturenine7 ай бұрын
Thank you for sharing that and I'm so glad the figure has come in handy! - I totally agree that it's going to be roughest on the newer generation. My son was making stellar progress on his art skills and AI completely discouraged him. I've been trying to get that spark going again, but it's tough. We are clearly living in the age of videos, reels and short attention spans. So perhaps commercial artistry will simply need to find its footing in storytelling. Or in something that is so original, you'll have to go see exclusively shown at a digital art gallery. Or maybe we'll see digital artists return to traditional media. My plan is to carry on with my digital art but create artwork that won't be shown anywhere online and then publish a book so that buying the book becomes the only way people can see the art. And then perhaps use AI art to help create advertisements for it :D
@Frippatronics7 ай бұрын
That's sad to hear I hope your son gets the spark back in his life that's something that really provides so much to your growth as a person I think that does sound like a fun idea though to create something that can only be seen in a specific place as opposed to sharing it everywhere I hope that works out for you too
@Armaturenine7 ай бұрын
Thanks
@CharlineCaneton7 ай бұрын
Well, I'm not afraid by AI as I already choose to move out of art as a professional field in 2015 😂 reason : working for independant studios as a jack-of-all-trade made me less valuable on the market as every field become more and more specific. That broke my spirit more than I want to admit it, in a way the industry I loved made me outdated and unable to catch up. Too many unfair opponent. I really turned my back to art for a few years but a creative mind cannot deny its nature. Then with my non-artistic job paying the bills, I could afford the time and spend money were I wanted without stress. Magically I returned to my first goal, got big improvment after a couple years of training, now I am finally in position to produce for myself and by myself but very slowly. And bim, AI become a thing and suddenly I'm not a jack master of none, but master of all ! Definitely looking forward what AI is going to become. Oh, also my non-art field is one in first line to be replaced by AI 😂 and I think it's a good thing. Because software development is everywhere but cheap labor and cheap quality is a threat to anything. If AI can prevent data leaking, or stealing, by doing a better job than humans, all for the best !
@williammclean65947 ай бұрын
I was talking to my coworker about ai. And unfortunately everything is heading towards automation. Not just with art but alot of high paying jobs are being replaced by ai. Anybody who writes, codes, draws, mathematicians, CEO's anyone who uses a computer for work because ai can do those jobrs cheaper. My coworker told me most likely in 5 to 10 years we will see mass unemployment. And people who were making 50 to 100k a year will have to settle for jobs making 20k a year. They will probably introduce ubi universal basic income. Because people wont have to work anymore. It will be like the movie Wally were machines do everything for us. And it will be considered unsafe to use humans when machines can do the job more safely.
@Armaturenine7 ай бұрын
Yeah, it really does affect everyone that does work on a computer. I think back on all the pink slips Disney has issued to its artists over the years, while simultaneously asking them to train their replacements abroad in order to get their severance check. One of these days people will probably be asked to train a computer instead :/ To which I say, build your own business. Keep your expertise and build an army of AI's to help you be independent. It's quite possible we enter an era of extreme entrepreneurship where everyone is a business unto themselves. So it could be the beginning of a kind of renaissance if the government doesn't get in the way. That said, if neural networks are allowed to benefit from the creative capital of the people, it seems only fair that we should get a cut. On the other hand, I think it would be more beneficial to honor property rights and not allow AI's to train on content they don't have rights to.
@williammclean65947 ай бұрын
@@Armaturenine yeah I think they'll eventually put in regulations because people are going to resist AI as long as possible because nobody wants to be replaced. And a lot of countries. Even though that they know AI could like ruin the future. They don't stop developing it because then they'll fall behind communist countries like China who won't stop developing it. But if they do eventually introduce universal income and nobody has to work. I think that would be a good thing as well. You could spend your time doing what you want and not having to worry about money anymore. I found this channel on KZfaq that talks a lot about this and other AI stuff. The channel's name is David Shapiro. It's a really cool channel if you're interested.
@williammclean65947 ай бұрын
@@ArmaturenineI think they'll eventually put in regulations because people will resist AI as long as possible because nobody wants to be replaced. And even though that governments know that AI could be really bad for the future. They don't stop developing it because they'll fall behind countries like China who won't stop developing it. I think it would be cool if people could do what they want in the future and if they introduce like UBI that would be a good thing because we wouldn't have to worry about like working all the time and we could do what we want with our time. There's a channel on KZfaq that talks about this and other AI stuff. David Shapiro
@Armaturenine7 ай бұрын
@@williammclean6594 Cool thanks! I’ll check him out :) Indeed it would be really cool if life and our identity as humans distanced itself from being a utility to an employer and perhaps more of use to loved ones and our community. Not sure how much of a possibility that is when our rulers rely on tax revenue. But perhaps AI will take their jobs also :)
@digipaw17317 ай бұрын
Honestly I hate AI, i just graduated from college with the intent to get into the art side of the game industry. And having AI show up RIGHT when i graduated has caused me to have a fair number of existential crisises. I think AI is fundamentally different then the introduction of photography. Photography still takes alot of work to create and capture good photos. With lighting, composition, arenging the subject matter, etc. Its faster then a painting for sure, but its still a human doing it. Ai on the other hand doesnt have human input in creating. At most its far closer to the relationship between a comissioner and an artist. Where the comissioner tells the artist what they want, the artist makes it, then the comissioner potentially asks for revisions. The art was not made by the comissioner even if it was prompted by them to the artists. So having AI user say they created the art feels disingenuous to me. This also doesnt touch on how much shady buisness practices went into the creation of the data sets for most AI. Scraping images without permission of the artist to then make something for a profit is abhorent to me.
@Armaturenine7 ай бұрын
I totally hear you and I'm so glad you shared that. It makes me feel like I'm not alone or imagining things. Definitely the theft component is an important one. And it has really discouraged me from publishing new work online. Very true that AI is a unique breakthrough. A category that is unprecedented because it's essentially becoming a clone of human intelligence and sensibility. Whereas tools used to be something a person with intelligence would use. Here we have a tool that not only is the tool but could be the operator as well.
@bleepbloop1010101017 ай бұрын
Absolutely agree, AI artists are commissioning work, not creating it. The process they go through is the same as a commissioner. Had a pretty annoying argument about it with someone who claimed that being specific, cropping the work, or going back with a more specific prompt is what makes it art, like no, you're just collaborating with the actual artist. AI is also incapable of elevating the meaning of the original scraped artwork by default (ie no intention, also why it's not possible to copyright AI art) which to me gives the theft argument a solid leg to stand on. I think it will lead people to not post art online (as OP says in his response), leading to even more stagnation than just the issue of AI eventually scraping from AI.
@JohnJohn-yl4ko7 ай бұрын
I think A.I. is cool but just because i think its cool doesn't mean im going to ignore the problems that it brings and the people how would benefit from such mass amount of theft in the name of progress.
@Armaturenine7 ай бұрын
The issue of theft via training is truly a major ethical concern. However the buck stops with each of us because the ethics extends to users as well. When google image search came about, for example, many entitled themselves to using the results of those searches to photo-bash their own artworks into existence with no attribution to the original creator, let alone permission. I noticed this downward trend of theft among artists over a decade ago. It bothered me so I published my own photo library for artists so they could photo-bash ethically. And later the Armature Nine figure to aid in more 3d character work. Ultimately though, we can't control how people behave and when something becomes culturally endemic, all bets are off. Are you a digital artist, John? If so, how has AI affected you?
@JohnJohn-yl4ko7 ай бұрын
@@Armaturenine to be honest I'm at a beginners level at using Blender and so far I'm enjoying the difficulty it brings. But right now I am mostly learning to draw and trying to build my own armature out of wood and ball joints. As for how A.I affects me usually go on DeviantArt but I'm never going to post my works/progress there after the stunt they pulled with A.I. implementation on the website.
@Armaturenine7 ай бұрын
@@JohnJohn-yl4ko Very cool! I'm glad you're still feeling motivated to learn and create. I hadn't heard about the deviant art debacle. I read up on it just now. Apparently they're using stable diffusion, not their own artists (granted stable diffusion may have used them as a source without them knowing it). I can see why it would cause a rift between them and the community there.
@JohnJohn-yl4ko7 ай бұрын
@@Armaturenine thank you it means a lot. but yes the community would have been less angry and more welcoming if they didn't use underhanded tactics to implement those changes such as not being Opt-out by default.