People who don’t want to be politicians are exactly the kind of politicians we need!

Props to the dude who likes maths, someone has to :)

The girl whos saying she doesnt want to be a politician, cant wait to see her as a politician in the next 5+ years.

This is because the UK has the same problem as the US: viewing university as a training school for corporate jobs. It is not. It never was. University is where intellectually-inclined people go to study, to become scholars. It is not meant to train them in business or politics or even engineering. It is meant to teach them how to survey the scholarship of others and create their own scholarship in their chosen field. Of course this can be useful to corporations, but so can the work of people with a practical education. We are ruining the finances of students because they are paying universities to guarantee them better salaries in the workforce, and that's not what universities are set up to do. Stop insisting everyone needs a university education! Stop admitting people because of who their parents are! Stop perpetuating the lie that the university-educated are better at everything. They are only better at scholarship (and only that if they did well at uni).

The girl talking about needing more plumbers is absolutely right... but we also need more doctors! It's insane that junior doctors are still having to fight for wages that are even vaguely approaching a fair level!

Here’s the thing about manual (skilled) work. Yes you can earn a ton of money and be able to get relatively well paid work anywhere/time, and no, the AI’s not going to take your job, but it’s really hard on the body. I was an electrician for 25 years and I’ve got neck, shoulder, back, hip and knee problems and so have all older tradesman. I literally know 5 guys in their fifties who have to walk downstairs backwards coz their knees are shot

Interesting he mentioned the arms industry, because my cousin got straight As and A-level and instead of going to university, went to BAE Systems. Over the next 6 or 7 years, they paid for her entire education up to masters level.

I'm doing a master's degree at the moment, and to be honest, I'm pretty miffed that after two years of studying (part-time) and 11 grand, I'm still having to create a portfolio of work in my free time, using software that I've paid for myself, to show off the practical skills to employers.

In America, they discovered that the people who benefited the most from going to Ivy League universities are the people who were poorer to start with, and the main benefit wasn't the education, but the contacts they make. Which suggests the whole thing is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Oxford and Cambridge take a significant number of well-connected, rich people, so the chances of a good number of them going on to do something notable are extremely high. But that would have been the case regardless of whether they'd gone there.

I'd love to hear what students at Cambridge and a Russel Group university would say. You found some really thoughtful students, but it would be great to hear from some of those who went a few years ago too.

The guy with the wooly hat and denim jacket knows the score, nice to know that Oxford isn't 100% full of spoilt rich kids and those who actually have a brain and a conscience

Something not really touched on here is also that once you've got the degree, a lot of the more exclusive career paths expect you to do an unpaid internship which essentially filters out anyone who isn't already able to live comfortably on existing wealth and support.

Children of wealthy families do the Oxford courses with limited vocational prospects (Classics, Art History etc) that "working-class" people would never pay for, and then with their rubber stamp and connections go to work for a high-paying consultancy firm.

University is worth it, if you have an interest in a subject area it allows you an environment to study that topic, learn from experts in their field and study with others that have that shared interest. Students also meet and collaborate with people on a wide range of programmes and diverse interests. If the programme is taught well, no matter the subject, students should leave university not only as experts in their field but as strong communicators, problem solvers, people who are capable of applying logical critique to the information that they are dealing with etc etc. All of these are extremely valuable skills that can be taken into a variety of different work place settings. Universities also tend to be hubs of diversity in cultural and (depending on the institution) socioeconomic backgrounds, more people need experience of this to breed tolerance in our society, particularly the upper classes. The one area where it falls down is the belief that a degree should automatically equal an expert job in a specific discipline. It won't for everyone, students shouldn't pigeon hole themselves like that, but instead be confident that whatever career they end up choosing after university they will have a really valuable skill set and experience to draw on. A friend of mine went all the way through the education system, completed a PhD and worked at a university, before quitting to pursue her hobby (baking) as a career and now runs a successful cafe and bakery chain locally. She still draws on all of the skills that she built through those experiences, even though she is no longer doing science in a lab.

University is absolutely worth it if you study something that equips you with in demand skills. Or, you have FU money and you can indulge in a passion degree because you're not depending on it for employment opportunities. Unfortunately, people have bought into the myth that simply having a degree = satisfying, well paying job. A degree isn't just what you do after 'A' levels. It's an investment, so invest wisely.

11:23 "It's more just about talking in the right way and using the right social codes" Spot on. Every office job is this. Every single one.

The Oxford Unión has its own KZfaq channel. They post debates and talks from guests, well worth a look.

Props to the guy in the denim jacket and the girl studying PPE. They are 100% in tune with the working classes.

I feel so sad that people put so much worth into the job you get after university and not the experience of actually learning

Nice to see that the trend of attendees at Oxford has been changing and it's no longer some big rich boys clubs with serious neoptism, all of these people seem pretty grounded and reflective in reality not some little acdemia bubble world and there was a serious low arsehole vibe with all of them.

In my view you should do what you're good at and/or like doing. Not everyone is cut out to be a plumber, not everyone is cut out to do a job requiring strong intellectual skills. There's more to life than money.

Fair play , a patagonia hoodie and good at maths , heading straight for a hedge fund /quant or tech company.

Just found out your channel, and loving the content mate!! Lovey to see someone like you doing this. Thank you very much for the work you put out!!

The second girl, Millie we went to Bedes a while back, Many years we knew each other for , A very kind and intelligent woman, I'm happy she's doing well in life. I'm not doing plumbing but carpentry lol. Millie if you're reading this well done in life, You've got it together better than me! - Chris B

Im a self employed plumber and its not all roses! 😂 it depends on where you live because in a poorer area customers cant afford to pay big money.

As a society we have been taken in by the false narrative that a degree should lead to a well paid job and is worthless if it doesn't. This is nonsense. Mass university education benefits everyone by creating a well informed population who are better able to discern good quality information and therefore make better decisions (this does not necessarily work for each individual but the population as a whole). We only question the value of degrees because we have to pay for thousands for them and usually incur heavy debt. When degrees were free students did not have to burden themselves about whether their degree was worthwhile, and that's as it should be. I have just graduated in my 40s having already had a trade based career so I have seen both sides of this.

Degree apprenticeships are great, but they're also really hard if the uni is running the course properly. You get min 20% of your time off the job (or 80% on) and a three year degree streched over four years means that you're working 75% on your degree. So a workload of 155% makes for a tough 4 years.

I learnt a trade and went to uni. I'm now an electrician with a bachelors and to top it off HGV drivers license. I will never be out of work.

Whatever Degree you have, having one from Golden triangle Universties will open doors. My undergrad from a former poly and postgrad show very different levels of respect.

I didn't attend university ( just A levels ) but have interviewed university students for part time positions within a retail environment. Those who just saw it as beneath them we didn't recruit but a select few saw it as an opportunity to apply skills they would learn which could be transferred into their chosen field. Some even stayed with the company and became senior leaders.

I don't know what I would have done without my degree, did it later in life (late 20's) went from living in one of the worst towns in the whole country to a situation where I'm now an educator teaching the subject I love to 16-18 year olds. The only shame is it's FE Public sector work and we've not had a pay increase for 12 years or more and we've seen the sector depleted of staff and resources.

It's only the fourth-year maths student who really seemed to belong in university, and he got in on a scholarship. He was also by far the most likable of the interviewees.

They won't do these jobs themselves.... the plumber stereotype is bit outdated all the fines stress unpaid invoices etcetera with companies like pimlico and access on top of it....

I went to university at the age of 26. I didn't finish my degree. It was worth it. I have had a very different upbringing to every person I met in university. What I learnt from my course, the important stuff, had nothing to do with the course itself. I learnt how to autonomously learn. Nothing in my entire life has been more valuable than the ability to learn effectively. I was in my second year by the time I realized, I no longer got anything from the course or the material. So I left. I think university can only supply what you as an individual demands from it. For me, it was independence. It was all I needed. I'd recommend it, but only as an experience that can be achieved elsewhere.

My school's metric for success was the percentage of students gaining university admission. They also "invited" you to apply for Oxbridge - that is to say you could only get a reference if they deemed you were made of the right stuff. The career counsellor at the school did nothing but ask us what course we would be interested applying for. I was so pressured into going to uni I ended up choosing the wrong course for me. I hope it's different these days. A lot of the most successful and happy people I know never went to university. I wish I knew what I know now!

I absolutely loved uni. I worked in my field for a decade (healthcare), but left because shift work made me ill. I now work in admin and have better work life balance. Uni is a business, and you are paying for an experience. There are no guarantees.

I’m a HNC qualified electrical engineer. I was offered the chance to do a degree in Quantity Surveying degree part time and employer would pay. Both very scarce industries. Not media studies or law which are saturated.

It would be fantastic to do a catch up with each of these individuals in say 5 or 10 years to see where they end up

As a factory worker it is very comforting knowing there are a new generation of kids studying how to keep me safe in my job.

*I LITERALLY HAD THIS CONVERSATION YESTERDAY* I used to earn £20 an hour as an "odd job man"* in 2002, just painting fences, cleaning gutters, weeding gardens. NO AI is going to come and paint your fence or plumb your new sink in. * it was a surprisingly rewarding job, I met lots of people from all walks of life, different job every day, never got boring.

Dude in the hat is right, for most jobs a degree tells an employer that you can show up when required to and do the work. For many corporations what the particular degree is in isn't that important.

I remember having a good chat with my house mates in 2000, my final year. We'd just been through the transitional period of university funding of the late 90s, we still got tuition paid for but it was just before it all became 100% student loans. What we realized was: GCSEs and A levels got easier (more A grades, year on year), more colleges or other institutions becoming universities, more people getting into those, less people going straight from school to the job centre, grants got removed, loans increased putting the financial burden on the individual, not the state. And a lot of that was paid back into the government via cigs and booze. And maybe some of those people might learn something and get a good job. Everyone else is stuck with life long debt.

University is still a valuable option if you have a good reason for going. Most students go because the schooling system is geared for it and doesn't really provide any other options. The issue is however that when everyone has a degree it's not really that important anymore. I'm currently doing an MSc because my job requires it - but I wish my school had taught me that I could have gone straight into work witho just A levels and had the employer send me for an undergrad and masters through a DA. I feel if more young people chose a course (not necessarily a university course) based around what they will find valuable doing in a career they'd opt more for apprenticeships etc. Most of the people I went to university with either ended up insomething they hate, working in retail/bars, or gave up and became a teacher. If schools opened the door for more people to go into a career field they enjoy I think the current university business model would reduce and become more valuable again.

If everyone did vocational skills the average amount of money they make would drastically drop.

It's reassuring to know that many of the current generation of students are aware that there could be a significant change within the establishment and that the prospect of acquiring considerable financial debt may not be the most prudent decision at the beginning of a person's life, education and career. More awareness is needed regarding the true impact of this debt.

Uni has become a business, and the schools feed into it.

Charming engaging young students. All. Where'ja find 'em. Fresh and open. No edge, snide side nor 'message', guarded response nor fear of a stranger mic. Maybe it was you. Good one.

My school told me I wouldn't be successful or get a good job without a degree... After 4 years, 60k in debt and a diagnosis of depression, I have a music degree! I am now a bricklayer...

Playing devil’s advocate, I know so many people who have reached a ceiling or are stagnating in their various sectors (which require a degree for promotion) and are now doing OU, in their mid 30s, with 3 kids, a mortgage etc. Sounds horrendous. I’m glad I did Uni young.

I work in the construction industry, and not one of the team members has a degree. My electrician earns £50 a hour. Double on a Saturday and treble that on a bank holiday. My boss the MD, went to university he said it was a complete waste of time. Now his set to retire at 42. Roofers, plumbers and electricians are paid very well, labourer are roughly £20 per hour. Most of team buy properties at auctions do them up and sell them on. You are better of doing that as the property markets is so buoyant at the moment. Whether you Alan Sugar no degree to Pimilco plumbers no degree it's not always necessary to go to uni especially the so called Russell group universities.

It used to be that an Oxbridge degree was a passport to a well paid job. Not so much today. Globalisation and advances in tech have decimated graduate salaries. Many large corporations are not bothering with milk round unless it is written into the job description of executives to do so or clients of the corporations push to have their son or daughter taken on as an intern or new recruit. I’d advise undergraduates to pick their careers carefully, preferably ones that will not be eroded by tech. In particular, this is true for those on the downside of advantage who don’t have the luxury of contacts to help them.

Good video with a good range of perpectives. I am studying marine engineering at a non Russell’s group university and for sure I will be employed once I have my degree. I started at uni at 26, instead of 18 Which I believe it was a better decision as I was not in the best frame of mind when I was younger.

There is an enormous difference between non-Russell group universities and top universities such as the collages at Oxford, Cambridge, London. Elite universities have milk rounds, where prospective employers compete for new hires.

Sadly, we're not all academically minded, I'm a practical person, hands on. More suited to a trade skill set, which I do, as a full time job. Many trades and artisan crafts are becoming lost because there are very few apprenticeships being offered or even taken. Not everyone can be a doctor, politician, financial director etc.

Schools are job getters, in general. Posted a job in Canada with a steep learning curve - loads of interest, yet hired a less experienced young woman fresh from LSE. Good decision.

They do from Russell group universities in STEM and as long as you pick up internships and relevant experience. I went to University Of York and Masters from US, worked in high finance, making over $500k

You should consider why highly skilled men are leaving the building trades in droves. Do you think that would be happening if we were all rolling in money and life was easy? Most folk don’t understand the difference between turnover and profit, gross and net so see only charges and think that’s the end of it. The trades are hard graft, long and unsociable hours, working only at customer whims, dangerous in many ways including tools, poisonous dust including asbestos, risk of falling from heights, biological hazards from human waste and soil, high UV exposure, and so on. The running costs including accounting, insurance, vehicle, training, certification and much more are simply unsustainable. Van and tool thefts are at epidemic levels and are increasingly perpetrated by organised and violent gangs. All office bods have pensions, paid holidays, illness or injury cover, death in service and the like. Guys in the trade mostly don’t have any of that. If anyone is looking at the building trades as a decent way to make a living then I advise to keep looking.

Left school at 15 , have my own plastering company and earn £100k + a year. Don’t think I’ve done too bad.

The kind of students that get into Oxford(most of them, not the prep school oxbridge factory types) should go to university. It’s the hundred of thousands of people with business studies/management/psychology degrees from post 1992 universities that should have learned a trade to actually benefit the economy and society as a whole.

I believe that University was a good investment. I recently studied to be a Chartered Accountant through University of South Africa. My salary improved significantly after finishing university along with significantly improved job security. Now 2 months salary amounts to all my 4 years university fees combined. So it really had a good return on investment.

Oxford rubber stamp will help you find a good job on very big ladder.Any student with a 2.1 will also stand a chance also depends on location varying other factors.Also going to university also opens up another degree later on in some subjects if change career.Looks better on a CV than nothing perhaps as shows commitment in area of interest for employers hard to get oppotunitys in sector closed to public so has its advantages.Most billionaires are degree educated.

Plumbers get paid like £13 an hour in the north. They get paid more in London because its more expensive to live there. On the other hand medical students work for free for up to 5 years while getting themselves in massive debt.

They all seem like really great people. Really honest, which I wasn’t expecting to be honest

I went to university in Hull to do computers, there where only 2 courses to choose from at the time and schools started to push pupils into computing and the wages plummeted, now I am an electrician, much better money and your not stuck in an office.

Going to university was so so worth it to me - but I went as a mature student with very specific goals.

I've always thought we ask the wrong questions about if uni is still worth it. For me it's simple...We should be asking: "what do you want to do for a job/career?" And if that career needs a degree, then yes University is worth it

As an experienced quality assurance officer and assessor for apprenticeships (with 2 traditional degrees 😉), I can tell you that the quality of delivery is not at the same level as you will find in traditional degrees quite yet and unfortunately it's still those with a degree already who are more likely to be chosen for an apprenticeship because they are most likely to pass with distinction which makes the training provider look good to Ofsted. 😬 Still, look into apprenticeships or degreeships and see if you can save money on fees!! Best of luck to all ✨️

I always resented my grandpa for talking about my cousin as in 'He'll rise high in life, I don't know about that other kid (me). My cousin became an Oxford graduate and has done well in life, but he walked away from a great career. I got my degree at Victoria university in Wellington, NZ and have done reasonably well. I reckon having an Oxford degree on your CV by your early or mid 20s can be a great platform, as long as you know who to work for.

I got rejected from Cambridge a few days ago and it hurt a lot. It’s very hard for me to get over the fact that I will not being going to the best university for my subject since I love it so much and I’m terrified of not getting as much out of it. I know it shouldn’t, but it frankly saddens me to know that people going to Oxbridge can be so nonchalant about their subjects and their futures. I plan to be exceptional in life and not going to Oxbridge won’t stop that, but I wish there was not such an emphasis on them as the people that go there are obviously smart (in some ways), but not necessarily special. A degree is more likely to be worth it if you are getting one for more reason that simple prestige.

People mention the debt aspect a lot but it is worth mentioning you only start paying your debt off in the UK if you make over a certain amount. It depends on your student loan you have but if you have a Plan 1 you only need to start repaying when you make over £22k a year. If you’re on Plan 1 and have an income of £33,000 a year, you'd only repay £82 a month which is not that bad at all.

I worked for Pyramid Engineering Services in South London from 2000, involved making fibre-optic devices processing machines and commission them in various countries, for the then international broadband online explosion, then. 👍🙂

1978-1985 I studied mechanical engineering at a technical college. 4 years of this was as an indentured apprentice. I did the extra few years at college to finish my ONC and gain my HNC in Mechanical Engineering. First year of my apprenticeship in 1978 was full time at technical college , there were three groups of apprentices Each with about 12 lads in , either training as mechanical engineers or maintenance engineers . This was repeated in another part of the college with apprentices training in fabrication ,plater welders with a similar number of apprentices . There was also a couple of groups from the CEGB (central electricity generating board) . All of this has now long gone along with our industrial base . We have gone from a country of Engineers and the birthplace of the industrial revolution, to a nation where most people are incapable of fixing a puncture in a pushbike.

University is not just about training. That's a weird notion that seems to be coming up a lot these days. University should be about an actual desire to learn in depth about a subject that you're passionate about.

Getting a degree has opened doors for me that didn't exist before

It really depends on what you do at university. Someone who is trained in engineering or natural sciences or math or informatics is very different from someone trained in french literature of the 18th century. The latter will probably not be as well paid as the aforementioned and may even have difficulties to find a job where his skills can be used.

Wow these guys are notably more sensible than the folks I ended up chatting to while they were at Oxford.

It's kind of ironic people think plumbing is easy. Why you need a plumber in the first place if that's SO easy?

It’s also worth noting that you can study and do a degree just because you like the subject and because you value the learning rather than just for a job. I did my BA years ago and that was because there were no viable options at the time, there was no working apprenticeship scheme, very few jobs in my area etc etc but I did my MBA because I wanted to be better at my job and that really helped. Do I earn a ton? No. Do I earn more than the average? Yes. Do I regret it and wish I’d have accepted building site misogyny and become an electrician instead because I fucking love doing electrical installations both in homes and cars in my spare time? Yes. I’d be way better off than I am now 😂

I was an educated person in a working class area. When I first went to Oxford (as a visitor, not a student), I remember sitting in a bar and there were a group of 5 approximately 30 year olds at the table next to me (probably not students anymore). I remember being amazed that they were talking about physics and not about 'battering' someone as I always used to hear in my home town. Consistently I found people like this around Oxford. Whilst I was a good student and got a BSc and MSc, I wasn't Oxford class, but felt at home in Oxford. Such a nice place and nice people.

It depends on the degree. When I went to Uni I took Engineering, got a good well paid job straight away. I know people that took arts or social degrees did not get good jobs (well paid jobs). I do agree that the grade also counts for a lot.

There's a lot of negativity in the comments here about Uni, but rest assured, there's a ton of people getting value out of it, both from the learning and the job prospects. Also the idea of the debt is blown way out of proportion, the increase in your potential earning far outweighs how much you'll actually repay. And this is coming from someone who loses a decent amount to student debt.

I wish I never went to university way back when. Learned more in my high street job and became an engineer because of it.

Great interviews

Firstly, love PoliticsJoe content - really good stuff great journalism. One negative, could you not use the front-loaded sound bites again throughout the video? It kind of punishes viewers who are engaged in the video. Either way, keep it up!

I'm a pleb who did a PhD at a non-elite school but I got to go to a conference in Oxford and I stayed in Somerville college. It was an amazing place, I can understand why people pursue education there. Also, I think a big reason why a lot of kids go to university these days is because it allows them to avoid the reality of a job for a few more years and no one wants to go into the trades because it's actual hard work.

As an uneducated oik I'm assuming PPE is Philosophy, Politics, & Economics? Help anyone?

11:05 this guy is pretty spot on. Being able to network with the right people, especially on the work floor. Combine that with good work ethics and making the right decisions at the rights time will get you far.

This is a question that each individual can only answer for themselves.

If I could go back in time and have a word with myself I'd tell myself not to go to university.

Students are just another financial pawn that adds to GDP. Student debt since 2010 has just hidden the loss of GDP since 2008.

I've only recently understood that I got a B.A. from an American university simply to be taken seriously; it was the thing to do, without which doing would have separated me from mainstream America. I should add that the degree did very little for me. (I consider myself to be a writer/editor.) My prospective employers in a declining society were often either unable to judge my language skill, so didn't hire me, or WERE able to judge my language skill so were afraid I would overshadow theirs. One more thing: I paid off my student loan within a year of graduation.

With the system has it stands though the "debt" does not matter since it operates more like a tax and it doesn't affect your credit score. So, while it is daunting to see the amount you've borrowed, you pay only when you earn enough and it comes out through the tax system. The main issue at the moment though is that maintenance loans etc., have not increased inline with inflation (cf. Martin Lewis). So, this needs to be addressed asap.

I am ask sick to the back teeth of hearing that apprenticeship is just as good as going to university. When did an apprenticeship in what was supposed to be in civil engineering, (well it was mostly an apprenticeship in working the photocopier) learnt nothing a tall useful, earnt less than minium wage, and left after about three years with severe depression. I learnt more about engineering in the first three weeks at university than I did in the dump of an office I was stuck working in.

Pleased to say that not all of us engineering grads end up selling weapons of mass destruction ❤

What we really need is a jobs market which balances a good intellectual education with some hands on practical skills i.e a balance of the two. So no desk/IT job without a caring job or a practical skills job. These days most practical skills are easy enough to pick up and quick to train for.

They relate to lifestyle so well, 3-6 years off added education is 7 -10% of years lost in life, a lot of time

If we've more plumbers, electricians, locksmiths and whatnot, the call out and repair charges should come down to earth. Simple. Supply and demand.

Thoughtful comments, though I wish people wouldn't say 'like' as much.

My son quitted school at 16, moved to service and maintenance apprenticeship. Pretty good pay package + benefits for his age. After two years, he finished his course at 19 and decided to leave. The company offered him further into degree apprenticeship, he declined. He found a new job within a week with better pay. Although he is knackered everyday coming home, he is very happy & upbeat with his life.

I am aiming to become an educational psychologist, which requires you to first have a BPS accredited degree in psychology at 2:1 or above (which I am about to complete at Royal Holloway) and the equivalent of 12 months of full-time relevant work experience (which I am also in the middle of building simultaneously). I made a decision on the basis of the recognition of practical necessity. I am basically building my profile to meet the entry requirements for an EdPsyD, the funded doctoral training programme which enables one to practice. I am on track to get there, and I anticipate that I can begin that paud training in two years. Even with the debt I have accumulated, I have already analysed the prospective income for an educational psychologist as one incrementally progresses throughout their career and it is worth it, not just from a financial standpoint, but also the sentimental attachment I have developed to the career due to certain anecdotal experiences. But it really all depends.