ASUS P2B Restoration: Board #4

ASUS P2B Restoration: Board #4 - Genuine Boards!

Рет қаралды 5,674

Күн бұрын

We're at the midpoint! Three out of the six ASUS P2B boards are back in action. Today, we'll tackle the fourth board, which appears to be in decent shape. But, as experience tells us, appearances can be deceiving. Plus, we'll delve deeper into the story of counterfeit motherboards.
Article about fake ASUS P2B motherboards: www.gmw.cn/01gmrb/1999-02/03/...
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▬▬▬▬ Timestamps ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
00:00 Intro
01:20 Rework traces
04:07 First test
05:08 Find the fault
06:03 MOSFET
08:36 Second test
10:24 Genuine boards?
11:54 BIOS version sticker

Пікірлер: 108

@minutemanqvs Ай бұрын

Do you actually know what the Asus chip is, and if it’s a generic thing, what can be used as replacement? Or was it a custom thing?

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

What I could find out is the ASUS AS97127F is a monitoring IC. It seems to be a clone of the Winbond W83781D. I hope this helps.

@SianaGearz Ай бұрын

@@bitsundbolts It's been described as a "clone" and they are indeed indistinguistable to software, but that would be funny. For one this is way outside the expertise of ASUS but exactly in exprtise of Winbond, copying such a mixed signal IC wouldn't be easy; and for other the chip came out Nov. 1997 by Winbond, and ASUS says copyright year 1997 on their chip, it would be funny if they really cloned the chip in ONE MONTH? They have different package, the Winbond is 48 pin and ASUS is 100 pin. Quite a difference. I think ASUS commissioned a chip off Winbond, and allowed Winbond to sell it openly by removing some pins and undocumenting corresponding features, but sharing the same die. Some RESERVED notes in datasheet are expected, but some are a little conspicuous!

@SianaGearz Ай бұрын

@@bitsundbolts Bloody hell the machine that be is shadowbanning me from the comments again. Shows up in "newest first" though.

@SianaGearz Ай бұрын

The Winbond W83781 is a cut down version of ASUS AS97127F, by all reason sharing the same die, but with only 48 pins instead of 100, and with some conspicuous "RESERVED" bits in the datasheet (besides the normal ones that you do expect). If you want to replace one with another, well good luck, given the pinout of the ASUS chip is not documented.

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

Sometimes it takes time for comments to appear. Not sure what type of checks they all go through.

@rodhester2166 Ай бұрын

Something so satisfying seeing retro computer parts return to life. cheers.

@mtunayucer Ай бұрын

thanks to these p2b videos i couldnt resist and bought my own p2b, revision 1.10! Which has the coppermine compatible power regulator onboard. Hopefully will pair it with Coppermine 550mhz.

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

Congratulations! I hope you'll have a lot of fun with this board!

@mtunayucer Ай бұрын

@@bitsundbolts yes! I also have the rare 1ghz slot1 native cpu, but it has 133mhz front side bus. Would overclocking fsb on bx boards hurt them in the long run?

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

Funny you say that. I don't want to spoil too much, but I pulled two 1GHz/133 FSB from the scrapyard recently. I haven't tested them yet, but they will come in a video very soon! I don't think it will hurt, however, I do have some content coming up regarding the clock generator... Waiting for replacements to arrive. Oh, there is so much more I want to do with those boards!

@mtunayucer Ай бұрын

@@bitsundbolts lets gooo!

@spavatch Ай бұрын

Here’s a video idea for you, Mr BuB: turning a P2B-S into a fully fledged P2B-LS. The ‘only’ difference it’s a sticker changing the model name and some missing components responsible for onboard LAN. Do you think it’s possible to do such upgrade?

@tigheklory Ай бұрын

Looks like that NEC MOSFET is getting hot and the solder melting. I would suggest a small heatsink if you plain on keeping the boards.

@fft2020 Ай бұрын

I have absolutly no doubt that ALL those motherboards will be working when this video series is over :)

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

I have a feeling that you're right! 😅

@tony359 Ай бұрын

the old trick of the sticker under the sticker :) Amazing! It's so interesting to see how some of those traces just... disappeared and a black line is left behind! :) Thanks for the video!

@wasd____ Ай бұрын

If they're counterfeit boards, but nonetheless working perfectly, they're potentially even more interesting as collectable retro hardware pieces. That's sort of a weird paradox of period-produced counterfeits in collectables markets; there's usually a lot less of them than there are of the genuine thing, and being rare or even one-offs makes them special. Known counterfeit coins, for example, can sometimes sell for a lot. As long as it's not a current product where unauthorized copies would hurt the legitimate manufacturer, and an item's counterfeit status is known and fully marketed up front so a buyer knows exactly what they're getting, some counterfeit items are actually very valuable pieces of history. In this case, I think they're legit Asus boards, though.

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

Interesting take. I also believe that all six boards are genuine boards. Even though ASUS said there should be none or only a very limited quantity of revision 1.04.

@DefenderOfBoston-yo2tl Ай бұрын

Hah, I expected these boards to be genuine all along, glad to hear they indeed are! 👍🏻 Looks like it's gonna be a flawless victory too, since it's pretty much downhill from board #3? 🤞🏻

@xephorce Ай бұрын

another amazing video. and this time the music was outstanding. i didn't mind this beats. thank you for always spoiling your subs. its just relaxing to watch ya fix stuff. THank you again

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

Thank you

@przemysawrak5059 Ай бұрын

Podziwiam Cię za wiedze i umiejętności, dobra robota 👍

@SianaGearz Ай бұрын

I suspect cleaning the printer connector is possible by electrocleaning. You simply solder all the pins together at the board side and then run current through it in an elecrtrolyte bath just like electroplating, but in reverse. Then you can nickel electroplate it. Nickel solution can be prepared at home, but you should get a high quality electrode. Also give it time don't rush it on initial preparation, use least salt possible, and i've found citric acid to be nicer to work with than acetic. I haven't tried electrocleaning yet but i have done plating. Don't store your prepared solution in a container with a steel lid, it will be eaten, even if the lid is rubber lined. Use a HDPE container.

@LuminousWatcher Ай бұрын

Greetings Bits und bolts. thank you for all your videos. They are educational, and double noistalgic to me, since I can see you are currently based in the Middle East, where we where stationed when I have most of my pc gaming memories from. Thank you for sharing your journey with us,. (and I find it hilarious that you say "WE have experience fixing corroded traces" I would find fixing traces quite dautning. "Machen Sie weiter so mit der fantastischen Arbeit" - and I love the dry humor

@johnmay4803 Ай бұрын

i love motherboard resto vids thank you they are fantastic

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

Thank you!

@Stratotank3r Ай бұрын

Well done again! I think that all boards a genuine.

@xenoxaos1 Ай бұрын

My guess is that the mosfets were on an old spool when doing pic and place. Probably a spool not kept dry between runs.

@lexluthermiester Ай бұрын

@BitUndBolts To me, at this point in time, it really doesn't matter whether or not they are real. If they work as intended and do the job, they are of value. Back in the day, sure it would have been a problem. But now it's very interesting and if you do have a few "fakes", then you have collectors items. Either way, they have value!

@vonhapen1 Ай бұрын

That confident (german I assume) "Ja..." @08:50 - could have been me. 😁 Very, very nice work. I really looking forward for every P2B restoration video on friday. 👍

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

Your assumption is correct 😅. Glad you enjoy the videos! Thanks for watching

@Ale.K7 Ай бұрын

Yay! :D It would have been interesting if one of the boards had been fake, to compare it with the real ones... and as cool artifact!

@AladimBR Ай бұрын

You can have a dessolder machine blowing hot air (at 100C) on the chip label before removing it. It softens the glue, makes it much easier.

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

I was too lazy to get my hot air station out. Living in an apartment with all this equipment isn't easy. I need to stow away the stuff I don't use otherwise my wife is going to kill me.

@awilliams1701 Ай бұрын

bet its nice to get an "Easy" one for a change especially after the last few weeks.

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

Oh absolutely! That gives me time to work on other things I want to explore on those boards. Especially regarding the 133 MHz FSB and some weak voltages that may cause memory issues.

@herauthon Ай бұрын

i got one - it worked - P3/500/256 - 256/100 REG - QFB 24G but after a few reboots.. no go.. sleepy

@krizator Ай бұрын

This is genuine mobo. It was obvious from the beginning.

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

I agree. I believe those are genuine ASUS P2B rev 1.04. Edit: I missed the dot at the end of the revision number 😉

@arnlol Ай бұрын

I wonder if at least one of them will start up first try, but anyways we are getting closer to the 6 out of 6 fixed. That one certainly wasn’t as bad as the previous two at least, I wonder how those boards got corroded like this…

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

Haha, two more boards and the chance that one will work at first try! Unfortunately, I have no idea what happened to those boards. Luckily, the worst part is over, I believe!

@MonochromeWench Ай бұрын

It looks genuine and I wonder if maybe the MOSFET problem only affects genuine boards and the others are counterfeit.

@SidebandSamurai Ай бұрын

I believe they are genuine. everything points to this.

@romanrm1 Ай бұрын

12:28 потрачено!!!! Autenticity is wasted :D

@lazibayer Ай бұрын

Well, if it looks like a p2b, works like a p2b, and smells like a p2b, i would say it's a genuine p2b😂

@sebastian19745 Ай бұрын

It seems that many ASUS motherboards had that sticker with BOIS version under the shiny BIOS sticker. My p/i-p55tp4xe have it too and I saw it on many other old ASUS motherboards.

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

I have seen the silhouette of the sticker below the award bios sticker many times. I never gave it much thought. However, since it was mentioned in that article, I had to look underneath.

@Santia558 Ай бұрын

👍

@Wikcentral Ай бұрын

I wish I could remember who or where my P2B board went to. I have the urge to rebuild my old P2 350 Voodoo3 win98 gaming rig.

@RKelleyCook Ай бұрын

99% sure those boards are real Asuses. Don't recall seeing one for this particular model, but counterfeit boards I ran into from that era were complete crap, chips wouldn't be quite parallel, writings on the PCB looked like it had gone through a copy machine 10 times and/or random misspellings were all over the place. More importantly, they usually failed within a few months.

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

What you're describing regarding fakes does not apply to those boards at all. They look and feel like high quality boards - and all of them power on without recapping. Let's face it, I just reconnected some copper traces. My repairs weren't rocket science since all ICs still function! So, I agree with you. I'm also convinced that those boards are genuine.

@SianaGearz Ай бұрын

I had a counterfeit ASUS HX430 board. Allegedly, according to our ASUS rep, manufactured in India. Every single sign listed matched the description of differences sent out in the press release, including the details of the antistatic bag, the manual, the stickers and silkscreens on the board. It was mint, i would have never guessed! And i ran it for 3 years too, overclocked it back and forth, it ran well, it was nice, really nice! It overclocked better than a Chaintech, and in turn that overclocked better than all sorts of... usual boards that were around, LuckyStar (garbage) FIC etc. It was baby-AT. In fact same model i think as BuB already worked on, the P55T2P4.

@user-wy6iy7ij1z Ай бұрын

Dude, your soldering iron must be very good, because solder on motherboards is very difficult to remove, even on new motherboards, on old ones like this it must be even more difficult

@SianaGearz Ай бұрын

Pardon? Solder, remove? Yes iron is good but flux is really doing some heavy lifting here.

@user-wy6iy7ij1z Ай бұрын

@@SianaGearzsorry, english is not my first language. I wanted to say weld. Motherboard weld is really hard, you need a lot of heat to soften it, even with flux. And the motherboard being old, complicates it even more. I use my soldering iron with the hot air station, because the soldering iron alone is not enough.

@wasd____ Ай бұрын

@@SianaGearz Yeah, it's really all about the flux, and about mixing in new low-melt solder with the old harder original solder to make it easier to melt and remove by wicking it away.

@Thelemorf Ай бұрын

Actually easier on older hardware, atleast old enough to still have leaded solder.

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

I still use the FNIRSI HS-01. It's pretty good and I have been using it since I reviewed it. The bevel tip seems to do well and transfers a lot of heat to the board. Edit: and of course, flux is a must and does help a lot!

@SidneyCritic Ай бұрын

If the fake P2Bs use cheap/worse caps, what did they do, copy/fake them as well, ie, are the caps the same brand. Like how identical are they, ie, 1 full-stop difference seems more like a different batch.

@alexloktionoff6833 Ай бұрын

Might somebody knows about model for 3D printer of the plastic frame to avoid that wobbling of slotcket? For tualatins in Slot1 it's a real pain especially because of huge heatsink

@dracoix Ай бұрын

"and it bewts" \o/

@JamieBainbridge Ай бұрын

Man what was the song around 6:45? That's some epic motherboard fixing tune.

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

The track is Digifunk - DivKid

@charonunderground8596 Ай бұрын

I also liked this son. Well, and as usual great job and another mainboard saved.

@JamieBainbridge Ай бұрын

@@bitsundbolts Thank you!

@jonsmith5087 26 күн бұрын

Hi quick question - does your Pc analyser card work in the ISA slot when testing post - mine stops the board from posting in ISA but works fine when in the PCI slot

@bitsundbolts 26 күн бұрын

I usually use it in PCI Slots due to its orientation facing me. But I did use it on occasion in ISA slots and never experienced such an issue.

@jonsmith5087 23 күн бұрын

@@bitsundbolts ok thanks for ur confirmation - i was putting in the wrong way - it faces away from me - the "rear" is the back of the PC not the back of the card ha ha - i just wanted to test the isa slots without having to boot into a system - this works

@bitsundbolts 23 күн бұрын

Wow! Great that you found out what the issue was! I always wondered what will happen if I plug it in wrongly. I thought it would damage the board. But I guess not...

@ricargoncalves Ай бұрын

How can that power transistor detach from the board so often? It's beyond my reasoning... But after the other repairs, this one was like a piece of cake :P Are you making the voltage regulator mod to all boards? I believe those boards deserve that upgrade, especially after all the effort you put into them! Even if these boards are counterfeit, do you think there is any downside (as long as they work of course)?

@SianaGearz Ай бұрын

They call this a "cold solder joint" but that's a misnomer. That happens if you have a batch of expired components. Have you seen the oxide layer on the bottom of the transistor? Naturally it's grown with time, but it's been there from day 1 of board's life. Expired solder paste or badly chosen proces parameters can contribute. There is always a little oxide but since it wasn't broken through by the flux in the solder paste, it was likely thicker than usual, and it just grows on components as they spend time in storage on their original reel. The boards are from the same batch. There must have been a small sliver of connected or grabbing solder at the very edge of the tab so it would have worked at first and the defect would have been invisible, except on X-Ray. This is why serious manufacturers generally reject components that are a little old, and then they land in Huaqiangbei markets below cost for someone else to try their hand.

@ricargoncalves Ай бұрын

@@SianaGearz I didn't think of that, but makes a lot of sense! But in that case @bitsundbolts should make a close inspection to the transistor on the boards that worked without the need of fixing it.

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

Since I'll be selling the boards after I'm done with all of them, you'll be able to pick what should happen to the board. You can get it as is after the repair, or get the voltage regulator replacement, an additional recap, or some other mods I'm looking into right now. Regarding the transistors that are still ok: I have no possibility to test if the solder connection is still good. So, there is a possibility that they will snap off. Maybe I do a precautionary reflow on this particular transistor for all the boards before they leave Dubai - just to be sure.

@Resolute115 Ай бұрын

Hi! I have a similar ASUS P2-99 board with an "auto start" issue. When I turn on surge protector, the computer turns on itself for 1-2 seconds and turns off. Then it turns on normally from the PWR_ON button. I'm afraid it's killing hard drive. Have you encountered a similar issue?

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

Two of those P2Bs turned on the moment I connected the power supply. I'm not sure how this is possible. There shouldn't be any power from the ATX power supply unless the power signal is triggered. There must be some electrical signal that causes the power supply to turn on. In my case, the boards remained on. Why your board shuts off after a few seconds is indeed weird. Do you constantly toggle between surge protection?

@Resolute115 Ай бұрын

@@bitsundbolts Thanks for reply! Same behavior when connected PSU directly to an outlet. It seems that every time power is applied, the motherboard starts up to initialize the BIOS. I read somewhere that this is normal behavior, but I did not find any official documents confirming this issue.

@kunka592 Ай бұрын

@@Resolute115 Pretty sure my Asus P2-99 does that as well.

@przemysawrak5059 Ай бұрын

W biosie powinny być ustawienia do tego...Suspend...

@aspinx Ай бұрын

Just in case - there is an option in BIOS that determines what to do when the power is applied. Possible values are - "turn on, stay off or previous state". I'd check that option first (or reset CMOS, cause I think default is either "off" or "previous state")

@Constantin314 Ай бұрын

well, this was a quick repair, wasn't it?! :)) the GPU, by any chance, is it the Gigabyte Radeon Maya 9000 Pro? i had one back in the days (not ay more unfortunately)! :)

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

It is a Radeon 9000, but I'm not sure if it's the Pro. I got this one during my last trip to the scrapyard and it looked decent. So, I decided to take it. And yes, that was a quick repair... Seems like I left the easier board for last. But that gives me the opportunity to explore other things!

@Constantin314 Ай бұрын

@@bitsundbolts awesome GPU, BuB. it was my first Ati GPU. i found an Excel with all the systems that i built and i couldn't believe that i recognized it in your video. Can't wait for your next adventure aka video, of course! :)

@matthewday7565 Ай бұрын

Am I counting right, 4 for 4? Are you saving an absolute shocker for last?

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

Yes we're at 4 working boards - two more to go. I think board #2 was the shocker. I don't think the last two will be a challenge, but that gives me the opportunity to look into other things. Board #5 will be very little repair - even though there was an unexpected surprise. But I'll answer another question I always had and wanted to answer.

@khachaturian100 Ай бұрын

The article doesn't explain how the counterfeiters obtained the custom Asus IC... Sounds like an inside job to me.

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

Maybe a combination. I wonder if this is all worth the effort. How much could one make considering all the logistics.

@khachaturian100 Ай бұрын

@@bitsundbolts What I think happened was that someone in upper management distributed through an "unofficial" channel to make money on the side... Asus didn't care until the boards started getting exported to the West and undercutting their bottom line. The article is full of red herrings and misinformation otherwise -- for example, I don't believe that the counterfeit P2B boards had Taiwanese caps... I've never seen an early revision P2B board that did not have Japanese caps by the VRM.

@danielktdoranie Ай бұрын

These are genuine ASUS P2B boards. I’m old and assembled many computers using these boards. Never even heard of a counterfeit P2B board and if they indeed do exist I doubt they were sold in the West

@SianaGearz Ай бұрын

Oh things leak into the supply chain from dubious sources ALL THE TIME. You'd think fake FTDI chips wouldn't be sold in the West, but they even found their way into Western made medical devices! There's also two kinds of counterfeits. One is that someone else built a clone device from scratch by copying an existing device. The other is "night shift" devices that shouldn't have left the factory but they did. I heard recycling containers of factories are sometimes raided, and often yiuld enough parts that a clandestine workshop will be able to assemble a number of seemingly working products. I might imagine, these boards could have been in to-be-reworked pile for one reason or another (for example to fix all those cold solder joints on power transistors) and then ended up being sold on accidentally.

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

Hm... Good point. If there is a possibility for them originating from a "rework pile", then it'll be impossible to tell what the history of those boards were - or really any board. So, maybe genuine, but unauthorized to be distributed.

@danielktdoranie Ай бұрын

@@bitsundbolts also consider this: would counterfeit boards have even lasted this long?

@awilliams1701 Ай бұрын

I'd just remove the parallel port. It serves no purpose. lol (I doubt you'll be printing anything from these computers)

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

Haha, the second time you mention this :) you really dislike the parallel port, don't you? They're probably not used anymore, but I have spares. I guess i can leave it if the future owner of the board is fine with it. Otherwise, I am prepared to slap on one of those pink parallel ports 😅

@awilliams1701 Ай бұрын

@@bitsundbolts oh really? LMAO yeah I don't see the point. I rarely 2d print anything and I just a flash drive if I do.....not unlike my 3d printer. lol

@awilliams1701 Ай бұрын

@@bitsundbolts I never liked floppies either. I remember in 2003 I think I built a computer without a floppy. I'm like this is so epic! I think apple did it a couple years later. I was late to the no optical party though. In fact this computer I built in 2021 was supposed to have one......but I couldn't find a case that supported it. I did get a USB one........never used it! LMAO

@bitsundbolts Ай бұрын

For me, giving up floppy and optical wasn't that easy. I guess I didn't like the change. There was the occasional situation where I needed a boot floppy disk. Now, nobody cares about those media types anymore. However, I did find some nice Plextor drives the other day at the scrapyard... I wonder what to do with them. One DVD and one CD/DVD writer.

@awilliams1701 Ай бұрын

@@bitsundbolts I actually still used floppies, but only for work. I had windows servers that needed RAID drivers during the instalation and you can only do that for 2003 with a floppy. Later versions supported CD/DVD drivers.