caves and cliffs update was crazy

I remember in an Anthropology class back in college the professor explained that species don't lose something over time because they're not using it, they lose it because it's a detriment to them in their new environment. As such, his example was that cave fish don't lose their eyesight or eyes over the course of evolution because they're not using it anymore, they likely lose it because their eyes can become a source of infection in the cave environment, so they have an advantage if they lose that source of infection. Just an interesting note.

My favorite thing about your videos is that you start with simple questions, such as why dont mammals live in caves, and then ask further questions that build into an interpretation of more abstract topics, with insights that are not apparent on surface level.

Another thing to consider is that the water level in caves fluctuates frequently, occasionally fully inundating the system. All other animals would drown, even other amphibians like frogs. This also contributes to making the niche more favorable to salamanders.

In Eastern Europe (Romania?) there is a cave that was completely isolated for entire eras. There are no bats, no energy input from the outside, the energy comes from a chemical reaction, which I don't remember, but it was from the minerals in the cave. There are spiders and I think fish... all highly evolved. If you find reliable data on this cave (or cave system) it would make for a very interesting video.

As a note for why salamanders seems to excel at cave life where other ectotherms have not, salamanders actually prefer cooler temperatures overall as a group. It’s why they’ve more or less have been excluded from the tropics and even where they’re native you’re often hard pressed to find them in the hottest months of the year. Many species actually prefer temperatures in the 50s-60s F. As someone who works with captive species, I even have to be careful temperatures don’t get too high above 70F or else you risk them overheating. I think this preferred temperature zones has made them well suited to cave life. They prefer wet and moist dark habitats as you mentioned, they are ectothermic so they don’t have high energy needs as you mentioned, but also they operate at cooler temperatures than other ectotherms, such as reptiles. Because of this they just set up well to quickly adapt to cave life. Now, there are some reptiles who do prefer cooler temperatures, such as a genus of Asian geckos, Goniurosaurus, who are collectively referred to as “cave geckos”. Despite being called cave geckos, they’re more so just visitors to caves. Possibly they’re on the way to evolving in that direction, but I think a fact with reptiles is they have to evolve to be more tolerant of constant cool temperatures compared to salamanders who that’s already their ancestral condition, so they’re just in a better position to take over the niche quickly.

Imagine this. A species of cave dwellers pass down stories of the caves that include descriptions of how tight and narrow the passages are, but because of erosion the passages have become less narrow, and it makes the people think they’re getting smaller over generations

There are also lava tube caves, iirc Hawaii has some cave critters(like a type of shrimp) that dwell in those.

Great video, just one tiny correction. Karst is not the only geology that forms caves. At the very least there are also lava tubes and stuff.

Wow, as someone from the Southern US, I had no idea how unique this region is for salamander diversity! I mean, I knew that the Smoky Mountains have the highest salamander diversity, but I would have expected the rest of the region to have a similar numbers to the rest of the world. Thanks for this great video!

It probably doesn't count, or they're still working their way toward it, but there are yellow-red rat snakes that hang from the top of the Kantemó Bat Cave in Mexico, and they snatch the bats right out of the air. It even has the nickname of the Cave of the Hanging Serpents. I have no clue how they really stay in the cracks of the ceiling or how they even reproduce and stay off the cave floor save for a few ledges on the walls, but supposedly they've already gone blind (still have eyes though) and live their whole lives in these caves because there really is no need to leave. They know exactly when the bats are about to depart for the night, get into position just hanging down, and when they feel a breeze close enough, they can just snatch the bats right out of the air. I wouldn't be surprised if the younger snakes feed on bugs and anything else that wonders in until they're old enough to start hanging from above, so this could be contention for your Salemander only apex predator theory.

I wrote an essay on this in my second year of university and fell in love with these kinds of animals. The Congo River and Lake Baikal in Russia host analogous species to troglobionts too, as these bodies of water are so deep that light does not reach the bottom of them.

Speaking of geographic isolation, you NEED to make a video about mountains and specifically montane animals and plants!! Mountains behave as islands too, and many mountain-dwelling species get stuck in the highlands, unable to move downwards due to the temperature differences. These species proceed to diversity and develop their own ecological niches seen nowhere else on earth. Please have a look at the highland Nepenthes (pitcher plant) species in Southeast Asia :)

Ever heard of the Abanda Cave Crocodile from Gabon? It's a population African Dwarf Crocodile that became isolated thousands of years ago. It has orange skin and along with eating bats and invertebrates lives off tons of algae.

3:45 just want to say that we pronounce it "Nulla-bore" in Australia, but looking at the way it's spelled, you're probably right that it was meant to be "Null Arbor", or "No Trees".

*_Now that I know, Im gonna dive down a chasm to find some neat creatures._*

Caving isnt for everyone but its something you have to experience even if its very open.

Troglomander sounds like a pokemon

Howdy, from the US state with the most caves Tennessee!! For every cave humans can get to and explore there are multiples more that are too small for humans or too inundated with snow or ice Caves are such a large and largely unexplored Refugia for many rarities. Please support your local grotto or spelunking organizations Help protect caves and their biological inhabitants before they’re lost to errant development

It makes sense that salamanders would survive while other cold blooded species wouldn't, given the periodic flooding events that occur in most caves.

I remember when I was little that I watched a documentary about gigantic cave spiders in south america, the largest or one of the largest species of spider on Earth. Perhaps the lack of salamanders there made the further development of spiders into the apex cave preditors possible? Perhaps you could talk about this if you ever decide on a follow-up video

what i love about your videos is how you basically explain the thought process you had throughout your research and the answers you found

You could make a part 2, there's no much content about cave biology and ecology in YT, it's a very underated topic 😢 I would love to see more

more like "The Amazing videos of Atlas Pro" amirite

Man I absolutely your videos and as someone interested in studying zoology and animal behavior, I really grew to love biodiversity and biogeography even more because of your videos

Hell yeah this is exactly what i needed to start my day! Love this channel!

I could imagine there being frogs that we don't know about in some of these caves because they share some similar traits to salamanders. They are cold blooded, can eat small fish and insects, and are amphibians. Many of them are smaller, so they would possibly be eaten by some of the bats and fish that are in the caves.

There was also that cave in Romania that got sealed off from the outside world and the primary source of energy became bacteria that used chemosynthesis from gases leaking in the bottom of the cave which allows it to survive without bats.

Karst sounds like lithuanian word for coffin - karstas And geological feature is called karstinės vietovės. Quite literal for "coffin-like areas"

21:17 I grew up seeing "salamander" used as a name for enemies in video games, usually for lizards that either use fire or live in fire-themed areas. A well known example is Charmander. I only found out in high school that salamanders are real, but are actually amphibians that spend a lot of time in the water. I've never even seen any salamanders, despite how much I hike and that I live in Ohio.

babe wake up atlas pro just posted

More uploads on this channel please! The content (as always) is some of the best I’ve seen on animals and biodiversity anywhere. Thats including cable networks and Netflix or whoever. Keep up your craft brother.

Love how you combine biology and geography to piece new ideas together. Enriching experience to watch these videos.

“In the deep glens where they live, all things are older than man, and they hum of mystery.” The end of ‘The Road’, McCarthy, and one of my all time favorite quotes.

i recently joined a caving club and i'm gonna do the caving course and exam later this month. ive done a bit of non tourist caving so far and we had a couple cave cleanups. i hope to join the cave rescue team someday.

This video has introduced me to another KZfaqr I'm definitely now subscribed to. I really appreciate that you feel that we are bright enough to deal with Latin nomenclature like intelligent people. Great content and great delivery !

I want you to know that you truly make some of the best, and fully comprehensive videos on youtube.

What's odd to me is I could have sworn there were Mexican cave salamanders as well. I know that in caves in southeast Asia, there are lots of animals that go in and out of caves frequently like cave swiftlets and snakes. But this video was super cool

This video is incredible! Thank you for making it and for pursuing curiosity at every turn!

I really enjoyed this video. I always love topics relating to biogeography, and you will always present the topics in a unique way. You notice something interesting, and then it evolves(no pun intended) into a video about an entire field of study. In many ways, your videos are a reason I want to become a biologist. Keep up the great work!

Definition of quality over quantity. I don't mind long waiting times if it means we can see these high quality videos

We here in Central Texas love our cave salamanders! We love our surface salamanders, too. They’re one of our sentinel species that indicate whether or not we’re doing too much environmental damage in developed areas. Our salamanders have even stopped development of giant shopping malls until ways to protect the salamander’s ecosystem could be found!

Interesting video. It reminded me of a trip to Thailand a few years ago when we went into Mae Lana Cave, where we saw a cave racer snake - it was deep inside the cave in pitch darkness. Apparently they sit with their heads raised and mainly feed by catching passing bats! The same species also occurs outside caves, but perhaps they could be regarded as another top cave predator.

3:44 null-AR-bore

I became fascinated with caves when I watched Planet Earth when I was 12.

Bravo. You have explained a complicated notion in a way that was easy to understand. My brain would like to extend its gratitude. You should be very grateful. My brain does not usually ask me to do this.

Contrary to popular belief, humans don't usually live in caves

Suggestion to add links to your two previous videos explaining geology of cave formation. I noticed you saying you explained it twice without saying where in the video. These links would make sense for video about info.

Your videos are such gems

Amazing content as always

I go into every video of yours with a passing interest, at best, in the topic at hand. I always leave curious and enthralled.

First time watching one of your videos, and a bit shocked the algorithm didn't recommend your channel to me before. You've earned a new subscriber.

Salamanders are such cool little dudes! I went caving for the first time a couple weeks ago and learned I probably saw a berry cave salamander not a tennessee one :)

really high quality nicely animated content. really impressive, nice work

All I can see are glow squids, skeletons, zombies creepers, witches, and axolotls maybe bats as well there.

You made my imagination fly, sir

Love how this journey started with one video 3 years ago that led us down into an interesting rabbit hole

I press the like button immediately on an atlas pro video and never regret it

Amazing detective work and storytelling. I wish, all academic talks were presented like that, and I will keep trying to emulate it with as little additional effort as possible.

I’m excited to watch this one (like always)! I live in Tennessee, we have the most caves and are the salamander hotspot of the world! Lots of natural beauty here

❤ new Atlas Pro, good day

I live close to the climax cave you talked about. It’s such an unknown cave even to most of the people that live around here. It’s pretty interesting you are able to research it.

I love caves! I visited mammoth cave as a kid and loved it. So happy about this video.

Thanks for the awesome video and all the amazing content!!!

Killing it brother. Every year gets better

Theoretically speaking, if there were another animal that could become the top predator inside a cave system, it would have to be some kind of semi-aquatic lizard, almost like a miniature crocodile, but roughly the same size as a salamander. However, I think that because reptiles still need to keep warm by spending time in the sun, they wouldn't be able to survive long term deep inside a cave system like salamanders can.

your editing is so inspiring.

I never thought I'd find any of this particularly interesting, but now I'm brainstorming how all of this came to be. Super fascinating.

I believe no other amphibian has taken their niche due to one simple reason. Salamander larvae are predatory whereas the tadpoles of frogs/toads eat algae which cannot be found underground

I know from doing alot of caving in france alot of the caves in the french alps were in part filled with ice a few hundred years ago and some still have ice in them ( we call these parts glacière)

Wow. Whatta *cool* YT channel. Awesome work man, really. *subscribed* looking forward to the rest your library 📚

I always love your videos bro, keep it up !

Perfect! I was just talking to my friend about cave biology

As a fellow upstate New Yorker, you should check out some of the cool formations around Albany and schoharie county. It’s one of the best areas of preservation of glaciated karst in the country

Fascinating topic, great video!

This was amazing! Thank you!

another factor to consider in this apparent distribution of cave dwellers is that the US and Europe are both very well developed, rich countries, and quite a bit easier to get into as an english speaking explorer/scientist than northern africa or asia. the correlation between known cave predators and the extent of the permafrost is super interesting!!

Fascinating video, I love it

that was such an interesting video! a bit bits with the voice over reminded me to pbs strange creatures videos, which is fun! i always love learning from your channel and widening my horizon

The editing on this video was fire 🔥loved the cuts

Waiting for this exact video. Being recently at Yucatán peninsula left me in awe with all its cenotes

Excellent video. Caves are one of my favorite environments on the planet so it feels good to see them be appreciated. Most people think caves are just boring holes in the ground, but the structures inside can rival gothic architecture in their beauty.

Excellent video! I learned so much!

one correction and some additional info that I think is important! The Olms are most closely related to the North American mudpuppies (all in family Proteidae). All species in family Proteidae are fully aquatic their entire lifecycle, so the olms did not "walk" into such a cave system, but rather came in through an aquatic route, as their ancestors were likely fully aquatic. This also explains why Olms are more troglyomorphic than Speleomantes -- like fish , fully aquatic salamanders may get swept deep into caves with no exit forcing them into a new environment without the ability to exist like a terrestrial salamander. For completely terrestrial salamanders like Speleomantes use of caves may be have started as a refuge from hot and dry summer months, and over thousands of years climates overall drying out forced Speleomantes to become more reliant on caves for adequately cool and moist environments. Until fairly recently, all Speleomantes used to be considered to be members of it's sister species, Hydromantes. Hydromantes is native to two pockets in California, One grouping of species surrounding Shasta lake, California, and another group in the Sierra Nevada mountains of California. These Hydromantes species are highly dependent on limestone talus (depending on species) and rocky spring areas and potentially are active under the surface during dry months, with active adults being found in mine shafts late in the dry season, so they can arguably be considered in the early stages of adaption to cave life. I think the most interesting part of the hydromantes - speleomantes distribution disjunction is that is supports the hypothesis of Glaciation fragmenting the range of salamanders. Whats interesting to note is that genetic studys put the split between speleomantes and hydromantes at 13.5 million years ago. This, along with the fact that in present day there is a few groups surviving in California, and then another few distant groups in southern Europe implies an ancestor that had a distribution throughout Eurasia and Western North America over the land bridge present from around 20-25 mya. That ancestor was then divided into two groups by the closure of that bridge 10 mya, and then further restricted to its current range by gla ciation in the last glacial cycle. Also in Central America, I know many bolittoglossid and other hemidactyline salamanders are actually highly dependent on karst regions. I think a large part of what limits your search on troglyomorphic or otherwise cave dependent salamanders is explicit documentation of cave behavior. A lot of behaviors in salamanders is entirely undocumented, and many species have periods of time where they go underground. A lot of places with cave or fissure ridden areas that are otherwise inaccessible by humans may hold salamanders of entirely new species, or salamanders of known species engaging in novel troglyophilic behavior. Additionally a lot of species in California may engage in cave related behaviors. I know Aneides species throughout North America use rocky outcrops with deep fissures that extend deep into the face of a cliff or the ground as vital areas of habitat. these structures are used to lay clutches of eggs and provide refugia from the dry summer months. Basically many species of salamanders are reliant on subterranean structures in North America and that is almost definitely driving subterranean behavior for salamanders, but the lack of accessible caves in the west of North America basically means that humans just have very limited opportunities to interact with salamanders that are active under the surface. tldr - there are way more salamanders that interact with subterranean structures than are commonly documented as "cave salamanders," largely because most species also are very active on the surface and are primarily known from their surface activity. The Western coast of North America is the second Largest hotspot of biodiversity in the world for salamanders, behind Eastern North America, and many places in Western Coast of North America just don't have very many subterranean structures that are accessible by humans. This doesn't mean that activity underground by salamanders isnt happening there - its just very difficult to actually document. Despite this, some Hydromantes (sister genus to Speleomantes), like Hydromantes Brunus (Limestone salamander) have been documented active underground in mineshafts in California during the dry season. This activity underground during the dry season is an example of troglyophilic behavior in salamanders outside of the areas talked abt in the video, and i personally think it implies a wider range of activity that still needs to be further documented in western North American Caudates.

I love your videos, which is weird considering I never really liked any kind of biology and/or similar studies. You make me genuinely excited about these things.

Very informative video and very nice work, thank you very much for this one.

love these videos

I love your theories. Great work

Great stuff!!

Just coincidentally, most species of salamanders were found in the most developed and well studied regions of the world.

This is such an interesting approach to the topic! I always appreciate the way you look at the negative space of information we have about the natural world... basically the curiosity about what we DON'T know. And there's so much! I feel the same way about anthropology, and especially about places that have experienced flooding in the course of human history like Doggerland etc. Looking at that limestone karst map, there are such big spaces in areas that are still fairly unsettled... it's worth pointing out that the Europe and the Eastern US probably have had the highest population densities for the longest times in terms of overlap, allowing these guys to be discovered. Anyhow, great stuff!

Such a good video. Expands your way of thinking.

Hell yeah, love your videos

What I find surprising in particular: Why salamanders but never frogs? Frogs should have all of the same advantages that salamanders do when it comes to inhabiting caves, in so far as I can tell.

yay sardinia mentioned 💖

Wonderful video!

Great video. Very much enjoyed it. Thank you

Awesome video!

Babe, wake up a new Atlas Pro video just dropped

So so interesting, thank you!