Audiophile Interconnect Testing - do cables make a difference?

Рет қаралды 1,213

15 күн бұрын

In this video 'Audiophile Interconnect Testing - do cables make a difference?' I'll be using the Omicron Lab Bode 100. #OmicronLab #Bode100
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Пікірлер: 103

@craigmiller332 13 күн бұрын

Bob Pease had an open challenge to wundercable manufacturers back in the late 80's to put their high-dollar products against basic Belden zip-cord &:coax in randomized, double-blind tests. None accepted. People forget there is also lots of wire earlier in the signal chain. Most amusing are the "golden ears" that insist their kilobuck pure silver/gold/platinum power cables will make some mystical improvement, when standard Romex is in the other side of the outlet. Snake oil salesmen are alive and well in the 21st century. (ETA: Bob Pease was a brilliant analog EE who worked for NatSemi, wrote seminal application notes and great articles in trade magazines. Like the Bob Widlars and Jim Williams and so many more, they gave light to the often nuanced world of analog design.)

@amplidude101 13 күн бұрын

Imagine a 100000 dollar setup with those 17:22 cables.. I have actually experienced some expensive long woven speaker cables that made my amp oscillate, capacitance was through the roof, but they looked cool

@KissAnalog 13 күн бұрын

LOL - they must have been absolutely terrible;) But picking by good looks is probably as good as any other way;)

@BB.......... 8 күн бұрын

John Dunlavy got a bunch of flack many years ago when he said cables make little-to-no difference at audio frequencies, and a lot of 'golden-ear' audiophiles went nuts. He found that the inexpensive Radio Shack gold RCA cables measured extremely well, better than most 'audiophile' cables costing a lot more. When the doubters made a big ruckus he decided he'd build the best interconnect and speaker cables he could using proven engineering, then they accused him of trying to have it both ways. He was simply proving a point; here's the most accurate cables ever built, if they make such a big difference then you should be able to hear it. He spent a lot of time in his showroom comparing cables doing blind and double-blind testing, and let people bring in their own cables to compare. The results were no better than guessing.

@KissAnalog 7 күн бұрын

Thanks for the great story!! There have been others that have challenged those that say that they can hear a cable - and the results have been as you report - no better than guessing. Which is just what those of us understand would expect.

@oliverisailovic 12 күн бұрын

Tnx for beautiful video dude. Many years ago I discovered that RG58 is the best audio cable for me, both for audio interconnections and for musical instruments, like guitars. There are also silver plated copper versions of the RG58. Simply beautiful and at the same time quite cheap cable.

@KissAnalog 10 күн бұрын

Thanks for the great feedback! The RG58 has been such a great signal cable for so many applications!

@MagicTK- 5 күн бұрын

In all my car audio days (mid '90s-now), I've used inexpensive Radio Shack RCA cables and maybe occasional slightly nicer sets, but one of my favorite moments for my home audio, I was at a nice mid to high end audio store and bought a Marantz SR5400 receiver for my Paradigm Studio 100v3 towers and CC-590 center, also happened to get a great deal on a Rotel RB-1090 amp. On the way out, the sales guy said, "hey, you gotta get these RCA cables". I can't recall the brand, but they were $70 per set, so not super high end, but much higher than the Radio Shack cables I was already using. I asked him, "honestly, could you or I hear the difference between my Radio Shack cables and these higher cost cables?" He said, "probably not". So I just thanked him but passed. I do have slightly higher cost cables now, but don't feel the need to try anything outrageous. I guess some day I should do a A/B/X listening comparison, just to try. Maybe even A/B/X with and without cable risers... Ha!

@KissAnalog 4 күн бұрын

Thanks for this real world experience! When you do your A/B testing - do it double blind. The placebo affect is real;) I have talked myself into hearing deferences - only to be shot down by my wife;) I thought I did a big improvement - she heard it and said - what did you do to our music? haha... Then I did hear what I did - and she was right - so I switched it back;)

@arthureschner9319 2 күн бұрын

Great video. "if you care about high frequencies that you can't hear, use the co-ax" - I almost fell off my chair in laughter! I think the only reason to spend more on interconnects is for longevity, some of these cheap cables break too easily or the insulation becomes hard & brittle. Other than that, as you've just proved in this video, the ridiculously priced "audiophile" cables really are a waste of money.

@JasonsLabVideos 13 күн бұрын

Till this day my Favorite RCA are the Neutrik NF2 CB-2 units.

@KissAnalog 10 күн бұрын

Thanks Jason! They look very interesting! I need to get some;)

@Hellhound604 13 күн бұрын

Hi Eddie, during all my years in RF and EMI-testing, I have seen and done lots of testing on various coax cables…. Until you get into the GHz range, well, it is debateble, much like the audio-frequency stuff… However, I have had some experience with audio-cables too…. For most part, one cable is like the other, whether it is single, double, or triple-shielded, oxygen-free copper (whatever it means),,, but I have seen some really bad shielded audio-cables too, in whick I learnt there was a difference in cables. Instead of a braided cable, some really, really, REALLY cheap audio cables, some audio cables just had the outer conductor do like one twist/inch around the center conductor. On an audio analyzer you could immediately see the 50Hz pickup on a length of that cable, if you use that cable as the interconnecting cable between a pre-amp and the power-amp, you could hear the hum… never looked further at that type of cable, it just went straight into to rubbish-bin, but maybe in the 70’s and 80’s the market was flooded with that type of cable and that is where the whole audio-cable religion came from????

@Hellhound604 13 күн бұрын

Listening to your final words, typical impedance from what I can remember to an audio-amp is like in 47k ohm… maybe the -cables should be tested at that impednace…. Not that it should make a difference????

@KissAnalog 13 күн бұрын

Yes - the impedance does have an impact. I'll show that in my next test;)

@Hellhound604 13 күн бұрын

@@KissAnalog looking forward to it 👍👍👍

@versace885 13 күн бұрын

HI Eddie, amazing video Eddie. Thank you so much for doing this video.👍😁

@KissAnalog 13 күн бұрын

Thank you for your support!

@christopherkarg6546 12 күн бұрын

So good! Thank you super appreciate your content.

@KissAnalog 12 күн бұрын

Thanks so much!

@DarthMaul41 11 күн бұрын

This video is a cold shower for all those snob "golden ears" audiophiles! Thank you so much for this reality check video!

@KissAnalog 10 күн бұрын

You're so welcome! Thanks for your feedback! I hope to save those that haven't joined the church some money;)

@ODWALLA123 13 күн бұрын

Excellent Video , Eddie . Thanks !

@KissAnalog 13 күн бұрын

Thanks so much!

@terrym1065 13 күн бұрын

Great job Eddie👍👍 I had a friend with thousands of dollars in audio equipment, McIntosh everything, B&W 801's, Kimber cable, etc., etc., a true audiophile by every standard. My Pioneer SX-1250 and HPM-150's sounded every bit as good as his set up...IMO😉👈

@KissAnalog 13 күн бұрын

Thanks for the great example!

@edwardbit8225 12 күн бұрын

well that was refreshing.....flat earthers will always hear a difference....as the cash leave their pockets! great video

@KissAnalog 10 күн бұрын

LOL thank you!

@redsnappa7837 13 күн бұрын

"If I believed in them, I'd use them right? I didn't say that..."😆😅🤣

@KissAnalog 13 күн бұрын

LOL - thanks!!

@pbaemedan 11 күн бұрын

Good day Eddie, outstanding video. This video should have been multiple videos. Lots of important information. You did not show us the baseline cable plot. You might have shown it later, but it was very confusing. When you plot the data, be careful of the frequency scale. When you plot 10 hz to 40 mhz, this should be plotted log and whe you do 10 hz to 100 kHz this should be linear. My real concern is with the introduction of phase information. You need to discuss group delay through the cable. Group delay is both frequency and length dependent. To accurately discuss the group delay to need to unwrap the phase data and subtract out the system group delay. This will give you the real phase change your looking for. Remember on the VNA, omicron 100, the phase wraps at +/- 175 degrees not at +/- 85 degrees. Thank you for your time and effort to produce these videos. I recommend not plot more than 2 plots at one time. It is almost impossible to compare traces.

@KissAnalog 10 күн бұрын

Thanks for your great feedback!! I hope it was obvious that there was no phase change in the audio band so no group delay to discuss. I am afraid if I talk too technical that I will lose a lot of the audio folks. I think you are right that more videos breaking down each technical aspect might be easier to get all the points across. I was going to do at least one more measurement video - and then a summary video. It is always tough to know how many and/or long I should make these. I don't get as many views as other videos - but I think they will stand the test of time;)

@bbfoto7248 19 сағат бұрын

@@KissAnalog Eddie, mad props. This is an EXCELLENT video, and it needs to be shared and viewed by as many as possible !!! When you produce a series of related videos like you are suggesting, you need to label and name them as Part 1, Part 2, and so on, and put them in a Playlist so your viewers can easily watch the entire series. Such as, "Audio Interconnect Cable Test: Part 1 - Losses (Gain), Amplitude Response, and Phase (or whatever)"... ... ... "Audio Interconnect Cable Test: Part 4 - Final Summary & Conclusions" I've also noticed that you rarely ever complete a sentence with the subconscious thoughts or point you are trying to make...you always seem to stop a bit short of finalizing your sentence with your complete subconscious thoughts, which might leave some scratching their head, especially when you sometimes mix comments that are "matter of fact" with occasional sarcastic ones. And for the laymen, whenever you are "talking numbers" even in quick reference, ideally you should still state WHAT that specific number value refers to, i.e. Phase, Millivolts, Microvolts, Amplitude/Amplitude Response , Frequency, Inductance, Impedance, Capacitance, etceteras, because you are prone to randomly "jumping around" a lot. :-P It's a problem I'm plagued with as well due to some A.D.D. Sometimes you do make it clear, but many other times when jumping back & forth between the metrics you just say something like, "look guys, it's just 45", and the more unfamiliar folks might not understand what you are refering to, while you already subconsciously know what you're looking at and showing on the display or refering to. I would also try to prepare a bit more of a strict outline or "script" to follow, as you seem to bounce all over the place or back and forth repeating or rehashing things which makes your videos unnecessarily LONG. I'm not saying to strip them of all your unique character or flavor and all spontaneous thoughts (good stuff!), just try to keep things a.bit more "on track".... A lot of potential viewers simply skip over videos that are more than 30 minutes and even if they're over 20 minutes due to their busy work schedules and/or a busy family life. I'm retired and I was still reluctant to watch this video due to its length. Hope you just take all this rambling as constructive criticism. ;) Thanks again!

@inhopeofabettername 12 күн бұрын

this was a great video, thanks

@KissAnalog 10 күн бұрын

Thanks so much!

@gulogulo7636 13 күн бұрын

I make my own using shielded microphone cable. A plus is that they are available in different colors if you want to color code the different connections :-)

@KissAnalog 13 күн бұрын

Thanks for bringing this up!! I also like microphone cable - but the wires are harder to strip as they are so small;)

@0xFFF5 13 күн бұрын

now you need to test for external interference to these cables, 60Hz power line and 60Hz fundamentals. that's where you hear the hum in a speaker when you use unshielded or cheap interconnects. the shielded coax like your RG400 LMR coax should fair well in noise rejection. Great video, and thank you for telling us about the Southwire multimeter while it was still cheap!

@KissAnalog 13 күн бұрын

Yes - I will be covering that. Besides the connection 'transparency' there is the shielding...

@davidhunt240 12 күн бұрын

Could you get a coil and pass the interconnect through it, then run varying frequencies through the coil and measure how much pickup there is from the central core?

@mikeconnor3602 8 күн бұрын

Thanks!

@KissAnalog 7 күн бұрын

Thank you for you generosity! I appreciate you!

@mikesaunders4694 13 күн бұрын

I think it’s part of the cult of obscure/expensive must = “better”. I’m also guessing most flat earth types don’t use tone controls (I love tone controls) and would rather spend hundreds or thousands on a different Cable or new speakers/amp/cartridge rather than turn up the bass/treble on the preamp a notch. Snake oil salesmen love audio! Peter Walker of QUAD fame was happy to demo stuff using orange lawnmower flex as speaker cable.

@KissAnalog 10 күн бұрын

Thanks for this fantastic feedback!! I am going to do a rant video where I talk about $=good;)

@gordthor5351 12 күн бұрын

Yeah, but you didn't test directional cables with the little arrows on them. How are the electrons to know which direction to flow if there isn't tiny "One Way" signs inside the cable?

@KissAnalog 12 күн бұрын

I know - you are so right! I actually didn't know which end was the input and output - so I hoped no one would notice... You got me on that one;)

@amplidude101 13 күн бұрын

Ohhh no.. eddie what did you start..😂

@KissAnalog 13 күн бұрын

LOL - let's see...

@reverend11-dmeow89 11 күн бұрын

The Audiophile DIY cabling back when convinced a buddy to fab his phono cables from two thin Silver parallel wires about an inch apart between 2 inch clear packing tape. Whuh?

@KissAnalog 10 күн бұрын

LOL - that sounds like terrible advice;)

@jakubczajka4275 13 күн бұрын

Back in late '90s my neighbour used to have 1 pair of cables similar to your Value, but thinner. When plugged between CD and amp it sounded not much better than music over the telephone line. Now I wonder how someone has managed to make a cable that bad...

@KissAnalog 13 күн бұрын

LOL It is easy to upgrade lamp cord for a few bucks;)

@superannuant 12 күн бұрын

Thanks

@KissAnalog 10 күн бұрын

Thanks so much for your generosity!

@BB.......... 8 күн бұрын

It's funny to me how many of the people claiming that cables make a big difference have speakers that aren't very accurate, and have mediocre impulse and step response, even mega-buck brands like Wilson, Vivid, Sonus Faber and numerous others. I have Dunlavy SC-V, arguably the most accurate passive speakers ever built, and John Dunlavy said they were the most accurate speaker he ever built, even better than the much bigger SC-VI that measured so great by Stereophile magazine. John said that a speaker is never going to sound better than it measures, so he spent a ton of time getting step response, impulse response and frequency response correct, and his speakers were able to reproduce an acoustic square wave with better accuracy than most tube amps.

@KissAnalog 7 күн бұрын

Thanks so much for this background - fantastic to hear! A speaker actually tested;)

@BB.......... 7 күн бұрын

If you have the time I highly recommend reading the Stereophile interview "Loudspeaker designer John Dunlavy: By The numbers," it's really interesting. His background was in antenna theory, and he designed the very first Log Periodic antenna in 1952, classified "secret" by the Air Force. He later designed the cavity-backed spiral antenna that was used for voice and telemetry on the Gemini rocket program, which he held the patent for. He also held the patent for felt on speaker baffles to reduce diffraction. Brilliant man.

@KissAnalog 7 күн бұрын

Wow thanks for the great information!! Much appreciated!!

@BB.......... 7 күн бұрын

@@KissAnalog You're welcome. Most of what you do is above my pay grade, but I still enjoy watching. Keep up the good work.

@gregreynolds5686 13 күн бұрын

What power does the network analyser use? At higher powers, does the Ohmic heating cause any time dependent variation? Great video, as ever 😊

@KissAnalog 10 күн бұрын

Great question! No, maybe with speaker cable this could be an issue, but with interconnects it is not a concern.

@mikeconnor3602 9 күн бұрын

Hi you posted this on my birthday, love this test. I see you have a Garmin watch, I have the same watch but hate the Silicone rubber band, did you replace your band? I sent a super buy as I appreciate your detail and patience. If you have a video on Oscilloscope isolation, detailing the potential dangers, reason, etc I would greatly appreciate it. I just bought an oscilloscope and I need to understand the potential dangers related to grounding of the probes. I don't want to blow myself or scope up. I am playing with arduino boards and buck/boost converters. Thanks, Mike

@KissAnalog 7 күн бұрын

Happy Birthday Mike! Thank you for your generosity! Yes it is a Garmin. I did buy extra bands on Amazon at a fraction of Garmin's price and they seem to be the same quality. Here is the one I'm looking at now:) amzn.to/3W4uRNP That's great! I'm glad that you are learning how to take measurements with a scope. Here's a video that might be what you are looking at: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rdx9l6iYpt3clok.html

@mikeconnor3602 6 күн бұрын

@@KissAnalog thanks for the links! I appreciate your videos!

@peterwu831 13 күн бұрын

Great test! But my amplifiers are having a 50k input impedance, not 50 ohm, and I’m wondering if that would make a difference on noise picking with these cables.

@KissAnalog 13 күн бұрын

Thanks for the great input! Yes - the input impedance does make a difference - and now you know what my next video will be about;)

@2321brendan 13 күн бұрын

Hey Eddie. I hear you are a bit of a power supply guy. I have a lovely 240v - 18v 10amp transformer looking for a project. I already have a 20a 13.8 v linear PSU for my amateur radio gear. Im looking to build a 5v-15v variable power supply with the 10a transformer. A DIY lab supply . I would like variable -constant current ,,and low current cut off, same with voltage. Good for charging lithium batteries and testing projects ,low noise etc. My question is : do you know of a chip that can do all this. I can solder SMD but have never designed a PCB. Seem those cheap lab supplies you love should have something Im looking for,but are usually switching. A whole board with chip would be ideal . I fouund a couple with google ,but figured asking an expert would be a good idea. Thanks .Brendan

@KissAnalog 10 күн бұрын

Thanks for asking! It is hard to beat a full board with heatsinks for less than $10 ;) amzn.to/45YtK78

@DW11111 13 күн бұрын

as usual, everyone in the comments ignores your tshirt game. That's ok, I didn't :)

@KissAnalog 12 күн бұрын

LOL - much appreciated !!

@superannuant 13 күн бұрын

what about digital coax interconnects from streamers and sacd players? are they using higher frequencies?

@KissAnalog 12 күн бұрын

Great question! Digital is even more simple and straight forward. Analog is continuous, so any change could be interpreted as meaningful. With digital - it either works or doesn't. Simple as that. Think about when we sent video (High def) through cable and it was analog - that was not easy. But then came HDMI - and the world was saved - digital made high def easy. Digital is high frequency (but not that high) and it is on or off - much easier to read.

@superannuant 12 күн бұрын

@@KissAnalog thanks for your reply! I am really enjoying your expertise. I am learning a lot! you are demystifying audio for me! keep up the great work!

@jstro-hobbytech 7 күн бұрын

damn eddie, you need to build a new bench. haha a good first world problem. i'm doing the same thing now.

@KissAnalog 7 күн бұрын

LOL - you are so right:)

@ianhaylock7409 13 күн бұрын

17:22 LOL

@KissAnalog 13 күн бұрын

Thanks ;)

@bradcfi2 5 күн бұрын

Do interconnects suffer from reflections in audio? I had this thought since the 50ohm coax seemed pretty flat. Brad

@KissAnalog 4 күн бұрын

No way - they would have to be miles long. Audio is just too slow. So anyone talking about reflections or refractions is full of BS;)

@fredflintstone8048 13 күн бұрын

According to audiophiles, the only valid instrument for measuring interconnecting cables is their eyes and ears. They have to look cool. We know that the amount of inductive and capacitive reactance on a cable at audio frequencies is so small that it has no effect on the signals. The level of shielding on input signal cables is the only real important thing thus lowering the amount of noise to signal levels. I may be missing something because it's true that I'm not very bright, but I don't see the point of taking measurements of audio cables above 15k.

@JasonD-yc3oy 13 күн бұрын

They call themselves "Golden-eared audiophiles".

@jamiedelaney1719 13 күн бұрын

I’m 😊

@KissAnalog 13 күн бұрын

The part I think is ironic is that cables are not born on trees - so the audiophile doesn't believe in the engineer but love the equipment that he/she designs and develops. Crazy!

@reverend11-dmeow89 11 күн бұрын

A Vote for Balanced ins and outs.

@mikeconnor3602 8 күн бұрын

@@JasonD-yc3oy I'm one of those 😂

@timothygrupp 13 күн бұрын

The horse is dead...

@KissAnalog 13 күн бұрын

LOL - you are probably right;)

@johnshaw359 7 күн бұрын

Just don't use the cheap freebie cables, is the bottom line for me from personal experience.

@KissAnalog 7 күн бұрын

I am tempted to get these "The World's best Cable" at about $32 that are made with Mogami cable and Amphenol connectors. amzn.to/4eUYzxH

@johnshaw359 4 күн бұрын

@@KissAnalog Yep, that'll do ya. Or Amazon basics etc will likely do. I use Van Den Hul The D-102 MKIII, it was a different scene back then, however it worked well, it wasn't outrageously expensive, so I stuck with it.

@nabman_ 13 күн бұрын

Eddie, sorry to tell you bluntly that your testing methodology is flawed and so meaningless. You did not lift the cables under test off of the bench/ground by 4.2744609" using stands made of tiger eye stone 🤣🤣🤣🤣

@KissAnalog 13 күн бұрын

Wow - you just ruined my surprise for my next video ;)

@Hellhound604 13 күн бұрын

@@nabman_ let us not get into the EMC-specs, where they specify the cables must be laid flat 1" above the ground plane… next you will have the audiophiles start selling some contraption like that to place underneath the cables, together with a bag of of earth…😂🤣😂

@nabman_ 13 күн бұрын

@@Hellhound604 that's for the northern hemisphere; for the southern hemisphere, the cables have to be buried 🤣🤣

@Hellhound604 13 күн бұрын

@@nabman_ damn… is that why some of my EMI-tests failed when I had to do it on the other side of the equator???? Always wondered about that… 😂🤣😂

@JackBurley-m3f 13 күн бұрын

You guys are showing your ignorance. Any phile knows, sorry- any fool knows that neg 4.2744609" will be above ground when you're below the equator - right.? NOOO! Because you are already upside -down!

@KissAnalog 12 күн бұрын

LOL - I love this;)

@0xFFF5 13 күн бұрын

Thanks!

@KissAnalog 13 күн бұрын

Thank you for your generosity! I appreciate you!

@Hellhound604 13 күн бұрын

Thanks

@KissAnalog 13 күн бұрын

Thanks so much for your generosity! I appreciate you!

@Hellhound604 13 күн бұрын

Wish I could do more. Your channel is really educational and brings back long forgotten mempries… 🥲🥲🥲