So the car fell off of the mountain side because of the lack of railing and it is the car's fault?

@@Eduardo_Espinoza did you watch literally any of the video leading up to and/or after that point?

Yes, but I have attention problems.@@automobilistic

​@@automobilisticthe Delta S4 is still GOATED since it first appeared on Gran Turismo 2.

​@@automobilisticbrilliant video...👍

It was either Kankkunen or Alén who joked about the 1987 cars that you could drive them one-handed and use the other hand to wave at the crowds.

The Group A cars in 1987 were also quite underpowered, even Lancia Delta producing only around 240 hp.

Kankkunen did a regular interview/ column with Martin Holmes for motoring publications in the 1980s. Juha's early impressions of the Group A Lancia Delta after the 3rd wrc event Portugal (4th place) were first there were the burning paint odours of the new car and by the end of the event burning oil odours from the engine. Rhorl said when they tested the Group B car at Bauxites (Acropolis stage) it was over 200 km/h and the Group A Audi 200 Quattro was 170km/h.

That must have been so disappointing and maddening for those drivers.

@johnmichaels4330 Absolutely. As I said in other comment, if there wasn't for the bad, irresponsible, life threatening behaviour of the public and the organisers not willing to put more money into security, as we see nowadays, this wouldn't have happened. Of course Attílio and Henri's deaths had to be taken into consideration, but danger (in the competitors view) has and still is part of the game. Stopping Group B and not going forward with Group S may seem to have avoided more deaths, but how many deaths we had following that, either in group A, N, Kitcars. It was a stupid decision to ban cars and not putting more work in crowd control. Nowadays I go to see WRC in Fafe (Portugal) and there's still huge crowds as back in the day. Just better placed and controlled. It has been my opinion throughout the years and yet nobody really managed to convince me otherwise.

Or more deadly.

And yet current rally cars are now setting even faster times on those same stages that Group B raced on - technology has marched on!

​@daveb4128 That may be true but group b will always be the best age for rally the technology was revolutionary and the fans were more into the sport than ever

Have them use no guide, and no knowledge of track. Then you'll see that rally is not real driving, they're just flying through it by slight corrections.

Groups S is called Paris-Dakar.

Great stuff, pikes peak would be great too

I 100% agree

@@davidpistek6241hunter moon does that And trust me you can believe in him

Ya

"Reportedly": there's a lot of that in comments and videos about S4 and 037 for some reason. The main complaint Toivonen and Cresto had was that the S4 accelerated so fast that there was no time to call out the pace notes between curves. They had to completely revise their system of making and reading them

And with all that, the 205 was still better

@@sandromartins20 Maybe the Evolution 2 205 versus the first iteration of the S4 was better without Toicvonen and Cresto, but in the last rally of the season the Lancia was sufficiently developed to allow a slightly past his prime. Alen to beat Kankunnen at the height of his talents on neutral ground, with no excuses.

This was at the beginning of the Season, not in May when the car passed some development and was way more easy to drive.

never.@@sandromartins20

The ford RS200 crash in Portugal that killed spectators was more structural to Group B demise, Toivonen who is buried in Espoo was more symbolic. Marku noted the S4 has no brakes and unlike the old 037 which felt like a glove, the S4 as though someone else (spiritually the hand of god) was guiding it not him. The Pug was easier to drive, hence why it won that season. He has a Pug in his collection as do the other Rally drivers.

@@fraserwright9482 speaking of the ford, was it harder to drive than the lacia or is it the other way around?

@@gabrielnicholascaparas9003 Kinda, but in different ways, the Lancia was hard to drive and fast, and the Ford was hard to drive and slow. The Ford as far as I know and imagine, was difficult to drive in a dull knife sense, in that it sucked, was easy to overdrive into a mistake. By all accounts it handled quite well, but the power delivery was bad, and the engine had no power low in the RPM range.

​@@gabrielnicholascaparas9003the Ford was still under development at the beginning and the Lancia had been a progression. Ford had only started a few rallies with the RS200 in an attempt to join in on the group B series as it was hugely popular. As for the Peugeot Jean Todt created the ultimate group B team just as he did at Ferrari in F1.

​@@fraserwright9482spot on.

Yeah I agree. Group A is my favourite era of rally

I love the group A era as well.

It was a crazy era, don't forget group C too.

I'm glad group s never happened, or the group a era would never have happened, group a was by far the greatest era for rallying. Not as spectacular cars but far more competitive sport and gave us some incredible road cars that could actually be bought. I'm only really interested in homologation cars. Hence why i couldn't care less about any of the fast cars for sale today, they've never won anything. Never done anything worth doing. The group b homologation cars were just unobtainable. But the spectacle compensated for that. But with group a, the close fought battles that had made group 4 so good resumed. And we could buy one ourselves again. In reality during the group b era, the British rally championship was far more exciting than the wrc, Jimmy Mcrae vs Russell Brookes both in the Opel Manta 400 was incredible.

@@theant9821 I agree, after the initial shock of sudden change, group A proved to be a good deal for manufacturers, drivers and fans alike - being safe and similar to road cars, but also providing more exciting road cars for normal folks to drive. It also worked well with the cheaper group N, with the same base cars being able to be used in both categories. Group S feels like WRC, but 10 years in advance and with probably little relevance to road cars. They would've been cool cars though, make no mistake. But given that cost control wasn't much of a thing back then, it's likely that it'd become too expensive really fast. After all, apart from safety, another reason for FISA to plan a replacement for group B was that there were one or two manufacturers with winning cars - others were either spending millions to catch-up someday (Ford and Rover), entering the few rounds where they had a chance (Toyota in Safari) or just plain giving up (Audi with the front-engine Quattro).

​@@theant9821but group B increased the profile of rallying more than anything which allowed the future of the sport to be healthy. The subaru impreza of mitsibushi evo probably would never have existed without group B.

Sounds like a story Lancia would spread lmao.

That's cool but ... Too much of one thing ... Is good for nothing.

@@xr.spedtech i know

perfect timing!

Best sound ever in rallying,that engine .

Tri flux

Because people back then accepted the risk hell the only motorsport that still does MotoGP and that's cause you literally can't remove the danger the Isle of Man is the last truly special race left in the world because of it

The late Beppe Volta developed a 037 4WD-H back in 2012, it had an electric motor on the front axle

@@JK061996 Noooooooooo!😣

S4 is literally 4wd 037

@@francouz23 except it's a "Delta sedan"

But I think only few guys knows what is a triflux engine.... Limoni- Lombardo engineers And Beppe Fontana preparator....😢 Greets from Italy an Italian former mountain trooper Alpini 🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹 genX 😂😂😂

@@falt.a7350 Yes, very light info on wiki. But if you search you can read quite a lot about it and knowing Italian is the key to it. Trifulx was insane. Alpini Rules 🇮🇹🇮🇹

@@gafrers Yes bro.... But if you want... searching for Beppe Fontana garage or triflux engine on yt... You can find a few videos about this genius widow.... She detained all the aluminium block of ecv2 inside her garage and many collectors "flirting" with her family if she maybe want sell all garage with all the unfinished cars and chassis... Whit secret deal.... Research on yt my friend!!!!! Again greets from Italy 🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹 One time Alpini, forever Alpini

@@gafrers I forget.... Not in English Searching for..... Motore triflux or lancia ecv2 test motore gruppo S There are only Italian channel.... Greets again... "Ferro inique ad eccelsa" 🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹

Sorry..🤗 is Beppe Volta ( Fontana was another Abarth preparator) And engineer was Claudio Lombardi....🤗

🤔

Thank you so much!

the 037 stradale, delta hf integrale evo, s4, stratos stradale and fulvia coupe rally are in fh5 😃

The s4 in I the grand turismo 4

yes I even mention that exact point in the video

@@automobilistic the pedal did not have a stop? ... how... ?

It did stop but the when it stopped the throttle was stuck like the driver was going all out ​@@GeorgeTsiros

Glad you're enjoying the videos! I looked into the 88C-V, but there's not really enough there for a full length video. I think I will instead do a segment on it within a larger video at some point

What? You can see the skirts in photos and videos. Peugeot claimed that they were to deflect stones from hitting and damaging the underside - probably not true - and that the skirts were too small to be very effective in providing down force - probably true. At any rate, Paris accepted Peugeot's explanation and restored the San Remo points.That reversal was announced immediately after Alen had won the last rally of the season and thought he had won the Championship, which must have seemed cruel to him.

@@johngeren1053 If the skirts weren't illegal to begin with, and since they did exist long before the Sanremo rally (not to the illegal extent that Lancia claims), why wasn't Peugeot disqualified earlier in ANY of the other races prior to Sanremo? They were the SAME skirts for the past TEN rallies, and only in Sanremo were they deemed illegal by LANCIA themselves. It wasn't Audi, MG, Ford, Toyota, nor Renault that claimed the skirts illegal, neither did the smaller teams (Citroen, Opel, Porsche, Mazda, Volkswagen, Subaru, Skoda, and Fiat) claim them as illegal. Oh, but it would be too much of a COINCIDENCE that Sanremo was the ONLY ITALIAN course in the 86' championship. It would be too much of a COINCIDENCE that LANCIA is an ITALIAN car brand. It would be too much of a COINCIDENCE that LANCIA was losing to Peugeot BEFORE the Sanremo rally (Peugeot had 141 points vs Lancias 119 points in the past 10 rallies leading up to Sanremo). That's a lot of coincidences against simple side-skirts built to deflect stones from hitting the underside. - Here's another coincidence. Sanremo's chief scrutineer, Lanfranco CANESCHI, inspected a Peugeot 205T16 (Andrea Zanussi's 205T16) in the European Championship's Piancavallo rally stage seven weeks BEFORE Sanremo. After Caneschi's inspection on Zanussi's 205T16 in Piancavallo, he declared the car CLEAN (that includes the "side-skirts"). However, when he was asked why the same car used in Piancavallo was now illegal in Sanremo, he stated that he only checked the brakes and suspension in Piancavallo - which is a lie. The thing about Lanfranco Caneschi is that back in 1981, Caneschi organized a campaign who's purpose was to outlaw the Opel Ascona 400 - the first NON-ITALIAN car that won the Italian Rally Championship (IRC) in 1981. The Opel was successfully excluded in 1982, giving the championship to Ferrari in the Group 4 category. FISA's Technical Commission chief, Gabriele Cadringher (absent from Sanremo; on Formula 1 business), had personally advised Peugeot that the strakes were legal, and rally organisers on every event SINCE March had accepted the legality of the strakes. Peugeot designed the strakes to give protection against sideways impact as the fuel tanks were positioned under the seats in a vulnerable place. Similar to how the Delta S4's fuel tanks were placed, but this time, protected. - Contrary to what you said, the Sanremo points were NOT in-fact RESTORED. Instead, on December 18, 11 days after the end of the Olympus Rally (the final WRC round), the FISA Executive Committee issued the verdict to remove the whole event from the championship that year. This awarded the Makes championship to Peugeot and the Drivers title to Juha Kankkunen, instead of Lancia and Markku Alen respectively. Just to add to all of this, Lancia's team boss (at the time) Cesare Fiorio disagreed that Peugeot's side-skirts were illegal. And to add even more, quoted from Markku Alen himself in an article written by Richard Heseltine, published on "Classic & Sports Car," “I still don’t know the full story of what happened,” admits Alén. “I don’t know if politics came into it, but I never understood why the Sanremo people didn’t let the Peugeots complete the rally and then throw them out. “It made no sense to drop them so late in the rally. By not letting them finish, and with the Peugeot team’s protest then being successful, they couldn’t simply reinstate them in the results. If they had, I might have finished second to Juha and perhaps still have won the title."

@@captainbarbossa5201 The skirts were intended to tunnel airflow to the extractor under the rear of the Evolution T16. The extractors were removed when ground effects were banned following the Marc Surer crash which occured after Corsica and before San Remo.

@@johngeren1053 Again, the side skirts that Lancia claimed "illegal" were not the same side-skirts prior to the FIA's rule re-write. IF they were the same side-skirts prior to Surer's crash, then scrutineers in the WRC would deem them illegal. The only time were deemed illegal after Surer's crash was in Sanremo, which were compliant to the new rules.

@@captainbarbossa5201 "Again"? I don't recall discussing the Surer crash earlier.