Autotransformer Analysis: Is It Safe to Use?

  Рет қаралды 4,827

Lynx Electronics Lab

Lynx Electronics Lab

21 күн бұрын

In this video we take another look at the autotransformer based on viewer input. There is a question on the build and safety we need to look into. Is the one I purchased safe or is it a death trap? Lets find out together.
Transformer Link :
www.amazon.com/dp/B078W4YG3B?...

Пікірлер: 97
@uni-byte
@uni-byte 17 күн бұрын
For those that said the fuse should not be on the primary must be thinking of something else. This is a variable autotransformer so it has only one winding. The correct place for the fuse is BEFORE power gets to the transformer itself. You can certainly fuse the output but having the input fused is mandatory.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 17 күн бұрын
Thanks for the information I have never owned one till now and have looked at the internal working. I assume you were moving a contractor on a secondary winding to get a variable ratio. So based on your input it is just a giant wire wound pot used as a variable voltage divider? So the current rating is fixed. This makes sense. RJ
@uni-byte
@uni-byte 17 күн бұрын
@@LynxElectronicsLab It's more complicated than that. It is only superficially physically similar to a potentiometer. There is induction going on in an autotransformer. For simplicity sake let's look at a 1000VA 120V unit. The maximum current that can occur in any part of the winding is 1000/120=8.3A. Also know that the output current is equal to the input current + the current in the common part of the winding. So, with 120V going in and the transformer set at 50% you will be able to draw 60V @ 16.6A on the output. 8.3A from the input side and 8.3A from the common side. That is the sweet spot. The available current must be de-rated down to 8.3A as you vary either up or down from the 50% point. So @ 1.2V or @ 118.8V you will be limited to about 8.4A (8.3+8.3/99). It depends on your typical use case as to how you'd want to fuse the output.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 16 күн бұрын
@uni-byte thanks for the explanation, I love learning new stuff that I have never worked with. Love your channel btw!
@uni-byte
@uni-byte 16 күн бұрын
@@LynxElectronicsLab You are welcome, and thank you!
@thomasmaughan4798
@thomasmaughan4798 11 күн бұрын
Assume you have set a 1/10th output, 120 volt input, 12 volt output. It will behave like a transformer, allowing 10 amps out for 1 amp in. If the windings are rated for 1 amp, then a 1 amp fuse on input will protect the windings BUT the 10 amps output will melt the wires. So the OUTPUT ought to be fused for the rated limit of the wire.
@thomasmaughan4798
@thomasmaughan4798 11 күн бұрын
4:30 You can get a LOT more current OUT than you put IN. The power won't change, but as you reduce voltage you increase available current (for a given power). Really it ought to be fused on input AND output; input fusing is basically in case the windings touch the case, it does not protect the transformer itself. It is the OUTPUT fuse that protects the transformer.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 11 күн бұрын
Thanks for the comment, Watch the other videos in this series (some already out) to see how I deal with this. RJ
@donaldhoot7741
@donaldhoot7741 16 күн бұрын
It's a death trap, a suicide wrap, we gotta get out while we're young. Baby I was born to Run.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 16 күн бұрын
Nice!
@justsumguy2u
@justsumguy2u Күн бұрын
I have this same model, and I'm perfectly satisfied with it. One thing should be noted, however; these are made with 110v input in mind, so when running them on our 120v+ mains, output voltage of the variac will be higher than indicated on the dial. When I use mine, I plug a power strip into it's outlet and the equipment being powered into the strip---this allows me to also connect my AC voltmeter, so I can monitor real-time output
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab Күн бұрын
Thanks, Check the video on the isolation transformer I use with this. It has a digital volt, current, watts meter that lets me monitor its output. RJ
@clytle374
@clytle374 15 күн бұрын
I have a similar unit. Liked the video other than the use of the term primary and secondary. A fuse of the output isn't a bad thing to add. You can easily put out a lot of amps on the output when the voltage is turned down. ie 10A in a 120V can be 100A out at 12V. I actually built an DUT power box into my bench that has an isolation transformer then a variac and dim bulb that are both switchable with volts and amps display on the output. It's proven to be one of the absolute best bits of gear for testing things.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 15 күн бұрын
Thanks for the input, Keep watching and you will see I have done a similar. RJ
@t1d100
@t1d100 18 күн бұрын
Hi, RJ, Yes, that unit does look better. So glad that you found a descent unit and that it is safe to use. Something to know for future maintenance and repairs... The brush contact for variable autotransformers is very difficult to find. You might want to try to find one now, while your model is current. (Some folks would say that you would never wear one out, in a lifetime. But, just drop the unit off of the counter, once, and you could easily need a new brush. However, I don't imagine that you will find it, even if you could make contact with the seller. And, you can not fashion one from a common electric motor brush. That material simply has the wrong electrical properties, even though you would think the materials to be identical. When I bought my AT, I did a lot of research on the subject. And, I did locate a supplier. However, KZfaq will not allow me to post a link, or even mention where I posted the information. So, I am going to send you an email and you can post it, here. Thanks for the shout-out. HTH.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 18 күн бұрын
Thanks, I would be one in the camp that as little as I will use it, it should last me a lifetime (what's left anyway) or so I hope. If not the $88 it cost will not hurt that bad. I will try not to drop it as it is heavy enough to damage more that the unit. Think broke foot/cracked floor... RJ
@t1d100
@t1d100 18 күн бұрын
@@LynxElectronicsLab I have sent the email. Maybe one of your viewers would find the information helpful.
@uni-byte
@uni-byte 17 күн бұрын
The brush contact is odd on these, but given the price and build quality they whole unit should be considered disposable. I have one and don't use it often but will be using in in the near future. The thing I like least about them is how the leads attach to the windings. That's the biggest safety flaw. They could easily come off after time so make sure the case ground is good.
@gregebert5544
@gregebert5544 15 күн бұрын
Auto transformers DO NOT provide isolation, so be careful. Aside from that, they are safe to use and if you dont overload them, they will last for many years. I have a Staco unit that I bought over 40 years ago, and it's still working just like new. If you are unsure about the quality, try running it from 0 to full voltage with a modest load on it, and make sure there are no dropouts visible on the meter (nice feature, BTW) as the knob is turned. Also, see if it gets warm if you run it overnight with no load. Personally, the wires in the video look a bit small for 20 amps but are probably OK when you consider their length (resistance) and the amount of heat they generate at 20 amps.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 15 күн бұрын
Thanks! RJ
@tomweickmann6414
@tomweickmann6414 16 күн бұрын
Good production. Thank you. Quite the gadget you've got there. I admire your friend's polite reserve trying to tell you to sincerely beware of Chinese junk.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 16 күн бұрын
Thanks!
@f.hababorbitz
@f.hababorbitz 7 күн бұрын
Yes, the circuit breaker is to protect the house wiring, not the load. However, at the wall receptacle, you are not plugging in a 12AWG copper cord. That cord appears to be 16AWG. This is one of the flaws of our USA electrical code. That cord now is a fire hazard. This is one of the reasons that the latest NEC (2020) now requires arc fault breakers. If that cord were to start a melt down, it would trip the breaker once arcing between the hot and neutral occurs. The fix I see in the UK standards is to have the plug with a fuse that protects the smaller wire used.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 7 күн бұрын
This is a good point, thanks for the input.
@newmonengineering
@newmonengineering 14 күн бұрын
You have great content. Im surprised you don't have a larger subscriber count. Keep it up, i love your videos, and i hope your subscribers increase! You deserve it!
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 14 күн бұрын
Thank you so very much for such kind words! I will do my best to keep getting better at creating content. Hopefully more viewers that are interested in this type of content will find me. Everyone told me KZfaq wasn’t friendly to small channels getting started in niche content. This has turned to be true. The good news is I love playing with this stuff learning and teaching. Since I retired I have the time and do not need to make money from KZfaq. For me, if a viewer like you enjoys the content and learns something, my channel is already a major success. RJ
@edic2619
@edic2619 14 күн бұрын
Thanks for checking this device for safety concerns.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 14 күн бұрын
Thank you, but I owe it to my viewers. One of them suggested it as he was aware some were not built safely. RJ
@campion05
@campion05 12 күн бұрын
Thanks for the inspection. I have tested this model's actual output with a volt meter, and it is not linear with the top ring and the attached meter. So I just use an external volt meter every time with my DUT's.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 12 күн бұрын
Thanks for the info, The video going up in a little over an hour will show the third device in this group of tools. It is an isolation transformer with digital data such as voltage/current/power/power factor & frequency. So this is my meter for the same purpose as your volt meter. Gives me a great information console for what my DUT is getting feed. In an upcoming video I show how I use all three together. RJ
@nonsuch
@nonsuch 5 күн бұрын
I have the 10A version that I bought over 5 years ago. I only need it a few times a month max and It's been doing the job I need it to do with no issues. Obviously, there are better ones available at quadruple the price. If I needed it daily, maybe I would have gotten a better one but honestly, if it does what I need it to do and it hasn't failed, what more can I say?
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 5 күн бұрын
Exactly, I am in the same situation. Thanks for the input. RJ
@hoggif
@hoggif 16 күн бұрын
Is there a primary and secondary? All variacs I've seen in my country are autotransformers. I have burnt one that had no output fuse. Sure, it took less than 10A in, but because the tap is at lower voltage (and P=UI) at same power I got much more amps at lower voltage out and it burnt the coil. Autotransformers are dangerous in my country because we can put plug in two ways and you are not sure which is L or N. It is also never isolated. I run my variac after an isolation transformer and with a fuse in input AND on output.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 16 күн бұрын
Keep an eye to see the rest of the setup and you will see I have more to it that covers it all.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 16 күн бұрын
Sorry did not answer your question. Yes as we have been talking in other comments there is only one winding. I learned something which is always a good day.
@rrowan327
@rrowan327 19 күн бұрын
Hi RJ, I just came across your channel and subscribed. I'm looking forward to watch all of your videos. Wondering you if you remember me Rick (rrowan) from a few years back doing light shows. Take care and I hope you and your family are doing well.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 19 күн бұрын
WOW, hey Rick of course I remember you! Diylightanimation would never been what it was without you. We are doing great. Becky and I retired about a year ago and all three boys are now married and the oldest has a three year old boy. So I’m a grandpa now. I hope your family is doing well and it is so great to hear from you. Do you still do a Xmas light show? Don’t be a stranger.
@rrowan327
@rrowan327 16 күн бұрын
@@LynxElectronicsLab Yes Professor. I am still using the Lynx system for my light show. I just being doing basic service on the boards and fixing my beginner learning mistakes. With my blushing bride of 37 years we are going on another anniversary cruise soon. After 40 plus years of working, I retired in July 1, 2022. It feels great. I am guessing RJ's Angels are gone. LOL
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 15 күн бұрын
Glad to hear you are still doing lights shows. I haven't done one since the last one you saw me do. Funny my bride of 39 years and I are going on an Alaskan cruise next year for our 40th.
@k.c.sunshine1934
@k.c.sunshine1934 9 күн бұрын
BEWARE: On the unit that I have, the switch is single-pole-double-throw and when switching off, it takes the primary and connects it to ground/neutral. My switch failed after a few months of normal usage and I think was because the full energy of the primary being dumped through the switch if the user gets unlucky when switching off. I would have liked to see a snubber circuit instead of the SPDT switch to ground like I had. My work-around was to disconnect the switch and use the power plug to turn it on/off.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 9 күн бұрын
Thanks for the heads up! I will keep an eye out for this. RJ
@jd3497
@jd3497 14 күн бұрын
Do believe the UL marking are genuine? What gauge cord is on it?
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 14 күн бұрын
Thanks for the question. Not sure the gauge I did not measure it. It could be fake on the cord, but the gauge looked the same as a dell computer cord I cut to replace a bad cord on a project. RJ
@bt410382
@bt410382 16 күн бұрын
for mains devices, I always prefer spade terminals. solder seems amateurish to me. (at least they should have used shrink tubing) one other thing I question on Chinese instruments is wiring. they don't use real copper whenever possible. I've seen so many examples with aluminum or copper coated aluminum.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 16 күн бұрын
Yes, I notice this also. They love aluminum wire.
@inothome
@inothome 10 күн бұрын
Soldering is hands down a much better connection than spade terminals, especially for higher current devices. 50% of my trouble calls on heaters, refrigerators, HVAC equipment is due to crappy spade terminals getting hot, burning off, meting switches or just falling off over time. Whether from a bad crimp or just no spring tension on the spade. I can't recall anything that failed due to a solder joint where a spade connector could be used instead. Sure, PCBs and cracked solder joints is a thing. But on applications like this, soldering is much better.
@AdmiralQuality
@AdmiralQuality 9 күн бұрын
There is no secondary, it's an autotransformer. The "auto" part means "self". (Some company in China makes one that's also an isolation transformer and that one does have a secondary, but this doesn't appear to be that - they're rare. Also, if it was an isolation transformer it would be defeated by the continuous ground from input to output and you'd have to add a cheater plug adaptor to ensure your DUT is isolated from the mains.)
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 9 күн бұрын
Thanks, please see the other comments and videos where we discuss this.
@philcook9967
@philcook9967 6 күн бұрын
I don't understand why there is a 20 amp fuse when it has a 15 amp plug.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 6 күн бұрын
Phil, The fusing on something protects the item after it in the flow of current. So the 20 amp fuse is protecting the 20 amp winding in the transformer. The cord to the device is protected by the circuit breaker of the outlet. The reason is simple. Imagine that the device end of the cord was shorted out. No current would flow through the fuse so it would be unable to protect it. So all devices are intended to be protected by the current protection before them. In this case the 15 amp circuit breaker at the breaker box. Remember that you can buy this same exact device with cords and plugs for different outlets that might be able to provide the full 20 amps so it is fused for its rated current not the supply current ratings. Hopefully that clears it up for you. RJ
@tonysheerness2427
@tonysheerness2427 16 күн бұрын
Excuse my confusion, I thought the earth on the secondary should not connect to the earth of the chassis or the mains earth. Everything should be separate on the secondary side..There should be no earth on the secondary side as you only have hot and neutral wires as that is all you need. The earth in the mains is because it is used as the neutral return to the grid.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 16 күн бұрын
Thanks for the question. That is what you want on an isolation transformer. These are not advertised as isolation devices. I have a separate isolation transformer for that. It is an upcoming video. RJ
@tonysheerness2427
@tonysheerness2427 16 күн бұрын
@@LynxElectronicsLab Thanks two, different things
@PG-ji6vq
@PG-ji6vq 13 күн бұрын
As far as I can tell the secondary winding is also floating, meaning it’s a bit less likely to kill me…
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 13 күн бұрын
Thanks, check out the other comments where I get educated that there is only on winding in these units.
@thomasmaughan4798
@thomasmaughan4798 11 күн бұрын
@@LynxElectronicsLab There is a special isolation autotransformer that combines actual isolation with variable transformer. In other words, it has a primary winding and a secondary winding and the brush contacts only the secondary winding. we had one in school it was very big and heavy and of course expensive. as others mention you can simply daisy chain an isolation transformer to a variable autotransformer. Interesting, the Staco brand (which it was) is now on the Variac website. variac.com/staco/PDFCutSheets/VT%20isolated.pdf
@nielsdaemen
@nielsdaemen 10 күн бұрын
What are the core losses?
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 10 күн бұрын
I do not know. This does not appear in any of the specs listed. RJ
@nielsdaemen
@nielsdaemen 10 күн бұрын
@@LynxElectronicsLab Alright, I thought maybe you could measure it using a power meter. I'm trying to find a really efficient and powerful transformer
@larslindgren3846
@larslindgren3846 18 күн бұрын
You are wrong. The fuse on the primary side don't protect the secondary, if the secondary is set to a lower voltage the secondary curent can be much higher than the primary current. This is probably the most likely fault situation and it is unprotected. If you conect a DUT with a short circuit and increase the voltage slowly then when you reach e.g. 10 V you can draw 50 A on the secondary while only drawing about 5 amps on the primary. That can release the magic smoke very fast. A fuse on the primary side is good to protect against internal faults but labb equipment definitely needs to be protected against faulty DUTs and that requires a fuse on the secondary side. I would definitely add a fuse on the secondary side if it was mine.
@pcrepairshop12
@pcrepairshop12 18 күн бұрын
thats why you put 5a fast acting fuse on primary, putting 20a fuse on secondary is good precarious too. so nether is wrong unless you put 20a on primary😅, that will short that 1kva transformer but still blow up that fuse or breaker. edit: should be a 10a fuse on 120v if 1kva transformer.
@larslindgren3846
@larslindgren3846 18 күн бұрын
@@pcrepairshop12 He said it was rated 20 A and since it can output the full input voltage the fuse on the primary needs to be 20A. I think kVA ratings on variable auto transformers is confusing. Maximum output power (2.4 kVA) is when the input voltage and output voltage is the same but then the input is directly connected to the output and the transformer don't transform any power. The maximum transformed power happens when the output voltage is 60V at 20 A output. That is 600VA since 60 V of the primary voltage at 10A primary current is transformed into an extra 10A at 60V at the output.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 18 күн бұрын
Thanks for the input! I think you are referring to me saying I believe it can handle the 20 amps of the primary And that the fuse on primary protects the secondary. The confusion is that the secondary and primary on transformers are not normally rated in amps. This is why the rating on the unit is 2kva ( not the 1kva model) for up to one minute. This apples to both windings. it is up to the user to not exceed the limit. So for an output of 120v it can handle 16 amps both sides. At 100 volts it’s 20 amps and this is the fuse they install. If you pull more than the 2000va on the secondary it will blow the fuse on the primary. VA on one side of transformer always equal to VA on other. Do I recommend anyone push these that hard? Heck NO! The most I will be using is 120 volts at 4 amps (480VA) most radios etc on the bench will be 30watts (1/4 amp). In the upcoming videos you will see why I am not concerned about hooking it up find a shorted device. RJ
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 18 күн бұрын
Lars you are correct. Transformer ratings are confusing. They do not normal give an amp rating as the VA rating handles the amp rating at the voltage. RJ
@larslindgren3846
@larslindgren3846 18 күн бұрын
​@@LynxElectronicsLabThis is a autotransformer. It only has one winding with a movable tap. It is specified at max 20 A output according to Amazon listing. If you think 2000VA output rating applies regardless of output voltage setting you are wrong. You can not load it with 200A at 10V. Your reasoning that transformers are limited by the VA rating and that both sides have the same VA rating applies to most normal two winding transformers but not to variable transformers like this.
@reedreamer9518
@reedreamer9518 10 күн бұрын
There is something odd about these cheap Chinese variable autotransformers. A few years ago I bought one on Amazon, it was a LVYUAN Variable Transformer rated at 1.0kVA. I also bought a used one on eBay, a Staco Inc Industrial Variable Autotransformer model 3PN1010 rated at 1.5 kVA. Testing and comparing the two, the Staco (an American company I think) was about half the size and weight, yet it outperformed the super cheap Chinese product, which was twice the size and weight as the Staco. These two autotransformers are electrically the same yet the smaller American made one performed 50% better than the cheap Chinese one. I assume the difference is in the exact way the laminate core is constructed. Nearly all Chinese technology has been copied from the West and so its not surprising that when they manufacture a copy of Western technology it comes out like an imperfect facsimile, having the appearance of the original without its substance.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 10 күн бұрын
Interesting, When you say it outperformed do you mean it’s rated output or was there something else you noticed about it’s performed. RJ
@reedreamer9518
@reedreamer9518 10 күн бұрын
@@LynxElectronicsLab Well, as I recall (this was 3 years ago, maybe) I tested the LVYUAN with a 900 watt resistive load and the Staco with a 1400 watt resistive load, so they both performed nominally according to their ratings. I didn't push the limits until failure or anything like that. As it turned out, I returned the LVYUAN to Amazon for some reason, but I don't remember exactly why. I remember the meter was pretty wonkey, but more likely because it was redundant and inferior to the Staco.
@thomasmaughan4798
@thomasmaughan4798 11 күн бұрын
"Is It Safe to Use?" Yes.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 10 күн бұрын
👍 RJ
@shannonroberts5080
@shannonroberts5080 16 күн бұрын
You keep saying primary and secondary winding and I think that's a mistake. My variable transformer which looks exactly like this one has only one winding with a moveable tap. You can confirm this by checking if there is any isolation between the plug and the outlets on the device. With one winding - any point about fusing the primary or secondary winding is moot.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 16 күн бұрын
We were just talking about this in the other comments. I had to go look up how this thing works as it is not what I thought. There is only one windings. So you are correct. Thanks! RJ
@shannonroberts5080
@shannonroberts5080 16 күн бұрын
@@LynxElectronicsLab Whoops! I guess I should have read more comments before posting a redundant one! Nice video, btw.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 16 күн бұрын
No problem I ❤️ comments!
@deltab9768
@deltab9768 14 күн бұрын
There’s still some relevance to it IMO. If the output is set to, say, 30V, it’s possible that you could have 4x as much current coming out as going in. You could cook a section of the winding even if the input current is normal.
@shannonroberts5080
@shannonroberts5080 14 күн бұрын
@deltab9768 Yes, you're right. Good point. I suppose I was thinking that it wouldn't really be reasonable to put a fuse on the output since the maximum current output depends on the position of the adjustment knob. I guess you could put a fuse based on the maximum current capacity of the winding. That would protect against the case you just described whereas a fuse on the input wouldn't.
@ovalwingnut
@ovalwingnut 18 күн бұрын
I would not own a Chinese Red autotransformer Period. I own several (big & small) classic Variacs™But that's just me. Thank you for the video. You RoCk!
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 18 күн бұрын
Thanks for the input. We will see how it goes on the rare cases where I will use it. The good thing is you will be able to see do OK or blow up 💥either way. RJ
@thomasmaughan4798
@thomasmaughan4798 11 күн бұрын
I own a red Chinese variable autotransformer. It works great for its intended purpose, to gradually increase voltage on an old Crown audio amplifier and I need to "re-form" the electrolytic capacitors.
@billcogneeto7286
@billcogneeto7286 Күн бұрын
Its 20 Amps.. ?????WTF TWENTY AMPS ???/ . hahahahahahahah nothing to see here.
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab Күн бұрын
Thanks for the input. RJ
@darrenmurphy6251
@darrenmurphy6251 16 күн бұрын
That's an irrelevant way to test earthing there was no test current there, you have to load the earth bond with a decent test current like 10a or 20a for a few seconds I use 12v psu and halogen lamps as dummy loads for this, you get sparking from earth lugs that are paint Contaminated even when there's a shake proof washer cutting through the paint
@Addonexus1000
@Addonexus1000 16 күн бұрын
I don't think irrelevant is the right word... Its definitely relevant. I'll admit an actual load test is way better than his simple continuity test though.
@darrenmurphy6251
@darrenmurphy6251 16 күн бұрын
Yes I missed the point you were focused on looking for incorrect wiring, but my method will expose wire too thin (copper cross section) and poor connection techniques
@LynxElectronicsLab
@LynxElectronicsLab 16 күн бұрын
Yes, the intent was to respond to a comment on incorrect wiring. You are correct to take it any farther would require a load to verify. RJ
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