Ministry of Truth, Ministry of Peace... when do we get to see the Ministry of Love?

Apparently Bush was a huge B5 fan. JMS once stated he wanted to tell W B5 was partly created as a warning AGAINST the rise of totalitarian regimes - NOT as a treatise on how to create one. Obviously, the Orange asshole took it even a step further and even tried to sever all our dreams, if you know what I mean!!!

All this stuff is more up to date than ever. And Clark is astonishing, similar to a real president. Just give him a yellow wig and paint his face orange.

@@tulinfirenze1990 Funny, I see more in line with the Orange guy's successor, and his administration's demands for mandatory surrender of body autonomy or have jobs, travel, and economic activities restricted. Not to mention their expectation that private citizens like business owners and flight attendants be the complicit enforcers of those restrictions or be vilified also.

@@Nikioko The sad thing is it took assassination in this show but in modern America morons elected our own president Clark.

"Who knew they were French?"

Zog yes? Zog no?

@@derickennedy6278 There is no "yes". There is no "no". There is only... ZOG!

Ah, so humans DID have contact with the First Ones, we just didn't know who they WERE

@@donaldpaluga if by "contact" you mean, "got run over by", then sure!

Very much like that.

Yeah, well, Rangers, Forces of light, Shadows, etc. JMS wears his influences on his sleeve...

@@tombaxter6228 Well, the term Rangers, and others, as far as I know, is much older than LOTR, I'd rather say that both JMS and Tolkien draw on similar mythology and concepts here.

The zoom in to one Shadow eye-slit suggests exactly where the idea came from. - and before the LOTR movies, too.

The legend of the gathering of the heroes is happening here: very King Arthur / Robin Hood.

"Who knew they'd be French" * When I heard that line the first time I watched B5 in English I had a very good and long laugh. As good as the German translation is, that is one line they couldn't properly translate while matching the lip-movements. But they worked in another good joke about Susan's pacing instead. ^^

Il get the bucket

@@Norbert_Sattler Thanks', I must have misremembered. :)

@@Norbert_Sattler Would love to hear that German translation if you remember it! My DVDs only have the dub for season one, and as much as I prefer the original it'd be funny to catch the jokes in other languages too.

@@mayra3277 Something along the lines of: "Müssen sie ständig auf- und abgehen." "Wäre es Ihnen lieber wenn ich auf und ab steppe?" or for the english speakers: "Do you have to pace back and forth?" "Would you prefer me to tap-dance back and forth?" Loses a bit when only written down though. ^^ In English I believe she asks Marcus if there was a specific way he'd like her to pace or somesuch.

"When we rewrote the dictionary", that's straight out of "1984". As is the existence of a "Ministry of Peace". Which hints at the direction EarthGov is taking.

@@Nergalsama01 I know! that is the most chilling line in this episode.

Clarke actually says, “I’ve wanted Santiago dead for so long...”

I think we can induce that what Clarke wanted was (Palpatine voice) "Unlimited Power!!!!"

@@simongiles9749 That’s what they all want. Power and control. More than the millions they steal from the taxpayers, what they want most is to rule.

I already said it in another comment, but in the dubbed version I watched back then, they didn't use Morden's voice in that scene because the people doing the dubbing weren't told it was supposed to be Morden. Imagine my disappointment when I found out later.

@k0001daddy @sdfried Oooh good catch, I never made that connection before

I seem to remember JMS saying that he had wanted to sue, but WB said no, that would have stalled both shows, probably killed them. I am glad we got 2 quite different shows out of the general idea.

Plus Franklin's diatribe against the concept of "spacing" somebody (as Quark would always threaten Rom) as something that was humorous, rather than being a slow, tortuous way to die.

@@BabylonLurker It was not a general idea, it was rough first draft of the whole five year story arc with character and locations bios and artwork. There is a reason why so many DS9 characters have names that sound like B5 characters, they changed the spelling but kept the name itself.

Amazing writing, this one phrase has like 4 layers of depth behind it, roasting Musante, roasting Sharidan, roasting ST, roasting everyone!

@@Matej_Sojka Some might say that several characters are transplants as well, namely the stoic, no-nonsense female second-in-commands. People tend to forget, however, that Susan Ivanova replaced the previous XO on Babylon 5 from the pilot, and when the character was originally written nobody expected that Claudia Christian has a definite comedic talent that was going to waste if they did not tweak the character rather quickly (hence the arc of her father's illness, death, and moving on).

If only she boffed him....

So true. The only other show that came close for me was the Expanse. Also an amazing work of sci-fi drama with memorable set pieces, dialog and characters.

This one isn't a two parter though. Sometimes she has to split individual episodes in two parts to combat the frivolous copyright claims.

I wonder if 45 ever had control of the nuclear 'football', and if not, how not.

"The United States does NOT torture prisoners." "What about the waterboarding and stuff?" "That's not 'torture'. It's 'enhanced interrogation'."

The warnings in B5 are universal. Governments throughout history have abused power and undermined freedoms in the name of the people and their safety, but it is sadly rare for them to actually mean what they say.

Apparently Bush was a huge B5 fan. JMS once stated he wanted to tell W B5 was partly created as a warning AGAINST the rise of totalitarian regimes - NOT as a treatise on how to create one. Obviously, the Orange asshole took it even a step further and even tried to sever all our dreams, if you know what I mean!!!

@@tulinfirenze1990 MAGA.

Every time this episode is looked at by someone you get people who pop up with this particular comment or ones in a similar vein. It really annoys me how they co-opt it with gusto. What alot of these people forget is at the time B5 was aired it was a Bill Clinton administration, and alot of the 'Orwelian' stuff Earth in the show was doing, literally happened only a few years latter during the Bush era and especially post 9/11. Huge clamps on the media, 'see something report something' signs in public, Alert levels used to hide government actions when they needed the cover through using public fear as distraction, redefining problems with phrases such as 'coalition of the willing' and 'fighting a war on terror', swaths of the populace considering anything anti (their) government to being anti patriotic (and patriotism being considered more important than being morally right) etc. No idea if your Conservative, or if you were even alive at the time any of that happened, although your comment is pretty heavy in that direction, but Conservatives love to comment on the clips of the B5 ministry of truth woman talking about truth speak etc as some sort of example about the big bad Democarates... yet completely ignore that their own side have, did for 8+ years and still do run that play book perfectly... and lets not forget the 'truth speak' jingoism birthed out of the last US administration, or do memories only last less than a year now? also... theres the fact J. Michael Straczynski is a big bad Liberal to boot. But i guess when it can be used against the other side he's suddenly on the conservative side of the fence since it suits their needs?

@@NZBigfoot Original author's intention aside (and *that* is pretty well-known, given that JMS spoke -- ranted! -- at length about the politics of B5 on Usenet back when the show was on the air), the show has wide enough applicability that it can pretty easily be interpreted as an allegory of one's (imaginary) enemies by basically everyone, which is a credit to its writing. So I'm not surprised that the wingnuts are latching onto it right now. I'm really curious what that reboot is going to be like in that regard, given that JMS has seen people he wouldn't agree with co-opt the original show's themes for going on 25 years now...

@@NZBigfoot So...one of the interesting things about Babylon 5, and some other shows, like Kenneth Johnson's wonderful V miniseries, is how open to interpretation they are. And how it is often assumed that they're representing the current state of the world, forgetting that these themes are *eternal*, unfortunately. I'm well aware of Straczynski's political leanings (he didn't have San Diego nuked in B5 for nothing!). One of my favorite quotes of his was that Boxleightner and Doyle's political leanings lay to right of Genghis Khan! But the ideas behind the Ministry of Truth, Night Watch, and the other "programs" implemented by Clark's administration are a playbook as old as time, and can ring true no matter WHEN they are presented. When Straczynski presented these episodes, the Clinton administration was indeed in office. And yes, I lived through those years as an adult. The left could interpret those episodes as commentaries on right-wing tactics being used against The Clintons and their administration. So too could many on the right make the same claims against the left, which they did. And... let's be observant of the fact that the owner of this channel is an international citizen and not located in the US, shall we? So, with regard to B5 and that era - which side in the US could claim that "side" represented THEIR POV? I know where I stand, and I pretty much know where JMS stands too. But the thing is, that almost doesn't matter...those subjects don't *belong* to the 90's, or any era. As long as humans have been around...what's the song? "Everything Old is New Again!" I rought up Kenneth Johnson's V as it shares many similarities with B5, ...at one point JMS was hired to write a continuation of it (which didn't go through). Of course, Johnson based his story on Sinclair Lewis' great book (SINCLAIR Lewis?!) "It Can't Happen Here". V was broadcast in 1983 during the Reagan Administration, and some could make the claim that Visitors' tactics reflected those of the Reagan Admistration during that time (without the hamster swallowing of course). Those on the right could of course maintain that much of V represented the left's intentions, especially regarding media. Who's right? Depends on your POV. I'm pretty sure Johnson didn't see *everything* in such B&W terms, with there being fascists on on sides. And it's not stated in the show itself, but the electronic news kits at the time made note of the fact that Johnson said Dr. Parrish, the leader of the resistance, was a Republican. Her portrayer, Faye Grant, said she was very please to be playing such a multi-layered character. With regard to Straczynski and his B5 reboot...he himself has said that his whole raison d'tere for reboot is the current climate, both in the US and around the world. And understand...just because an administration is out of office DOESN'T mean that something like the CW B5 *can't* comment on it... I write all this to note that the dangers of fascism are eternal, and as Sinclair Lewis wrote, there must eternal vigilance in preventing its rise in free societies. The unfortunate problem is *getting people to agree* on where the growing fascism lies, what *qualifies* as fascism, and *how* to prevent its rise without resorting to war and genocide. It will always be an ongoing discussion no matter where you are, and while this can sting like hell, it's a healthy thing. As is the presence of productions like V and B5 - if people won't read Lewis' book, then these shows can hopefully get people thinking and talking. As we have been, Presumptious Psuedonym. I'm not going to reveal my political leanings, as I don't owe you that in this discussion (although maybe you'd be surprised?!).. I'd also like to recommend Kenneth Johnson's V miniseries, if you haven't seen it - well worth your time! Surprisingly prescient too...although the idea that science itself could be disputed as propaganda, and that scientists themselves could be scapegoated, smeared, and menaced, almost like the jews in WWII, is pretty far out. Nope, That Couldn't Happen Here...

@@okreylos One of the most interesting things I've noticed about B5 political commentary is that, on KZfaq alone, there are comments from pretty much every single year comparing "our administration", sometimes the US in name (though I guess most other commenters meant it too). I bet on other sites/platforms/... people will have said the same before KZfaq even existed. Definitely a credit to his writing that it is seen as such a universal parallel to pretty different governments, even if I don't agree with every comparison.

or indeed, all of history.

Those who don't learn from history-- won't see it coming until it's too late.

Ivanova: "Thats it !!!!!!!!!" Marcus: "Fine, I'll get a Bucket !"

Love and remember that "Boojee" line all these years later. I hope it gets used in the remake I hear is in the works

The CGI in B5 was all done on a set of Commodore Amiga 4000's linked in a LAN I once bought a copy of the software and tried to run it on my Amiga 1200 it was like asking a 5 year old to read War&peace.

'Flaming Rockhead Interface' yes! Reminds me of the Living Tribunal of Marvel Comics, recently seen in passing in Loki.

@@ianjardine7324 that's what they were Commodores ! Thanks Ian !

@@stevetheduck1425 Right?! I got a Tribunal feel from it too!

Lesson One: You are all going to look _fabulous_ in purple!

@@BogeyTheBear No. Green!

I just pictured her naked. *shiver*

@@sdfried4877 yikes, I apologize for that. 😣

More like a prettier Sarah Shuckabee Sanders

@@donaldpaluga never saw Sanders speak to the press, so I can't honestly say whether she blatantly lied, spun, and propagandized as much as Psaki does.

@@donaldpaluga Hey, that’s hilarious. You should write jokes for Colbert.

CANNOT wait!!!!!!! No spoilers for Medusa!!!!!!!!

My favorite episode

@@tulinfirenze1990 She does not read KZfaq comments for that reason, and Patreon is Moderated.

I hope everybody sees the parallel with any CULTS... today the woke cult is the same, but this behavior is universal in time...

The main 3 games give me a B5 vibe tbh and I love them for it ^^... Now just imagine an actual B5 game in that mass effect line

Personally the Reapers always reminded me of the Shivans from FreeSpace. But then again both the Shivans and the Shadows have their roots in Hindu creation myth, so they are rather closely related in a way.

@@Norbert_Sattler Didn't know Hindu was billions of years old.

@@LIA-52 You do realise that the Reapers are not actually billions of years old, and have in fact only been around since 2007, right?

@@Carabas72 Not necessarily, we may not have known about them before 2007, but that doesn't mean that they didn't exist before then.

And 2020 forward...

The allegory seemed heavy handed at the time but it’s blatantly happening right now in a coordinated manner in almost every country on the planet and so many are simply accepting it.

@@sdfried4877 Orwell would be horrified.

@@SGlitz Can’t say he didn’t warn us. The method has never changed. They just keep repackaging it and trying to push it down people’s throats every other decade. This time, it’s the worst as it seems to be worldwide and involving almost every government. At least the Soviets could defect to the West. There may be no way to escape this if it doesn’t end soon.

@@sdfried4877 it won't end.🤮 the sheep don't even understand the wolves.

Some things never change.

- or indeed any nationalist or totalitarian organisation: the manufacturing of the enemy, the purification of the loyal, the purging of those who disagree, the lip-service to truth and justice while re-defining all words including truth and justice and of course 'human'... If one sees any or all of these, then an evil leadership is in power. As poor Zack is discovering, it's so easy to slip down that slope...

"gone a bit dictatory" I like that. That's mine now.

"welcome to current american poliltics" - Can you give examples?