Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for pointing out that singers were normally placed in front of, not behind the instrumentalists! Bach scholar Christoph Wolf has spoken of this in lectures, noting that there were music stands for the choristers actually mounted on the balcony rail at the Thomaskirche in Leipzig, obviously putting the singers in front of the orchestra. And yes, Wolf also mentioned how the trumpets and timpani had a special location tucked away behind all the other instruments, in order for them not to sound too prominent. In fact, having the chorus placed in front of the orchestra was a practice that lasted well into the 19th century, even when it required singers to be seated, and/or the instrumentalists to be placed on risers -- or even for sub-conductors to be used. In so many modern performances of works with chorus and orchestra, balance problems are constant; reviving the historical placement practice would solve so many of these problems, so it's frankly bizarre that this is practically never done, even by ostensibly "historically informed" performers.

A more relevant question, as ever, is not what Bach did, but what he WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE DONE, if he had the resources.

Also, there’s an early 19th century drawing of a Handel oratorio performance in Covent Garden, clearly showing the singers in front of the orchestra. This makes complete musical sense, when you think about what’s important in the work.

This is directly relevant to ripieno markings in Handel’s late scores, when he had extra strings. I wrote about this some decades ago, but was blocked by an established scholar who thought my interpretation was bunk, and that it was a late notation of a standard practice rather than a practice tied to an availability of forces at this late date. These markings, however, only appear in works performed in 1749, when there is also evidence of enlarged orchestral forces.

The ducks and turtles (17:53 ) are adorable ! = ) // Brilliant pronunciation of "18th - century" !!!

Thanks for this great episode. Just for the sake of precision: the distance between Osnabrück and Leipzig is about 400 km, not 70 km (timestamp 20:38). It's quiet a different place in the German landscape.

Thank you. I enjoyed this very much. I've often thought that the bloated choirs used in the big choral works makes everything sound heavy. When I first heard Rifkin's recording of the Mass in B Minor with one on a part, it was a revelation. So beautiful and so pure.

I had never considered the size of a choir to be time period dependent. A wonderful discussion. Keep up with these fascinating discussions.

The extra singer caveat “in case of illness” feels especially relevant at present.

You stole my topic suggestions I made in our lecture in Den Haag with you. 😅😅😇😇 Thank you for making this video. I was waiting for a long time to hear some clear words, that where more than " we don't know" and "could be". Thanks for doing this in your calm, objective and entertaining way. I just started to sing out of the manuscripts in original size. It came to me that they might have needed lighting, performing the passions in the winter morning. Holding the light and turning the page must be problematic. Multiple solutions for that problem possible of cause.

Excellent work, as usual! Your videos are a great service to the field of early music!

Fabulous video as always!!…. So wonderfully produced!! Thank you!!🌺

Very good episode! Thank you, Elam et consortes :)

absolutely fantastic video! many thanks!

Always so clear, well balanced, sympathetic, humble. Thank you!

Thank you for sharing these precious knowledge and insights.

Ah yes! This was the subject of an essay I wrote during my musicology studies. Great video! Keep up the good work!

Well now it's time for Kunst der Fugue in nex video!!! :) Excellent episode like always!!!

Quite fascinating. Thanks for this!

The word Entwurff has been translated in various ways. The translation is not without issues. For example, a draft implies a rough state, whereas design has more of a connotation of a well though-out plan. Proposal is somewhat more neutral, and memo leans a bit more towards Bach. I myself prefer design, plan or proposal. Bach by nature was a creature of design. However, one can also look at it that he may have designed it carefully, but that the circumstances align with a proposal. Plan is in line with the overall architectural style of Bach's ideas.

I was wondering when you would enter the fray on this touchy subject. First learned of the combattimenti di Rifkin e Glöckner at Cambridge in 2011, when it was experiencing yet another flare up in the letters section of Early Music. The same kinds of academic slapfights exist everywhere, I'm sure - certainly in my own trade of instrument making. Thanks as always, lovely work.

Cannot thank you enough for again another illuminating brilliant and delightful lesson. Long life to EM Sources

Oh my... I was kind of nervous as I saw the title of the video... but thank god it's completely flawless and does not contain any "german old school" defensive nonsense. 😅

Wow. That was EXTREMELY interesting. As a huge Bach lover, I’m a bit of ashamed of having discovered this channel just now… Will have a long week of going over the material here. Thanks a lot! אכן דיון מרתק לגמרי. המון תודה

Even though I think Rifkin is right, I don’t want to see modern choirs and choral societies being deterred from performing Bach’s “not-choral” choral music (though super large choirs probably aren’t optimal). The music’s wonderful. How can I object to anyone wanting to sing it? We know Bach didn’t compose his keyboard music for the modern Steinway-type piano. But we also have a whole series of excellent pianists performing it thoughtfully and imaginatively on that type of instrument. We don’t have to choose between someone performing it on an 18th century-type instrument and someone performing it on a Steinway. There’s room for both approaches.

I love your videos. I always learn something interesting and new, and my understanding of how modern music is connected to the past is deepened. There is a nothing new under the sun it seems.

Fascinating and informative as always. I know Joshua Rifkin from his beautiful recordings of Scott Joplin's music. I didn't know Rifkin had such insightful views on early music vocal performance. Thanks

Again so well and profoundly made, thanks so much, Elam! Your channel is such an enormous gift to the interested public! Just as a side note on this particular episode: The distance between Osnabrück and Leipzig is far bigger than mentioned, it’s around 315 kilometers by air. But that’s just a petitesse. 🙏Benno

Thank you! Your videos are clearly only for those who really really care about early music; count me in!

Thanks again for an informative and fascinating video. I first heard the St Matthew performed by Klemperer (in the 70’s probably) but graduated via Harnoncourt and others to the Netherlands Bach crew over 40 years. We are so lucky to be in this revolution. I now love the sound of 1 or 2 singers per part and will usually prefer that, but I can still be amazed at how much people like Klemperer achieved in their own way.

Wonderful video, thank you!

Thank you! Interesting analysis. Clearly, your videos are for those who really really care about early music; count me in! I hope you do something someday on Anthony Holborne.

Awesome stuff, Elam! One of my favorite things in renaissance music is the mid-line modulations. Modulation has come up passively in past videos, but can you consider doing a video that's more focused modulation specifically, and their thinking behind it? I feel like I'm starting to link it all together slowly (between your videos on cadences and durum and molle, etc), but you're videos are entertaining and clear that I know it'd be valuable, hopefully to many!

I (and I suspect many others) have been waiting for a video on this subject, thank you! I read what I could find back when I first heard of the controversy, and while for some time I was on the fence regarding the aesthetic qualities of one singer to a part, I was actually shocked at the intellectual weakness of many of the arguments against it. With musical giants such as Beethoven or Mozart, and Bach in particular, there is an excessive reluctance to entertain different ideas of how to perform them. There is an irony in this: where I live there is even a festival dedicated to performing Bach's music including in all sorts of innovative arrangements, by musicians from all sorts of different traditions; but when it comes to the performances of his choral music "as written", it's with multiple singers to a part, standing behind an orchestra with a modern chamber organ, on a stage instead of the in the organ loft they face. I'm not against this at all, but why can't we have both?

I know it is a very minor point, and entirely off-topic, but cheeky moments such as 17:52 show that you are simply a top-notch videographer :-)

Thank you very much, Elam. I have been a follower of Bach’s Cantatas since Harnoncourt’s/Leonhardt’s early 1970s recordings. Your presentation is extremely valuable to me, as I am not a scholar - yet am able to understand fully what you are saying. Everything makes sense, now. Again, thank you.

Thank you. Very informative and enjoyable.

Thank you very much. BRAVO!

Fantastic presentation of the issues and conclusions that can be drawn!

Bravo. I think now of the bloated versions of Bach for orchestra or orchestral versions of his organ fugues crafted by Stokowski, using a monstrously huge orchestras, how utterly ludicrous they sound when compared say, to Toronto's "Taffel Musik Ensemble" who would perform Bach's works using a rather small number of players. I think of the various versions of Pachelbel's Canon in D which again you can hear in a stripped down performance played quite briskly or you can hear my favorite (because it was used as extro music on a beloved CBC radio program), the version performed by the Jean Francois Paillard Orchestra, sounding every bit as lush as Stokowski or Beecham.....begging the questions about authenticity and number of performers. So happy to hear your thoughts on this fascinating subject. Yeah for Rifkin!

Thank you for this knowledge 🙏🌟

A very informative piece, thank you. I can perhaps add another piece to the puzzle. Some years ago I was in Leipzig so (naturally) I had to visit St. Thomas's. While we were looking around four singers turned up for what I'd guess is a regular practice session. The sound just these four made was amazing and easily able to fill what is a very large space. So I'd guess that for this and similar churches you really only needed additional singers to provide texture. There's also positioning -- when this group started singing two were at the back, two in the center and the acoustic effect was very different from when they were all together in a line in the middle of the nave. (The acoustics of a Baroque church are very different from a concert hall. This alone would account for differences in choir size and position -- people end up being positioned where the look and sound the best.)

It's always great when no matter how convincing and definite you think a full choir version of a cantata by Richter sounds, you stumble upon a small ensemble version by herreweghe or koopman and it sounds just as definite and sublime.

Very clear presentation of information we've essentially known for forty years, but is still largely dismissed as irrelevant or even as fake news in musical practice.

Estoy leyendo como siempre los comentarios pues aprendo más. Gracias a todos

I learnt a lot, thank you !

As someone who has sung Bach with one person per voice, and in small choirs, and in large choirs, I can say that there's something musically to be said for all versions. Nice work as usual, Elam. Lunch invitation stands. Cheers from sunny Vienna, Scott

A million thanks for your research. Why is this not taught as part of history.i always wanted to read about this. Thank you so much.

Since I watched a performance of Mozart's Requiem yesterday, this video helped me realise that it's technically structured like a Cantata

I'm partial about JSB, thanks so much for this episode.

A choir consisting of only a double quartet is so beautiful!

Every video a gem. We are learning so many new things about...what's his name again? ;) I have wondered about the large choirs in modern performance...I mean how does one train them properly with individual singing during practice?

Thanks for all this teaching information. I think an analysis of Renaissance archetypes of music influencing on Bach would be so useful. Works such as the Art of Fugue (Fuga a 3 Soggetti especially)...

Bravo! This is all beautifully presented and explained. (And the humour is always very much appreciated.) I can't help but wonder what JSB would have thought of some of the phalanxes of singers that have been deployed in quasi-historical 're-enactments' of his works since the time of Mendelssohn. It likely would've been something like: 'Oh dear, this should be interesting. Perhaps I should first stop off at the Bierhaus for a Krüge or three'. Love all your videos, cheers!

Vielen Dank. Wir haben sehr schöne Projekte mit BWV 5 und BWV 99 in dieser Aufführungspraxis ( mit minimaler Orchesterbesetzung) aufgeführt. Was wir zukünftig machen werden, den Chor (Doppelquartett), aus dem auch die Soli gesungen werden vor den Instrumenten aufzustellen, macht am meisten Sinn und Klang

thank you for this interesting discussion 😁

It seems likely to me that this whole debate is caused by musicians assuming that Bach’s ensemble was more like the modern orchestra and chorus than it really was. Today, 4 singers might have difficulty projecting above the instrumental forces described, but baroque strings and keyboards simply do not project as well as modern string instruments (and the orchestra was probably not always the best musicians playing the highest quality instruments - it was a student ensemble, after all). Also, modern choruses of sections of 5-10 or more sound great because they are extremely well trained, but I would imagine that Bach simply did not have that many singers of that quality at hand.

Thanks so much Elam….the funny part, is seeing the bottles of what you drink when you are with friends…in a party! SO informative!, excellent introduction also for teachers…like me….we dont know enough about Baroque Era in Music, its the foundation of SO much music from Mozart to Mahler and Schoenberg…to Ligeti! so what do you drink?

Wunderbar, e grazie.

I love Bach! When I have a hard time falling asleep, I listen to, some Bach. It is so boring, that I am asleep within 5 minutes, while listening to his music.

The Netherlands Bach Society often utilizes the distinction between cancertists and repienists in many of their cantata performances: it really makes the music much more transparent and the polyphony easier to hear. And, as a church choir master, I really think that it would be beneficial to revive many of these old practices, since they are imminently practical for liturgical and pedogogical purposes: a unison Chorus Choralis to lead congregational singing (beginning singers); and a Chorus Musicus, divided into concertists (most advanced) and repienists ("average" singers).

Wonderful video! Speaking as a singer who most certainly would not have qualified as a soloist in Bach's time, and having some small experience with choral performance combined with orchestra - it always seemed to me that there were two reasons for the choir to be behind the instrumentalists. One being, so the choir wouldn't be deafened >.> But also because with these larger choirs it makes more sense for them to NOT be in front, as their sound will be heavier, louder, just by the numbers. I think, too, that the ease of producing so many parts for so many singers and instrumentalists lent itself to having more performers. And certainly in modern practice, church choirs and school choirs often deal with lots of singers, because the interest and will to rehearse for such music is still quite great and of course most communities are much larger than they once were. No doubt the fact that church and school choirs are NOT paid also has its effect. When you have twenty or more people who really, really want to sing - and you don't wish to disappoint anyone... Well, the result is of course bigger choirs overall. And I imagine that changing architecture contributed too, so that acoustic considerations supported the larger overall sound, right? Another thing I noticed in the Entwurff itself, is Bach's implication that not all of his students were "up to standard," which is of course completely normal for any group of musicians; some are more talented, some are more experienced, and some have much enthusiasm. (And the best, of course, have all three!) But, as you point out, these soloist parts were very often much more demanding, more complicated to learn, and overall just not MEANT for five singers for the same part; delicate ornaments like trills just don't work the same with massed voices, becoming muddy and messy. Thinking on it from that perspective - a single voice for each part may have been entirely necessary even if one had dozens of singers at one's disposal. I get the impression too that - as Rifkin's analogy of a sports team seems to say - there was a common practice of HAVING say, 8 or 12 singers...and "benching" some of them for any given performance. Such things make sense if you look at (for instance) important sacred festival days, where it might very well be expected to produce hours and hours of music: you can't expect all (or even most) of your musicians to just perform for hours on end! Even simpler events no doubt did the same thing we do now when we want "continuous" music - several musicians are available, and they do a specific "set" of songs (or one cantata perhaps?) and then go and sit down and let someone else take the stage for the next set. Physical endurance for long events seems like it would not have changed all that much in just a few centuries, but I could of course be completely mistaken, hah!

The Probst engraving which you presented shows musicians (horn, flute and singers) sharing their parts which seems to contradict one of OVPP enthusiasts` key tenets. Reality is that this picture is probably misattributed in terms of dating. Georg Balthasar Probst lived 1732-1801 and published most of his known oeuvre in the 1770s and 80s. Thus this picture more likely represents the practice of Haydn and Mozart`s time. Besides, it stems from Augsburg (i.e. South Germany, predominantly catholic) so the artist must have experienced choral singing in churches much more often than he would in the Protestant dominated lands.

Bravo!

very convincing laying out of all the evidence. this is really clear! personally I like the way the Netherlands Bach Society organises their voices as a good compromise but for me the real beauty of how this practice might be realised is the way that solo voices can still be heard in "choruses" and especially the anti-theatrical/anti-mimetic way the St Matthew Passion comes across when performed this way

Another absolutely terrific program from Elam and EMS. The usual combination of expert research, utmost clarity in presentation, quality of sources, selected performances, and humor make this video an essential resource for every Bach lover and performer. One comment and one question: In the Entwurff, Bach is not entirely candid, as he doesn't list his male children and non-resident students among the singers and instrumentalists he had regular access to. According to The New Bach Reader (p.151): these musicians "outnumbered the alumni [resident students] by a very wide margin." So the situation was not entirely as dire as Bach strategically made it sound in the Entwurff to convince the town council to provide him with more resources. Should current practice be guided by the forces that Bach would have liked to have at his disposal, or by the forces that he was forced to work with--both vocal and instrumental? (This is similar to a point often made--with some justification--by those who prefer modern instruments to play Bach, arguing that if he had had access to instruments that offered more range, power, and accuracy, he would almost certainly have written music for them.) Bach's core complaint in the Entwurff is that he wanted more resources than he had, suggesting that the use of 4 or 8 singers for vocal works was not his own choice, or the result of historical practice. What does this imply for today's performers?

Great video! I wonder what was the practice in Italy, France and England. The very few thinks that I know come from Charles Burney's writings.

Very interesting video indeed!

My argument for multiple singers per part in Bach’s cantata choruses has nothing to do with historical accuracy. These days, even early music singers have too much vibrato when they sing what they perceive as solo parts, but inexplicably are able to reduce their vibrato when they are singing in a “choir.” Since even light vibrato creates utter chaos in Bach’s most contrapuntally complex choruses, I don’t think they should ever be sung with one voice to a part unless the soloists are able to sing with barely any vibrato. Of course, the ridiculously bloated recordings of Bach cantatas that were popular in the 1970s have Wagnerian singers that still have ridiculously unacceptable vibrato even when they sing 10 to a part.

Thank you for this excellent video. Just a small remark: something that has not changed over the centuries is the distance between Leipzig and Osnabrück. It is about 400 km.

20:40 I'm living in Germany, close to Osnabrück, and I can assure you, Leizig is not closer than 400km at least.

I present for your enjoyment Rossini. Stabat mater.the final fugue included the soloists plus choir for a rollercoaster ride,especially the 1970s version with Pavarotti. A look to the past? I

Toen we dit alles (de terrassendynamiek) een halve eeuw geleden in Vlaanderen en Nederland met het Halewynkoor toepasten, werden we weggehoond. Dank voor die late Wiedergutmachung...

Thank you for this excellent summary. It seems that, in essence, Rifkin was right all along. This is what I'd always suspected, ever since I first heard his pioneering B Minor Mass recording back in the 1980s.

I've always preferred Bach with small choirs and ensembles. The musical lines are clearer, the music more immediate and personal. I love the recordings of Herreweghe, who uses smaller groups and always seems to "nail it." His St Matthew Passion is stunning -- I've listened to it on repeat.

Thanks for this very interesting and useful education! It might not be relevant, but still: Osnabrück is about 400 km from Leipzig and really a different country at Bach‘s time. I believe that it even was catholic, but am not sure about that.

Of course

this video makes a rather murky subject much clearer

17:53 At least 11 strings... in "Bach's orchestra" There is also much to say about this... In the context of the "Entwurff", it comes naturally to imply that the instrumentalists are not thought to be distributed amongst the 3 churches where "serious" music was exspected. Yet... the only reason for this intuition is that Bach's most heavily orchestrated Cantatas need about the number of musicians called for in the "Entwurff". Except for the rather strange call for 2 second Violas, which are never needed in any of Bach's own figural music. However... I don't see why the "sports team" approach should be completely dismissed for the strings. In Leipzig, performance parts normally were written out for 2 I. Violins, 2 II. Violins, 1 Viola and 1-2 Bass strings. So 2 ripieno violins doubling the main parts throughout were normal. But not 3. The question is: Does the Entwurff show that Bach by 1730 (late in his career) whished to augment the church string ensemble (in 4 parts) for each cantata performance to 2-3/2-3/2/2/1 = 9-11 instead of 6-7 players? Did he come to dislike the 2/2/1/0-1/0-1 set? He certainly knew about Zelenka's string ensemble in Dresden which was about the size of 4/3/3/3/2 with 2 true double basses. What about the "small-scale" Cantatas without wind instruments in pairs? Are they seriously to be performed with 9-11 strings? Of course not. And what about the Cantatas where there are (like in Brandenburg 3) obviously a large number of solo strings or seperate violin ripieno parts done in the same way as the vocal ripienists? Furthermore: The Brandenburg concertos underwent a similar controversy as the "choir size" debate. The argument for just 6 string players/one to a part for Brandenburg Concertos 12456 is very, very strong. There is also no serious doubt anymore about the Violone part being written for an 8' "german Bass"/ "G-Violone" (possibly lacking a low G' string) instead of a true double bass, with the possible exception of concerto I. Concerti grossi are extremely similar in conception to concerti ecclesiastici. For example, Corelli's Concerti grossi can all be played by 3 players, or with a one-to-part "string capella" added, or even with a capella including trombones and Cornetti or recorders, and multiple string ripienists per part. The common practice to play concerti with more then 1 string instrument per part was slowly gaining track between 1720 and 1750. Even then, Oboes and Bassoons were frequently doubled as soon as strings were more then 10 or so.

Leipzig is 400 km away from Osnabrück, not 70. Otherwise great production - thanks a lot!

i always thought joshua rifkin's one-voice-per-part idea was closer to the practice of bach and his contemporaries. rifkin's magnificat, for example, is clear and lucid; absent are the huge, glutted forces of voice and instrument which muddy the sound and tempo, resulting in a luminescent, airy performance.

Sorry.your presentation destroyed my joke. You all deserve more exposure for your fabulous, research. Any early music lover asks these questions. No-one hadany answers for me .

"Massive forces" are obviously anachronistic and inappropriate, but there remains the fact that double or triple voices sound essentially different from a group of soloists. Something about smearing out the individual timbres. Same as what happens with a string section of an orchestra. So we are forced to conclude that Bach did not want this choral effect, and wanted the "chorus" to sound like a group of soloists. I feel like there is still a piece of the puzzle missing.

Interesting and well presented, thank you. Wondering why you stuck to the cantatas - I’d love to know what Bach wanted for the B minor Mass or Matthew/ John Passions?

Thank you very much! And what is about performance practice in Renaissance period? How many singers took place in liturgy, for example?

Have gou tackled the same subject for Handel? If not, I can't wait! If you have, will someone please point me to that video?

Still on the subject of Bach cantatas, are there any sources that mention… audience participation? Considering how important congregational singing was to Luterans, and how very well known chorales were so often the basis of so many of Bach’s cantatas, is there any mention of the congregation joining in for the chorale bits?

Singing one to a part is indeed quite special, and I love it, but a well-trained section is a great thing too, and will balance better against the orchestra. Perhaps the Capella singers’ biggest skill was to perform satisfactorily with very limited rehearsal time.

Superbe

now making a hot take

Yet another Brilliant video. I look forward to each new offering. I was first introduced to Bach's music at age 8. In the last 55 years, whether performing, conducting, or merely listening to Bach's music, it has been proven to me (again and again) that there has been no greater master than he. One particular truth that has been confirmed (over and over) is that regardless of the size and quality of the musicians participating, the listener can (immediately) discern that the work being performed is (indeed) one of the Master's own. Even works which have been arranged for instruments not yet invented when Bach wrote the piece nevertheless sparkle with his genius. I suspect that until such time when mankind can find a way to transport observers back to eighteenth century Leipzig, the best that we can do is to speculate and theorize about how JSB intended and performed his works. Of all the possible ways to while away one's time, that may indeed be one of the best. Thanks so much for this incredibly interesting and thought provoking video.

Very interesting discussion. However, I have often wondered how Bach managed to have a new cantata each Sunday (other than the fact that he was a genius). In addition to just writing the score, there were parts that had to be copied out and distributed (probably by an assistant), but then a choir or vocal rehearsal, and orchestral rehearsal, a rehearsal with both. All in addition to his teaching duties. And all this done every week. Sheesh! makes me tired just to think about it.

My take is Bach's chorals sound much better with small choirs/orchestra settings ....you can really hear the polyphony and interaction between voices and instruments .....there are so many layers to Bach...plus the notion of performance we are used is no where near Bach's.

1) Reconstruct the acoustics of the Leipzig Churches. 2) Limit the size of the audience accordingly. 3) Ban professional singers, females, and those over the age of 18. (This probably automatically cuts vibrato singing to a minimum.) 4) Consider the size of the organ lofts. 5) Refrain from showy tempos. SOLI DEO GLORIA was the motto. Do all this if you desire to explore the musical experience of the time. To explore the musical substance of the music, study Bach's scores. I have been doing it for the last 60 years. For much of the clavier compositions, there is a historically correct choice of clavichord, harpsichord, or organ. Most of Bach's music sounds great even when interpreted by balalaika ensemble, accordion, or synthesizer. What does that tell you about the Idealbesetzung for the cantatas? Rifkin or Richter, YOU decide.

As thoroughly researched this is, missing is: What is the most MUSICAL approach. Historians constantly claim "authenticity" in contemporary performance based on what were clearly prosaic limitations of 1) Budget and 2) Availability of decent performers in Bach's time. Nobody really knows the truth, and that includes things like use of vibrato. The fact is that ANY contemporary performance of Bach is desirable if it is MUSICALLY competent and inspiring. Bach himself was almost infinitely flexible based on resources available and the ability of those that performed his music. We get FAR too hung up on "being authentic" and historically "accurate" while the most important thing is whether it works and sounds musical.

Barenreiter cites the (vocal) instrumentation for St Matthew's Passion as follows: Sopr. in Ripini / Soli 1 SATB, Chori 1 SATB / Soli 2 SATB, Chori 2 SATB There is no mention of Evangelist, Jesus, or any other soloist roles for the recitativos. However, for recitativos with Soli 1 singing, only Chorus 2 sings. Conversely, when Evangelista or Jesus sing together with choir, only Chori 1 sings, which makes me think that the Evangelista and Jesus were, perhaps, the Tenor and Bass from Soli 1. However, most performances today just have a group of 4 soloists singing all the recitativos (but never joining the chorales or the choruses), a separate Evangelista and Jesus, and the two choirs or multiple people per voice. (However, there is one interpretation of the Netherlands Bach Society where the Chori 2 singers also act as soloists, and Soli 1 sing also in Chori 1)

In the St John Passion, often when the Evangelist announces a chorus, the tenor entries in the chorus are delayed a little, which feels like the Evangelist was joining in. On the other hand, getting a tenor to sing the choruses, the chorales, the Evangelist and Erwäge is quite something to ask.

I am so happy that someone finally says Bach like Bach and not Ba*coughing up flegm*

Excellent video - great introduction into the mess and confusion of choir strength in Bach's Leipzig. However: how did you come up with 70km between Osnabrück and Leipzig? It's closer to 400km!

"Tutti" and "solo" markings in the sources do NOT indicate the use of ripieni (they just inform the singer whether he will sing alone or together with other voices). The same markings are often used in instrumental parts (e.g. for trumpets) which certainly were not doubled.