JJ kind of blew our minds here.. what do you all think? thumbs up if you think SVA should start a KZfaq channel 🤘

Last time I did bare shaft tuning I ended up paying child support

In my experience, broadheads can appear to fly pretty well even when bare shafts are not flying well. But every time I get a bare shaft to fly perfect, the broadheads also fly perfect. So IMO a bare shaft shows the flaws in your tune better than just broadhead tuning. I don't like paper tuning because I don't feel like I'm shooting the same shot when I'm not aiming and trying to hit something. I bare shaft tune then verify with broadheads.

Every bow shop owner I've talked to about this says the same thing, in the same arrogant I-know-better-than-anyone way and it's wrong, plain and simple. Ranch Fairy said it best - "the proof is in the penetration" - you get a bareshaft arrow to shoot perfectly straight, your broadhead flight will be all the better for it. You know he's wrong when he says "the whole purpose of what we're trying to do is get your broadhead and field point to hit in the same spot. Why does it matter where your shaft goes at that point?" That's target archery, where penetration doesn't matter. In bow hunting, if your broadhead hits the right spot, but your arrow is flying sideways, you aren't getting much penetration and you'll end up injuring and losing an animal or spend hours tracking it on a minimal blood trail. You'll be scratching your head wondering what the hell went wrong - "But it hit perfectly!"

Dan, I’ve watched endless vids on several of these topics. JJ is a one stop shop. Got ‘er done in under 14 minutes. Exactly the info I’ve needed all wrapped up without any fluff or bs. Thanks for taking the time to get this together and posted, much appreciated!

I had two out of a dozen arrows shooting consistently low. Flip them over and they shoot high. They spin true. Cut the fletching off, bare shaft tuned at 15 yards and they now hit center using the same broad head. It appears to me that it might matter.

Thank you so much that was a lot of help. I have been going to the bow shops in my city asking why my broadheads are shooting lower and no one could give me a straight answer, I finally came across your video adjusted my rest and I'm now within half of an inch of each other thank you so much

Awesome knowledge. Helps to confirm logic of what is going on when setting up bow/arrows and how to fix / confirm what is the fix.

From my experiences and I’m shooting traditional so it is a little bit different. But bareshaft tuning is to try to get the arrows to fly as near perfect as possible before adding the rudder on the back. The fletching steers the arrow more than the broadhead because of basic physics. Unless you have more weight at the tail end of your arrow which nobody does. After I group my bareshafts with my fletched shafts and have a good straight arrow in the target ill shoot my broadhead and if my aim is true then 9.9 times out of 10 my broad heads hit right with my field points.

Bare shaft tuning started in traditional archery It will also tell you the spine of your arrow before even putting a broad head on if your arrows improperly spined with the field point it's still not gonna work with broadhead there are a programs to give you a dood idea on spine of your arrows bare shaft helps verify that

For what its worth I have been in this stuff for a bit and there is a lot of good perspectives and suggestion here. If you are looking for be negative you will find it. Thank you for taking the time to post this video it will help many people have a better understanding of what steps they can take to make thing the best they can be.

Good info. I think the point of bare shaft tuning is that it helps tune the bow correctly without potentially losing or damaging expensive broadheads.

Thanks for all the great videos and insight!

Yes they should have there own channel and yeah that's awesome I like seeing the break down and it helps me eliminate things from my own process and make it simpler

Best tunning video ive watched. And ive seen plenty. Will share this for sure. Thanks great job. And thorough

Seriously going to watch this again. The knowledge is incredible.

Loved this info. As a newer bow hunter I didn't realize all that goes into an arrow and tuning. Thanks for the video!

Great video Josh ! I've been shooting bows for 53 years and never stop learning or teaching.

Interesting vid, not that I disagree with all of that but I never, ever move my rest off center-shot. If it’s not in tune make the appropriate bow adjustment, top hat or yoke twist. I personally shoot Victory VAPs which mark their spine BUT I still verify every single bare shaft by shooting through paper. The reason is simple, not all bows like the spine in the same spot, for instance my RX-1 likes the spine at the 9 o’clock position and my SR6 likes it directly on top at 12 o’clock. So I bareshaft/nock tune to ensure my arrows are all built the same. It takes me maybe 15 minutes to do a dozen BUT my bows are always in tune because my garage is basically a bow shop and I own all of the necessary equipment. If you truly wanna be a good archer, build your own arrows, tune your own bows! You’ll learn a lot! I’ve never had a (only only shoot 2, Exodux and Slick Trick) broadhead not shoot like my fieldtips.

Probably some of the Best tuning tips I've ever heard! Man he is a Archery Encyclopedia!! He definitely needs a KZfaq channel!! Awesome Intel, Keep up the great work guys!! O yea I 4got to mention too that out of all my years of being a bow tech I've never once had to Bareshaft to tune an Arrow!!

So much juice, will have to see it again. Thanks Dan and Josh.

I've just bought a new bunch of shafts and was thinking about the daunting task of nock tuning them all (I have never did it before). Not now!! Awesome vid, makes so much sence. Keep them coming! And yes SVA should def start a no bullshit KZfaq channel!

Wow! Awesome stuff. Really appreciate the in-depth on broad head tuning!

You guys should check out The Ranch Fairy KZfaq channel. He has some great videos on the subject of bare shaft tuning.

Thanks for this video, this is pure gold for a beginner like myself, love that you're helping others to learn

Agree agree agree but, I’m knew and always learning. This a a great straight forward informative video. Thanks

I gave up paper tuning with a fletched arrow a looonnggg time ago. As mentioned, I just compensate for the loss of weight due to the vanes not being there. I do it because a bareshaft doesn't lie. Ever. That just lets me focus on my centershot and yoke (provided you have one). I've had zero problems in achieving bullet holes out to 8-10 yards (doing it in the basement). JJ is 200% correct. All your tuning is for naught if you don't pay HUGE attention to the shaft-insert-broadhead fit. If it doesn't spin like a top with no wobble ..... forget it. And even then it's not an absolute guarantee. Many do not realize, your $1,500 bow is being defeated by a $0.20 insert because it wasn't tapped straight. I've wound up making each hunting arrow.......and I will go through 20-30 inserts to find the right arrow/broadhead match.....and THEN glue it up. BTW a really tight fitting $0.10 nock can be just as damaging.....learned that one the hard way. Results? The worst year I had was broadheads were hitting 1" left of field points at 30 yards. Most years there is no neglible difference between the two. Great knowledge being shared in the video, kudos!

Great video Dan and MFJJ! This one is a keeper!

Ranch Fairy. That’s all I’m going to say.

So true JJ. I start with my bow which is true @ 58 pounds. My results tell me I'm getting good arrow flight but need to turn my 65 lb. bow up about 5 lbs. I shoot bare shafts with a field point to give me my nock tuning spine. I mark the top of the nock with a sharpie. Then I fletch, usually 6 out of 12 so I can proceed & focus w/o having the burden of having to do it with 12 shafts which tends to take the fun out of it. Usually the papertune goes very fast so I walk back & shoot these 6 arrows @ 20 & 30 yards. Then b4 I mount broadheads on them I shoot the field points from above onto 3D targets. The last round I use the target as a backstop so I can shoot twigs hanging down between my position in the 🌳 & the target. I'm shooting a 20% FOC so it actually helps with another step in the process which comes in handy in a hunting scenario. Then I shoot broadheads into my new SEVR targets which r very handy also during the bareshaft process.

Well dang that made a ton of sense.

That was great info to share!! SVA definitely needs a channel

super informative and timely. Thanks again. What about feathers JJ??

Awesome video very informative. Saw a 150 spine arrow available the other day, not for me but surprised to see it.

Great stuff, the demos on the target really help! Once again top notch!!

Perfect! Awesome video. This is exactly the stuff needed to get dialed in this September.

Curious as to when to accept the grouping. With all of the variables like grip, facial pressure, etc.. what would you say is an acceptable grouping distance? 1/2" @ 20 yards? Of course making sure you shoot multiple groups to ensure the same groups.

Glad I watched this I’ve been losing my mind trying to bareshaft tune I’ve given up. Constant nock low tear no matter what. I’ve had a hell of a time trying to tune my VXR 28 and this damn thing will not tune. I’ve tried everything spent countless hours in the shop. Just going to fletch all my arrows and broadhead tune. If I can’t get this thing to tune going to gravel tune this damn bow.

I agree. Put a wrap on the shaft or shoot feathers to negate FOC differences so you can learn a LOT from shooting bare shafts. Learn what? How straight your arrows want to fly off the bow, which directly reflects how close broadheads and field points will impact.

Great video ! Thanks guys!

Like the video guys! There are more ways than one to kill elk 😉. I agree with almost everything stated except the left/right issues due to spine. Yes, you can change your poundage and make the arrow hit left or right, but, you can also change that impact by moving your cam lean. This is made extremely easy with Elite’s SET technology. Also, bareshaft tuning is HUGE for getting more than one arrow to impact the same at distance. If short range is your game then there is no need to bare shaft tune each arrow. But for ultimate accuracy (and yes I am a hunter and a target shooter that shoots long range) bare shaft tuning each arrow is extremely important to have a complete quiver full of arrows that impact equally. But there is no doubt you are laying down some good info! Great job!

I like the method you use, seems quick easy and effective. I think some of the comments may be confusing this as a nock or arrow tuning video. Do you guys mess with nock tuning your arrows at all?

This information is golden

This video just blew my mind I’m gonna have to watch a few more times to remember all this archery school work session thank you gentlemen

Just shot my broadheads yesterday and was getting a consistent 2" broadhead right. Definitely thought i would be over spined shooting 75 lbs 27"dl. Easton Axis 260 with 210 grain up front and 580 grain taw. Carbon to carbon its 28". I guess im going to have to shorten them up to see if it tightens up any since from what he said i was under spined. AWESOME VIDEO!

This all makes a lot of sense. Thank you for putting this info out. A question, does this principle apply to the stick bow?

Very good info. Thank you

Bare shaft tuning matters because it’s the lowest common denominator, and it will determine the angle at target impact. The angle can be different even if both tips are hitting the same point. Why is this important? 1) if you’re arrows are impacting on axis (centreline of the arrow) you will protect your arrow and broad heads, reducing wear on the edge and or likelihood of breaking equipment when impacting bone. 2) if the arrows are impacting on axis, the broad head will cut symmetrically as it’s designed, which will increase penetration and therefore lethality of the shot which all hunters should aspire to. 3) whether it’s tangible or not, the arrow that flies straight will be flying faster, as it will not experience as much energy loss at release and in flight. Furthermore, you tune for perfect conditions. In the outdoors, variables such as wind etc will amplify any fine tuning issues 4) fletchings were used back in the day BECAUSE arrow rests, plungers etc etc didn’t exist. They were necessary to counteract the aerodynamic forces imparted by the broad heads. Now we understand that, we can use fletchings (in acknowledgment of FOC) to refine flight rather than macro correct it.

JJ - is 15yds the ideal distance for this testing? Should the target be as close to level with my rest as possible, or lower than my rest height, like you’re doing with the target on the stool?

Thanks for the video very helpful

After watching 20 videos on tuning your bow… this is by far the best video. MFJJ is spot on with whatever he is saying. So easy to follow along. Thanks guys

Great info 👍🏻

Interesting video. One of the most importent things is said @ the end of the video. Unless you are a shooting machine, execute every shot sequence multiple times with the same arrows. So verifying differences between the arrows before making adjustments to your setup. Otherwise you will be chasing ghost.

I want to bring my broadhead impact up slightly. I was thinking of moving my rest up, but now you’ve got me thinking cams. So how would I adjust the cams? Add a twist to the bottom cam?

So if your broad head wobbled which in his situation it did not, how do you fix that? Do you need to square up the cuts on the arrow? What if your arrow is already cut to length? Thank you

I agree a bareshaft and broadhead will impact in the same or very similar spot. One great reason not to ignore the bareshaft, they don't eat up expensive targets like fixed blades do. Do 99% of the work with a bareshaft then double check with a fixed blade to save $$$

I had this same question today. Someone sent me this video. After spending so much time with bareshaft tuning I realized I still had to tune my broadheads. Although Bh tuning wasn’t as tedious. Still I wondered why bare shaft if my end goal is the broad head which I’m still going to tune. I had my cousin shooting his Bh and I made adjustments to group them with his field points. Then I had him shoot a bs and that impacted perfectly. So now I honestly feel bs is a waste of time. Now I do like bs shooting mainly to get my nock in the best position before I fletch them. So either way I’ll probably still keep doing it.

Best common sense tuning video out there, great job.

I like those AAE Max Stealth vanes but boy are they HEAVY. Trying some Q2i's now. Nice video !

How much do you suggest shorting the arrow to stiffen up slightly. 1/4"?

Good information’👍🏾🏹

What arrow stops (targets) are you using in the shop on this video , arrow targets look modular and great for a basement setup in the house.

This was very detailed and Josh covered a ton. What're your thoughts on nock tuning and French tuning? It seems like you'd still want to nock tune those fliers that won't quite group.

My problem is varying vertical impact points.. Any suggestions?.. 20,30 and 40 yrds impact is a good vertical line on walk back tuning.. All with field points..

so instead of bareshaft tuning (with a field point), you should just do all the same things but shooting a broadhead? I enjoyed doing the bareshaft tuning, and it helped me figure out I was torquing my bow, which I got fixed. The big plus for me, is that I know the arrows are coming off the bow properly, and are entering the target (or animal) as efficiently as possible. But then again, I'm also shooting adult arrows and single bevels, so what do I know?

Hell yes SVA should start a KZfaq channel, even if it’s just filming bow setups or shop life.

WE GOT 15k!!!!!!!!!!! Heck yeah!!!!! Great job guys!!!

I’ve always thought the bare shaft was BS. Seems tuning the bow to bullet holes with the center shot within manufacturers spec, then making sure the Broadhead was spinning perfectly, was all that was needed to get broadheads to fly with field points out to about 60-70 yards. GREAT info in here about the relation of spine to left and right hits as well as the cam timing and nock point. Very well done.

This is the way I've been tuning for more than 20 years hasn't let me down yet. Can't believe the comments are so positive with all the people that throw a big hoopla about bare shaft tuning. I've watched friends of mine just kicking themselves trying to bare shaft tune and scratching their heads and getting ticked off during the process. Then I step up and tune my way and they just get even more mad as I'm laughing. Great info here. Josh would kill it if he had his own KZfaq channel. Would probably irritate a few just from being real.

Is that broadhead tuning rest adjustment correct? BH impacts right move rest left? I believe when a bh tipped arrow comes of the bow nock left it will point the bh in the opposite direction, to the right. Where the fixed blade “wings” will catch air and they will plane in that direction. Moving your rest to the right (to the bh) will correct the nock left bow exit causing the bh to fly straighter, impacting with your FP. Coincidentally those are the same adjustments for bare shaft tuning. Hmm. The rest adjustment is not one of those things where it depends on the person or the bow. ‘Whatever works for you’ does not apply. It’s physics and it’s consistent.

cant wait to build my own arrows. gonna be interesting for my first time lol

Should you do a dynamic spine test bare shaft? Before fletching

I dont use fixed blade broadheads. I use a lead weight in the back to mimic the weight of the fletxhings down to .1 of a grain. Then i bareshaft tune and it works every single time.

I wish I found this video before my deer season began last week!!!

In my case I broke a fletch with the field point and the biggest separation was 1/4” higher. I used Annihilator 100 grain broadheads. Edit: Congrats on 15K guys 👍🏻

The biggest reason I still bareshaft tune is that from my testing, once my bows(this is with multiple bows from different manufacturers) are bareshaft tuned, I have more options for fixed blades that I can just screw on and more often than not, that head will fly. On top of that, you have your rest movements backward, you always chase your broadhead/bareshaft with the rest. Meaning, if your broadhead is left of field points, move the rest to the left.

So question I have about my bow is, I just had the timing adjusted. My broadheads are hitting 10 yards low (my 30 pin is on at 20). I can't move my rest up any more as the top bar is making contact with the cable guard so it is maxed out as far up as it can go. How do you suggest I correct this?

There are many ways to tune a bow. If you get a bare shaft to hit with s fletched, you will be very close when you screw that fixed broad head on. You are recommending shooting fletched thru paper to get it close, both methods require actually shooting broad heads at long distance. Some broad heads will also hit exactly in the same place, others might need a very small tweek to get them perfect. You have not discovered anything new, all experienced tuners know this. The real problem with bare shaft tuning is it takes an experienced archer with very good form, where a fixed head with generous fletching is more forgiving than a bare shaft. As for the weight on the back, you will find that a bare shaft without the fletching weight will hit 1/4" to 3/8" above the fletched, it actually has more to do with drag than weight. You do not need to waste time shooting through paper, it is the beginning step that some people use, but a good hole with a fletched arrow means that you are close, but the fletches are correcting the flight before it goes through paper masking exactly what is going on. I have found that spine consistency from arrow to arrow should be corrected by clocking all your arrows (bare shafts) prior to fletching for maximum accuracy. So, there is a lot of good reasons to shoot bare shafts. Another one that I use every day is to practice with bare shafts to work on consistent form. When you can shoot a 300 with bare shafts, your form is good. You may use any method you like, but you are doing a disservice to archers telling then that there are no good reasons to shoot bare shafts.

Couldn't agree more!!!!!!

Ty for keeping the tech talk real and very understandable! As mentioned previous, the "Ranch Fairy" has some interesting info. His "Adult Arrow" concept works for certain applications, like pigs or whitetails hunted from a treestand where you will most likely get a chance to range the deer/pig. Elk hUK nting from the ground is an entirely dofferent scenario and as s such, flat trajectory of arrows becomes really important, thus "Adult arrows" are not best usdd in the Elk application. As humans, we all want a "fix all" or "works best 4 everything" solution, but in reality, individual solutions snd applications work best for each individual scenario. For where Dan n Josh n I are from, the "Western" style of archery hunting is the norm. Thus, a flat shooting, hard hitting arrow os what I want. IF I somehow mis guess yardage by 5 yards, I want my arrows inside an acceptable grouping so it is still a kill shot, not a sounding shot. Finding the balance is what is most important to me so Im consistently I'm n the kill zone! Thx Elk shape guys and "MFJJ"- (M.F. stands for Master Fletcher) I think....... or was it "Mandingo Fantastico"? I cant remember- regardless that MoFo knows his Archery stuff and is ALWAYS Awesome to work with.

All I’m going to say is Ranch Fairy, Ashby bow hunting foundation, check it out. If it doesn’t make you question your current opinion then you weren’t paying attention.

Would never let this guy touch my bow! Bareshaft tuning is the only way to guarantee results.

It’s not about where they hit, it’s the quality of the flight that counts. If the broadheads and field points are hitting the same spot but flying like crap then it’s not right.

Awesome video, you really no your stuff! I would like to say though. I agree you dont necessarily need to bareshaft tune. As you said bareshafts will typically hit where broadheads would go. But you didnt account for the fact that braodheads tear the crap out of your targets. That is why i bareshaft/nock tune. Then when im all done with a set of arrows i just shoot each one with a broadhead and ive never had an issue. Just a though. Keep the videos coming always look forward to the ones with josh in them

Ya, he said it himself “broadheads fly where bareshafts go” stick with bareshaft tuning it WILL work! If you are getting inconsistent results go back to the bareshaft or you have a bad arrow or broadhead. Shoot the best flying arrows and critters.

I'm impressed with the sheer volume of keyboard archery professionals weighing in on your video JJ. Maybe they should open their own bow shops and do the testing with literally hundreds of bows each year since (I think you said your were a shop rat at age 12?) they were old enough to work... like you and many other professionals operating shops... For the guys tagging RF Troy in the comments, my dad was an actual NASA engineer and we did the kE, momentum, some dynamics, front-of-center, energy loss over time and distance, etc tests 25 years ago that RF is doing now, and I've continued to do those tests since on an annual basis.

Always great mind bombs....

Buenos días!!!! Hacéis un trabajo brutal compartiendo vuestro saber. Pero muy ha gente de la que os sigue, solo lo hacemos por las imágenes y es una pena no entender todo lo que habláis. Aquí desde España te seguimos mucha gente y nos gustaría bien hiciésemos algún vídeo que otro en español o se pudiese traducir en subtítulos. Muchas gracias!!! Saludos!!!!!! Y buena caza!!!!!!!

I first stated with getting my F.O.C between 12-19%. Then I insert tune with a broadhead, then bare shaft each arrow/nock tune. After that it dont matter what fixed blade or what distance. My broadheads hit where my field points do. Also got ride of the Microdiameter arrows. As long as the arrow is less that 5% of the diameter of the broadhead feral. Anything less than that doesn't have any more penetration.

Good stuff

I am at my whits end trying to bare shaft paper tune my bow I have done everything I can do without a bow press. I thought my cam timing may be out of wack and need a cable turn or something so I took my bow to a local bow shop and they blamed my grip and cause my bow was in center shot. I don't believe its my grip because I am getting a consistent inch and a half left tear. Any advice? Just trying to get good fixed blade broadhead flight. Triax 30" draw length 70 lbs Easton Axis 300 spine w/ 75 grain outsert and 100 grain feild point.

Damn this video is underrated, best informational video! Keep up the great work.

Awesome info. So many " hunter?" have no clue as to what you are explaining. Especially the ones that buy Walmart arrows at whatever length and then screw on heads and call it good. I would hopeevery new bow hunter could see this and other arrow instruction videos. 👍👍

use a bare shaft when you paper tune. When I get a perfect bullet hole in the paper. I noticed my bow is faster and quieter. Then you go out and sight it in on a Target with a fletched arrow.

the thing i never got about trying to get them both to hit the same spot is that if you change one thing on your bow it should have an effect that is equal to both the broadhead and the field point. you might get them to align for a few yards, but eventually they will be off. i only worry about 20 to 30 yards. trying to figure this out to get out past 50 but then there is always the question about form.

So, if a bare shaft tuned arrow hit the same place when they are “straight”, it would seem that bare shaft tuning would at the very least, would be a great first step before finishing with broadheads.

Move the field point toward the broadhead, not broadhead toward field point.

LIKE PAPER TUNING WOULD YOU CLEAN UP THE VERTICAL....THEN ADDRESS THE LATERAL...OR?

“I thought you had something creative” lol 😂

Now I'm really confused I just bought 250s because my broad heads were hitting left of my field points and I absolutely know I'm under spine shooting 350 out of a 70lb single cam with a 30" draw