That's because Bart tells her which questions to ask 😂

@@noeldown1952 ok.

Not all, I think. He says where he wants it to go, and she asks that plus her own scholarly questions.

32:08

I love how she never interrupts too.

changing your mind after knowing more facts is not dishonesty... it is common sense

Try explaining any archaeological finding counter to the Bible or debunk the authenticity of old Christian relics and they will just get aggressive.

@@jhake67 It's called "learning". ; )

It's what happens if people only learn to think in absolutes.

@@Jackal_El_Lobo34 Not even counter to the Bible. Counter to their interpretation. They don't let the Bible speak for itself; they jam their interpretation into it. The Bible has a lot of value if you let it breathe.

The thief is a symbol of the winter season. Winter robs the rich (summer season of crop growth) and shares with the poor (winter season of hunger). See story of Zeus and Hermes visiting Philemon and Baucis.

The Romans respected the Jewish request for bodies to be taken down and buried.

THE RESURRECTION. , The Savior was now (winter) deposited in his tomb. As the Sabbath (winter) was nearing its end, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the sepulchre, bringing sweet spices (the spring flowers) with them. They found the stone rolled away, i.e., it was spring. Mary ran to Peter (Aries) and told him the Savior's body wasn't in the tomb (winter). Peter, of course, was badly scared, and ran off with another disciple (Pisces) but got outrun, the last passing the Sun first. However, both found the “linen clothes” = the Earth. All then went home, i.e., the two sets of constellations (winter and summer) came into position at the spring equinox. Meanwhile “the vail of the temple (intereaspansum templi = the plane of the solstices) was rent (scissum est = was divided) from the top to the bottom, and the earth did quake (mota est = was moved, i.e., over the equinoctial line); and the rocks were rent” by the dissolving frosts. The graves were opened, i.e., the winter was past, and “many saints” (summer constellations) which slept (in the dark hemisphere) arose, and appeared to many, i.e., to such as understood the riddle. Mary stood without, at the sepulchre,” weeping (the latter rain); and as she wept, she stooped down (went below the equator), and, looking, saw two angels in white (the light of spring), sitting, one (Aries) at the head, and the other (Pisces) at the feet (see your almanac), where the body of Jesus had lain. “Why weepest thou?” said the angels. Because, said Mary, I cannot find my Lord. Being a night constellation, she couldn't see the Sun. Turning back just then (Lot's wife looked back), she saw Jesus standing, but didn't know him. He addressed her, when, turning again, she knew him (but didn't see him), and exclaimed Rabboni (My great one). Jesus said, “touch me not;” for I am not ascended to my Father (the Holy Ghost). The Sun and Virgo don’t come in conjunction until the end of the summer. Hence in the spring Jesus said to her: “touch me not;” “but go and tell my brethren that I ascend unto my father, and your Father; and to my God and your God” (Sun entered Aries). * Why did Mary stand without the sepulchre? Because, being a summer constellation, she was obliged to share the lot of God, or Aries, her leader. Night or day, winter or Summer, she is always with the Lord, though she is not always able to see him. Hence the mutual love each bore the other. Of all this Mary duly informed the disciples. On the evening of the first day (month) of the week (the seven summer months), Jesus stood in the midst, i.e., at the spring equinox, and said: - “Peace be unto you,” i.e., let summer come. The disciples were glad to see their Lord (the summer Sun). So, Jesus repeated: - “Peace be unto you.” He then breathed on them, and said: - “Receive ye the Holy Ghost” = the summer wind. This Holy Ghost, by the way, was a terrible fellow. Of him it is said: - “Whosoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him; neither in this world (year), nor in the world (year) to come.” “All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven, but this against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.”-Mat. 12: 31, 32. Why, Christian? Tell me why? This has been the great stumbling block to both Christians, and Anti-Christians; none being able to resolve it. The Holy Ghost is the summer wind. Now, if you don’t get in and raise a crop during summer, you commit a sin against the Holy Ghost, which will not be forgiven during this year or any subsequent one. “Time once past never returns.” All right. After these things, i.e., after the summer was past, Jesus showed himself to his disciples at the sea of Tiberias. Here, with Simon Peter and others, he entered a ship (Noah's ark). This was at night (winter). During “that night they caught nothing.” In the morning (spring), Jesus stood on the shore; but his disciples didn’t as yet know him-the time being between winter and summer. But Jesus asked: - “Have ye any meat?” No; * answered they. “Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find.” They were in luck; for, Simon Peter drew the net, and caught 153 big fishes and didn’t break his net, i.e., the year was completed and whole. Simon (Pisces) denoted the fishing season, and the 153 big fishes doubtless referred to the number of days in the winter months just past, counting in February at 29 days and adding one extreme as was customary. * At the end of winter, savages usually lacked food.

Dr.Tabor has mentioned that Joseph had to take Jesus' body from the tomb and bury him before Passover, since that was a thing for them at the time, as well.

@@roninofstag8245 The "tomb" will remain empty until the autumn equinox. This is when Jesus will be crucified in Egypt. Aka the Sun's "fall" into the underworld. He will remain in this "tomb" until the spring equinox where he will again be crucified as part of the pass over celebration.

@@protochrisdelusional cult.

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/b5-Dd62VybOap40.htmlsi=wanJSH5TjCRCZv5R

I just went and read that passage and this idea makes a lot of sense. The new tomb clearly wasn't intended for Jesus so there's no way they would have left him there once they could move him. I still have a lot of skepticism about this Joseph of Arimathea character, but assuming somehow someone was able to get Jesus' body that same day, this explanation makes sense to me.

@getasimbe IIt made a lot of sense to me as well. I had never heard anyone speak of those verses or even read them myself in all my years of Christianity. I always thought it was strange that Mary, or the group of ladies would be going back to mess around with the body again after 3 days of decomposing but if they didn't really have time to complete full burial rituals bc of the time crunch, that return with spices 3 days later starts to become more reasonable. James is really the only historian that I have ever heard speculate on what happened to the body if it was not resurrected. Seems to be a topic that nobody wants to speculate on. I linked the full video in the earlier comment, but it was deleted I guess. Another interesting point he made was that Jesus was crucified on Thursday before Passover Friday. I've always heard it was Friday bc the Bible talks about the Sabbath being the next day, but that doesn't give you the "3 days" to an empty tomb on Sunday morning. I've asked about that math discrepency many times, and everyone just counts Friday as one of the days, which never made sense to me. James shows that there was the Passover Sabbath followed by the weekly Sabbath.

He hasnt presented any good evidence for that. He also picks and chooses which part of the Gospels are true depending on whether they support his various theories. He typically argues the earliest text is the most reliable, yet he's quoting John, the last Gospel to be written.

@PC-vg8vn The text says that because the Sabbath was neigh at hand, Jesus was placed in the tomb that was close by. Most historians agree that it was common that family tombs be on their own property. James doesn't think it would be likely that Jesus would have been permanently buried in a public forum such as that. That with the text indicating that the reason he was put therr was due to the timing seems plausible. For the decision of where Jesus body to be permanently laid to be made over a timeframe seems hasty and capricious. One would think that his people would have had a better plan than that, in my opinion. I enjoy James and Bart's opinions on things, though they differ often.

Good old bribery. Don't underestimate it.

But very unlikely. There is litterally no historic record of this man outside the gospels! Furthermore Arimathea may be.. some small town/village of literally no account. It is most likely that he was a literary invention.

Tiberius was Emperor from 14-37. In 26 he became a depressed recluse. He left Rome in the hands of Sejanus. Sejanus put his supporters in positions of power so he could take over as emperor. Pilate was appointed by Sejanus. Tiberius figured out what was going down and had Sejanus executed for treason in 31AD. Then Tiberius went after Sejanus’ appointed supporters. I’m sure Pilate was on edge out of self preservation at the time. He had a history of poorly handling the Jewish leaders. Same day burial isn’t a Christian rule. It was the Jewish leaders rule. I doubt Pilate was all that concerned with Jesus’ group. Rome’s ruthlessness was to keep the Jewish leaders in line. Rome appointed the highest Jewish leader. Rome also needed them to produce wealth for them. Like Walking Dead’s Negan. Early Christian Greek writers don’t need to have Jesus buried the same day for theology reasons. And I’m sure they knew Roman crucifixion practices. Josephus said it was common. Nothing supernatural going on here. multiple sources of the practice. I’m just practicing the same critical thinking skills I’ve learned from Dr E’s other videos.

@@theobolt250 The entire bible is a literary invention.

@@harveywabbit9541 and like all great works of literature, it contains deep truths and meta-truths.

It's hard to imagine that any church can be any worse than the SBC.

THAT is a very interesting empty tomb explanation, even though the aftermath of that is still more myth than reality. Very good. I had not put those two bits together before!

I like Tabor but his temporary tomb burial seems even more speculative than the explanation that the empty tomb narrative is a fiction.

I like that explanation but I think the simple answer is probably what actually happened.

I think, that as soon as the sun set on Saturday, Joseph of Arimathea sent his serfs to dump Jesus body in the common pit, because his tomb was for him and his family.

I love the Rabbi. He is a scream. I will look for that episode. Perhaps Mark wasn't a Jew at all since he was ignorant of such Jewish practices and had a Roman name. As for Tabor, I don't have a clue whether or not he is a believer. I suspect not. I frankly believe that Jesus was a flimflammer if for no other reason than that he is not exactly helping us out as we press for Armageddon. Something weird about praising a poor woman for giving her last cent to whom? Why does God or the son of God need money at all?

The sun dies at the autumn equinox/west (evening) and rises from the dead at the spring equinox/east (morning)..

The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus Book by Gary Habermas and Michael R. Licona

I kind of wonder about that. Would any amount of evidence still not be convincing? Like, if instead of a handful of believers and the slow growth of a new religion with texts written decades after the fact, we had mass conversions on the spot in Jerusalem of 10s of thousands who had seen a dead man rise up? Hundreds of documents from prominent Jewish and Roman eyewitnesses who hadn't believed while he was alive. Obviously, that's not what we have, but it would certainly be far more convincing.

@@jeffmacdonald9863 that is interesting. Along those lines, we don't really know how popular the movement was amongst Jews, while Acts wants us to think there are thousands. Alternately, while historically Christianity really takes root among gentiles, even in the large cities that Paul focuses his efforts on, it seems he is writing to handfuls of people meeting in people's houses. Another intriguing question: why would Paul's message of the promised Jewish Messiah, exempting people from the law of Moses, have any appeal to people who had no clue about these things?

you should read 'How God Became Jesus'.

@@PC-vg8vn The Lord, God, who is a Sun and a Shield, works in mysterious ways.

That's the part I hate! I don't give a flying you-know-what about their personal lives!

@@jamesmccarthy3198 fortunately, YT features a fast forward button for folks who don’t like that. Normally I’m like you with this opinion but for some reason I really like the small talk on these videos. I like getting to know people, though, so that’s probably why.

She's looking nice. Alive and vibrant!

That's a lot of speculation with no grounds. Pilate wanted to free Jesus, and none of the Pharisees nor Saduccess said or showed any desire to arrest any of the disciples. That was clear when Peter cut off the ear upon Jesus' arrest. They point out that Peter denies him- but look at all the witnesses to his cutting of the ear. Why didn't they grab him right there and then? They were specifically after Jesus and Jesus alone. If you read the texts, they said "it's better that one man die than a whole nation". Now what that means, I don't know. But that book is a rabbit hole that goes far beyond the simple church narrative.

The only disciple who was at the crucifixion was John, the beloved disciple. Jesus handed the care of Mary over to him before He died. I agree that the other disciples probably fled or went into hiding to prevent being arrested as part of Jesus' insurrection plot. John 19:39-42 say that Joseph of Arimathea claimed the body & placed it in the tomb. Nicodemus helped him to prepare the body, by wrapping it in clean linen and anointing it with 75 lbs of spices. This means there was no disciples there to witness any events after Jesus death, until he appeared to them 3 days later.

Sounds like something you would do.

Very familiar, because Bart talks about it in the video.

Around the 27 minute mark of the video Bart addresses this very thing. Try listening to the talk, then raise a question.

Right, but Josephus wasn't born when Jesus died

Even his explanation (37:30) for why most scholars sleepwalk into accepting the consensus mirrors exactly the reasons (which Dr Ehrman rejects) that scholars sleepwalk into the consensus on the hypothesis that Jesus was entirely mythical. It's bizarre to see this cognitive dissonance so openly displayed.

What is your best guess as to who first made up the Jesus myth?

I’ve heard plenty of “new atheists” mock and belittle Dr. Ehrman. I’ve never seen him be disrespectful in any debate, nor in any of his writings. He always attacks the arguments not the person making them as does any good scholar. Btw, I’m an “old atheist”. I was an atheist before it got trendy. I’m more than willing to believe that there never a Jesus and in fact, before reading Ehrman’s work that’s what I believed. But saying an historical Jesus existed in no way means you support that he walked on water or rose from the dead. Anymore than saying you believe Alexander the Great existed means his father was Zeus as is stated by Plutarch, one of the most reliable scholars from Ancient Greece.

@@michaeldebellis4202 I agree.

@@michaeldebellis4202 so what? I'm not saying that it's the same thing to question miracles as it is to question whether someone was fictional. Also, as for being disrespectful, Dr Ehrman may have MANNERS, but he is frequently disrespectful towards those who want to discuss the hypothesis that Jesus didn't exist in history. He was borderline in his debate with Robert Price some years ago, however what I'm really talking about is the offhand way he always answers questions about Jesus mythicism in interviews, laughing at it like it's idiotic, and dismissing it by claiming that "nobody in academia says that". By saying this, he demotes any scholar who entertains this hypothesis with one sentence, while laughing. Not very respectful. He also ignores the fact that scholars either don't speak about this issue because their job would be at risk, or if they do talk about it, that's the reason they can't get a secure job with a university, and they have to work freelance. So no, manners and decorum are not respect. And that's all Dr Ehrman ever has to offer, by the way. He never addresses the hypothesis directly, he doesn't talk about the evidence, he just laughs at people who raise this, and he dismisses them with appeals to consensus and authority, and ad hominems. That's why I found this section so ironic this week, to hear him suddenly on the other side of a hypothesis, defending himself against the exact same arguments that he himself makes on another, equally valid, topic.

Even as a devout believer and philosopher, I love the words of a good agnostic :).

We also have the Pagan/Christian Trinity. The origin of the Trinity is obvious to anyone who will observe the daily manifestations of the sun. This orb, being the symbol of all Light, has three distinct phases: rising, midday, and setting. The philosophers therefore divided the life of all things into three distinct parts: growth, maturity, and decay. Between the twilight of dawn and the twilight of evening is the high noon of resplendent glory. God the Father, the Creator of the world, is symbolized by the dawn. His color is blue, because the sun rising in the morning is veiled in blue mist. God the Son he Illuminating One sent to bear witness of His Father before all the worlds, is the celestial globe at noonday, radiant and magnificent, the maned Lion of Judah, the Golden-haired Savior of the World. Yellow is His color and His power is without end. God the Holy Ghost is the sunset phase, when the orb of day, robed in flaming red, rests for a moment upon the horizon line and then vanishes into the darkness of the night to wandering the lower worlds and later rise again triumphant from the embrace of darkness. The Holy Spirit of night/winter is symboled by Jonah aka spelled IUno = Juno (Air) and her favorite birdie, is the Dove. The dove being a migratory birdie, like the Sun, goes south for the winter and north for the summer. She will return in the spring, bringing warm air.

THE RESURRECTION. , The Savior was now (winter) deposited in his tomb. As the Sabbath (winter) was nearing its end, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the sepulchre, bringing sweet spices (the spring flowers) with them. They found the stone rolled away, i.e., it was spring. Mary ran to Peter (Aries) and told him the Savior's body wasn't in the tomb (winter). Peter, of course, was badly scared, and ran off with another disciple (Pisces) but got outrun, the last passing the Sun first. However, both found the “linen clothes” = the Earth. All then went home, i.e., the two sets of constellations (winter and summer) came into position at the spring equinox. Meanwhile “the vail of the temple (intereaspansum templi = the plane of the solstices) was rent (scissum est = was divided) from the top to the bottom, and the earth did quake (mota est = was moved, i.e., over the equinoctial line); and the rocks were rent” by the dissolving frosts. The graves were opened, i.e., the winter was past, and “many saints” (summer constellations) which slept (in the dark hemisphere) arose, and appeared to many, i.e., to such as understood the riddle. Mary stood without, at the sepulchre,” weeping (the latter rain); and as she wept, she stooped down (went below the equator), and, looking, saw two angels in white (the light of spring), sitting, one (Aries) at the head, and the other (Pisces) at the feet (see your almanac), where the body of Jesus had lain. “Why weepest thou?” said the angels. Because, said Mary, I cannot find my Lord. Being a night constellation, she couldn't see the Sun. Turning back just then (Lot's wife looked back), she saw Jesus standing, but didn't know him. He addressed her, when, turning again, she knew him (but didn't see him), and exclaimed Rabboni (My great one). Jesus said, “touch me not;” for I am not ascended to my Father (the Holy Ghost). The Sun and Virgo don’t come in conjunction until the end of the summer. Hence in the spring Jesus said to her: “touch me not;” “but go and tell my brethren that I ascend unto my father, and your Father; and to my God and your God” (Sun entered Aries). * Why did Mary stand without the sepulchre? Because, being a summer constellation, she was obliged to share the lot of God, or Aries, her leader. Night or day, winter or Summer, she is always with the Lord, though she is not always able to see him. Hence the mutual love each bore the other. Of all this Mary duly informed the disciples. On the evening of the first day (month) of the week (the seven summer months), Jesus stood in the midst, i.e., at the spring equinox, and said: - “Peace be unto you,” i.e., let summer come. The disciples were glad to see their Lord (the summer Sun). So, Jesus repeated: - “Peace be unto you.” He then breathed on them, and said: - “Receive ye the Holy Ghost” = the summer wind. This Holy Ghost, by the way, was a terrible fellow. Of him it is said: - “Whosoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him; neither in this world (year), nor in the world (year) to come.” “All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven, but this against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.”-Mat. 12: 31, 32. Why, Christian? Tell me why? This has been the great stumbling block to both Christians, and Anti-Christians; none being able to resolve it. The Holy Ghost is the summer wind. Now, if you don’t get in and raise a crop during summer, you commit a sin against the Holy Ghost, which will not be forgiven during this year or any subsequent one. “Time once past never returns.” All right. After these things, i.e., after the summer was past, Jesus showed himself to his disciples at the sea of Tiberias. Here, with Simon Peter and others, he entered a ship (Noah's ark). This was at night (winter). During “that night they caught nothing.” In the morning (spring), Jesus stood on the shore; but his disciples didn’t as yet know him-the time being between winter and summer. But Jesus asked: - “Have ye any meat?” No; * answered they. “Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find.” They were in luck; for, Simon Peter drew the net, and caught 153 big fishes and didn’t break his net, i.e., the year was completed and whole. Simon (Pisces) denoted the fishing season, and the 153 big fishes doubtless referred to the number of days in the winter months just past, counting in February at 29 days and adding one extreme as was customary. * At the end of winter, savages usually lacked food.

Their audience were Christians who wanted to believe it.

After the children of Israel had avenged themselves of the Midianites, and captured their young virgins for future use, Moses was "gathered unto his people" (Num. 31.2), i.e., leaving the Sun, "he went and returned, and dwelt" with the Sun - he completed the circle of the zodiac, or year. Having thus looked upon the Promised Land (summer), Moses died, and buried himself in a valley in the land of Moab (water-father = Aquarius = Moses), "but no man knoweth of his sepulcher unto this day" (Deut. 34.6). Although one hundred and twenty years old, " his eyes," it is said, " were not dim (his stars shine as brightly now as they did then), nor his natural force abated (the rainy season still comes on every year) " However, the people wept thirty days, i.e., during the passage of the Sun through Aquarius, the Wash-pot (Ps 60.8), or the rainy month of January.

Other similarity: Moses never existed.

@@peteralleyman1945 Moses is a man with a water pitcher and he has many names. Once upon a time, the supreme god of the bible, ZEUS, saw Moses as a most beautiful and desirable boy. He so so love smitten that he turned himself into an Eagle (Aquila) and carried young Moses (aka Shinar) to Mount Sinai. Moses became the royal cupbearer to the gods and he became their favorite boy-toy. Naturally one of his names was Ganymede. You will find Zeus as the Eagle, in Exodus 19.4. Oh! By the way, the biblical Shinar means boy-Sun. The Shin is from Shan (the sun) and Nar is from Naar (boy).

@@harveywabbit9541 : You really don't expect me to respond to these wild unsubstantiated theories do you. According to one's theory, no actual person existed as shown in history books.

@@jimjuri6490 Moses never was.

Yea, by late first century the movement was mostly gentiles - the Jews overwhelmingly rejected the Jesus as God narrative. So the Jews became the bad guys who killed Jesus when the reality is that it was the Romans.

I agree; I don't think Jesus was of much importance to Pilate at all. Pilate's main concern was likely a trouble free Passover, after which everyone would go home and continue to pay their taxes. Jesus and his little band of oddballs was a minor speedbump that Pilate dealt with in the proscribed way by executing the leader. I suspect there was a public reading of the charges with Jesus present, sentence passed and that was it. No washing of hands or offering to pardon Jesus, or a private chat that we somehow know the contents of.

I agree, except for early Christians seeking to curry favor with Rome. Most of the Early Christians were Jews. In sectarian fights no one is worse than the party that is closest to you but slightly different. The Bolsheviks hated the Czarists, but they hated the Mensheviks the most. The early Christians blamed the Jews because they saw themselves as the “true” Jews and all Jews who failed to join them as traitors. Ehrman has written on this and said more or less the same.

Don't tell MTG!

While Jesus and his disciples were Jews and the early beginnings of Christianity were Jewish, by mid to late first century (when the gospels were written) Christianity had become a movement dominated by gentile converts. The Jews overwhelmingly rejected the divinity of Jesus (or any other human) so even those who thought Jesus may have been the messiah were not part of the growing movement that became mainstream Christianity. Easy to see where they were made scapegoats in the gospels.

Only "quite" sure?

Joseph, a rich man from Arimathea (Earth at the end of summer) now put in his appearance. He went straight to Pilate and demanded the Savior’s body. Joseph being a just man, like Noah, Pilate (Sagittarius) gave him the body. The legs were not broken; how fortunate, as without legs the Savior could not have resurrected himself. The soldiers had pierced his side with a spear (they knew better, but it was done that the Scripture might be fulfilled), and “forthwith there came out blood and water” (wine-making). Joseph (the Earth) took the body and wrapped it in “clean linen” (emblem of the Earth), and laid it in a new tomb (winter) and departed.-Mat. 27:60. The two Marys sat opposite him (Sun in Virgo), all this time and took notes up to the end of the sixth hour (month). Here his God, Aries, or the Ram forsook him; for they heard him cry with a loud voice: -ELI, ELI, lama Sabachthani, i.e., literally in English, “my Ram, my Ram, why hast thou forsaken me?” The Ram forsakes the Sun every fall, getting behind the Earth in the night hemisphere. From the sixth hour (month) until the ninth hour (month), there was darkness-from the fall equinox to the winter solstice. At the Sixth hour, the Savior gave up the Ghost, or, summer wind, i.e., the monsoon changed. The third hour (actually Hora) = summer solstice. The sixth hour = autumn equinox. The ninth hour = winter solstice. The 12th hour = the savior at the spring equinox.

Is that where she found her homosexual/atheist/doctor(ate) husband? Not that there is anything wrong with that; it actually seems somewhat fitting for a queer/Christian/dropout.

@drbulbul - I don't know that film, but I know a great place NOT to meet a mate - any bar whatsoever!

I was always told as a kid the best places to find a mate was the grocery store, church or the library. Love happens where it happens.

How do you know he's gay? ​@@John.Flower.Productions

@@tangerinetangerine4400 That is what she has publically stated.

Same. It makes my skin crawl hearing those awful details

“As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed. 6 But he said to them, “Do not be alarmed; you are looking for Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He has been raised; he is not here. Look, there is the place they laid him.” Mark has the women go to the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, and has the body of Jesus missing.

It does not say it directly, but it implies it by saying Jesus is not here and this is where they laid him

This is what jahovas witnesses teach. I'm not sure of any other sources for that.

Interesting because the original greek word translated as "cross" by christians can be used for a tree, log, stick, plank or any large piece of wood. So a pole is possible.

That is a mistranslation popularized by JW’s but not historically accurate.

It's about the nature of creation.

True, but Josephus isn't the one remembering back 40 years, he was told about it 40 years later and that doesn't really make it concrete evidence even if it's the best evidence we have

Lol no😂

@@AlexLightGiverI’m genuinely curious to see what your position is and why you think it to be so.

​@@MrMortal_Rai posted a comment. Lets discuss it

​​​see my comment. Here's what truly happened to these three divine people. Jesus was entombed in Kashmir India. Mary Magdalene s remains are in a Church in France. Mother Stayed In Pakistan where a town was named after her including a brewery .

Jesus, the sun, was crucified in Egypt (west/evening) and at Calvary (east/morning).

Excellent point!

everyone understands

Well I have an explanation. Noone witnessed these things happening. The only ones who claimed to have been witnesses are his disciples. So people about 2000 years ago felt as I do. They didn't believe these things happened.

Honi the Circle-drawer according to Josephus writes that he died in the days of the Hasmonean civil war, forty years before the birth of Jesus. A legend in the Talmud (Taanit 23A) states that 70 years after his death he awoke and emerged. No one believed that he was Honi so finally "became very upset, prayed for mercy, and died." So if you returned years after you died who would believe you? There were of course no photos back then. Here is a text excerpt from the Talmud: Ḥoni sat and ate bread. Sleep overcame him and he slept. A cliff formed around him, and he disappeared from sight and slept for seventy years. When he awoke, he saw a certain man gathering carobs from that tree. Ḥoni said to him: Are you the one who planted this tree? The man said to him: I am his son’s son. Ḥoni said to him: I can learn from this that I have slept for seventy years, and indeed he saw that his donkey had sired several herds during those many years. Ḥoni went home and said to the members of the household: Is the son of Ḥoni HaMe’aggel alive? They said to him: His son is no longer with us, but his son’s son is alive. He said to them: I am Ḥoni HaMe’aggel. They did not believe him. He went to the study hall, where he heard the Sages say about one scholar: His halakhot are as enlightening and as clear as in the years of Ḥoni HaMe’aggel, for when Ḥoni HaMe’aggel would enter the study hall he would resolve for the Sages any difficulty they had. Ḥoni said to them: I am he, but they did not believe him and did not pay him proper respect. Ḥoni became very upset, prayed for mercy, and died.

Just for the fun of it: “Sir…. Sir…. Sir…. Sir….. c.. c.. can we have the body of our Lord? Roman guard: 😂😂 “your funny man, good one”.

He would have said, sure, he is that big ball of fire in the sky.

The guards were bribed. The Christian counter denial narrative is in the bible.

Lol

Jesus, is the winter sun of five months (Rev 9.5. Scorpio leads Sagittarius thru Pisces). The winter sun "dies" at the pass over from winter to spring. The five iron nails symbol the five signs in Rev. 9.5. Same with the five mice (mice symbol night and winter). See Hebrew Mythology or Science of the Bible, by Milton Woolley.

Ah, if only it said that he paid a bribe, but it doesn't. I see your point, but that becomes the problem with these things. So much conjecture has to be added in order to make most biblical stories even remotely plausible, that you leave the text long behind and just start fan fiction.

@@Eric_01 Hey, don't get me wrong, a physical resurrection is supernatural and, as such, cannot be proven. Ditto a virgin birth. The burial of Jesus, however, is more than remotely plausible and, as I argued above, not improbable or it wouldn't have been accepted by near contemporaries. Joseph Smith finding and the losing golden tablets but, that's okay, 'cuz he 'members what they said . . . that requires a stupendous level of gullibility. An act of charity, with or without silver passing hands, is not so rare an event to stretch credulity, even if it takes place off-stage.

THE RESURRECTION. , The Savior was now (winter) deposited in his tomb. As the Sabbath (winter) was nearing its end, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the sepulchre, bringing sweet spices (the spring flowers) with them. They found the stone rolled away, i.e., it was spring. Mary ran to Peter (Aries) and told him the Savior's body wasn't in the tomb (winter). Peter, of course, was badly scared, and ran off with another disciple (Pisces) but got outrun, the last passing the Sun first. However, both found the “linen clothes” = the Earth. All then went home, i.e., the two sets of constellations (winter and summer) came into position at the spring equinox. Meanwhile “the vail of the temple (intereaspansum templi = the plane of the solstices) was rent (scissum est = was divided) from the top to the bottom, and the earth did quake (mota est = was moved, i.e., over the equinoctial line); and the rocks were rent” by the dissolving frosts. The graves were opened, i.e., the winter was past, and “many saints” (summer constellations) which slept (in the dark hemisphere) arose, and appeared to many, i.e., to such as understood the riddle. Mary stood without, at the sepulchre,” weeping (the latter rain); and as she wept, she stooped down (went below the equator), and, looking, saw two angels in white (the light of spring), sitting, one (Aries) at the head, and the other (Pisces) at the feet (see your almanac), where the body of Jesus had lain. “Why weepest thou?” said the angels. Because, said Mary, I cannot find my Lord. Being a night constellation, she couldn't see the Sun. Turning back just then (Lot's wife looked back), she saw Jesus standing, but didn't know him. He addressed her, when, turning again, she knew him (but didn't see him), and exclaimed Rabboni (My great one). Jesus said, “touch me not;” for I am not ascended to my Father (the Holy Ghost). The Sun and Virgo don’t come in conjunction until the end of the summer. Hence in the spring Jesus said to her: “touch me not;” “but go and tell my brethren that I ascend unto my father, and your Father; and to my God and your God” (Sun entered Aries). * Why did Mary stand without the sepulchre? Because, being a summer constellation, she was obliged to share the lot of God, or Aries, her leader. Night or day, winter or Summer, she is always with the Lord, though she is not always able to see him. Hence the mutual love each bore the other. Of all this Mary duly informed the disciples. On the evening of the first day (month) of the week (the seven summer months), Jesus stood in the midst, i.e., at the spring equinox, and said: - “Peace be unto you,” i.e., let summer come. The disciples were glad to see their Lord (the summer Sun). So, Jesus repeated: - “Peace be unto you.” He then breathed on them, and said: - “Receive ye the Holy Ghost” = the summer wind. This Holy Ghost, by the way, was a terrible fellow. Of him it is said: - “Whosoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him; neither in this world (year), nor in the world (year) to come.” “All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven, but this against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.”-Mat. 12: 31, 32. Why, Christian? Tell me why? This has been the great stumbling block to both Christians, and Anti-Christians; none being able to resolve it. The Holy Ghost is the summer wind. Now, if you don’t get in and raise a crop during summer, you commit a sin against the Holy Ghost, which will not be forgiven during this year or any subsequent one. “Time once past never returns.” All right. After these things, i.e., after the summer was past, Jesus showed himself to his disciples at the sea of Tiberias. Here, with Simon Peter and others, he entered a ship (Noah's ark). This was at night (winter). During “that night they caught nothing.” In the morning (spring), Jesus stood on the shore; but his disciples didn’t as yet know him-the time being between winter and summer. But Jesus asked: - “Have ye any meat?” No; * answered they. “Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find.” They were in luck; for, Simon Peter drew the net, and caught 153 big fishes and didn’t break his net, i.e., the year was completed and whole. Simon (Pisces) denoted the fishing season, and the 153 big fishes doubtless referred to the number of days in the winter months just past, counting in February at 29 days and adding one extreme as was customary. * At the end of winter, savages usually lacked food.

@@harveywabbit9541 'cuz nothing convinces people of your position so much as a long, rambling post pertaining to nothing under discussion. Pooka - a figure from Celtic mythology, often taking the form of a large animal. Appearing to this one and that one. Fond of crackpots, rumpots and how are you Mr. Wilson.

@@michaelmanning5379 Jesus is aka Satan. Remember where he was called Beelzebub?

Unlikely. The Roman’s had no reason to give up on a crucifixion, which was supposed to teach a lesson to potential troublemakers. Showing a weakness was not in their interest. It is possible that the guards were bribed to give back the body, or Jesus was buried for political reasons, as a show of « good will » for Passover, for example, but he was most likely dead.

What about the spear thrust up into his heart?

@@pdyt2009 I recall the spear being thrust into his side.

@@chefchaudard3580 Yes! I was just speculating.

@@pdyt2009 The story is just that the spear was stuck into his side, not his heart. And the blood and water sound more theological than real. Probably just an additional made up detail.

This would have been a crime and severely punished. It is unlikely, based on information we have.

THE RESURRECTION. , The Savior was now (winter) deposited in his tomb. As the Sabbath (winter) was nearing its end, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the sepulchre, bringing sweet spices (the spring flowers) with them. They found the stone rolled away, i.e., it was spring. Mary ran to Peter (Aries) and told him the Savior's body wasn't in the tomb (winter). Peter, of course, was badly scared, and ran off with another disciple (Pisces) but got outrun, the last passing the Sun first. However, both found the “linen clothes” = the Earth. All then went home, i.e., the two sets of constellations (winter and summer) came into position at the spring equinox. Meanwhile “the vail of the temple (intereaspansum templi = the plane of the solstices) was rent (scissum est = was divided) from the top to the bottom, and the earth did quake (mota est = was moved, i.e., over the equinoctial line); and the rocks were rent” by the dissolving frosts. The graves were opened, i.e., the winter was past, and “many saints” (summer constellations) which slept (in the dark hemisphere) arose, and appeared to many, i.e., to such as understood the riddle. Mary stood without, at the sepulchre,” weeping (the latter rain); and as she wept, she stooped down (went below the equator), and, looking, saw two angels in white (the light of spring), sitting, one (Aries) at the head, and the other (Pisces) at the feet (see your almanac), where the body of Jesus had lain. “Why weepest thou?” said the angels. Because, said Mary, I cannot find my Lord. Being a night constellation, she couldn't see the Sun. Turning back just then (Lot's wife looked back), she saw Jesus standing, but didn't know him. He addressed her, when, turning again, she knew him (but didn't see him), and exclaimed Rabboni (My great one). Jesus said, “touch me not;” for I am not ascended to my Father (the Holy Ghost). The Sun and Virgo don’t come in conjunction until the end of the summer. Hence in the spring Jesus said to her: “touch me not;” “but go and tell my brethren that I ascend unto my father, and your Father; and to my God and your God” (Sun entered Aries). * Why did Mary stand without the sepulchre? Because, being a summer constellation, she was obliged to share the lot of God, or Aries, her leader. Night or day, winter or Summer, she is always with the Lord, though she is not always able to see him. Hence the mutual love each bore the other. Of all this Mary duly informed the disciples. On the evening of the first day (month) of the week (the seven summer months), Jesus stood in the midst, i.e., at the spring equinox, and said: - “Peace be unto you,” i.e., let summer come. The disciples were glad to see their Lord (the summer Sun). So, Jesus repeated: - “Peace be unto you.” He then breathed on them, and said: - “Receive ye the Holy Ghost” = the summer wind. This Holy Ghost, by the way, was a terrible fellow. Of him it is said: - “Whosoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him; neither in this world (year), nor in the world (year) to come.” “All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven, but this against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.”-Mat. 12: 31, 32. Why, Christian? Tell me why? This has been the great stumbling block to both Christians, and Anti-Christians; none being able to resolve it. The Holy Ghost is the summer wind. Now, if you don’t get in and raise a crop during summer, you commit a sin against the Holy Ghost, which will not be forgiven during this year or any subsequent one. “Time once past never returns.” All right. After these things, i.e., after the summer was past, Jesus showed himself to his disciples at the sea of Tiberias. Here, with Simon Peter and others, he entered a ship (Noah's ark). This was at night (winter). During “that night they caught nothing.” In the morning (spring), Jesus stood on the shore; but his disciples didn’t as yet know him-the time being between winter and summer. But Jesus asked: - “Have ye any meat?” No; * answered they. “Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find.” They were in luck; for, Simon Peter drew the net, and caught 153 big fishes and didn’t break his net, i.e., the year was completed and whole. Simon (Pisces) denoted the fishing season, and the 153 big fishes doubtless referred to the number of days in the winter months just past, counting in February at 29 days and adding one extreme as was customary. * At the end of winter, savages usually lacked food.

Yeah, but I don't think she could pull off the black rims with that pink hair. ; )

That’s a day and a half.

If Jesus was 'scourged' by the Romans the night before, it seems to me that could explain an early death on the cross. It might also have been that he wasn't a very physically strong individual to begin with, which might have been a component of his apparently more developed and pacifistic philosophy than other would-be messiahs of the time.

@@TankUniAlso I’m not sure if this idea has been debunked or is even plausible but someone was telling me that the likely reason why Jesus chest spewed water after a Roman impaled him with a spear was because he had pneumonia which could’ve been a contributing factor to his death assuming that part isn’t legendary.

@@Jackal_El_Lobo34 I suspect that part is probably legendary

THE RESURRECTION. , The Savior was now (winter) deposited in his tomb. As the Sabbath (winter) was nearing its end, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the sepulchre, bringing sweet spices (the spring flowers) with them. They found the stone rolled away, i.e., it was spring. Mary ran to Peter (Aries) and told him the Savior's body wasn't in the tomb (winter). Peter, of course, was badly scared, and ran off with another disciple (Pisces) but got outrun, the last passing the Sun first. However, both found the “linen clothes” = the Earth. All then went home, i.e., the two sets of constellations (winter and summer) came into position at the spring equinox. Meanwhile “the vail of the temple (intereaspansum templi = the plane of the solstices) was rent (scissum est = was divided) from the top to the bottom, and the earth did quake (mota est = was moved, i.e., over the equinoctial line); and the rocks were rent” by the dissolving frosts. The graves were opened, i.e., the winter was past, and “many saints” (summer constellations) which slept (in the dark hemisphere) arose, and appeared to many, i.e., to such as understood the riddle. Mary stood without, at the sepulchre,” weeping (the latter rain); and as she wept, she stooped down (went below the equator), and, looking, saw two angels in white (the light of spring), sitting, one (Aries) at the head, and the other (Pisces) at the feet (see your almanac), where the body of Jesus had lain. “Why weepest thou?” said the angels. Because, said Mary, I cannot find my Lord. Being a night constellation, she couldn't see the Sun. Turning back just then (Lot's wife looked back), she saw Jesus standing, but didn't know him. He addressed her, when, turning again, she knew him (but didn't see him), and exclaimed Rabboni (My great one). Jesus said, “touch me not;” for I am not ascended to my Father (the Holy Ghost). The Sun and Virgo don’t come in conjunction until the end of the summer. Hence in the spring Jesus said to her: “touch me not;” “but go and tell my brethren that I ascend unto my father, and your Father; and to my God and your God” (Sun entered Aries). * Why did Mary stand without the sepulchre? Because, being a summer constellation, she was obliged to share the lot of God, or Aries, her leader. Night or day, winter or Summer, she is always with the Lord, though she is not always able to see him. Hence the mutual love each bore the other. Of all this Mary duly informed the disciples. On the evening of the first day (month) of the week (the seven summer months), Jesus stood in the midst, i.e., at the spring equinox, and said: - “Peace be unto you,” i.e., let summer come. The disciples were glad to see their Lord (the summer Sun). So, Jesus repeated: - “Peace be unto you.” He then breathed on them, and said: - “Receive ye the Holy Ghost” = the summer wind. This Holy Ghost, by the way, was a terrible fellow. Of him it is said: - “Whosoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him; neither in this world (year), nor in the world (year) to come.” “All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven, but this against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.”-Mat. 12: 31, 32. Why, Christian? Tell me why? This has been the great stumbling block to both Christians, and Anti-Christians; none being able to resolve it. The Holy Ghost is the summer wind. Now, if you don’t get in and raise a crop during summer, you commit a sin against the Holy Ghost, which will not be forgiven during this year or any subsequent one. “Time once past never returns.” All right. After these things, i.e., after the summer was past, Jesus showed himself to his disciples at the sea of Tiberias. Here, with Simon Peter and others, he entered a ship (Noah's ark). This was at night (winter). During “that night they caught nothing.” In the morning (spring), Jesus stood on the shore; but his disciples didn’t as yet know him-the time being between winter and summer. But Jesus asked: - “Have ye any meat?” No; * answered they. “Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find.” They were in luck; for, Simon Peter drew the net, and caught 153 big fishes and didn’t break his net, i.e., the year was completed and whole. Simon (Pisces) denoted the fishing season, and the 153 big fishes doubtless referred to the number of days in the winter months just past, counting in February at 29 days and adding one extreme as was customary. * At the end of winter, savages usually lacked food.

@@Jackal_El_Lobo34 That part is almost certainly legendary. Beyond being implausible on face, it doesn't show up until John, some 60 years after the fact, and has a fairly clear symbolic significance. There's no need to cast around for naturalistic explanations of that one.

What…..?

Why would we think they stuck around in Jerusalem after the execution of their leader? The actual resurrection appearances (on some of the accounts) happened back in Galilee.

@@normative Good point.

Jesus is estimated be about four and a half billions years old. Seems the crucifixions have not affected him in the slightest.

Pilate didnt think Jesus was a criminal.He said he "found no fault in this innocent man"

@@edwardadelman5360 prove this from a historical perspective