I find every episode interesting and engaging. I am not a believer, but have read the Bible through a couple of times trying to make sense of it and I have fortunately failed miserably. Neither my wife of 58 years or I were raised in church going Christian families and your broadcasts prove over and over that we have been very fortunate.

Thomas Jefferson: "...I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence: and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being. I separate therefore the gold from the dross; restore to him the former, & leave the latter to the stupidity of some, and roguery of others of his disciples. of this band of dupes and impostors, Paul was the great Coryphaeus, and first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus. these palpable interpolations and falsifications of his doctrines led me to try to sift them apart."

I will never turn you off. Keep talking.

I tend to asume anything the gospel writers say Jesus said is only loosely based on what he actually said combined with lots of additions

You both are awesome thanks for putting this together. These are the right lever points to understand our culture and how some of us humans try and cope with our fear of life and death.

6:45 the content begins

Superb, illuminating discussion. THANK YOU SO MUCH, Megan and Bart!

I m an australian italian living in italy ...and i would always take picalillies from.england and branston pickles..and various chutneys ....and whereever i can i ll have a meat pie before leaving britain or australia

It would be so cool if Bart put some pink, purple, and blue coloring on his beard and mustache to match with Megan's hair! Imagine how awesome it would look with their matching round glasses too when they both are side-by-side on the screen! I think that would really boost the show! Bart, if you're able to get this message, let's make it happen! 😂

In his introduction to Androcles and the Lion, Shaw says Paul made Christianity into as salvation religion (of which he says there were many) - whereas Jesus was talking about love- Bhakti- love of God, forgiving the debts of others, loving your enemy, seeing God in everyone, especially the least among us, and giving up our attachment to the rewards of the world in order to gain the kingdom of heaven.

Actually I think Paul is the founder of the sect of Christianity that end up being known as Christianity after exterminating all of their competition.

Love these smart discussions, the give and take is really well done. You're both pro's and their videos show that. Reading one of Barts books rn- "Lost Christianities " funny thing is - as I read, the voice in my head sounds like Bart! Keep on...

I really enjoyed the discussion about foods 😘. I was raised an atheist (and still am) and have read the Bible several times and find it confusing and enjoy this channel's information.

Eurman I've read all your books most of your lectures your a rare breed most brilliant people can't explain things in layman's terms You can.and reach millions more people in being able to articulate your points superior Bart .looking forward to another book 📖 .thanks Bart .

thank you,dott Bart, really enjoyed it 🎉🎉🎉

Thank you so much for such a great episode!

Bart's soapbox this week is my 24/7 365 soapbox!

Beyond excited for this one

I would say that Paul is the founder of christianity in the same way that Ray Kroc is the founder of McDonald's. As in, Ray Kroc wasn't Dick or Mac McDonald and Paul wasn't Jesus - but Ray, and Paul, were the guys who popularized it, spread it all over the world, got all the franchises going.... Without Ray Kroc, McDonald's would still be a family-run single store in San Bernardino - Without Paul, christianity would be an obscure (and by now possibly extinct) Jewish cult that never made an impact on the world. (possibly slight exaggerations there but not by much.) And Ray, like Paul, made a lot of changes to the plan after he took over....

You can’t tell the differences between Jesus and Paul because we don’t have the teachings of Jesus. The 4Gospels were written 10-20 years after Paul, largely to add & correct what Paul had to profess about Jesus.

Lately I’ve been watching everything Dr. Ehrman in YT. One topic I haven’t found anything yet from Dr Ehrman, and therefore I’d like to kindly suggest this topic for an upcoming episode: what are the possible methods for dating the Gospels, which one Dr Ehrman prefers, and why. I think it’s an interesting topic because many arguments from Dr Ehrman start with the approximate date of when the gospels were written, but for laymen like me, that is not so obvious. If that subject has already been tackled by Dr Ehrman, either on YT or anywhere else, please point me in the right direction. Much appreciated!

Love this topic and subject! ❤

I think there should be an in dept discussion, dedicated to the relationships, between Jesus, James, (brother of Jesus), Peter, (Bishop of Jerusalem), and Paul... What they agreed on, what they disagreed about, the final outcomes, and relationships going forward.

Thanks for another wonderful episode!

Yes, about curry being quintessentially British food. Do you remember Peter Ustinov's film "Stiff Upper Lips." When the company gets upset by brawling, oversexed Italians, Emily's aunt suggests "Let's go somewhere more British… India!"

Excellent, ty👍

I hope we will always maintain the right to have intelligent discussions about religion based on research and reason. Megan, I love your new (?) glasses.

I definitely find the doctrine of substitutionary attonement reprehensible

Ive enjoyed that the end segment themes have been off for a little while. Very fun being told that Bart will be on his Soap box only for the narrator to tell us to make a fool of him.

The doctrine of atonement IS distasteful 1000% agreed

I would love to see Tovia Singer and Bart do a podcast together

I always forget that you are here in NC. I would absolutely LOVE to attend one of your lectures or courses live. Please let me know if that’s a possibility.

Yes, Bart has once more hit the nail right on the head.

Thank you.

For some reason the first adbreak about the podcast only came through my left speaker, and music was coming through on the right

Thankyou for this episode! 08:58 I would really be interested in the authorship of Paul’s letters. Especially an explanation of the scholarly method to decide authorship. Is it mainly based on literary and theological differences? Is it the evidence which letters were know by the early church? Are there alternative explanations for these differences?

Pretty good for change. Great questions and legit attempts at answers.

The best class I had in my Lutheran Seminary studies ca 1974 was "The Jesus of History Christ of Faith Debate" great fun.

No sound, still wonderful to see you both, God bless, 😊

Love you Megan....🤗🌎✌️, you guys are so interesting...🤓🧐, I love watching your show. Thank you so much... And God bless you...🌟😇...

Thsnks for letting me speak my mind

Thank you dr Burt Eherman I kip your saying thanks to Meaghan also have a pleasant day

I am thrilled to learn about the whisky from Bart 😅

YES. PLEASE do the weaponization discussion. As a pastor I might end up recommending to our congregation.

I'd find it really interesting if you could do a follow-up episode on how the letters of Paul are evaluated by scholars for authenticity.

I have to say that hair colour and the eyeliner looks fantastic

Megan and Bart, this is really big stuff.. I mean really big- all of your videos are super interesting with fascinating facts and points of history.. THIS one, is so fundamentally important for understanding Christianity- everyone should know these things (Christians most especially!).. but, human nature being what it is- they won't.. :)

I don't see a place on the order page to enter the discount code

Also, I always saw the two strains of forgiveness vs atonement but I was instructed to be a good little soldier and trust that they were reconciled. They would have been better to have allowed some of us to just pick the first and better option because, like so many others, that was the first crack that showed me the light that led me out of Christianity and eventually all religion.

Been going to the UK for 20 years and always bring back loose tea from Fortnam and Mason.

The problem with the doctrine of atonement is that it implies that God is beholden to some kind of cosmic economic force that obligates him to receive a payment before he can forgive a debt. That suggests that God isn't all-powerful and didn't create everything, if there's this system above him that he has to obey like that. Otherwise he could just forgive us whenever he wants.

I think Jesus also says that one’s sins will be forgiven to the extent that one forgives others who have sinned against one’s self.

Weren't the Gospels written after the writings of Paul?

Well now we know Dr. Ehrman is a party animal. 👍👊

Based on the available sources, Jesus and Paul had very little in common. Paul was explicit in his lack of knowledge about or concern for Jesus, as he was only teaching/preaching Christ (which is quite different from anything else found in that era of Christianity/Judaism).

26:20 where did Paul get these quotes from?

Religion of Jesus is forgiveness Religion about jesus is atonement

I love today's Soapbox!

When some one gives their life for a purpose that doesn't mean the are killed ,you just do all you can to make someone life better than it was it doesn't require death.😮

I'd love to see what would come of a meeting of minds between Bart and Ammon Hillman. That would be something.

Is it possible to follow them both .....great question

I've often wondered if Jesus's saying that he will "give himself as ransom for many" is really part of atonement theology. Couldn't he have been saying that he will give himself up so many of his followers could get away and get free of the persecution of the Roman and Jewish authorities? This is far different than saying he will give himself up for the sins of the world.

Mk. 10:45 "For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” Ransom means "consideration paid or demanded for the release of someone or something from captivity".

The DIscussion starts at around 7 minutes, just in case anybody wants to know.

Bringing food over when you travel. Sacrelidge !!! One of the main joys of it all is finding out what culinary tricks the locals have up their sleeves. Allthough, just to point out the obvious, there are 3 people in your world who's cooking can not be beat 1. Your mother. 2 and 3 your grandmothers. It is an unwritten law of the universe. I will never forget 35 years of age after having worked 7 100 plus hour weeks of physical labour (not the hardest not the lightest either) in Italy With the dirt and grime still covering you driving cleanly across Europe Back to my home town of Delft arriving at my parents house at 02:45. Finding my mom waiting for me and my boy's with a giant pot of steaming hot snert , and a load of rauwe andijvie stampot. And a few ice cold beers. I don't care who you are or how manyvstars you may have. THAT kind of cooking simply is unbeatable.

This is close to what Nietzsche wrote about Paul in "The Antichrist".

I'd appreciate it if you had time stamps for each segment.

Oh this is going to be good 🍿

Great podcast Bart and Megan. Prof Erhman who do you think came up with the whole redemption scheme as a plot hole filler now that they’ve stopped scratching their heads when Jesus is executed and no kingdom of god arrives Do you think Jesus actually said why hast thou forsaken me? Seems to really fit the idea that Jesus had a messiah complex and was shocked that he was dying, no angels inbound to save him so he cried out that famous line.

Great video. On the question of whether they had different ethical teachings, I don't know if they ever outright contradict, but it almost seems like they had different attitudes towards women in authority. Jesus encouraged women to preach and I'm not sure if Paul did the same.

instant coffee isn't a bad method of making coffee, it just happens that instant coffee is usually made with bad coffee as an ingredient. If the instant coffee making process was performed on good coffee it would still be pretty good coffee.

A Great episode - covered much of the same ground as in previous episode but a little more depth. [13:43] Paul does not talk about forgiveness. ... Paul did not think that God forgave people. He thought that God accepted the atonement of Jesus. And so it's a different conception of how salvation comes about. [15:16] This is why the early 20th century Scholars were saying things like: 'the religion of Jesus is forgiveness and the religion about Jesus is atonement' 16:43 If someone asked Jesus what they had to do to be saved, what would he have answered? "In the Matthew Mark and Luke, this man comes up to Jesus and he says to Jesus, 'What do I have to do to have eternal life? And Jesus has an immediate response: 'He says keep the Commandments'" (17:33) ... And so it is really it's not just a different answer. It is a contrary answer"

33:15 except that Metanoia doesn't mean to ask for forgiveness and to be sorry to God, right? This word we so often see as translated to "repent" actually means something closer to "shift your perspective" or "change your understanding"...

If you forgive someone their debt (13:10), they have to declare it as income to the IRS.

Is there any scholarships for Bart's courses for those who don't have a spare dime? Widows that don't have a mite? The disabled who can't work?

how would we know if paul diverged from jesus teaching or not by comparing paul's jesus with mark's jesus that came after paul like?

Praise Zeus in the sky! Megan's hairdo is so amazing.

I love what Bart says about atonement, i m definitely a Jesus guy too

Some of the things here are quite sad to me, it wasnt "some guy" had to be tortured, the prophets of old told us, God himself would become human to sacrifice himself once and for all for all our sins. It is the greatest love story.

Perhaps the earliest Christology in the NT is set forth in the famous Philippians hymn apparently incorporated by Paul in the early portion of his letter.There is no transactional personal salvation process described in that hymn, which indicates to me that Paul could indeed have been the origin of such a notion, so foreign to the historical Jesus as best we can glean him.

@onejohn2,26 ...Lol 😂😂😂 ... I'm sorry for laughing but, 😱 omg ... I think God is a lot more tolerant, loving and understanding than many folks would have a person believe ... Humans seem to love to put restrictions on God and to try to put God in a box ... Something to think about I believe... Lets let God be God and just try to live our lives with loving-kindness ... Like Jesus told us ... That's my 2 cents for whatever it's worth ...lol God Bless 🙏💯...

i love the Megan Lewis show

It seems to me that John, Paul, and the author of Hebrews had a new and mystical take on the Logos doctrine -- that the "word" of God (specifically as Psalm 33:6 describes it as "the breath of His mouth") literally, even hyper-literally, became the man Jesus, resulting in an "incarnate Torah" -- not an "incarnate God." Then they developed this so that the "death" of the Torah had the effect of canceling "the first covenant" (Hebrews 9:15) and its accompanying transgressions; while the resurrection of this "word/Torah" inaugurated the "new covenant." This is where they get expressions like "blood of the covenant" and "[law] nailed to the cross (Colossians 2:14), even in conjunction with Christian Jews being "zealous for the Torah," which otherwise would be contradictory. In a word, they believed in the death and resurrection of the Torah. Taking it one more step, they taught this was a one-time event and no repentance is possible for sin against this new covenant (Hebrews 10:26-31). One other aspect of this doctrine is probably what led to the erroneous belief that Jesus is God -- and that is the Christian bible's three-time mention of "creation THROUGH the Word/Torah" - John 1:3, 1 Corinthians 8:6, and Hebrews 1:2. This brings us back to Psalm 33:6, "By the word of the Lord, the heavens were made, and with the breath of His mouth, all their host." The Word is nothing other than the speech of God which WAS God but became a man, according to John. Paul and the author of Hebrews agree.

❤

I can't imagine bringing any food from the US to Europe, not even UK Europe.

It seems to me that Jesus, born under law, taught how impossible it is to enter the kingdom by law keeping. The sermon on the mount pointed out that very fact. Paul, under grace, taught the way to enter the kingdom was thru the atonement of Jesus on the cross.

I have your book titled how jesus became god. I am not good in english, however,, from 🇮🇩, Awesome Dr! 👍👍

In Cambridge UK, there's one kind of food you cannot get: a knish! I don't think it's anti-Semitic, just disrespect for potatoes. Excellent discussion today. I'm sure there are scholars devoting their whole lives to this subject - and nowhere closer to clarity. I couldn't be a historian - too many missing pieces. 😀

Read ‘Paul and Jesus’ by James tabor. It is really that good.

Talking about food, what did the early christians eat?

🤭I was looking at the KZfaq start page and I read too quickly "Paul and Jesus ate dogs" and I thought to myself "these disinformation channels have gone too far" before realizing it was you and the title was actually "Paul and Jesus at Odds"

I would love something on the last supper. Were we really all admonished to regularly engage in cannibalism? I don't get why some take teachings so often in the form of metaphor and parable and suddenly in the instance of the last supper, assume to take it literally.

There's a lot I like living in Spain now, but I'll take a Whopper over a Malteser any day of the week.

Letting any politician, but particularly demogogues, to get under ones skin is an exercise in futility. "Cognitive Easing" is a psychological principle where a despicable person, when frequently and repeatedly presented, becomes more and more acceptable. It is definitely used by unpopular political entities, as a tool to become more popular. Any publicity, even bad publicity , is valuable when it comes to the election booth.

"the religion of Jesus is forgiveness. the religion about Jesus is atonement..." Profound

If Paul's accounts are the closest I'm a little disappointed, I was hoping to find out more about him as a historical person. Oh well hopefully one day some new information might show up. However it makes me wonder what Paul had been told about Jesus and who said it to him. Questions will probably never know the answers to.

Hi Bart and Megan. I’ve watched most of the videos on this channel and lots of Bart’s debates on other channels. I’ve also just finished reading Bart’s “Heaven and Hell” book, and used it briefly in my doctoral dissertation - I am writing about how Mozart wrote his music in the “Requiem in D Minor” K626 to reflect the concepts of eternity, heaven, and hell. I just ordered the “Forged” and “Misquoting Jesus” books. I am on summer break and I am looking forward to reading those as well. I enjoyed watching this video. Your videos are always very informative, and for me personally, they are often a challenge to go find adequate answers in order to justify my Christian faith. I do have one question, especially since I’ve heard you (Bart) make a similar statement in a previous video. Towards the end of today’s video - around 32:55 - you say that you do not find it acceptable that God would require a sacrifice (even that of His Son) in order to forgive. You go on and say that it would make more sense to you if God simply chose to forgive, without the need for an atonement. With all due respect, and without trying to be rude to you or your audience, if there IS a God like the one described in Scripture, and if He DOES have the expectation for an atonement sacrifice in order to forgive, do you really think He would be concerned if Bart (or Florentin) or anyone else would have a problem with that, or if they found that to be “distasteful?” In all honesty, if God is who Scripture says He is, does He have to speak or behave in a way that would make you or me satisfied? Honest question. Hope you have a great day.

👍

Hello BAAAAT!

You guys mabye haven't noticed, but food prices in the UK have gone way up since "Brexit". Turning back to your conversation: I think that Saint Paul (who has got a quite famous cathedral over there in London) would have wrote letters to the Remainers, whereas Jesus would probably have been with BoJo, Cummings and Farage throwing the UK out of the EU-Temple. Do you agree?