During the 65 years I have been studying the piano, I have been to many master classes, I have been told at least a dozen different ways of how to use the hands and the fingers and the relationship between the body and piano - what the pretentious would call "methods"!. I have watched the hands of many celebreted pianists while they were practicing. In the end, I think each performer takes what feels right for them and then modifies or rejects the rest. Each hand is different. Each arm weight is different.........

Impeccable. I usually don't stay till the end when someone I don't know plays a piece I know, but I couldn't stop listening this time.

Wow!

Absolutely!

Super

it's been my favorite nocturne for a while now

A few of them not so much, he would be the first to admit it.. he truly is a great pianist one of the greatest

chokolattecoffee

Sadly, not every student has this concentration and approach to the technical problems, most of the time, pupils don't have this awareness, so the result is a mediocre and ignorant musician that can't see further from their nose, awareness is what makes a musician a good musician. Without it, they all become a mediocre copy of what they see around, thus not developing a musical personality pf their own!

I agree. He has an old-style charm (I have no other way of verbalizing it) in these clips. It reminds me of some recordings of artists from the 40’s, 50’s and 60’s that have a kind of richness of sound that is rarely heard these days. However, many of his recordings sound strangely dry, such as his recording of the Chopin etudes.

Agreed. That same term, "economy of motion" was used by Glenn Gould's teacher as justification for teaching his "tapping" technique whereby the pianist would lay the fingers across the keys and tap them with the opposite hand to learn how little motion was required to press the key.

Hmm. Economy of motion sounds great-like spareness of line in architecture. But I wonder if it ignores what engineers know about Saarinen’s works, and string players know from vibrato-a lot more goes into that pie than apples!

Economy of emotion ?

@@christopherczajasager9030 I That's the auto correct :D , it's been corrected.

Liszt didn´t have this problem. He was a master of gesticulation, movement, facial expressions, as described by his pupils and numerous biographies..

I’m curious, what do you consider characteristic of the Igumnov school? I suspect I am a product of that school since my teacher’s teacher’s teacher was Igumnov.

@@rowanbelt3612 Same with me, my teacher's teacher's teacher was Igumnov. 😉 Difficult to describe in english language (I am german) and since I moved forward with Feuchtwanger's influence I prefer to focus on the future. Actually my russian professor did not teach the use of flat fingers, although her teacher's teacher was Igumnov. In general my impression is, that most of the russian school lost this tradition, as it was done by old-school-pianists as Moisewitsch or Horowitz. Peter Feuchtwanger taught me using more flat fingers in his unique way, which doesn't mean to have flat fingers in general, because it's always a movement and not (only) a position. So there is no fixed position, no dogmatic thinking, fingers can be rather flat or scrolled. Always depends on the situation. Also Peter Feuchtwanger was a genius in teaching a good flow in the pianistic movements and enabling his students to play without pain. Even pianists, who consulted him because of strong pain, managed to overcome their problems with his help.

Very sad to hear as this was my first time watching this documentary. When did he pass away? I also loved his interpretations

terracannon876

That's spot-on about Vladi's piano. He had his beloved Steinway refitted with a Yamaha pedal mechanism, which is much more responsive. Steinway went *STRAIGHT DOWNHILL* after the family sold-out in 1974. (Personally, I much prefer Bechstein...)

Perfect comment. I have been very confused lately watching all kinds of "the correct way to play piano" that say different things . I started watching videos on how to play because I got an injury and just wanted to fix any fundmental gaps that I have. I think as long as you produce the right sound without getting injuries, you can do it however you want

Yes

Perhaps it's not "either/or" but "both/and" and a whole lot more. In any event, his artistry cannot be impugned. If he has something useful in there take advantage of it.

I think you make a lot of great points, especially that there isn't just one technique. Now I want to focus on the comment about great pianists not talking about technique. First a caveat- you may mean something different than what I read in to it, so not trying to put words in your mouth, just offering additional thoughts. It seems that for some players who are truly natural, it's hard for them to explain exactly what they're doing. For those who weren't totally natural initially, perhaps they reached a point after playing so long that they forgot what it was like before they had a good technique. It's probably almost impossible to know the difference between who is capable of explaining, but doesn't, and those who say they don't want to explain, but couldn't anyway (I mean this comment sportingly, though there's probably a kernel of truth there). About seven years ago, I got more serious about piano (after dabbling for around 30 years, and after an 8-year period of no playing due to work/travel commitments). Essentially, I've only REALLY been playing for seven years. I've worked really hard, and looking back, probably too hard. Five months ago I started trying to figure out how to hold my hand (finally). The good ole 4-octave C-major scale was my benchmark since it is quite tricky on the fingers...compared to B-major, which is quite easy (alluded to in the video here). I stumbled across Taubman eventually (ironically, those videos are staring at me again in my recommended as I type this). That approach, along with watching old videos of Rubinstein, completely changed my world. That said, I STILL would never recommend a dogmatic approach to Taubman (the rotation Edna Golandsky suggests can be quite dangerous without proper weight and timing). But bits of it, now in hindsight, just were common sense that never hit me... like the in-and-out motion as you traverse black/white keys. Mr. Browning's comment about weight from the shoulders is also so important, I just never realized it. After all that, my point is I'm glad someone like Dorothy Taubman took time to analyze great players and then explain these details for the sake of non-natural players like me. I'm not, and never will be, a great pianist, but it is so much more enjoyable now to play with real dynamic control and to make big leaps with ease.

That "post-coital mood" comment is amazing :D

@@nunoareia27 Even though it was late 1970's, that kind of comment from a classical musician was still rather startling, however, the way he expressed that sentiment was just as refined and elegant as Browning himself. The other stunning thing about seeing him on stage was the way he always just suddenly popped out from behind the stage curtain gracefully bounding to the front of the piano. He was indeed elegance in every sense of the word.

dream world that's Chopin yep

John Browning is one of the greatest pianists I ever heard. I first heard him as a teenager in the late 70s. His program included Ravel's Sonatine and Gaspard de la Nuit. I heard him again 20+ yrs later. His program that time included the Barber Sonata. (Horowitz premiered the Barber Sonata but Barber personally chose John Browning to premiere his Piano Concerto.)

Donald Allen His recording of the Chopin Etudes were my go-to for listening/learning for so many years.

Dave Frank

I believe that above all, hands & fingers should be well-developed and *flexible* -- so that one can play comfortably both with curved fingers or with flat fingers, depending on the musical style and the musical effect that is needed...

Absolutely! I think an elastic and flexible wrist is especially essential! How could anyone master Chopin's "Black Key" Etude with a tight wrist, for example? Sándor did not agree with some of the Lhevinnes' ideas - for example, he did not believe in warming up or doing a lot of drilling or repetitive exercises before practicing the repertoire. He would say that instead of warming up the pianist should learn to "line up the fingers with the corresponding muscles in the forearm". Maybe that was adequate for HIM, but with all my own hand problems - osteoarthritis, carpal tunnel syndrome, two broken wrists, and hand surgery, I find I cannot get my fingers to play well - to achieve speed, agility and evenness - without drilling them first with Hanon, scales and a few Chopin Etudes. Rachmaninoff is supposed to have sworn by Hanon's "Virtuoso Pianist", and apparently never stopped practising it, especially in his later years when he suffered from arthritis. I think there are an infinite amount of variables when it comes to technique and every pianist must ultimately tailor his or her technique accordingly, while, as you say, bearing in mind the musical style and effect required.

Yes, fully agreed!

yes i think too much emphasis is put on hand position so long as your hand doesn't go out of its natural shape too much and is mainly supple and relaxed, the hardest thing about playing is memory and brain synapses guiding the hand to the correct chords or passages instantaneously which one needs good keyboard spacial awareness

I wonder if the Lhevinne's had a relationship with Horowitz? He was famous for the 'flat fingers' technique they taught, but I believe he was also from Kiev.

When I listen to her, for some reason it doesn't sound the same as these guys. I always felt the Russian school and its students like Joseph Rosina Daniel Pollak and Horowitz their tone sounded "choked" and covered. It's hard to explain. And when I hear people like Alexander Malofeev and Martha Argerich, they lift their arms and use the weight of the arm to creat sound rather than try to muscle it with fingers close to the keyboard.

TwelfthRoot2 where is chopin’s grave located?

Dominique Balabat Pere Lachaise Cemetery in Paris

Did you study with Syracuse at O.U. in Athens, OH? I live nearby and he was a beloved teacher and performer.

I just got better at piano the 20 minutes it took to watch this

lol?

serious question, how do you play fast with stiff and straight fingers?

Lucky bastard hahaha

Indeed, well said! In the end it's all quite personal...(though there are of course certain basic principles that are good for everybody) I found it hard to believe that Josef Lhévinne supposedly practised his octaves with books under his arms -- but judging from his amazing recording of Chopin's Octave Etude it worked very well for him!

The books I think are just to make sure it is only the wrists which are involve (up and down) in the gesture and not the elbow and forearm (which would impede a fast rebound).

The flat fingers in Argerich are very seldom, the arch or dome being to high for that. Let's say they are not curve but not flat.

I have seen that. Very good observation

Especially when he plays Mozart. He keeps his fifth finger of the right hand curved in very tightly toward the palm, then quickly releases it to play a note when it's needed. Very interesting to watch. He doesn't use this approach to the more exuberant pieces of Chopin.