Bass Traps: Pressure vs Velocity - Which one should you get? - AcousticsInsider.com

  Рет қаралды 35,626

Acoustics Insider

Acoustics Insider

Күн бұрын

►► Don't know which bass trap to get and where to put it? Get the FREE Complete Guide to Bass Traps → www.acousticsinsider.com/bass...
I've already showed you a simple way to figure out if the bass trap you are thinking about getting for your room is a pressure (tuned/resonance/membrane) trap, or a velocity trap (porous, broadband), and what that means about how they work and how to use it:
• Bass Traps: Having Tro...
But which type is actually the right one for your room?
Especially since typical velocity absorbers made from insulation material or acoustic foam don't seem to make any sense as bass traps when looking at the absorption coefficient.
Today I want to show you what it means to use pressure traps vs velocity traps in practice.
The real life pros and cons of using each, the details you only find out once you’ve thoroughly tested both, and how that fits into the bigger picture of a proper strategy for your room.
I'll then show you the two questions you need to ask yourself to figure out which approach is the right one for you.
Related blog post on Acoustics Insider:
www.acousticsinsider.com/blog...
Resources in this video:
www.acousticmodelling.com/poro...
www.acousticmodelling.com/mult...
Acoustics Insider - Acoustic treatment techniques that actually work, without all the voodoo.
www.acousticsinsider.com/
Acoustics Insider on Social Media:
/ acousticsinsider
Jesco Lohan - Mixing Engineer
jescolohan.com/

Пікірлер: 100
@gooshie3
@gooshie3 4 жыл бұрын
Aah...such a relief to hear someone who knows what they're talking about. Great content.
@jonlanghoff
@jonlanghoff 3 жыл бұрын
That one negative vote is from Dennis Foley.. :P
@infinaneek
@infinaneek Жыл бұрын
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 good one!
@jonnymillerproductions
@jonnymillerproductions 2 жыл бұрын
I am so glad I found your channel before room treatment. I don't see this in-depth info elsewhere and learn something new every video. Small room home studio here, porous traps here I come.
@PeterBatah
@PeterBatah 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for sharing your time and knowledge with us. Your presentation is clear and precise. Just what the audio doctor ordered. Keep up the great work!
@d.andresvaldes7659
@d.andresvaldes7659 4 жыл бұрын
keep up the good work man! I really appreciate it!
@spyro5484
@spyro5484 4 жыл бұрын
basstrap guide is awesome!!! thank you!
@perthomasthorsager9544
@perthomasthorsager9544 4 жыл бұрын
Wow , this was great. I am a subscriber now and finally my work towards soundnirvana is getting closer I think. Thank you sir. Just ordered 8 X 20cm deep rockwool insulation .. as a start.
@ATOMIKDOG23
@ATOMIKDOG23 2 жыл бұрын
Great to have it explained properly ....I downloaded your guide....thanks
@nirniro1
@nirniro1 5 ай бұрын
Thank you so much for this clarification. That will save me so much headache and money , I was almost about to get into membrane traps🤦🏽‍♂️
@graywyot
@graywyot 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for this super helpful video!
@RoyThompsonAudio
@RoyThompsonAudio 4 жыл бұрын
Great video dude!! The bass trap guide is incredible -- you are gonna help a lot of people!
@jorgeandreozzi4945
@jorgeandreozzi4945 Жыл бұрын
great great work!! as usual..
@lucasloud
@lucasloud 2 жыл бұрын
Jesco! Can you tell us straight up: are Dennis Foley’s diaphragmatic absorbers voodoo? Please do a whole video with your thoughts on Acoustic Fields, we need that video badly!
@hexial
@hexial 3 жыл бұрын
This is really interesting. I'm so glad I've discovered your channel! Do you plan on doing a video about how to treat very low frequencies using velocity traps as mentioned in this video?
@davidasher22
@davidasher22 3 жыл бұрын
Love this channel!
@joelrichloow1021
@joelrichloow1021 3 жыл бұрын
Omg what have I got myself into, I wanted to treat my room, so I search for help and now it feels that i’m studying rocket science. All this is insanely complicated. But your videos are the only ones that actually help me out to reach my goal!🙏🏼 Keep it up man!
@wesselingaudiodesign5031
@wesselingaudiodesign5031 3 жыл бұрын
For critical listening, Complicated? Yes and no. Not really, Just use lots of absorption.
@joelrichloow1021
@joelrichloow1021 3 жыл бұрын
@@wesselingaudiodesign5031 Yeah of coarse, but it’s insanely much information to be aware of about this topic. I got myself 4 foam bass traps from EQ Acoustics for about $100, I hear a slight improvement. But I’ll follow your advice, quantity over quality so I will build my own big thick panels which leads me to this question: What material is usually best to use for treating primarily low end but along that also improves the mid’s and high’s? Is it really rockwool that everybody else recommends? I don’t trust anybody else besides you right now😅
@joelrichloow1021
@joelrichloow1021 3 жыл бұрын
@@wesselingaudiodesign5031 Oh, I realized now that it wasn’t the guy in the video that answered to my comment, I thought it was, sorry🤣 But if you do have an answer anyway, please share it!
@wesselingaudiodesign5031
@wesselingaudiodesign5031 3 жыл бұрын
@@joelrichloow1021 Please, Don't buy foam, it doesn't work, absorption coefficient is extremely low and probably has no absorption at low frequencies. Use Rockboard 60 and diy the panels. - This is broadband. The stereo room in my old house was filled with it. I'm doing the same in the new house.. Guilford of maine for fabric covering. Thin polyfill cloth can cover the rockboard under the fabric.. wood frames. Plan for personal aesthetics.. I was hired to treat a Piano/practice room, this will have some quadratic diffusers and broadband absorption.
@wesselingaudiodesign5031
@wesselingaudiodesign5031 3 жыл бұрын
The guy in the video is Excellent!
@markp4044
@markp4044 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much. You actually put a smile my face. Because I'm in this exact situation. And a certain guy on KZfaq here is stressing me out with his videos that only catering for people with a lot of money. I guess he's a salesman at the end of the day.
@infinaneek
@infinaneek Жыл бұрын
Great videos
@QuangNguyen-nh2oc
@QuangNguyen-nh2oc 3 жыл бұрын
Amazing amount of great info! Would an acoustic guitar works as a Hemholtz resonator absorber? If so, would it absorb in the fundamental frequency range of the guitar?
4 жыл бұрын
Awesome video! :)
@plummetplum
@plummetplum 2 жыл бұрын
Are you going to do any videos on how you make your traps, plans etc? Thx
@dewaldomusic
@dewaldomusic Ай бұрын
PSI AVAA solves many issues associated with pressure traps. My room transformed after adding 5
@saardean4481
@saardean4481 3 жыл бұрын
Hey there. Would love for you to make a video on building Helmholtz resonators and how to tune them
@citadelo5ricks
@citadelo5ricks 2 жыл бұрын
I have found garment racks with stacks of 6" plastic wrapped insulation to be fantastic and moveable. My question is what about hanging MLV on a garment rack? Either in combination or alone?
@kitcondor
@kitcondor 2 жыл бұрын
I like the idea of putting a diffuser front on your porous absorbers. Is there a particular way to design that?
@EckhardRotte
@EckhardRotte 3 жыл бұрын
What about passive, disconnected (maybe electronically) bass cabs? The resonance frequency may be listet in the specs and might be adjusted by an adjustable bass reflex tube.
@CynicEidolon
@CynicEidolon 3 жыл бұрын
As an audio and solar professional, I love your analogy, sir. Haha.
4 жыл бұрын
What do you think about a live end/dead end setup for the studio room ?
@plummetplum
@plummetplum 2 жыл бұрын
Hi my room at the longest length is 3.6m is it worth having a small primitive root diffuser at the back or just have some absorption with wooden slats over them to stop the room being too dead? Thx.
@PanosLa
@PanosLa 3 жыл бұрын
This video does a great job explaining that, but I can't stop thinking of the claim about the 40Hz porous absorber. Usually, in small rooms 10-15m2 in surface, the issues are usually the 1st and second harmonic of each axial mode (hopefully the room dimension ratio gives an even distribution of the oblique and tangential modes). So, if a dimension is 3m the first axial mode is like 57Hz (ish) and the second 114Hz. How are you going to treat that 114Hz (which is usually rings most) when the quarter wavelength is like 37cm? Assuming that you put a set of porous absorbers at 37cm on both ends of this axial mode, you are losing a total of 74cm. That is almost 25% of your space. Although the challenges to building a pressure absorber (of any kind) are true, they can still have a wide Q and hit "two birds with one stone". Not exactly ideal, but if you have a "non-ideal" room, to begin with, it's pointless to assume that you will have an ideal acoustic treatment... So I am kinda thrown off by the idea that pressure absorbers are impractical. I already built my studio in a terribly wrong room for that purpose (3.1x3.4x2.8) and I managed to get very decent acoustics using mostly Helmholtz absorbers. That room was in my own house, but now I have moved (because of work) and I am planning to treat my room (in a non-destructive way... ). My design showed that I need 3.6m2 for an 80Hz Helmholtz absorber and 1.8m2 for a 160Hz one. That is not much for 30m2 of free available vertical surface that I have available (excluding doors, windows, radiators, ceiling, floor)
@dougleydorite
@dougleydorite 2 жыл бұрын
Do you have any knowledge of GIK Scopus membranes?
@PanosLa
@PanosLa 2 жыл бұрын
@@dougleydorite I just googled them. What about them?
@jamesmoore4827
@jamesmoore4827 11 ай бұрын
My brain hurt just reading this, and all I want is my hi fi system to sound good in my room! lol.
@raphaeldubois9107
@raphaeldubois9107 4 жыл бұрын
To cover down to 40Hz with a 50% coefficient you need 10 inches and to increase the effectiveness, you have to go up to about 2 feet deep so for small rooms I don't think it's as "flexible" as you said. Although, small rooms usually need velocity absorbers because they are most likely to have resonances at multiple frequencies that are close to each other (the whole low end). On the other hand, membrane traps or diaphragmatic absorbers take less space for the same frequency and will have more efficiency than velocity absorbers. Membrane traps or diaphragmatic absorbers can also be designed to work with larger Q factors.
@xpulsar
@xpulsar Жыл бұрын
Totally! I think the 40hz claim he is stating in this video is very off from all of the actual technical research done by some very educated research departments. BBC , RCA etc..
@storiesforsuccess3102
@storiesforsuccess3102 2 жыл бұрын
Can anyone help me with this… In regards to recording (not mixing) where would one put the diffusers? If the front wall is the wall I’m facing when I’m on the mic. (Assuming walls are thoroughly covered with velocity panels.)
@christophermorgan2485
@christophermorgan2485 2 жыл бұрын
Can you please comment on Output's new bass traps? They look amazing, but it makes me wonder if they actually work...
@justinbraun8003
@justinbraun8003 2 жыл бұрын
PSI Avaa 20 is a pressure trap that circumvents all of these issues apart from cost.
@perrysmiles60
@perrysmiles60 Ай бұрын
Hello Master Jesco, In my case, it's for a home theatre and I don't have the ability or equipment to do measurements as you mention in this video. And because my home theatre is also my living room, corner bass traps are not ideal. So if I'm to use made from a supplier, rigid fibreglass panels (6 lbs/cubic foot) covered with an acoustic tissue, can I treat my front wall with 5 or 6 inch thick panels of 2' x 4', placing 2 behind my L & R mains and 2 behind my large screen TV, all evenly spaced as a good start to treating my space? And will this control necessary low to mid frequencies to help improve my listening experience? I cannot treat side wall reflections because of my layout... only front wall, back wall and ceiling. I do have a thick rug on the floor between my MLP and the centre channel. My living room space is 20' W x 25' L x 12' H. I'm running a 5.1.4 set-up. Your advice would be Greatly appreciated. Anyone reading and that has experience on the topic, please feel free to share your comments as well on my situation. Cheers to all my fellow enthusiasts! 🙂
@couchcamperTM
@couchcamperTM 3 жыл бұрын
Ok this video convinced me I need another hobby or headphones xD
@sickmessiah
@sickmessiah 5 ай бұрын
I wonder if passive radiators could be built into a box and tuned for bass absorption.
@flawlessbeautyil
@flawlessbeautyil 2 жыл бұрын
Hola Hermano. What is the best pressure trap? Helmholz? membrane? diaphragmatic?
@staffanolofsson8342
@staffanolofsson8342 4 жыл бұрын
You talk about the depth of the trap is important, but what about an air gap between the trap and the corner? Some say that it's enough whith 15 cm of actual trap, but it's important that there is a big air gap between the trap and the corner. Is that true?
@laaldonk4357
@laaldonk4357 3 жыл бұрын
is there anywhere else to asscess the guide? ive gone thru the steps twice with a 3 day span with no luck
@snapascrew
@snapascrew 3 жыл бұрын
A tube trap is a velocity trap then? (ie: ASC tube trap)
@kentwood2914
@kentwood2914 2 жыл бұрын
Is a diaphragmatic absorber a pressure absorber which is a resonance absorber, which is a membrane trap?
@anttiniku5223
@anttiniku5223 2 жыл бұрын
Great approach to bass trapping that makes a lot of sense. What is your take to constructing the entire walls for handling low frequency and reflection control? Philip Newell presents some of the wall designs in his book about building recording studios. Typically you would have several layers of materials / air (e.g. sandwiched drywall with dead sheet in between, porous absorption, dead sheet membranes etc., which is not tuned so keeping it intentionally lossy to have a broader band effect.
@GurvanBHC7
@GurvanBHC7 Жыл бұрын
Hey, the most broadband TRUE bass trap is Slat resonator (idealy all your front wall with your speaker build in the resonator). For targeting not just one narrow frequency, you can angle the resonator on the outside to target more frequency. Please read the paper of « AndyMacDoor », a french acousticien who has study these trap for about 7 years and now he working on huge french studio and also small home studio and all his theory work in real word. You just need Google traduction :)
@C--A
@C--A Жыл бұрын
@@GurvanBHC7 Hi get in touch with AndyMacDoor as you seem to know him. And get him to send Jesco his slat resonator and also his other products - diffusers etc. So we can see if they actually do perform better than similar equivalent products on the market. His acoustic room treatment products on his website do look very interesting unique. But we need detailed measurements from Jesco to determine if they actually work as claimed.
@hamooddyy
@hamooddyy 2 жыл бұрын
Wat is your opinion about ekustik bass trap they claim it absorbs from 40 to 80 hz!
@WinslowOfSouris
@WinslowOfSouris 3 жыл бұрын
Hi Jesco, first off I really like your practical approach to acoustic treatment. Most of us have to work with what we have rather than being able to build perfect rooms from scratch. I have a question about flow resistivity: at 1:50 in this video, as you adjust the absorber thickness you also change the flow resistivity value. Is there somewhere someone without a masters degree in physics can look to better understand that? I just want to model some very simple traps, but if 100mm is 10,000 pa/m2, but 200mm is 8000, and 300 is 5000 for the same material, how am *I* supposed to figure things like that out? All these calculators require a flow resisivity value, so how do I get that for my material? I can get the weight per m3 (which you've also mentioned elsewhere), but how does that translate for using something like the acoustic modelling calculator you often use? I don't if you'll see the comment on a year+ old video, but figured I'd ask anyway. Maybe someone in the community can help as well! All the best!
@nikolaudio
@nikolaudio 8 ай бұрын
If your gas flow resistivity is lets say 3000pa*s/m2, you MAX out the absorption coefficient of the absorber somewhere around 60cm thick. IF you take that same material and make it now 100cm thick, it wont absorb anymore/any deeper of the frequencies. In order to absorb anything deeper, you need to select another material with a LOWER gas flow resistivity, and THEN you could go up to 100cm thick and it WILL absorb deeper/more. Thats why as he lowers the gas flow resistivity, he increases the thickness of the material because they are related in that aspect^. There is nothing stoping you however from having a 10 foot thick absorber of a 10,000pa*s/m2 material - its just pointless.
@carolinegaudeoso6798
@carolinegaudeoso6798 3 жыл бұрын
Do you have more info on velocity absorber? I am still kind of questioning how to reach 40Hz only with porous material. Great explanation btw!
@sonnenklang6925
@sonnenklang6925 2 жыл бұрын
Maybe replace a roomwall with an velo. absorber :)
@mikemcguinness1304
@mikemcguinness1304 Жыл бұрын
You can't. Jesco is talking shit
@LQ-gaming
@LQ-gaming 3 жыл бұрын
ALREADY have two orders of base traps, dang ! :P
@painstruck01
@painstruck01 2 жыл бұрын
brilliant video. you've convinced me to pay someone who knows what they're doing, to do it for me.
@danyar91
@danyar91 2 жыл бұрын
what is flow resistivity ?
@joker927
@joker927 2 жыл бұрын
I have a 25db room mode at 100hz. It's very annoying as I cannot move my listening position nor my speakers. It sounds like without a major investment I might not have any options.
@christianmeza4529
@christianmeza4529 2 жыл бұрын
What brands carry velocity traps?
@frankroobaert808
@frankroobaert808 Жыл бұрын
I’m in office acoustics and recently my son asked me to treat his home music studio, I learned a lot from your videos and it’s a totally different business but we managed thanks to YOU !
@jmpsmash
@jmpsmash 4 жыл бұрын
What would it take to build a velocity trap that goes down to 40Hz?
@ClintMoody
@ClintMoody 4 жыл бұрын
About 7 ft of absorptive materials
@sh91899
@sh91899 3 жыл бұрын
Quarter wave, which is location of max velocity from the wall, is 7 feet but that doesn’t mean you need 7 feet of porous material. You can use 4-8” of material positioned 7 feet off the wall. If you place them diagonal across a corner then you’d attach the absorbers 5 feet from the corner along both adjacent walls. The center of the absorber would be 7 feet from the corner but the diagonal would give you broadband bass absorption because the trapping frequency increases as you move towards the wall in both directions. Like he says in the video, it’s not practical for smaller studios and could be pretty expensive.
@plummetplum
@plummetplum 2 жыл бұрын
@@sh91899 At that point it's time for headphones and Sonarworks calibration software.
@sh91899
@sh91899 3 жыл бұрын
So with a 12x18x8’room and a $5000 budget... $2500 for an AVAA and $2500 for porous first, second, and ceiling reflections and diffusers on the back wall (12’ wall)? AVAA is 14-150Hz and placed in the corner behind the sub which is located off the corner 3-4 feet.
@dougleydorite
@dougleydorite 2 жыл бұрын
Have you tried the AVAA?
@sh91899
@sh91899 2 жыл бұрын
I have not, but I understand the concept/construction and reviews say it works magic.
@dougleydorite
@dougleydorite 2 жыл бұрын
@@sh91899 I have not seen any acoustician recommend it and the two reviews on KZfaq are a bit “sponsored” feeling and the before and after on those vids don’t show hardly any difference. But, if you go to forums, so many people say that it is a huge difference and definitely worth the money
@sh91899
@sh91899 2 жыл бұрын
@@dougleydorite Yeah, the face converts the velocity wave into pressure and a mic feeds directly into the amp then driver without any DSP which inverts to cancel the pressure out. I'm considering making my own... (MSEE)
@pnkk787
@pnkk787 3 жыл бұрын
He's the Vsauce of acoustics
@eddieruddock7014
@eddieruddock7014 Жыл бұрын
Or is he 🤔
@CyberBeep_kenshi
@CyberBeep_kenshi 2 жыл бұрын
The more i hear the less i am inclined to start lol. Its my livingroom, no room for huge traps lol Is a big L shaped couch a good absorber? 😆
@amosluyk
@amosluyk 3 жыл бұрын
Now I'm thinking I'll buy a really great set of headphones and headphone amp....
@joeblow1229
@joeblow1229 2 жыл бұрын
Man this guys gets it. Finally someone saying what needs to be said. Newsflash: this is all physics, and you can’t argue against this. You wanna absorb bass below 100hz? Good luck. It’s just reality. Unless your panels are 5 feet thick ( literally).
@matsudakodo
@matsudakodo 2 жыл бұрын
Under 100 Hz, just use subs and EQ. Much more effective, and...bass!
@3DaysTillGrace
@3DaysTillGrace 2 жыл бұрын
EQ won’t reduce the ringing in the time domain. The best thing to do is try to improve the room a bit with bass traps, and then further improve the frequency response with multiple subs and EQ.
@matsudakodo
@matsudakodo 2 жыл бұрын
@@3DaysTillGrace absorption is not very effective under 100 Hz, which is why subs and EQ are the most powerful solution.
@3DaysTillGrace
@3DaysTillGrace 2 жыл бұрын
@@matsudakodoabsorption-style bass traps might not be super effective, but at least they help a little (which means that they help in both the frequency and the time domain). Multiple subs and EQ only helps in the frequency domain. The best solution is to use resonance-tuned bass traps since they are more effective than regular absorption-style bass traps. Just to be clear, regardless of if the person is using any room treatment or not, I think 2 subs and maybe even EQ is a must. I’m just saying that room treatment AND multiple subs is best because the room treatment reduces ringing in the time domain. Multiple subs and EQ can create a somewhat flat frequency response in a couple listening positions, but it can’t make the bass fast or clear in the time domain. I hate muddy bass so much that I’d rather hear less bass than muddy bass.
@matsudakodo
@matsudakodo 2 жыл бұрын
No disagreement that a combined approach is best. I am doing that now, with absorption effective down to 80 Hz with GIK 244 traps. I don't plan on doing any tuned traps as those are more location-specific and it's a really small room.
@nkenchington6575
@nkenchington6575 2 жыл бұрын
Fuck me, just buy headphones!
@davelassell
@davelassell 2 жыл бұрын
FFAAAAACCTTTSSS!!!!!! I mean you're crushing my hopes and dreams, but I'd rather start with the truth instead of pretending that things will just work by magic.
@JesusChristSaves2024
@JesusChristSaves2024 4 жыл бұрын
When it comes to bass management, Bass traps aren't all that effective and definitely aren't worth the cost and space. The solution is relatively simple, Is cheaper and most importantly is actually effective. That is multi sub-woofer set up and DSP correction.
Bass Traps: The One Problem No Bass Trap Can Fix - AcousticsInsider.com
10:27
Bass Traps: Why They Aren't Actually "Bass Traps" - AcousticsInsider.com
12:23
Каха и суп
00:39
К-Media
Рет қаралды 6 МЛН
Cool Items! New Gadgets, Smart Appliances 🌟 By 123 GO! House
00:18
123 GO! HOUSE
Рет қаралды 17 МЛН
Clowns abuse children#Short #Officer Rabbit #angel
00:51
兔子警官
Рет қаралды 73 МЛН
Acoustic Panels - What & Where
3:35
Acoustic Geometry
Рет қаралды 1,1 МЛН
Speaker Size vs Room Size: Looking At The Science - AcousticsInsider.com
11:05
How BASS Works (In Rooms) - Acoustic Geometry
4:18
Acoustic Geometry
Рет қаралды 333 М.
All About Diffusion
12:32
Ethan Winer
Рет қаралды 398 М.
New Studio: Is my room too small to get good sound? - AcousticsInsider.com
14:45
Get Good Bass: Bass Traps 101 & Multi-Sub
1:15:11
Audioholics
Рет қаралды 95 М.