So basically what Ian and C&R did with WW1 machine guns? Very cool!

It would be interesting to run this or a similar test when the Finns are visiting for Desert Brutality. They are not as set on the AR manual of arms and they are accustomed to rock and lock magazines.

How do well do AR people handle other battle rifles? Actual title

Isn't this test skewed towards which gun handles most like an AR-15? If you had shooters who where more familiar with all the guns it would probably give a better result as it would eliminate the familiarity factor and actually compare ergonomics.

This is pure familiarity. Get 5 people who are proficient in each rifle, and compare each set of 5 people to each other.

This is not an ergonomics test, this is more how easy some rifles are for ppl that more or less, never used them before. The test should be called" If i found this gun, how quick would i be the first time i use it". None the less, an entertaining video!

I’d like to see this test run again with a groups of shooter not familiar with the AR platform- say, a group of dominantly AK shooters.

Little known fact about the M-14 that could have helped your shooters (but perhaps skewed the test), with the bolt closed as you had it, it is actually possible to shove a mag straight in without trying to rock it. The front mag catch is actually the back of the recoil spring guide and has a slot in it to allow for some movement when a mag is inserted. With the bolt forward and therefore the least tension on that part, you can shove a mag straight in like it was an AR with a good hefty smack. Even my dad who was trained on the M-14 had no idea you could do that until I pointed it out to him after I got to take it apart the first few times. Provided you're used to it or rifles similar to it, it's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be, though admittedly, the AR has a better layout for today's way of thinking and movement. Edit- Come to think of it, it's almost a shame you don't have a pistol grip converted Saiga .308. As proud caretaker of one, it's a very interesting creature that could probably stand at least toe to toe with the FAL in many regards, but has all the familiarity of the normal AK, plus a manual bolt hold-open, assuming it was left in after the conversion as mine was. I did have to shorten the lever slightly to account for the new grip position, but it's proven a useful feature at least at the local shooting range with the standing rule of all guns not currently being fired must be stored muzzle up, action locked open in the provided rifle or pistol racks.

_looks at G3_ Look how they massacred my boy.

I feel like this test could have been improved by having someone properly familiar with each gun establish a baseline of what is possible "with practice". As it is, the familiarity factor in this test really plays havoc with properly quantifying differences because, while we all agree that the AR's ergonomics are the best of the bunch, it's pretty obvious that people are spending a bunch of time having to un-train and re-train themselves on the clock. I don't disagree with any of the qualitative conclusions, but the numbers imply a level of precision that I don't think is warranted from this test.

"A level playing field" "Experienced AR shooters" *Puts guns with AR ergos in the test* Could've stopped after the introduction, yo.

“The internet hates the fal” I don’t know what part of the internet this guy is from but that’s not true.. at all

I am nostalgic. The long reach for the charging handle, the shunk sound it makes coming back, smacking it out of it's notch and feeling the rifle jump. The HK will always have my heart.

I'd be much more interested in this dataset if the shooters had 10-15 dry runs on each rifle prior to timing them.

I'm really enjoying how some unexpected/interesting results led to curiosity and discussion as opposed to the excuse making that I've seen from others. This attitude of honest representation is what leads to trust of this channel and has consistently earned my trust. Thank you!

Nice effort, but the shooters' experience and familiarity with the AR platform massively skews the results to the point where you can't draw any meaningful conclusion other than American shooters fumble with non-AR ergonomics... which we already know. You're not testing the inherent design "speed" of those ergonomics until you level the field with your shooters - find shooters who have no experience on an AR as well.

Familiarity with any particular rifle would likely negate most/all the differences in ergos/times.

That M14 with the camo is really great looking

I think this video demonstrated the validity of AR bias.

(Re)loading a FAL is a lot easier if one tilts the rifle to one side. I had never handled an assault rifle before my national service and had less trouble than your accomplished shooters after the instructor demonstrated it to us once.

Do any of them know how to quickly rack a charging handle properly? Noticed on the G3 and some of the other guns, at least some of the shooters were trying to pull a very stiff charging handle with thumb and a finger or two. That's slow and awkward compared to just slapping the handle with the meaty part of your palm. Norwegian military trained me on the G3, just place the meaty part of your palm in front of the handle and slam it back. No need to waste time grabbing the handle with your fingers.

as someone trained on the G3... you guys where very akward in the handeling of it. As in, Raw recruit first try akward

The only thing this test demonstrated was something I've known all along. if you train with a weapon you're proficient with it. I've trained with the M1 garand and the G3. I have never trained with the AR platform. I would suck in a speed trial with an AR and would do massively better with either the M1 or the G3. no big surprise .

I see a lot of people pointing out that shooter experience with ARs and lack of experience with non-ARs probably skewed the results. I think that’s definitely a good observation and it’s not really anything that IRTV is trying to hide. Pretty sure it was even mentioned in the opening comments that the ARs will probably do well because that’s what people are familiar with. This isn’t a perfectly scientific test, it’s entertaining anecdotes that are a good representation of what it looks like if you don’t have a lot of training or experience with things that aren’t ARs. This is probably what reality looks like for most of America today. So if you have only trained on ARs and think a G3 is cool, realize it’s going to take a lot of time to get to the level you are at with your AR.

I’m not a fan of the “even playing field” statement. While entertaining, it only proves that AR shooters can manipulate AR ergo guns faster. If you had the same test with bullpup shooters, the MDR would be best, or with AK shooters, the rock and lock that were the bottom three would be on top. Hopefully some of the other tests will be more on shooting the weapons, than reloading manipulation.

XCR Finally getting some attention. LOVE my XCR.

I am so happy. Series like this one are the reasons why I love In Range. I wish that that the whole gun community was as smart as you all

Great idea for a series - I like it. Might be fun to take a group of primarily AK shooters and run the same drills on the same rifles.

Strange that the 3 so called slow rifles are the only World wide Battle proven rifles on the table. I know some of the other rifles have seen some service, But not on a scale that the FAL/G3/M14 have seen.Still enjoyed the video.

Fascinating. I still like my M1A and I still want an FN-FAL.

It's not an InRangeTV without lefty shooters ;)

I'm actually not surprised by this at all, strait in with a magwell and a side charging handle is a very fast cold start setup. Great video man!

Not at all surprised that the G3 did as badly as it did, it's probably my favorite Cold War battle rifle but it's also completely unintuitive if you haven't got any serious practice into it.

- this was a test of "If someone who is most familiar with ARs picks up these weapons, how fast could they put them into action" and not much else.

Part of the FAL's failing could have been that it had an inch-pattern flip-out charging handle instead of the giant metric knob. Not defending the gun, just wanted to throw in my two cents. Very interesting results, excited to see the rest of the tests!

Pity you guys didn't have the original M1 Garand with 8-round en bloc clips. Your shooters wouldn't have to struggle with rock and lock magazines. It would also be interesting to see the comparison of that concept to the more modern guns.

Never underestimate the FAL/FN SLR. It's a beast.

on FAL one side of the magwell is shallower than the other, which can be used to advantage

Karl, you really know how to scratch that itch

Very cool to see all these folks together.

I don't see how the results credits or discredits the rifles since most of the shooter are used to an ar15.

Really cool series

Outstanding concept and execution, this sort of content is why I am a subscriber and huge fan of InrangeTV. As someone once said "facts don't care about your feelings" and you continue to do great empirical testing that pokes holes in a lot of the common firearm myths.

While the G3 is without a doubt slower than most if not all of these weapons I'd say the test is a bit flawed because inserting a magazine into a closed bolt is not something that most people trained on the platform would do. It takes a lot more effort than locking the charging handle back and inserting the mag. The test does seem to show that the further you get from the Stoner style the slower most American shooters will be with the platform. The winner was a surprise though.

Love that bit if concrete thinking when Karl couldn't parse "I think the shooters are the winners" at the 0:59 mark. Your spectrum is showing K-man. It's why we love ya though.

I'm rooting for the Brownell and the M14

Surprised no one has said anything about the montage music - seemed super out of place on InRange

Damn, that shooting montage was actually really fun and relaxing to watch. This is my happy place, with soft rock and the sounds of cycling bolts.

very excited for this series

Paper stats are great and all, and they certainly point towards the venerable AR platform with that super sexy Brownells on the table, but I'm rooting for whatever FAL variant you guys have.

Fun fact: Three of those rifles were (one still is) used by the Portuguese Military. And the "little brother" of a fourth rifle is now being adopted.

From a statistics standpoint, you can minimize skewed data by shuffling the order in which each shooter shoots each rifle. With each attempt of a "stage", the shooter will become more comfortable/practiced, thus shortening their time. This puts the first couple guns at a disadvantage (unfamiliar gun AND unfamiliar stage), yet the last few guns have an advantage. I recommend shuffling the order for each shooter to maintain consistency.

I'd say that the main problem is not the ergonomics of the guns but rather that the shooters are unfamiliar with the platforms. If the shooters are more familiar with AR-platforms it is only natural that they will do better with those. And more importantly for the poor G3, everyone in the video did it wrong. You're supposed to to pull the handle back, lock it, then insert the mag and then do a HK-slap. ;)

@3:20 who the heck hates the right arm of the free world?

I think this is a great data gathering program. It's very informative and educational to learn from.

I find this kind of testing quite interesting. Looking forward to the rest.

I've been an XCR-L owner for over 10 years. Being US military trained, it was easy to transition from the AR to the XCR-L. Left side charging handle, the BHO down on the magwell and trigger guard, and a 45° select throw. The manual arms is more efficient then the AR. My GOTH carbine is the XCR-L in both 5.56 and 7.62X39.

XCR has great ergonomics. I was expecting it to get 3rd place or better.

I absolutely love this series so far. Very interesting idea that fits mixing the InRangeTV experimentation video format and the competition video format together. Can't wait to see more!

You basicly just tested how close the ergos are to the ar15 you are used to and how beginner friendly the ergos are

The heat may have been a factor, but the official reason why both ArmaLite and the Dutch (independently of one another) experimented with the placement of the charging handle as we know it today was because the early 5.56 prototype ARs showed stress cracks in the upper receiver at the front and rear of the charging handle slot under the carry handle after high round counts. While there had been complaints and memos about charging handle heating pretty much since the charging handle was put there in the first place (the first three AR-10 prototypes had traditional reciprocating, side-mounted charging handles), it was the upper receiver cutout being a potential failure point that finally gave the design teams the push they needed to change the charging design.

This is an amazing new series.

3:26 Even the M fourte....NOOO

Should be interesting to see future tests as shooters get more comfortable with each. Saw a few clips where the person put in the mag, dropped the bolt and was like, "what's next?..... oh yea!" Bang

I love the M1-a but I understand every knock against it. Basically a 2nd gen semiautomatic rifle trying to keep up with 3rd generation guns (G3 and FAL).

Awesome video I'm super excited for the rest of this series! Are you guys saving the AR-15/AK-74 control data for the conclusion? I was really curious how the AK in particular did since while it is still rock-and-lock, it is a bit more positive IMO than most (all? I don't have any experience with M14s and FALs) of the others in the test. I know with my G3 clone it is a little vague when you have the nose in deep enough and it is a lot easier to do the old rock-and-not-lock than with an AK.

This is the content I subscribe for. while 2GACM, 2G, etc. are sometimes interesting, Empirical testing with reliable data is really hard to get in this field is priceless

Excellent video and tests! Being a bit older, I was most interested in the older design, 'classic' rifles. They were basically in a separate class, given they are much older designs--this also establishes that the AR10 pattern was a true game-changer. Being an M14 fan, I was gratified to see how it performed in *this* test. I have no doubt, though, that it will come up short in subsequent tests.

Experience with a type of firearm makes a huge difference. For example in the G3 , the gun I was trained with in the Greek Army, the correct sequence is 1st lock the charging handle back 2. get the mag in front first 3.slap the handle and you are good to go. If you don't do that , getting the full mag in the gun is difficult. It is slower that an AR , but not that slow.

This is one of the coolest video's I've seen on this channel. Awesome job

FG-42 is missing, so test is for determining witch one is the 2nd best! (My money is on the retro AR-10)

You said that the 3 worst performing rifles all had rock and lock magazines. This is incorrect. The G3 doesn't. Furthermore, to properly load a G3, the bolt should be locked to the rear position, then the loaded magazine inserted, then release the bolt forward freely from its locked opened position. I didn't see anyone properly operating the rifle.

Stoked for this video series. I always wanted a by the numbers comparison on different rifle archetypes like this. Very interested to see how the Brownells will stack up to a more modern iteration of itself especially.

M14 had a faster cold start time than the FAL FAL fans on suicide watch

@inrangetv Do you find the AK rock and lock easier than the other rock and lock mags shown here?

This was a good way to get me to check out Matt and Gary's stuff. Good dudes!

3:20 well that’s news to me. The FAL is beloved by all I thought

The issue with getting the mag in the FAL is no one was doing it quite right. It only works for right handers, but, if you notice the magazine well hangs lower on the right than the left, if you cant the forward right corner of magazine very slightly towards the inner wall of the right side of the mag well, it goes right in with no fumbling. Of course, that feature, and the left side charging handle are completely lost benefits to lefties. So is the bolt release, which is in the perfect spot for a righty to sweep their left hand thumb down as soon as the mag locks in. Also, everyone always wants to release the magazine like an AK, using the the thumb of the mag-changing hand. Nearly all righties can push the mag release forward with their trigger finger and the mag will either drop free or can be knocked free when you bring up the next mag. I'm gonna lose my mind if you all try to change the FAL mag like an AK and then complain about how it's slow.

THIS is why I am here! I love content like this. Great work and keep it coming!

The rock and lock is a bit awkward, but provides a clear advantage in that you can load the mags all He way to brim and never have to worry about them not being seated properly and dropping out of the gun. You’ll often see newer shooters letting the mags fall out of ARs. While newer shooters also struggle with putting in AK mags, at least they’ll never drop em on the ground.

Why is the FAL ‘hated’ by the internet? Have I been living under a rock?

The only gun among these tested I have fired in the SLR, the British version of the FN FAL. Handle the gun at the balance point (just in front of the magazine well) with your weak hand, hold it into the shoulder all the time; handle magazine and sights with your strong hand, cock the rifle with your weak hand when in the ready, then aim, safety off, fire.

Not surprised that lack of familiarity and the rock and lock mags were issues. Give most shooters today a heel release handgun. I let one of my buddies shoot my Walther P1 and it took him a second to drop the mag.

I think Robinson actually shows how you could still improve the ar today the charging handle in the front really allows to cycle the action faster without getting out of position. Of course you have to overcome problems how you would keep the rifle sealed up from dirt

It would be interesting if you got a "professional" for each gun to compare as well. The main one I am curious about is the mdr. As how bull pups are not widely used in the us.

This is a great idea, can't wait for more!

i wonder how the learning curves went for the different rifles? my guess is that with the top 3 guns the spread from first try to third try was very close, while the bottom 3 probably saw a healthy improvement 1st to 3rd attempt

I have the same problem with buddies that I shoot with, they are all familiar with the AR platform give them a rifle that they have to rock and lock a magazine in and they have problems.

Always treat every gun as if it was loaded and never have any parts of your body placed in front of the muzzle. At least I was told so in the german army some thirty years ago. Numbnuts! If we had done so in that days, we would have carried the gun over the obstacle course - part by part and in full combat gear.

Love the new vid series idea! More info collabs, group challenges etc.

Would love to see a video where you guys do pull random joes from home depot and lowes (or just new shooters in general) and get their impressions over a bunch of different platforms

This probably would have been fairer if the shooters were inexperienced with all guns, or if the five shooters were familiar with five different guns, it’s like comparing five cars and only one is an automatic

Awesome! I've been waiting for a series like this

Excellent premise, can't wait for more videos :)

Beside the unfamiliarity of rock and lock, fal's bad time was due to folding charging handle. Any body who is familiar with ak would have a quite good time on m14. Considering that MDR is a bullpup which turns their unfamiliarity to 10 it had quite good time. I think it's charging handle should only have one function, not of locking back which I do agree can be remedied with training. But now the question is how the people who are well versed on ak will do on this test ? Or a flared magwell is inherently superior. When it comes to charging handles swiss beer keg wins.

I'd like to see a comparison in their sights also. Not only does loading take time but the next biggest thing would be acquiring the sight picture and getting on target.

Gary looked very relaxed whilst handling the rifles.

Super happy not to hear metal or hard Rock on a gun related video. Greatly appreciated change of pace.

I'm here as Robinson Arms sent a link. Cool test yall are doing here

The complete proliferation of AR platforms skewed this test towards anything that shares their ergonomics, sure none of these people were familiar with these particular rifles but I believe you mentioned that most of them were familiar with other AR platforms and that training and muscle memory carries over. Same thing with the M14/M1A, if you did this outside the US I doubt that it'd perform as well. That's such an American rifle that it's probably not even a conscious bias on your guys part.