I will not hear this blasphemy to laser ball-turret Wolverine. He carries a briefcase with extra ammo so he can slap people with it.

unseen Wolverine is holding a magazine for the AC in the left hand

I really liked the side by side comparisons. IMO the Thunderbolt got the biggest cosmetic upgrade

One thing I appreciate about all the new designs is that the weapons are actually on the correct scale for what they represent. I know that was a pitfall of creating in-game stats for another IP's concept art back in the day, but seeing that dinky pistol on the OG Griffin and having to buy in that it's a PPC was laughable, or the Shadow Hawk having that massive cannon on it's arm, and "oh, it's just a Medium Laser." The new designs did a great job of representing what they actually bring to the table while keeping a lot of the spirit of the OG designs.

Regarding the Wolverine briefcase/ammo pack. Remember that the Hatchetman is also featured and at the time there were no rules for hatchets. People just assumed it had a permanently attached club or something. Of course it's a legacy from Dougram, where apparently the model carried a spare ammo pack for its gun and I assume that it was yet another thing BT at the time glossed over. I recall people making house rules saying that the Wolverine had another 20 spare rounds, took a round to reload and couldn't use its arm until the ammo was either dropped or used to reload. There are mentions in the fluff that certain mechs can be quickly reloaded, by other mechs in the field if necessary. That's why the TR3025 had ammo carriers and coolant trucks. It seems the intent was to add the option to step back and cool down your mech or refresh your ammo when needed.

The original Locust was a small 1 metre tall security robot from the anime Crusher Joe.

For me, I did not really grow up on Battletech apart from MechAssault. As a result I almost entirely prefer most of the updates, except for the ones that are basically identical. They have a much closer and IMO more aesthetically appealing art style. There's a few exceptions though, the Archer, Shadow Hawk, and Wolverine look awesome to me (Edit, D: thats my favorite of the bunch)

Anthony Scroggins and CGL have done a great job with re-imagining the unseen 'mechs.

I will still vote for my classic unseens.

From Macross/Robotech in order, we have a VF-1A (Stinger), VF-1S (Wasp), VF-1S + FAST Pack (Phoenix Hawk), Phalanx Destroid (Rifleman), VF-1A Armored Pack (Crusader), Spartan Destroid (Archer), Tomahawk Destroid (Warhammer), Zentradi Gaulg Officer's Pod (Marauder). All of these are timeless classics, Super Dimension Fortress Macross was a major ground-breaking series that was poorly handled here in the west, but it's spirit does live on through Battletech.

The Briefcase on the wolverine hand is supposed to be an AC 5 Magazine.

Wolverine losing the ball turret has been the biggest slap in the face when it comes to the redesigns

The PPC on the new Griffon tips the scale in its favour IMHO

If you want to compare the "originals" you should check out the plastic kits originally sold with Battle tech. They were 1/200 Macross Valkyries and Destroids and 1/144 Fang of the Sun Dougram.

new crusader looks like it has DD chest implants

Good content…keep em coming. Gen X here, and started playing CBT in middle school 35+ years ago (dating myself to explain my perspective). Regardless of your individual tastes, It’s worth newer fans’ time to search some of the old anime stuff that FASA used, before all the Harmony Gold legal drama. For historical appreciation if nothing else. Crusher Joe (locust…and I still think OG locust is the best) Fang of the Sun Dougram mechs (shadowhawk, griffin, wolverine, t-bolt, battlemaster, scorpion, etc) Of course Macross/Robotech veritechs, (stinger/wasp/Phoenix hawk), destroids (Warhammer/rifleman/longbow/archer) and the BAMF Glaug (marauder)

You cannot grok the art design of the originals without seeing them in their original media. That means watching _Crusher Joe_ for the Locust and _Fang of the Sun Dougram_ for the Griffin, Shadow Hawk, Battlemaster, Wolverine, Goliath, and Thunderbolt in addition to _SDF Macross_ for the rest. You'll see that weapon systems in the source materials were omitted or misinterpreted (e.g. Warhammer loses its torso missiles and head MGs, missiles across the board are actually how Rockets are used in the game, obvious guns are labelled as lasers for no good reason), as are the ability to take damage (everyone gets one-shot, including named characters from time to time) because BT uses tanks as its paradigm of play when the source material is either jets or infantry (neither known for durability under fire; being able to limp home isn't the same as no-selling direct hits). Then there are the WTF mistakes. Several designs take what are clearly smoke launchers (Locust, Shadow Hawk, etc.) and call them guns, lasers, or SRMs. That Thunderbolt, in reality, has a rocket pod and an autocannon as per source material (and piss-weak armor). So do most _Dougram_ designs, with the title unit (the Shadow Hawk in BT) being one of the few exceptions (and it only had TWO guns instead of one as well as far superior armor). Weapon placement is also WTF because of rules issues. The Marauder's big gun is clearly CT-mounted, but you can't do that in BT by the book hence it's either RT or LT, a problem that persists with the M2. Designs that clearly use hand-held weapons (which are also used in melee in the source material) don't Because Reasons, and designs that have hand weapons in the game don't have proper mountings that would prevent them being shot off before being used Because Reasons. Because of all these legacy issues, the clear direction that the game went and is going (walking tank game) had to deal with analog spaghetti code in the form of all sorts of bullshit workarounds to Make It Make Sense when the smart thing to do is to just rotate the designs out of the game permanently in favor of replacements that do the same job but don't have these problems. A snap decision over 40 years ago is now a lasting headache that either requires a significant rules revision, a significant content revision, or both to permanently fix- and none of these options will make everyone happy.

Don’t forget Alex Iglesias’s designs for Piranha Games. Some of them are damn good in their own right. I love his Raven and Atlas. Edit: New Phoenix Hawk wins by a mile.

I haven't seen the new Unseen art, so thank you for showcasing it... it is pretty good IMO. I kind of wish they made the feet bigger like the OG unseen, as that and the legs seem to be some of the bigger differences to me.

I do love the older "retro-futuristic" look of most mechs but I'm thankful for all the new designs. You'd think the ones that could be reproduced would have gone through new iterations as per their timeline in lore.

You weren't showing the original unseen Archer, but a second, reseen version. The original Archer had its cockpit on top, as it can be seen on the old CityTech box. Together with the Warhammer those were the most menacing mechs of the original mech set.

I’m a fairly new player but I am totally in love with the classic BT art style. The old designs have a sort of awkwardness to them, with lanky limbs and oversized guns, that’s just really charming to me. I appreciate that most of the Iron Wind Metals designs are more in line with the classic style. I think the new designs are perfectly serviceable, but most mechs feel overdesigned to me. With all of the added detail and blockiness, I find that many mechs sort of blend together and aren’t very distinguishable. They don’t have the charm that the classic designs have.

The Marauder is really awesome, I would totally field a lance of both unseen and new classic Marauders, with even more Marauder IIC filling up the rest of the lance

Our unit favorites were the Thunderbolt (we retrofitted ours like the Eridani version) and a salvaged Wolverine-K (it was an absolute menace to vehicles since the SRM was able to cause all sorts of critical damage).

I generally like most of the redesigns - and there are usually just few minor elements that do not quite like, but I struggle to find anything I outright hate. The ball turret on the Wolverine, for example is something I miss in the new design. I always saw it as something similar to the hull autocannon of modern attack helicopters and found it to be a nice feature. Also - the thing I find missing in the revised Locust (and Cicada redesign as well) is the characteristic combined leg/arm joint that was was very characteristic for these mechs - with hull basically "hanging" from leg mounts. Instead we have a more conventional "chicken" design. But these are really small gripes if I'm being honest.

I like the new Locust better because the cockpit orientation actually makes sense.

RE: The Shadow Hawk - The Mini had the same circular LRM pod that came with the Griffin, and the full-kit Dougram had it in the anime. It looked good with it. I personally liked to pretend that the Pod housed both the LRM-5 and the SRM-2 together, instead of that goofy panel showing the LRM in the right breast, and the smoke dischargers being the SRM-2. It especially worked for upgraded designs later.

Knowing the entomology of the Unseen. I'm glad Battletech puts its own spin on it. Growing up, people who weren't familiar with Battletech called it "The one that ripped off Robotech". (Technically, Battletech shares more DNA with Dougram, but whateves.) So I'm glad Battletech was able to find its own voice when reimaging the unseen.

I needed this video. I have been away from Battletech for a number of years (3060TRO) so now Im having to relearn Mechs and identify new ones.

Dude. You're speaking my language in a lot of cases in this. I've been playing BT since the 90s, and the Unseen have a great look to them in some cases, look better in miniature form, and some of the new art is decent.

New wolverine looks fantastic....but he left home without his briefcase!

The new phawk, shadowhawk, and stinger show the fluff semi-rules based detachable lasers that don't seem prevalent in the new models.

I'll have to side for all the original designs. The redesigns are sleeker in some cases, but knowing where the originals were taken from is part of the attraction for me. Especially the Marauder. It was Khyron's machine. The backstabber! I can't see one and not remember that description for Khyron. I am still a big fan of Robotech and those borrowed/stolen designs bring back great memories.

I love that New Classics mechs retain some of that original DNA (like I can clearly see Kawamori design on Warhammer as it literally looks like an update on original Tomahawk where Unseen version just looks like a fanart attempt at it for some reason. And Tomahawk/Warhammer is nothing short of Iconic mech for me) Marauder tho looks extra cool because it looks like "What if Humans designed Glaug and not Zentradi?" - it has this UNS blocky design seen in Tomahawk, Armored Valkyrie, Spartan and Defender but still retains original design that in Macross was even more round with that odd ringular main camera

Project Phoenix Shadowhawk with the Cobra Commander face isn't too bad. It;s not a Shadowhawk, but it looks nice.

If the new Locust had the old cockpit, it would be perfect. On the new Stinger, I miss the gun pod looking laser. I do really miss the ball turret on the Wolverine and wish it had carried over as well. What got me into Battletech was finding a copy of Camospecs back in the early 90s and seeing the original unseen Wolverine and reading the Eridani Light Horse fluff. Between the two I was hooked. Overall I think they did a great job on the new mechs.

For me, only the Locust, Crusader and the Marauder were where I wasn't _quite_ sure, but ultimately I think the new classics are universally better. I've been doing a bit of thinking, and I believe it comes down to two things: line thickness in the original art, and disproportionate legs. Having so little difference in line thickness in the OG artwork makes it really hard for the various bits to stand out, and it all sorta blends together for me. As for the legs, they're just _way_ too chunky. The Archer in particular looks severely mismatched with its legs and hips; like they're twice the size of the torso and arms.

I dislike the modern archer's cockpit placement. It seems odd for a short armed firesupport mech to place the cockpit so low and jutting out so far.

This was what the fans were looking for. This and also what mechs each faction primarily uses. I am glad they finally got around to the tech readouts on the factions.

The one thing I really wish they would have adressed when designing the new classic mechs is the wrong placement of components. The Thunderbolt has its LRM 15 in the RT in the rules, and the Marauder has its autocannon in the RT (because it wouldn't fit in the CT). They could have easily changed that up on the model. I can't really say if that would have destroyed the aesthetics, but I don't think it would have. I disagree with you on the Shadow Hawk and the Archer, but otherwise I think you are pretty spot on.

Idk why the new locust has a reinforced antennae on it. I feel like it should be a big spindly thing. Otherwise, the redesigned cockpit looks so much sleeker and more aggressive and I dig it.

The old mechs are just the best.. albeit Battletech did some upsies in atributing weapons to the the original japanese mechs, except for the veritech stuff.. for LAMs it just makes more sense to take an avoid shape and do less transformation then full on fighter form to mech in 3 stages

I personally like the new designs more, since I like the blocky war machine look of them, but the old designs are charming to me because they're relics of their time. They are VERY 80s.

I love most of the Unseen designs, but they are dated in a way that is unavoidable. I love the more militaristic designs of the newer look, but you're correct, at least none of them are those horrendous Project Phoenix redesigns. Edit: The only good Project Phoenix design was the Rifleman, which actually looks cool as hell.

Original Japanese Anime designs were amazing. A pity that Dougram and Crusher Joe never achieved the awarenes that Macross did.

The Crusader is my favorite of the new designs. it looks like an absolute BEAST.

I grew up with 3025, so have a soft spot for those designs (I remember buying the original Battletech an Citytech boxes with cardboard cutouts). But I’m pretty impressed with the new design language. All those FASA lead minis were passed on to others. It makes me smile thinking back on the good old days and how a new generation of players is keeping the game alive. Hell, it boggles the mind that I used to play BTech ASCII Muds/Mux over a dial up modem.

The problem with the new 'mech designs, they all look like they have rolled right out of the same assembly plant.

I enjoy all of Trailblazer videos

Honestly, after years of being disappointed in the various attempts at 'reseens' (Jesus that project phoenix Marauder was trash), I was pleasantly surprised at how hard CGL nailed it. I love the original designs, I'm a fan of Macross and Dougram, and I've been in the game since the 90s but the new ones all look good and fit in nicely with the modern aesthetics

I love the old unseen mechs I'm a huge fan of em but then... I liked robotech too 😂

I play mw5 with a mod that inputa some of the older models into the game.ill admit alot are pretty cool but i do enjoy the more bulky tank armor plat style its evolved into, has giving battletech its own look of western mech as apposed to slim sleek eastern mech.

The greatest improvement is the Thunderbolt, which used to be kinda wonky as unseen.

Dont forget that the Unseen Mechs are mostly ALL plastic Kits and were designed as such with some exceptions(like Urban Mech)from Bandai and other japanese Kit Manufacturers that were designed for Robotech and MAcross before Battletech existed!So between the unseen and the NC are lying over 40 years!Most of the NEW Classics look to bulky!Greetings from a from the beginning BT player!

I got Battletech mixed up with Robotech. I thought the boxset with the unseen Warhammer on the box cover was the Tomahawk from Robotech. Been in BT since then. I do have to say the new art and the way Battletech mechs were bulky I like most that look like they couldn't be made by slimmer armor.

The biggest problem with the new redesigns is how they all look so similar in style. There's no "soul" in them. They don't look like they were manufactured by different companies in different star nations.

I've been playing since it was called Battledroids (1984). I actually agree with Trailblazer for the most part with a few exceptions. 1.I consider the Shadowhawks equal because the original medium laser was way out of scale. 2.I consider the Wolverines equal. The new version is more accurate to the stats but the old is more accurate to some source materials. 3.I consider the Riflemans equal. I'm used to the old ascetic as much as anyone but the new is recognizable as a Rifleman AND more accurate to the stats as well as some source material. 4.I consider the Archers as equal. I prefer the beefier build of the newer one but maybe they went a little to beefy. Especially with the arms. Stinger, Wasp, and Phoenix Hawk all have 1 thing in common that could be a make or break comparison. The new classics do NOT yet have an LAM version. The IWM LAMs currently available are from TRO 3085. They were abominations made years before the new classics.

Great video & hope you do more along these lines. I'm 46 & just got into BT about 18 months ago. I played MW since 97, played ClickyMech in the early 2000s, but first came across BT in the late 80s & instantly fell in love with it seeing the mechs & the record sheets as there was so much to them, but only just had a chance to start playing. I was playing last Sun, and an old Grognard in our group was running a Ral Partha Locust & with the nice but likely paint job the mech just looked so good surrounded by new plastics. Whike I may disagree with a couple of your choices (like the Archer) I do agree some of the old mechs look great & I completely understand the nostalgia some of you may have for the old designs. I may have issue with some of the recent things CGL has done, but I am very thankful for what they have done & continue to do when it comes to updating the art & minis. I've heard they have had arguments over the location of antenna on the new designs, & I really appreciate the attention to detail & keeping the new designs at least at the core true to the original, but just better & maybe even a bit more "realistic".

I miss the double barrel PPC of the battlemaster, still a great redesign overall

To each their own, but none of the old designs look good side by side with the new ones. Maybe the Stinger and the Griffin but the rest no dice.

If there's anything that I think the new designs could take away from the old, it's that a bit of "War of the Worlds tripod" vibe isn't a bad thing. Not every mech needs to be chunky as hell, these are highly mobile far-future machines.

The original TRO 3050 thunderbolt in my opinion is the best looking Thunderbolt ever!

The new designs are good. I find most of them better, despite growing up with the originals. I'm not sure if the Project Phoenix mechs are bad, but they don't come close to matching the Battletech asethetics. It's almost like they were going out of their way to not match any other mech. There are some mechs that I never used because of the designs. The Wolverine and King Crab stand out in memory. Then I encountered them in Megamek and the BT video games. Now they're favorites.

As a new player I am totally split down the middle i love both.

I'm not gonna lie, some of the unseen mechs remind me alot about transformers Especially with the Stinger, wasp, & phoenix hawk

For me it's 11 - 0 for the new classics x) The way the new designs are made are right on the spot for me so.... xD The only unseen that i found cool are those stolen from Robotech. But that's because i'm a fan of macross design :) Have a good day ^^

My favorites were the veritech looking mechs, as well. But you forgot the Valkyrie! I prefer all of the original Unseen on all of them... But the new ones do look neat.

i like the true MAcross looks but for battletech i prefer the new CGL in table top minis

I've been introduced to Battletech by the HBS video game so I am biased when it comes to mech appearance. But the way it is described in the lore is a mix of old and new. The stinger for example, in the original GDL trilogy carries it's laser like a hand held rifle. But the marauder has always been described as having the AC5 in it's side torso as opposed to center top mounted. Also the old designs didn't look like they could endure the damage described in the novels by just being built out of future steel or whatever. They looked like they work thanks to some Clark tech super material. I like the new look very much, for almost all mechs. The battlemaster is the only standout for me, it looked so much better with the bubble glass cockpit and pushed out chest. It looked like a master of battle. The new model looks like a brick. It looks like a derivative of the shootist.

I just want to add that I like new Phoenix hawk more that any other iteration. it's just perfect IMO. I like new Shadow hawk design more. And I have to say that I really like new Marauder. And I must add that I like PGI Marauder even more.

You missed the ostcout, ostroc ostsol, scorpion and goliath

I just like the Ostmann Industries Nee Classics

I still don't understand how the non Macross/RoboTech stuff became unseen .......... And you're wrong the Shadow Hawk is the best of the three 55 tonners , better than a Wolverine at range , the best at medium range and better than the Griffin up close .

you should do an evolution of the paper/card stock to metal and plastics. some of these, like the locust, paper/card stock, I have 5 versions, and the metal/plastic, I have 6 versions. being able to see all of these in a line would be great.

As someone who saw RoboTech before they found wargaming I like both ........ And yeh project Phoenix art is mostly a miss

I really love the new Marauder

well they had to redesign all the models from Macross/Robotech due to copyright/ legal reasons

Some of your art choices confused me. Some appear to be from 3025, others from 3050, and in all cases the 3025 art was superior. And the less said about Project Phoenix the better. Ugh! I largely prefer the original unseen myself, but that's just my opinion. My biggest complaint with the New Classics relative to the unseen is that they made the barrel of the Shadow Hawk's AC/5 significantly shorter, Second biggest complaint (and to be fair, FASA started it with the Wasp) was how so many hand-held weapons got built into the arms. The whole point was that the 'mech would be able to 'sling' the weapon and use both hands to carry things; this was a major point in several of the early scenario books. Back when objective raids and looting strategic material was a big part of the game...

Does anyone else find it odd that he is talking about the "miniatures" and how they look on the table the whole time, but is displaying drawings for comparison, rather than the actual miniatures? Other than that oddity, I enjoyed it

I do miss the unseen but hey, a)I still have all the old minis and b) Some of the new designs look a-ok

It's of course a matter of personal taste, but i know that mine is perfect. So i dare to say that your evaluation of the Rifleman is wrong. The new one is vastly superior. In my eyes, which as just stated, tell the absolute truth. May Blake be with you. :D

Not a fan of Duane Loose's art, as I prefer the original drawings by Shoji Kawamori and Kunio Okawara. ShimmeringSword has done a great job adapting the old designs made by both of the Japanese artists into the modern day.

Why are the original mechs considered "unseen"? I've read about and seen all these mechs in the books and figures.

@22:26 "We can live!" ?

case by case for me

I wanted to do a youtube channel doing this. The only difference i wanted to do was to show unseen, reseen, mwo, and catalyst comparison.

Archer. Hands down and the Marauder cause its arms look like ARMS not pipes

The unseen archer looks like some sort of fat goblin with weirdly placed arms. Like a skinny fat man. The new classic archer looks like it could end someone's day even before it pops open the missile bays (spelling fixed)

New Stinger looks a bit too bulky, espescially the legs. And I miss the pistol grip.

Okay, boring old fart here, the trouble for me is that you're comparing the original FASA artwork with the new artwork, and the new artwork is just better. However, the original designs from Dougram, Macross and Crusher Joe are iconic in a way that the new designs are not. But, model wise, no argument, the new CGL mechs kick it out of the park.

Just a friendly reminder. Have whatever preferences you want, but don’t make somebody else feel like shit because they aren’t using what is your opinion of the “correct version” of a chassis. If you do this, you are the problem. Flat out, no questions asked. Do not risk driving people away from the game because you have to make some sort of snide comment about their PP Warhammer (or whichever chassis it might be). That is what they introduced to the universe with, and they probably feel the same way about it that some feel about the “unseen”.

lols your obsessed with head

The Project Phoenix is an abomination, the Locust is cool

Quite a few of those choices really made me wonder what you be smokin’. Most of the new designs appear much too heavily armored with unnecessary heavy plating on arms and legs. Some are just freaking heinous looking in comparison to the originals. Particularly the Phoenix Hawk and the Crusader. Neither of them seems to give even the vaguest callback to their Veritech roots. The Phoenix Hawk is more unfinished looking and squared off in shape than fits a fast jumping medium. And the Crusader is just goofy. Poor thing looks like it needs a summer or three at fat camp and having the LRM15s in the forearms is silly.

Seems like I fared well against your nostalgia. Some wins and losses I expected would go the other way around. Good and fair video all around.

OG Archer looks like an old man wearing a diaper. New Classics wins that hands down.

You have shown the original unseen: expect a process server. Harmony Gold lawsuit incoming.

The original Battletech art was so bad tho. It's like they hired a writer (not an artist) to copy/trace the source material, poorly. And it does appear they are trying real hard to follow the art style of the guy who did them for MWO and Mechwarrior5 for the "New Classics". So would have loved to have seen you use "better" pictures from both of the source materials instead of JUST the quick sketches FASA made. MWO Locust by far outshines the original, by miles. Unfortunately MWO doesnt have the wasp and stinger yet. Original Robotech art of the Pheonix Hawk was a work of art, that FASA did no justice too. Neither did MWO. Griffon, Shadowhawk, and Wolverine I never saw the originals from the shows until recently. But the LEAD figures were great (still have them). MWO did an ok job bringing those to life, but prefer the FASA (aka show) variants. Thunderbolt, still to this day have not seen where the original came from. Always looked awkward in all but the best FASA art, which did exist, but MWO Really brought it to life well. So the new version wins. Crusader looked kind of silly to me in Robotech, but there was some good FASA art back in the day. New MWO version is OK, but not great. The real good art made of the original Warhammer is hand down the most beautiful. Use some I found as wall paper on this here computer. It really looks like an imposing weapon of war, unlike the Robotech or MWO versions, which just do not hold a candle to some of the stuff I have. Battlemaster, again never saw the show, but it was my absolute favorite when looking at the toys and figures back in the 80s. MWO version's body looks better but lacks the bubble 2 seat cockpit that made me love the original, as well as not carrying the big ole gun. But I'm a Clanner. Was absolutely sold on the look of the Clan mechs with the release of 3050 and all the art that poured out from that over the years. You freebirth scum dont know how to make mechs.

as an old fart, hard to go past the original Macross clones. Would have been interesting to see a side by side comparison of the unseen, project phoenix and reseen. I would rate the project phoenix Archer as the best looking Archer and the P-Hawk was pretty good as well - but tend to agree that many of the project Phoenix mechs were derpy...

They were all anime.