Beechcraft Bonanza fatal crash. The tragic loss of our friends.

Рет қаралды 8,845

3 ай бұрын

We lost our two friends (neighbors) in a 1959 K35 Bonanza. Unlike the TNflygirl Jenny Blalock crash these types of crashes are much scarier if you fly. Risk awareness & management, how do you look at it? Questions for you.
1-Would you have done anything different if you were in the left seat? (Tim)
2-Would you have done anything different if you were in the right seat? (Ken)
3-Would you have said anything to Tim or Ken after helping push out the airplane if you were me? (Jeff)
NTSB Final Report
Location: MARYSVILLE, Washington Accident Number: SEA87FA019
Date & Time: November 6, 1986, 17:48 Local Registration: N9536R
Aircraft: BEECH BE35K Aircraft Damage: Destroyed
Defining Event: Injuries: 2 Fatal
Flight Conducted Under: Part 91: General aviation - Personal.
Analysis
A WITNESS OBSERVED THE ACFT IMPACT IN AN OPEN FIELD DURING A HEAVY RAIN. RAIN,
FOG, AND TURBULENCE IN THE CLOUDS WERE REPORTED IN THE AREA AT THE TIME. THE
ACFT IMPACTED IN A RIGHT TURN. THE NEW INSTRUMENT RATED PLT WAS GETTING
COMPLEX ACFT TIME IN PREPARATION FOR HIS COMMERCIAL CHECK RIDE IN A SIMILAR
ACFT 2 DAYS HENCE. THE NEW ATR PLT (ACFT OWNER) WAS IN THE RIGHT SEAT. RADIOS
AND THROW OVER CONTROL WHEEL WAS ON THE LEFT SIDE POSITION.
Probable Cause and Findings
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:
Findings
Occurrence #1: IN FLIGHT ENCOUNTER WITH WEATHER
Phase of Operation: CRUISE
Findings
1. (F) WEATHER CONDITION - RAIN
2. (F) WEATHER CONDITION - TURBULENCE IN CLOUDS
3. (F) LIGHT CONDITION - DARK NIGHT
4. (F) WEATHER EVALUATION - MISJUDGED - PILOT IN COMMAND
5. (F) SELF-INDUCED PRESSURE - PILOT IN COMMAND
----------
Page 2 of 5 SEA87FA019
Occurrence #2: IN FLIGHT COLLISION WITH TERRAIN/WATER
Phase of Operation: MANEUVERING
Findings
6. (C) AIRCRAFT HANDLING - NOT MAINTAINED - PILOT IN COMMAND
7. (C) DESCENT - INADVERTENT - PILOT IN COMMAND
8. (F) LACK OF FAMILIARITY WITH AIRCRAFT - PILOT IN COMMAND
Pilot Information
Certificate: Private Age: 20, Male
Airplane Rating(s): Single-engine land Seat Occupied: Left
Other Aircraft Rating(s): None Restraint Used:
Instrument Rating(s): Airplane Second Pilot Present: Yes
Instructor Rating(s): None Toxicology Performed: Yes
Medical Certification: Class 2 Valid Medical--no
waivers/lim.
Last FAA Medical Exam: August 15, 1986
Occupational Pilot: No Last Flight Review or Equivalent:
Flight Time: 356 hours (Total, all aircraft), 3 hours (Total, this make and model), 284 hours (Pilot In
Command, all aircraft), 64 hours (Last 90 days, all aircraft), 8 hours (Last 30 days, all aircraft),
Aircraft Information
Aircraft Make: BEECH Registration: N9536R
Model/Series: BE35K Aircraft Category: Airplane
Year of Manufacture: 1959
Airworthiness Certificate: Normal Serial Number: D-6201
Landing Gear Type: Retractable - Tricycle Seats: 4
Date/Type of Last
Inspection:
March 5, 1986, Annual Certified Max Gross Wt.: 2950 lbs.
Time Since Last Inspection: 50 Hrs. Engines: 1 Reciprocating
Airframe Total Time: 2837 Hrs. Engine Manufacturer: CONTINENTAL
ELT: Installed, not activated Engine Model/Series: IO-470-C 250hp.
#flying
#aviationaccidents
#aviationaccident
#beechcraft
#bonanza
#generalaviation
#accidentinvestigation
#k35
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Пікірлер: 51

@neilsingh5311 3 ай бұрын

Thank you for posting this and very sorry for your loss. The go/no go decision here seems like the most critical factor. Even if you are instrument rated there should be weather minimums firmly in place. And while you mentioned your dad’s one eye as a risk factor, why does ANY GA pilot need to fly a single engine at night? Especially when there’s bad weather to boot? It’s a legitimate question to ask. Maybe there’s a great answer for it sometimes. It doesn’t sound like there was that evening. It sounds like they were hit with immediate cloud cover, lack of any visual references from city lights, plus turbulence, leading to spatial disorientation. This was sadly a case of very poor ADM. Both of them being well rated pilots, I don’t know if it’s fair to judge them for the throw-over yoke or any actions inside the cockpit. One person has to be in charge. It’s possible that Ken could have averted the spatial disorientation, but everything played out in seconds. As for your speaking up, that likely would have made no difference. As humans we are stubborn. 2 well rated pilots decided to fly that night. A teenager ambiguously saying to them “hey maybe you shouldn’t” for non-specific, non-mechanical reasons was probably going to be brushed off with a pat on the back and a “see you soon kid.” Who’s to really say but that’s how I see it.

@maxtanicfilms 3 ай бұрын

Thank you for the kind thoughts and taking the time to comment. Serious points you make here, my hope is people read it and think before they fly.

@neilsingh5311 3 ай бұрын

@@maxtanicfilmsIn defense of your lost friends, I am guessing that FAA literature and training about risk management back in those days was just not as advanced and widespread as it is today. Social media also probably helps spread the knowledge to young pilots these days.

@TCovey210 3 ай бұрын

During the air traffic controller strike… Ken worked with me in Ravensdale…. Ken and I flew a T210 back from California back to Crest airpark. I to this day own that 210. Ken was a good pilot and a nice guy. You know some times when managing risk.. all the holes line up and it is just your time. Sad good people sometimes die. Condolences to the families and to you. Thanks for posting.

@maxtanicfilms 3 ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing that Todd it means a lot. It really helps in keeping his memory alive. So you have had that bird all these years, amazing. Did you know John Dennis by chance? He was my ATC instructor at Green River CC. We actually rented his house for a few months when we first moved to Crest. He was a former controller who got fired at the time of the strike.

@TCovey210 3 ай бұрын

@@maxtanicfilms you know the name sounds familiar… also Tim’s picture looks familiar…. I was only 18-19 years old when I knew Ken.. I just remember he was a good pilot and had a nice family. My flying career has been built on the blood of my brothers… so I believe their lives are not wasted if we learn from them. This is how you honor the fallen.

@bobwilson758 2 ай бұрын

I agree with you on the dual control - Just a good , solid , idea to have .

@georgewoodland1766 3 ай бұрын

As a Bonanza owner with dual controls, I don’t think having a single yoke was a factor. It was probably due to vertigo. I never flew my bonanza at night, except for once getting caught with a quick sunset in Palm Springs area and having a heck of a time finding the Borrego Springs airport with all the ground lights obscuring the runway lighting.

@bobwilson758 2 ай бұрын

So true , what your father said . Not everyone can handle flying an aircraft ! Very complex indeed .

@MalcolmRuthven 3 ай бұрын

When I was young (and a pilot), I flew night single-engine with no instrument rating. As I got older, no way would I fly single-engine at night period, instrument rating (which I got) or not.

@erwinrommel839 3 ай бұрын

The convergence zone can be from north of Everett to south of Tacoma. This depends on the direction the weather is coming from and still has the ability to hit the cascade range

@scottw5315 3 ай бұрын

Night, bad weather, single engine piston, I'm assuming single gyro, single vacuum pump, single yoke. If you lose a vacuum pump which in my experience happens about every five hundred hours, the Bonanza is going to be extremely challenging to fly off the needle/ball or turn coordinator in bad weather. The Bonanza is very clean. If you enter out of control flight it will accelerate very very fast. I personally think this is how it earned the doctor killer moniker. How do I know? I have 1200 hours in a Bonanza 35. I flew it more than once no gyro on a VFR night. More...piston engines fail every 3000 hours per the FAA. If you lose your only engine on a dark night your chance of surviving the crash are not good. And its not always a total engine failure. If you blow a cylinder you are in a reduced power state which may lead to total engine failure and/or make getting to a runway difficult even if it keeps running. As a former safety officer in the USMC, I would say that they never should have taken off.

@maxtanicfilms 3 ай бұрын

Well said, thank you for sharing that & thank you for your service. Our son is active USAF.

@srqjim6381 3 ай бұрын

A sad story, well told.

@apackwestbound5946 3 ай бұрын

You remember when the "AIM" and "NOTAM" meant Airman's Information Manual and Notice to Airmen (or words very similar). Times change, things change definitions change those aviation publications are now called Aeronautical Information Manual and Notice to Air Missions (or words close to those). I "think" back in the mid-eighties, and earlier, what is now called an ATP (Airline Transport Pilot) was then referred to as ATR (Airline Transport Rating) not to be confused with the French-Italian aircraft manufacturer "ATR, French: Avions de transport regional".

@maxtanicfilms 3 ай бұрын

That makes total sense, thanks for the clarification.

@irgski 3 ай бұрын

Dan Gryder says: Night, IMC, ICE or Terrain…Pick ONE!

@bobwilson758 2 ай бұрын

So much unknown . Damn - Such a shame , folks . Stay good .

@jamesgraham6122 3 ай бұрын

I can't agree with your final statement regarding Tim being an instrument rated pilot.. Instrument flying in real, demanding IMC is something we learn from hard experience, it's a tough learning curve.. The theory gets you the IR Rating.. only experience makes you a competent IR pilot... Had I been Ken I Know .. for sure, I'd have walked Tim over to the FBO, made him check the weather and then reminded him that good pilots have to demonstrate good decision making skills.. that aircraft shoiuld not have left the ground.

@maxtanicfilms 3 ай бұрын

I appreciate the points you make. Thanks for taking the time to comment. My hope is people read these, learn and it potentially saves a life.

@bobwilson758 2 ай бұрын

Hey big buddy - people used to tell me that I worried too much ! Well , it wasn’t worry , and Not paranoia , just using common sense and having a back up plan ! They are gone now - Damn .

@davidmangold1838 3 ай бұрын

Good coverage. Sorry for you’all s loss. Dan Gryder, in his accident analyses, says pick one of four situations; night, IMC, icing and I think thunderstorms. Don’t stack the deck by flying with 2, 3 or four of the above. I flew a lot of older bonanzas and Barons. Throw over yoke is not a good idea for training. And, older Bonanza panels had most of the avionics and radios in the lower left. So, the instructor or the more experienced pilot in the right seat, can’t help in setting up the avionics or frequencies. I’d surmise, that in IMC at night, relatively low to the ground, rain and turbulence, it would be easy to get vertigo. Left seat pilot gets spatially disoriented due to inner ear and not trusting instruments (lack of training and experience), led to an upset/unusual attitude. And the ATPR rated pilot in the right seat with no yoke, and viewing the six pack from the opposite side, couldn’t effect any control inputs to save the day. Dave, flying my 1947 Bonanza still at age 71 and 28,000 hours total and 40 years airline.

@maxtanicfilms 3 ай бұрын

Really appreciate your comments, great information. As you mention this panel did have the instruments in the lower left position. WOW, 28K on the hours, fantastic. My parents neighbor has a 47 Bonanza which they have had for decades. At the very least as long as I have known them which dates back to 1983. Thanks again!

@RaysDad 3 ай бұрын

In IMC with buffeting winds spiral divergence is something to watch out for, especially in those old Bonanzas. The witnesses on the ground seemed to be describing a right-hand nose-down spiral into terrain. It makes sense that spiral divergence would result in a "death spiral" that the pilots might not recognize in IMC until it's too late.

@maxtanicfilms 3 ай бұрын

Very good point, thanks for commenting.

@gtm624 3 ай бұрын

Man that’s rough. One thing I have learned from so many is that if I see something say something. My friend says that in every passenger brief. Pride stays on the ground. You’ll never hurt my feelings if you see something say something. I just watched a pilot debrief by Hoover on an sr20 crash. A guy who wasn’t a pilot saw them loading the plane with 4 men and luggage and thought it didn’t look right but ASSUMED they knew what they were doing. They were way overloaded. You said the same thing. I think it’s best to never assume someone knows better. I also heard Mike pateys story on how he made someone get out of another airplane and into his and had he didn’t they would have crashed. Da was high and the other pic wasn’t being reasonable and they were overweight. Hind sight is hard but this exact situation is very fresh as I watch what Dan Gryder is up against in this mess with a cub that crashed way overweight. Bringing up points on that there were others there who knew better and allowed it to happen knowing they were overweight. Long story but the point of all this is absolutely. Even a student or just a non pilot, anyone if you see something that seems a bit off then say something. Don’t fly at night single engine unless you must and always pick just one. Night, imc, Ice, terrain. Don’t stack the deck. And be sure to have an instrument rating if you do plan to fly at night. Of course outside of our vfr night requirements. Thanks for sharing your story. What a beautiful home, I love that hearth and setup!!

@maxtanicfilms 3 ай бұрын

Appreciate all your comments and couldn't agree more, great points. I honestly believe my Dad would have been killed in our F35 if I hadn't said something and gone. The only reason I did is because of this accident and how I felt NOT, saying something. As you mention those other videos, those fellas do a great job and there are many lessons to be learned. The hearth really is a nice feature of their house. A You may like this video of their house. At one point they were going to sell it but decided against it. Would have missed their friends too much. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/lZ6jrJtjrNnQnnk.html Thanks again for taking the time to comment.

@gtm624 3 ай бұрын

@@maxtanicfilms thank you for sharing! I’ll definitely check that link out. I love houses with character and I’m a big supporter of heating with wood. I’ve heated 100% with wood for the last 6 years. I’m moving and will be doing the same at my new house. That brick surround is not only beautiful im sure it heats up and helps radiate the heat. I always say there’s no coincidences. With your dad you went with your gut feeling and you did the right thing. That was a great outcome. I’ve heard from the best, Gear up in a field is best. F35 is an amazing machine. I’m just not a fan of the v tails but I think the f35 is one of the broadest of missions in ga. Happy to hear your success story with your dad. Sorry about the plane but it was great example of good piloting and decision making.

@maxtanicfilms 3 ай бұрын

@@gtm624 Thanks a bunch for that. Yes, the brick really does radiate the heat, place gets toasty. Congrats on the new home. The V-tails had some issues with structural failures due to flutter. They had a high failure rate in comparison to the straight tail Debonair/Bonanzas. An AD came out for this issue. Tail cuffs, which have since greatly reduced the issue. Still can happen so preventing imbalance is critical. This means proper rigging & maintenance.

@lloydammoguy3829 2 ай бұрын

I agree, I'm a fair weather flyer only.

@richardtruesdell8289 3 ай бұрын

I would never fly at night or if you're in a convergence zone don't fly.

@Wookierabbit 3 ай бұрын

Question (Local Weather): At the time, what would have been a reliable method to quickly determine if convergence storms were occurring in Puget Sound? Would FSS briefing done the job? The observation of mist in your area, would have been an indication of probable storms up north?

@maxtanicfilms 3 ай бұрын

Yes FSS would have. The thing I think about is they were in contact with ATC. In addition the controller was a friend of Kens. I wish there was more info but one would hope the controller would have communicated local weather. No ATC records are available that we know of. No flight plan was filed which would have been another source. Thanks for the comments.

@Wookierabbit 3 ай бұрын

@@maxtanicfilms I was thinking before that, not during flight. Putting yourself in either one’s shoes. At that time, would it had been common routine, habit, for either one to call up FSS for a briefing an hour or two before departing? I recall you mentioned Ken was with you at the time. Did he at one point? Before Tim rang you up on the Tele, knowing Tim, would you think he had called FSS right before calling you? If either one would likely to be true, I am thinking was that another point of human override? If neither is true, it just adds to the interesting piece of the puzzle of missed observations from either pilot.

@maxtanicfilms 3 ай бұрын

I have thought about that and tried to recall if Ken may have done that. I know he went into the house but may have just been to get cleaned up from being under the car. I just don't know but always assumed he did. I would say he was in the house for 10 minutes at least. He had time to call. There is no information that either one of them called, or didn't call FSS. Tim was at the house quickly. If he did call it would have been before I took the call. It would seem plausable he would check the weather first, if good, call Ken. I do find it hard to believe they didn't check the weather. Such a tough deal and so unfortunate the NTSB didn't include any communications.

@rjobrien7805 3 ай бұрын

@@maxtanicfilms No flight plan filed!! Really? On that crappy weather night to go fly some local approaches.

@maxtanicfilms 3 ай бұрын

@@rjobrien7805 No information from the NTSB (That I know of) about communications was released. We know they had them with the TRACON controller but anyone else or any other facility remains unknown. The reason we know about the controller is because he told Kens family at the time.

@nightwaves3203 3 ай бұрын

No mention of them getting weather. Did they do a pop up IFR into unknown weather is what I'd ask.

@maxtanicfilms 3 ай бұрын

Very likely as they were in contact with TRACON. Seems like they had to have had an idea. NTSB final report didn't mention it one way or another. The accident being just NE of the field, were they on the GO or on an approach? A lot of details unknown.

@TheTexasPsyclone 3 ай бұрын

As a 3rd gen pilot who grew up in a family owned aviation business.. I have similar recollections about friends lost and your story hits close to home. I just finished my commercial and much of the discussion on the practical was about risk. First - you are absolutely correct... just getting in the airplane poses risk. The old adage about "Aviation in and of itself is not inherently dangerous,... bla bla bla". BS. It absolutely is. We were not designed to fly and when we leave the relative safety of the earth we give up much of the control we have over our fate. At that point, risk mitigation becomes the key - because risk avoidance is impossible. Did they do anything wrong? Not necessarily. Could they have done more right? Sounds like it. And that feeling of dread you had - even though the single yoke might have not been directly a factor - was probably because you knew the entirety of the situation was progressing beyond a comfortable level of what was safe closer to what might not be. It's probably served you well many times since then. It's hard to put into words or teach. The "3 strike rule" is an effort to do that. But there is a reason they say "there aren't as many old bold pilots".

@maxtanicfilms 3 ай бұрын

Powerful thoughts all should take in and absorb. I hope people read what you just wrote three and four times, I certainly did. Thank you for taking the time to write this.

@TheTexasPsyclone 3 ай бұрын

@@maxtanicfilms I have really enjoyed all of your videos and can tell you have a passion for aviation. It's surprising you didn't stay on that path. I have no doubt there are specific reasons why. I too fell away after my father passed away - for almost 18 years I didn't fly. Now at 50, I have made it my quest to reclaim my legacy. It's much harder than it ever was before. But I really have no choice. It would have been my greatest of very few regrets in my life.

@maxtanicfilms 3 ай бұрын

@@TheTexasPsyclone Very nice of you to say. Bravo for getting back into it & sorry to hear about your father. As you say there were reasons why it went the way it did for me. The short answer is I have always had 2 passions. Aviation and powersports. I went the powersports way in my profession and it has been a joy. It allowed me to pursue racing in such a way I otherwise would have been unable. I am thankful for my experiences in both. interesting thing, you remind of another friend growing up. Keith, he is 5 years older than me & was a neighbor down in Hillsboro Oregon. Prior to Tim and Kens accident Keith lost his father Andy and another one of our neighbors in a biplane accident. This happened a year after we moved up to Seattle, we were not there when it happened. Keith was 18 when at the time. He just got his PPL early this year. His mother was a licensed pilot at the time of the accident and continued to fly (still does). For Keith it took all these years but just like you, legacy. Thanks again for sharing!

@flyer5769 3 ай бұрын

From what I saw, there was no reason to say anything about the controls of the aircraft. 1 you said Tim had his IFR ticket. 2 the weather was just drizzly. So Tim's friends basically just for extra set of eyes and for critique. So what it seems like is they flew into much worse weather than they were expecting. But I don't understand why the loss control. Even if he'd gotten in to a little vertigo his friend should have been able to talk him out of it. He was IFR rated after all. Did the report say there was any kind of airframe failure? So I don't think saying anything under those conditions. Would've led them not to fly. JMHO.

@maxtanicfilms 3 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comments. The report didn't state airframe failure but one never knows. It was very brief. Witness saw the airplane in a right turn with a high decent rate and engine at high rpm. I agree on the weather. Living here one can get used to it so it simply good have been just that.

@flyer5769 3 ай бұрын

@@maxtanicfilms like you said getting used to it. I flew out of Bethel Alaska for four years. The flying we did there was not good for pilots or passengers. I had to leave because of becoming an adrenaline junkie. I knew if I didn't stop it was going to stop me. We flew VFR. But it was sometimes not. Our minimum was 1 mile clear of clouds. It seemed that the more people that needed a ride at the village the better the weather would become, no matter how bad it was. So we were forced to go check. And if we can find it we landed. Because the company rules were if you did make your destination you didn't get paid. Ain't that bitch! It would probably take me a day or two go through all the crap that I'd been through flying there.

@jchowelljr 3 ай бұрын

I appreciated your video and thoughts. Last year I witnessed a fatal accident that had me in a fog for a few days. I wonder if I had said something would it have ended as it did. I was taxing out when a mooney pilot made a call that he had lost power (he had just taken off). When I got to the hold short line I could see him in the the down wind and he made another call that he had lost power. I called and said I was holding short and he just kept going until I lost sight of him but he made another call that he was on base without power. I just kept sitting and watching until he came into sight to low to make the runway. Stall spin ..... if when I made my holding short call if I had said something about him not getting to far from the runway if it would have made a difference. My guess is he was trying to diagnose why he had lost power (I think he actually had partial power). BUT could I have said anything to get his attention on where he was in relationship to the runway? Situational awareness ....

@maxtanicfilms 3 ай бұрын

Oh wow that's gut wrenching. It's so hard to say but my guess is you felt it could be made worse by saying something. Feeling it could be distracting to the pilot. Not speaking for you but that's what I think about when you tell it, "should I or shouldn't I?" I think most of us including myself would have done exactly what you did. The aftermath turning out how it did is tragic. If he would have made a controlled off field landing and survived then different thoughts all together. I guess we never really know. I got a 2yr AA degree in ATC and was accepted to OKC for training. Long story short I didn't pursue it, but. They taught us to NOT assist in piloting but to ask "what are your intentions?" The reasoning is we are not the pilot, we are not in command nor in the cockpit. Thus it could be a distraction and potentially more dangerous. There have been exceptions over the years but that's their best practice. Thanks for sharing really appreciate it.

@bobwilson758 2 ай бұрын

Airman Decision Making - -

@bradfordparker6639 3 ай бұрын

Yes - it was not a mistake - it was ATR- seems like that was just recently - I must be old. Changing all these things is unnecessary and a pain- the bureaucrats should spend time on more safety and less word changing . Night flight in bad weather and single engine are 3 strikes against you .

@maxtanicfilms 3 ай бұрын

Ah yes, I agree 100% on all you said.