Beer Thunder: "Bro...You're Just Playing It Wrong."

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Squishface (Drinks Beer And Plays WarThunder)

Squishface (Drinks Beer And Plays WarThunder)

3 ай бұрын

Flanker is secretly a really strong dogfighting plane for real this time.

Пікірлер: 85
@Messerjockel
@Messerjockel 3 ай бұрын
me, i will step up and win.
@Bobslon
@Bobslon 3 ай бұрын
yes
@squishface80085
@squishface80085 3 ай бұрын
You'd have to unlock it first.
@skilz2kil528
@skilz2kil528 3 ай бұрын
lmao if only twice the cobra did in fact equal cobra kai - that bloody got me good.
@smoh7793
@smoh7793 3 ай бұрын
All I hear is “KRITICHESKIY UGOL ATAKI”
@josippetkovic389
@josippetkovic389 3 ай бұрын
You said to me "Ride it like you stole it" and damn right that's how it is so you're not bad teacher rly
@stein_the_lynx3284
@stein_the_lynx3284 Ай бұрын
late to the video but one thing about the Flanker vs the F-15 i've noticed is that in realistic battles the Su-27 will get rolled everytime, but when you take an Su-27 into simulator battles and it's spaded vs spaded, it becomes a lot more even, when you can control your pull a lot more gradually and have more control over your aircraft without the instructor or the jerky movements of the aircraft that comes with mouse and keyboard some planes are allowed to show just how good they can be. one aircraft i noticed this most on a bit ago was the F-86K, in realistic it's an incredibly mediocre aircraft, but in sim it's actually quite good and can tangle with most things at the br it faces, same can be said for the F-4 Phantom, the F-4C, E, J, and S become a lot more competitive against things at it's immediate br range (10.7-11.3 for the Phantom 2 9.7-10.7 for the F-4C) when taken into sim. the biggest surprise i had with an aircraft though was the Tornado, it is absolutely useless in a dogfight in realistic, but when you take it into sim you find that it isn't a 100% losing battle, if you manage to play your cards perfectly you can win some dogfights against certain aircraft if the enemy pilot isn't as skilled, whereas in realistic if the skill difference is the same the Tornado is still likely to lose to highly low skilled pilots. another thing i'd recommend checking out just as a showcase of the difference between sim and realistic controls is to go into a custom match and have the same aircraft face off against each other, one in sim controls, the other using the regular mouse aim that you'd use in realistic, the difference it makes can sometimes be astounding depending on the aircraft
@WOLFER.
@WOLFER. 3 ай бұрын
The f15 over performs by 1 degree in the ssutained turn rate, I posted it on the forums, but you have to do a video on the f20 tigershark you have no idea how broken it is and I posted about it on the forums as well. The f20 irl is supposed to have 21 to 22 degrees of sustained ed turn rate at its min fuel with no payload at the deck sustaining 400 knots (IAS). In the game it has the highest sustained turn rate in the game for top tier jets, with 26° degrees, this means little Timmy with his mom's credit card can have the best sustained turn rate fighter in the game, for 75 dollars, this is a massive issue. Its over performing by 4 whole degrees and it needs to be nerfed as soon as possible.
@squishface80085
@squishface80085 3 ай бұрын
How are you getting 26 degrees per second in the F-20? What is your testing method?
@WOLFER.
@WOLFER. 3 ай бұрын
@@squishface80085 min fuel, at the deck, 400 knots (IAS) clean payload, the f16 got its accurate sustained turn rate of 24.5 degrees at those same conditions, the f20 tigershark is supposed to have 22 degrees of sustained turn rate, but it's over performing by 4 degrees. It's on the forums I posted about it and how I found this out
@squishface80085
@squishface80085 3 ай бұрын
@@WOLFER. I got around 22-23 degrees per second at 400kts with min fuel and no missiles.
@WOLFER.
@WOLFER. 3 ай бұрын
@@squishface80085 weird, I kept getting 25.6 (26 can be achieved with zero mistakes made)
@squishface80085
@squishface80085 3 ай бұрын
@@WOLFER. I'm using WTRTI and it's achieved with around 30 percent trim on the test flight map.
@TheDAWinz
@TheDAWinz 3 ай бұрын
EAGLE ON TOP RAHHHH
@HerraTohtori
@HerraTohtori 3 ай бұрын
From my point of view, duels is the wrong way to use just about any aircraft. But out of this match, I would expect the F-15 to outperform the Su-27 more than nine out of ten times regardless of the sim. The FM differences seem to correspond fairly well to the physical characteristics of each plane, so the FM isn't perhaps the best place to focus on when talking about why the plane has trouble in the game as it's normally played: In SB EC, the Su-27 is still at a disadvantage compared to planes like F-16C, F-15A, or JAS-39 Gripen, or Mirage 2000 or Mirage 4000 or MiG-29G or just about any other top tier jet. This is because the advantages that the Su-27 is *supposed* to have, are rendered mostly irrelevant in the game. So, instead of trying to figure out if the FM is fundamentally wrong (which I don't believe it is), I would rather focus on the current issues with BVR and VWR missiles. The general issue with BVR is that SARH missiles are rendered almost irrelevant by current implementation of multipathing. You basically only get SARH kills against people who are inattentive, inexperienced, or just accidentally happen to fly too high and the missile can track properly. Possible solution would be to adjust multipathing - for example, I have heard that multipathing doesn't work quite the same (or at all) over large bodies of water. This alone could make SARH missiles a much more credible threat on certain areas of certain maps, like Sinai and most of all Denmark. It would mean that the missiles would be a genuine threat and would have to be defeated in some other ways if you're flying over water. Secondly, the best short range missile of the Su-27 (R-73) is, in the balance of things, less effective than the current implementation of AIM-9M. This, I believe, could be fixed by addressing an issue with the AIM-9M that makes it the superior weapon. Namely, I believe the current implementation of AIM-9M with no visible trail at all is fundamentally incorrect. Yes, the rocket motor is labeled as "smokeless" but that is really a relative term. The exhaust still contains large amounts of water vapor, which means the missile should still produce a visible vapour trail almost at any altitude. Essentially, water vapour *is* the "smoke" in most cases, so that's something you can't really get around. There are some AIM-9M launches that can be found on KZfaq, and they certainly produce a very visible trail. Fixing this could address the main issue of what makes the AIM-9M so terrifying - namely, the fact that you can't see those bloody things launched so it's very hard to defend against them. If the SARH missiles were made relevant (or, relevant enough that you'd need to actually evade them rather than just fly in a straight line at low altitude while spamming your own missiles at the enemy in a head-on), then the Su-27 would have *basically* the largest amount of the best SARH missiles of any platform in the game. And, if the AIM-9M was made visible, then I would say the R-73 and the AIM-9M would be more or less equal, with the R-73 being better with off-boresight launches and the AIM-9M having perhaps the edge with IRCCM in most circumstances. In that situation the Su-27 would have the BVR advantage, while NATO fighters would have some other advantages.
@Ras370SK
@Ras370SK 3 ай бұрын
pleasure to read this Get it to the devs and we might save the top tier sim
@user-jy6cn3jy8g
@user-jy6cn3jy8g 3 ай бұрын
Yeah, multipathing doesn’t affects radars if the target is flying above water (I mean it does but muuuuch less effective cause clean water can reflect only up to 3% of beams of the frequency ranges. So the target have to fly lower than 1m above water which is impossible even in WT) About wrong FM’s, here’re two options: F-15’s FM is wrong or Su-27’s FM is wrong cause according to pretty much any available source both of these planes have almost the same STR at any speed (F-15 has ~1deg/s more at speeds higher than 700kph IAS and ~ 1deg/s less at speeds less than 650kph, at speeds 650-700kph both planes have literally the same STR according to their TR diagram, which means that F-15 always outrates Su-27 if F-15 keeps its speed above 700kph but it equals or loses rate fight to Su-27 if its speed below 700kph not to mention that if you pull or roll hard in the F-15 or F-16 at pre-stall/stall/post-stall speeds it will enter a spin (in the F-16 for instance if you just roll over 30deg at 250kph if in horizontal flight even without doing any other actions the plane will immediately stalls and enter a spin with yaw rate ~ 20deg/s and in most cases the plane will enter the F-16’s “deep stall” zone (when AoA is between +25deg and +60deg or between -20deg and -40deg the elevators can only pitch the plane up, even if the angle of elevators is +25deg) and you basically won’t be able to pitch down by using elevators which makes it impossible to recover. The only way to recover in this situation is to “rocket pitch” when instead of pulling down(which is a normal practice to get out of a spin) you pull up to pass 60deg of AoA and then very quickly pass through the DS AoA zone but that requires a lot of altitude and time and sometimes it’s impossible to do) and you know what? None of these “features” have been added to the FM’s of those planes which makes em very good in stall speed fights while irl they literally just can’t do it … at all
@squishface80085
@squishface80085 3 ай бұрын
I focus more on flight models because I like flying the planes. The way that weapons systems are modeled in the game is it's own entire can of worms. Insofar as multi-pathing is concerned...I think a large part of the community has convinced itself that removing it or reworking it would lead to an improvement in gameplay. I remember similar sentiments about the implementation of IRCCM missiles...which means I am a lot less optimistic. Everyone that advocates for multi-pathing removal imagines a best case scenario where people are forced to learn how to defend from radar missiles and that there is actually enough space on the map to do so. The problem with that scenario is the game cannot handle maps larger than we already have...at least that has been stated by Gaijin in the past. And the other problem is that people are imagining matches with lower player density. They don't imagine the just as plausible scenario where the player density and team balance means that one side will never be in a position good enough to defend from radar missiles launched from multiple angles. Or that the game just doesn't further devolve into a coin toss with RWR blaring at all times and just having a perpetual creeping ARH missiles fired from too many angles to defend from. At that point the game might just turn into trying to get as many missiles off before you inevitably die... basically just an artillery duel but in the air. Now as far as the accuracy of the flight models...that is a very touchy subject because there are varying definitions of what constitutes accuracy...and people will go out of their way to defend whatever odd approximations that Gaijin has made because the flight models match some of the known data points. This is exactly what happened with the Gripen flight model. There are only 3 or 4 known points and the rest of the flight model is just a form of guesswork. For instance the only known points about Gripen turn performance is a sustained rate of around 20 degrees per second...and an instantaneous turn rate of around 30 degrees per second. There are no data points on bleed rates...so the planes bleed rate in-game was initially released at basically 1/3rd that of the F-16A. The same issue applies to Su-27...except even more egregiously. It's known points are similar to Gripen...30 degrees ITR and around 20 sustained....except it's bleed rate is higher than even the F-15A. And this has pretty drastic effects on how useful the flight model is in the game. IRL the Royal Thai Air Force participated in a red flag like exercise against the PLAAF and the J-11. The results of the exercise was basically that the Gripen was much better in BVR but was also much worse in BFM. Gripen fans will claim the comparison IRL isn't fair because the Thai Gripens didn't have HOBS capable missiles...and had Aim-9L as its IR missile. Except that is basically the exact same scenario as we currently have in the game...heck the Thai 9Ls might even be 9L(I) which is the 9L body with the 9M seeker on it. Gripen vs Su-27 in-game is just the Su-27 being obliterated in 2 turns and eating guns.
@user-jy6cn3jy8g
@user-jy6cn3jy8g 3 ай бұрын
@@squishface80085 that’s actually exactly how I see perfect top tier SB. 😂 Larger maps with AWACS’s and realistic multipathing effect and much less amount of players. Basically DCS but… in WT
@rmz9054
@rmz9054 3 ай бұрын
su27 from what ive read is very very close to manual specs. only outlier ive seen is the oswald coefficient is like .44 vs the 0.71-0.75 that it should be, meaning that the su27 bleeds way more speed than it should in maneuvers.
@dazcookiez3714
@dazcookiez3714 3 ай бұрын
problem with the SU27 is that the instructor pulls on the manual controls SO much that it bleeds. in SIM it is way more manageable, since you can just not pull that hard. i've flown against a SU27 pilot, which i could only sometimes get guns on target with the gripen and GR7. mirage 2000, F16A, F15 were all struggling. i have no idea how he was flying. it was a pilotage mission on customs and he was so slippery. The flightmodel of the SU27 is okay. the F15 is artificially buffed, so is the F16A. F16C idk. a way it could work better is if SAS mode was added ontop of instructor in RB, limiting the SU27's AOA, making it retain more energy.
@squishface80085
@squishface80085 3 ай бұрын
This is done without any instructor limits because it's sim. Su-27 can hold turn rate at 850kph and hope other guy max pulls and runs out of energy. If the other guy doesn't do that...Su-27 copes. Or if other guy loses energy but gets position...Su-27 just copes.
@dazcookiez3714
@dazcookiez3714 3 ай бұрын
@@squishface80085 true i forgot you were in sim while dogfighting. but i agree, it is slightly worse than it should, while others are too good.
@xxragexx0275
@xxragexx0275 3 ай бұрын
I think in this video it's the guy flying it because I've came across good Su27 pilots
@squishface80085
@squishface80085 3 ай бұрын
It's not just the guy. Su-27 just gets slammed if the US player is aware of the limitations of the flight model.
@jordancourse5102
@jordancourse5102 3 ай бұрын
@@squishface80085 facts to win in the flanker you can't make any mistakes.
@ninjato5611
@ninjato5611 3 ай бұрын
If I see you on later, I'll fly an Su 27 you fly an F15. Guns only to test flightmodel performance in a guns fight. You'd shred me, unless I get lucky once or twice. Su 27/J-11 and MiG 29SMT FMs are 💩 The F16 is still overperforming in the AoA a bit and the Gripen is just total fantasy at the moment as you already know lol. Haven't really been looking into the Mirage's though. The only reason the MiG 29G is decent is because it's light like the MiG 29 (9.12/9.13) and has R73s unlike the (9.12/9.13) The only think keeping axis around is the 29G and axis NATO planes, like the Taiwanese F16A MLU, Japanese F15J then Swede Grippy and Franch Mirage's. Most Soviet players leave after getting packed. And I don't blame them. Which is why it's hard to find top tier matches most of the time unless France and Sweden are axis
@toyotawitha20mm35
@toyotawitha20mm35 2 ай бұрын
Yeah, seriously, you can instantly tell these people dont know how to dogfight when they think the SU-27 can win. ​@@squishface80085
@MikoyanAndGurevichAircraft
@MikoyanAndGurevichAircraft Ай бұрын
stupid question but whats the "cobra button"?
@jordancourse5102
@jordancourse5102 3 ай бұрын
I play the flanker ALOT. The flanker in the rate fight at around 850kph is good BUT everything you fight holds energy much better lol. I hope the FM is revised / buffed at least in terms of its slow speed maneuverability. The flanker should really be used for those high off boresight r73’s which does carry the plane. Guns only fight you’re at a significant disadvantage.
@toyotawitha20mm35
@toyotawitha20mm35 2 ай бұрын
Even with r73s it's complete garbage
@jordancourse5102
@jordancourse5102 2 ай бұрын
@@toyotawitha20mm35 depends on how fast you come into the merge. I usually come in at about 850-900 KPH and try my best not to go below 750 because then the retention just plummets. R73’s are really good. Most enemies don’t flare and maneuver to defeat them same with 9M flare and roll, change direction
@toyotawitha20mm35
@toyotawitha20mm35 2 ай бұрын
@@jordancourse5102 In 1v1 dogfights in the F-15 or F-16, I have NO issues completely avoiding R-73s I dont even flare and they never are able to reach me. R73s are worthless in a dogfight with the su 27s current FM. I want to dogfight and see what you mean by "R-73s are good in a dogfight", theoretically, if the SU-27 didn't lose 2x more speed in a turn than it should, then yes R-73s would be effective, but that's not how it is in game. R73s are a breeze to avoid in a dogfight In game username: AflyingPOTAT06, if you want, we can even join a match where you have infinite r73s you can spam at me, and I guarantee you none of them will hit, I dont bluff when I say I will beat you in any F-16 variant, or the F-15A 10 times out of 10, without losing once. I'm dead serious. And I'm not saying this as an ego boost, I'm saying it because that's how truly defenseless the SU-27 is in a 1v1 in its current state. At least in an RB duel.
@assisttaker9781
@assisttaker9781 18 күн бұрын
how do I invade your discord?
@krylatich
@krylatich 3 ай бұрын
Could you make a new discord link?
@squishface80085
@squishface80085 3 ай бұрын
Yeah I'll post one in community posts
@mbplaysgames
@mbplaysgames 3 ай бұрын
ARU TA TA! BE DE BE DE UNABORE! PREJEMA BETTY BUSHKA! PREJEMA UGOL ATAKI!
@Bobslon
@Bobslon 3 ай бұрын
11:20 - Beyblade
@Zminutes
@Zminutes 3 ай бұрын
im so shit at sim
@iansysoev9462
@iansysoev9462 3 ай бұрын
Well no shit, Su-27 is severely underperforming in the game due to balancing reasons, cos it has "OP" missiles
@squishface80085
@squishface80085 3 ай бұрын
There are plenty of people that still believe that is just as good as anything else as far as the flight model is concerned.
@iansysoev9462
@iansysoev9462 3 ай бұрын
​@@squishface80085 fanboys, what'd you expect. Also after reading your reply considering FM modelling in WT, mashed potatoes is the best way to describe it)
@its-butters58
@its-butters58 3 ай бұрын
Dont lie. You like doing it. Lol. Thanks for the kind words. I've learned every toxic thing i know from you ❤ EAGLE ON TOP
@thekirby53
@thekirby53 3 ай бұрын
if fox 2's were used in these, the flanker wins. in guns only, yea its at a big disadvantage because the early flankers have really bad energy retention, plus gayjin nerfed the FM, but the later engine/airframe upgrades changes this drastically. my pimax crystal and new hotas should be coming in next month, id be interested in doing sim duel with you. most my duels are in dcs, so itll be interesting to see how WT sim compares.
@squishface80085
@squishface80085 3 ай бұрын
R-73 doesn't change the results. It's relatively easy for any F-15, F-16, or Gripen to pre-flare the 73 or just fly around the aspect where the 73 will never even hit. Heck...one of the guys I play against has a way of defeating the 73 without using flares in most cases.
@thekirby53
@thekirby53 3 ай бұрын
@squishface80085 nah, unless your jamming the wez, which you never did, if you don't pre flare, you're dead most the time. Most means more than 50% of the time. I'd pay to see someone consistently dodge an r73 in a low energy state upclose 1.5km or less, without flares.
@squishface80085
@squishface80085 3 ай бұрын
@@thekirby53 The only thing that R-73 changes is that F-15 has to be a little more careful about it's relative position. The practical result is F-15 just uses it's energy to get behind the Su-27 first and then it just wins.
@its-butters58
@its-butters58 3 ай бұрын
​@@thekirby53r27 krutch cope is real
@thekirby53
@thekirby53 3 ай бұрын
@@squishface80085 if a flanker is sticking in a 2 circle fight, thats just wrong. the flanker should be forcing 1 circle fights and doing counter 2 circle tactics. itll mostly come down to the pilots tbh. once you get down to the deck though, unless the f15 pilot is just bad, the flanker will eventually get pulled into the hud an lose.
@haroonmaqshar1258
@haroonmaqshar1258 3 ай бұрын
the flanker wins in only the first turn after that the F15 can maintain higher speed and rate and slowly win the fight and the 27 cant do anything about it if you want a better rate fighter the 16C can hold rate and speed better than the 15A rn
@squishface80085
@squishface80085 3 ай бұрын
Su-27 doesn't even win first turn.
@haroonmaqshar1258
@haroonmaqshar1258 3 ай бұрын
@squishface80085 if you dump all your speed for AoA in the first turn the flanker gets it's nose around first compared to the f15 but after that your on like 200kph meanwhile the f15 is maintaining rate at 850kph due to its insane energy retention and acceleration
@its-butters58
@its-butters58 3 ай бұрын
@haroonmaqshar1258 come duel me in the f-15 vs f-15, i will still win this first turn and the fight if you believe what you're saying. Its wrong btw
@haroonmaqshar1258
@haroonmaqshar1258 3 ай бұрын
@its-butters58 I mean it's not wrong and I don't know what I said got you so upset for
@its-butters58
@its-butters58 3 ай бұрын
@haroonmaqshar1258 im not upset, you're just wrong. F15 still gets on first
@cookiecracker2
@cookiecracker2 3 ай бұрын
The su27s flight model is artificially nerfed, on the dev server it was miles better than it is now. Once we get ARH missiles I believe they may buff it. Hopefully a long with the mig29 as well, cause it's kinda sad. Also, the su27 is so bad at dog fighting a mig29 can beat it. (In arb I'm not a sim player)
@kingghidorah8106
@kingghidorah8106 3 ай бұрын
the mig21 smt can beat the su27 guaranteed even going one circle. But they have to nerf it in order to somewhat balance the absolute fuckfest that is the six E missiles (er or et or combinations) plus the four r73s, it's so on the face that i've come to think that now that the gripen is not as broken anymore is because it's addition was just a distraction from putin propaganda that ended with the tomcat and started with the addition of the r27er. I mean if the r27er had it's normal thrust values it would sit near the sparrow and the matra 530d making it balanced giving the edge to the britis with their dogshit platforms fully relying on their missiles since skyflash supertemp is the quickest sparrow - but according to gaijin who cares about dogfighting? The game focuses on air RB and if air RB soon becomes a SPAMRAAM party where your hornet yeets six aim120c's and the su35's launch six r77's and both go to the airfield after flying for barely 10 kilometers then who cares about dogfight performance? the meta of air RB past 10.0 is who can kill who the quickest while not having to engage at all, putting all the fighter mafia's creed apart and achieving to make it relevant only when the missiles are gone because the game's mechanic is basically huge maps with concentrated goals in the middile leading to a wall of death where the dogfighters have to rush from behind after skirting so that they can take a piece of the cake during the furballs.
@cookiecracker2
@cookiecracker2 3 ай бұрын
@@kingghidorah8106 oh yeah I absolutely agree with the first and second paragraph, however I would argue it's past 11.3-11.7 where people don't engage, I play f14 and M2k, and let me tell you I engage enemies a ton with guns, of course, dog fighting is rare because I always get third partied, so I don't stick around much. it's at 12.0-12.7 where missile thunder is the ABSOLUTE W O R S T imo. and ever since people have been screaming "WEHN AMRAAM!??!?!?!?" I've been not looking forward to it, because I know what kind of game wt is, and I know it's not ready, nor will it ever be ready for amraams, the maps, the game modes, the matchmaking, is not built for players to enjoy that. the only way to fix it is to lower the player count to 8v8 or 10v10, add 2 spawn points per team that are at least 40-50km away from each other (so sorta in the left and right corner of the map) that way it spreads the players out and forces them to use more of the map, instead of a mashup in the center with the more team with better missiles winning all the time (gee I wonder who that is?)
@kingghidorah8106
@kingghidorah8106 3 ай бұрын
@@cookiecracker2 the game is definitely prepared for the AMRAAM if it is considered ready for the hypersonic missile meta that has been going on for more than 10 months. Soviet mains also cry about the radars they have being bad, despite they have 180 degrees flat and (don't know how many degrees) but far more than NATO/ EU radars when it's the high and low aspect, American radars have a tiny frame and no track while search. And while I agree it's 11.7+ where it's exclusively missile thunder I still firmly believe that MiG21s and Kfirs are better for the sole fact they can just not engage and out climb everything while F-5s require people to engage prolonged
@WOLFER.
@WOLFER. 3 ай бұрын
5:20 to be fair the su27 irl has a very shitty energy retention, like its worse than the 29, and the 29 has decent energy retention but its bad compered to the 16 or 15, either way the point is still there.
@Registered_Simp
@Registered_Simp 3 ай бұрын
Su-27 vs. F-15 F-15: -Sustained turn rate -Energy retention -Control surface authority/responsiveness -Thrust to weight ratio Su-27: -Angle of attack -Instant pull at VERY slow speeds In real fights, the Su-27 only really has the Cobra + HMD R-73 to bank on. If it fails, you're dead. If you don't use it and you're opponent has competence and speed, you're eventually fucked.
@ghostscl1084
@ghostscl1084 3 ай бұрын
When an American main gets good "Russian bias" stops to exist.
@kingghidorah8106
@kingghidorah8106 3 ай бұрын
in dogfights US planes usually have a huge advantage over the soviets, i've dogfought flankers with the eagle and the eagle absolutely toys with them, the only times i've been killed was when i whiff the shot and crash on the ground. Just for the thrust alone the eagle stays on top. but let's get serious, air RB toptier wise the russians mostly win solely because their missiles arrive much quicker giving them ample time to stay away from any engagement. THis means they can stay slightly above treetop to apply some incidence onto the missile while the anemic nato/eu missiles take twice the time to arrive if they don't randomly run out of energy
@toyotawitha20mm35
@toyotawitha20mm35 2 ай бұрын
Even with r73s, the flanker litteraly cant possibly win against somone with even basic knowledge of 1v1 dogfighting. People who say "no, i beat f15s and f16s all the time" are going against 1v1 noobs that hahe no clue what they are doing. The flanker should be almost on par with the current f-16A in a dogfight, instead it's the worst flught model at top tier. -​@kingghidorah8106
@kingghidorah8106
@kingghidorah8106 2 ай бұрын
@@toyotawitha20mm35 anything can stay out of the WEZ (weapon engagement zone) of the su27 (this is from behind it's wings) and there's no chance an r73 is going to hit you, besides these missiles tend to fail when up close and thrust vectoring. They're much more effective when thrust vectoring is not applied, for some weird reason.
@JorgingMyShit
@JorgingMyShit 3 ай бұрын
ok but BIG SUKA SUKHOI
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