Benjamín Labatut: When We Cease to Understand the World & The MANIAC

  Рет қаралды 3,808

Leaf by Leaf

Leaf by Leaf

3 ай бұрын

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@JulioVirrueta
@JulioVirrueta 3 ай бұрын
I read Maniac during the holidays, and When We Cease to Understand the World (a title I jokingly disagree with for professional reasons) about a year ago. As a theoretical physicist, I am often of two minds about Labatut. On the one hand, I agree with your read of him and highly appreciate his writing, on the other I can't avoid feeling he overly dramatizes his subjects, But then I stop myself and think that the reason I have that opinion is because he writes from an outsiders perspective about math and physics and reading him renews my sense of wonder (and a bit of fear) about science. Definitely a thought-provoking author.
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
Ah, yes--I found myself wondering what people from inside the world of math and physics think of him. Though he does imbue his books with the journalist's flourishes (as you've said) and does do some things to balance the scales of science's good v. bad, I think it's safe to say the book's have a predominant feeling of such disciplines leading to disasters. Though, at the same time, it seems clear that the disasters result primary from defense arms of governments swooping in and siphoning off of the brilliant minds. As you say: definitely thought-provoking. If not for anything else, the dramatization is catching people's attention about math and science unlike most other books on the subjects. Thanks so much for offering your informed opinion!
@EarlofRochester
@EarlofRochester 3 ай бұрын
Book Buyers! Love that place. And the subgenre of Biographical Thriller is something I didn't realize I needed.
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
Nor I! And it's different from the true-crime biopic of the New Journalism, like _In Cold Blood_ and _The Executioner's Song_ , too. Wish I'd said that in the video.
@A_Waste_of_Skin
@A_Waste_of_Skin 3 ай бұрын
Wonderful reviews. :) Both books were my favorites of all the ones I read in the respective years they were published. I was absolutely blown away by the opening part of When we cease [..] and its wonderful use of association and scientific facts. The Maniac I found even better. Read it in one day. Then read it again and was even more impressed. Labatut makes it feel as if scientific discovery is something out of an H.P. Lovecraft novel.
@MaximTendu
@MaximTendu 3 ай бұрын
Wow. I just got myself a copy of The Maniac, as I know very little about Von Neumann and this book sounds super-exciting. As for Grothendieck, he really was too cool to be true. Among his many feats, he taught Algebraic Topology in the middle of the war in Thái Nguyên Forest to Ms Hoàng Xuân Sính, who later compiled the first French-Vietnamese mathematical dictionary and founded the first private university here in Vietnam. Not only did he teach for free but, once back to Paris, he sold his Fields medal and donated the prize money to help raise a fund for Vietnam. After seeing him mentioned in The Passenger and Stella Maris, I can't wait to learn more about him so, once again, thank you for the double treat, Mr Benjamín Labatut, and thanks so much for the review, dear Chris: this Year Of The Dragon is going to start with a bang! ( 24:47 Oh, I need to watch that documentary myself. I hope it didn't exempt you from watching Fanny And Alexander, as is tradition 😝 )
@mrdkal5892
@mrdkal5892 3 ай бұрын
I read these last year and have been hoping you'd make a video on them ever since. It's my lucky day!
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
Glad I could oblige! Great, great books!
@samueljackson9147
@samueljackson9147 3 ай бұрын
Am glad to see a video on Labatut, I absolutely loved Maniac and nearly read the whole thing in one sitting.
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
Skål !
@Paromita_M
@Paromita_M 3 ай бұрын
Long comment alert 🤣 I read MANIAC on my own, I think through some random rabbit hole through reddit threads starting with my search "books like Borges' fiction". MANIAC was a very good book - loved Ehrenfest, von Neumann part so-so, the third part was a miss for me - didn't "get" it. And so while Ehrenfest part set me up with the expectation for a brilliant read, I felt underwhelmed by the final part and put off Where We Cease... (This was like a month ago btw so not too far back) Cut to today. Your new video notification pops up. I listen to the first few lines. And I pause it and get the ebook of Where We Cease...I sat and read it today, I could not put it down and I loved it so much. Brilliant and humane, exhilarating but humbling, thought-provoking, the zenith and nadir of scientific progress. Schwarzchild section - the comparison of the singularity to human psyche in the land they were in then? When I got to the Solvay Conference, I was overwhelmed. This is why I pursued physics and why even after failing to become a good scientist, physics holds that allure for me more than any subject. The last part, The Night Gardener, as you said, it was unexpected. And then I realised, how beautifully Labatut brought it together. Ah, perfection for me. Thank you for discussing these books, what can I say. May you remain blessed and continue to share your enthusiasm for books that impact you. Two random thoughts: 1) I know commenters mentioned Solenoid (which I liked a lot) but for me what I was reminded of, especially in the Heart of the Heart section, was Stella Maris. I liked Alicia, I liked the last lines (especially as those are now McCarthy 's last lines to us) but I think Labatut brought it all together better. Of course you can say McCarthy was trying to investigate the conundrum at the heart of quantum mechanics, Labatut was merely telling us about it but I think there is a powerful humility in acknowledging that perhaps there aren't no words to truly express these philosophical underpinnings at the heart of QM, there is no "resolution", "shut up and calculate" might be oversimplification but its not totally wrong. 2) I want to convey my regards to you especially for the restraint and circumspect ability you have to select what you want to discuss on your channel. You read a lot, I am sure you get pulled in many directions and all seem interesting, but to select what might be worthwhile despite all that, to separate the signal from the noise and then amplify it via the discussion on your channel - massive respect for that. Funny postscript (promise I am done after this) - I heard about the Discord pretty much the day it was announced and still do not have the courage to join. 🤣 I know you will be encouraging but hear me out please: I am simply not erudite enough. I love reading murder mysteries and fantasy, some science fiction, alongside literary fiction and classics, I have terrible opinions on some well-acclaimed masterpieces. But in the meantime, congratulations on starting this new community and best wishes to all. Happy reading and looking forward to the next discussion with keen interest. 👋
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
I welcome long comments! In general, and I hope this doesn’t sound patronizing, the third part was about showing how von Neumann’s ideas and groundwork have set the stage for an unprecedented breakthrough in AI (that being the stuff that drives the AlphaGo AI), and how even that has already been surpassed, less than a decade later, by an even more powerful AI, AlphaZero, that is somehow more powerful despite (because of?) its lack of human-sourced learning material. You could watch the AlphaGo documentary (as I did, not knowing I’d be reading this book thereafter) and see if they adds to it. I will also say that When We Cease… is much more compact, lean, and hard-hitting than Maniac. OK, I probably should have read your second paragraph before responding to the first one. I see now that you likely meant something else by not getting the third panel of The Maniac’s triptych. And you’ve also now read his earlier book to great enthusiasm. I share your feelings with it. Reading it was like a revelation! I remember reading the Solvay proceedings gripping the book like it was a pulse-pounding horror thriller. I’m so happy you took the chance on it and loved it. And I do feel blessed that I could kindle that interest in some way. Definitely strong Stella Maris vibes. Absolutely. The failure of language to express the mathematical epiphanies of those who study quantum mechanics at the deepest levels is rendered beautifully by Labatut in his earlier book. The saga of Schrodinger and Heisenberg. Heisenberg’s clunky, overly obfuscated equations versus Schrodinger’s accessible and elegant metaphors. Yet, even after Heisenberg went off the map of human cognition and thought through things in a quantum manner and then returned with the fire-the end result of the two minds led to the same thing. Wild! Thanks so much for your appreciation of what I do here. It’s definitely an act of curation in a way because I can’t make videos on everything I read, even though I’d like to. And, like you’ve surmised, I am flooded with books and requests, and so I have to be, unfortunately, very selective. In that spirit, I am trying to be even more rigorous with what I choose to video this year. And I can tell you that I’ve got some serious treasure on the way for we readers and thinkers and feelers! OK, as concerns the Discord, I, of course, respect whatever your decision is. But (you called it that this was coming) I will tell you that there are all kinds of great people already in there and there is a lot of discussion of sci-fi and fantasy. I personally would like to improve my knowledge of genre fiction and I need to hear from people who read it! It’s not a think tank of people who are conversing in Latin and Greek and unlocking hidden codes and Shakespeare and using unknown Arabic philosophy manuscripts to solve the Riemann Hypothesis! It’s truly just a lot of people who like to read and like to talk about any and every thing to do with reading. If you have the thought that you’re “not erudite enough” then I need to rethink what I’m doing on this channel! Convinced? 😊 All best to you and yours!
@Paromita_M
@Paromita_M 3 ай бұрын
@@LeafbyLeaf Last part reply first: yes convinced! The part about Latin and Greek had me chuckling because of The Secret History by Donna Tartt, she satirises this a bit in that book (although many take it as an endorsement) 🤭 Not patronising at all - you are right, in MANIAC, those transitions are precisely what I struggled with. Didn't read synopsis or Goodreads reviews, just jumped in. Ehrenfest part, I was mesmerised. I also really appreciated how he chose to cover Ehrenfest (unlike all the titans discussed in When We Ceased to Understand The World section or even Heart of the Heart (though I never knew about these mathematicians) and Schwarzchild Singularity, Ehrenfest's theorem gets a bit overlooked. But I think it's really powerful because in one single equation, we get the analogous connection to classical mechanics (especially if we take the Hamiltonian/Poisson Bracket approach but even directly with Newton's Second Law of Motion) while simultaneously the expectation values indicate the probabilities inherent to the quantum world. Anyway, I loved that part. von Neumann part started off interesting and then it petered off a bit for me. Although as I'm writing this, I'm wondering whether we can gauge a sort of thematic parallel between Prussian Blue section in Where We... and von Neumann section in MANIAC. Sure the former was an actual chemical weapon but it was also a fertiliser. In the latter, the "weaponising" is yet to play out and I don't think Labatut is an alarmist by any means, but we are seeing some negative feedback such as the proliferation of AI art using original artwork from artists (not copyrighted). So like with any technology or more generally scientific advancement, how we choose to utilise it is perhaps always going to be a double-edged sword - why we need works such as Labatut's, science tempered by ethics (a conscience), investment in literature and more broadly the arts in parallel with science and technology. Whoops long tangent. Sorry I have a small final one. You mentioned what you would love to see Labatut cover. It reminded me of Royal Society shenanigans (Newton vs Leibnitz) in Quicksilver, Book 1 of the Baroque Cycle by Neal Stephenson. I was loving that book then some pirate story came in and Royal Society fun was gone. I think it would be awesome to read about the Renaissance era scientific advancements by Labatut. Or as you said Tesla et al - electromagnetism was the only unified theory for a long time until Salam et al did the electroweak one. Glorious but nothing can match the Solvay Conference. I was elated when reading that chapter... Happy reading and looking forward to everything you have lined up for us readers and viewers!
@adampearson1541
@adampearson1541 3 ай бұрын
Just finished the Maniac two days ago. Absolutely fantastic. I can see a lot of people thinking the final act (concerning AlphaGo) is weaker than the preceding chapters but it had me completely gripped. It’s the pre-apocalyptic climax built up by the groundwork of Von Neumann. Anything this author publishes in English is an automatic day of release purchase for me from this point on, and there are very few contemporary authors I can say that about.
@jdfromparis6230
@jdfromparis6230 3 ай бұрын
Ah, yes, the alphago documentary is great. Even for a non player. And you just sold me on this author I had never heard of. Tu es un passeur Chris!
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
Merci, JD! Yes, and I consider myself very much a non-player. I've tried to learn Go several times and it is totally baffling. I think I've managed to capture one enemy stone against the lowest-level AI! Honestly, if you're interested at all in science/physics/mathematics/computers/AI from the last couple centuries--and if you enjoyed the AlphaGo documentary--then, yes, you very much will love these books!
@bluewordsme2
@bluewordsme2 3 ай бұрын
read Labatut....an essential writer...start with his first
@jdfromparis6230
@jdfromparis6230 3 ай бұрын
@@LeafbyLeaf I've tried playing Go, and it's definitely a wonderful game, but for some reason it doesn't really agree with me. Chess, on the other hand, is quite my jam. And yes, I'm interested in science/physics/mathematics/computers/AI from the last couple centuries--and I enjoyed the AlphaGo documentary, so I'll love these books, I'm sure. Thank you for your service Admiral Leaf.
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
@jdfromparis6230 hey! Same here! I love chess!
@Etherchannel
@Etherchannel 3 ай бұрын
So happy to see a video of this one. This book is an absolute masterpiece.
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
Agreed!
@gronskeibooks
@gronskeibooks 3 ай бұрын
There are very few authors I would put my life on hold for, so that's very high praise indeed. I was already sold on this author before that testimonial! Great review.
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
Same here! Thanks!
@shanerand
@shanerand 3 ай бұрын
So hyped that you started the Discord! I think that space is going to be cherished by so many people, myself included. WWCTUTW was incredible but I haven’t gotten around to The Maniac - going to use this video as inspiration to put it right to the top of my TBR after I finish The Apple in the Dark (which is phenomenal). Cheers Chris!
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
Thanks so much! Did you get that new reissue of AITD from New Directions? That cover is sublime!
@cristinaa3186
@cristinaa3186 3 ай бұрын
When we cease… was one of my best reads a couple years ago, I’m looking forward to having the time to immerse myself into the Maniac. I must add that I found that some parts of Solenoid and Sebald’s works share this fantastic blend of math history and fiction; this might be becoming a new genre
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
Labatut has cited Sebald as an inspiration several times. Yes, as AI continues to dominate our world-technocracy, math, I think, will begin to be a source of wonder and investigation for writers.
@erharuspex
@erharuspex 2 ай бұрын
I can’t believe you read When We Cease… essentially in one sitting. I could only read a few pages at a time… too many thoughts just buzzing around my brain. I absolutely loved it.
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 2 ай бұрын
To be clear, that sitting was about 5 hours long (I read pretty slowly), but, yeah, I couldn't put it down. I was rapt!
@meyersmegafictionalmusings7692
@meyersmegafictionalmusings7692 3 ай бұрын
Very glad to hear you enjoyed The Maniac like I did! Truly incredible! I’ve yet to get to his first but think I’ll go buy it now.. 👏🏻
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
Hip--hip-hooray!
@ELECDUBMETAL
@ELECDUBMETAL 3 ай бұрын
Hey, Chris. Great review as always. I've read both books. They have something very special: they translate a myriad of battles that constitute the great war of humans for transparency; but they do so, which is special, from the standpoint of one who knows that we cannot at all relinquish the veils: they constitute the very transparency for which we fight; behind it there is nothing: it is the horror of infinite empty spaces. Anyway, for a certain number of reasons, some of them also obscure (ahaha), I am now fairly convinced that the next book will be about George Boole!!! Cheers, Tiago.
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 2 ай бұрын
Thanks! Love your striking formulations here! And, I say--bring on the Boole! (Either it will be Boole or it won't be Boole. That's my joke for today!)
@marinellamaccagni6951
@marinellamaccagni6951 3 ай бұрын
Hi chris! After having seen this video, I have decided to start reading labatut's books that have been sitting on my shelf for too long. Thanks for your amazing video. Have a great day!
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
Prego prego !
@MarcNash
@MarcNash 3 ай бұрын
I have always been deeply skeptical about journalists who turn their hand to fiction, as usually their language and formalism are so far removed from being literary. But I would make an exception for Labatut
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
I hear what you're saying, but I agree that you should give Labatut a pass. Let me know what you think!
@MarcNash
@MarcNash 3 ай бұрын
@@LeafbyLeaf Oh no Chris, I've read and loved both precisely because he paying attention to formal aspects of style! He is honouring the novel
@ilya1046
@ilya1046 3 ай бұрын
I loved both of these books! Labatut accomplishes writing novels about science which feel like page-turners.
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
Exactly! Is your profile picture of Cloud Gate in Chicago?
@ilya1046
@ilya1046 3 ай бұрын
Yes! Cloud Gate or The Bean as some call it.@@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
@ilya1046 wicked! I’ve been there! 🙌
@nicholaslornadek8234
@nicholaslornadek8234 3 ай бұрын
Labatut did a conference last month with one of my creative writing professors (Paolo Giordano, writer and phd in physics) and it was really interesting. Maniac is also a mastercalss in the economy of writing, how he glides from a point to another, an incredible work of hetero-fiction.
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
I would love to have attended that conference!
@timkjazz
@timkjazz 3 ай бұрын
Just ordered both books, can't wait to read them both, sound fascinating. Also - 'Suttree', can't get any better than it, a fantastic novel, great choice, can't wait for it.
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
Awesome! Let me know what you think. And-yes-how lucky am I to land on Suttree for this year’s SWP?!
@timkjazz
@timkjazz 3 ай бұрын
Suttree is a titanic novel, worth every tree to print it.@@LeafbyLeaf
@michaelmasiello6752
@michaelmasiello6752 3 ай бұрын
Well, various algorithms have been urging me to attend to Labatut for some time now. Maybe it’s time I pay attention! Wonderful video. Unrelated question obliquely prompted by this excellent video: have you read Michael Cisco’s Animal Money? A crazy-quilt maximalist fantasia with its roots in the math-driven world of economics, it seems like a worthy entry for LxL. And Suttree! How exciting. My favorite McCarthy novel, and that’s saying something…
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
And algorithms can't be wrong, right? I mean, we train them with our own behavior! :) No, I haven't read the Cisco but your succinct description sells it pretty strongly!
@ryanthegreat805
@ryanthegreat805 3 ай бұрын
This video is a dream come true
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
:):):)
@editx7650
@editx7650 3 ай бұрын
Hi Enjoy you content very much ! I would like to see a serie off the author Pär Lagerkvist. Keep the good content flow Thanks
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
Thanks so much! Do you have a recommended starting point for Pär Lagerkvist?
@xgryphenx
@xgryphenx 3 ай бұрын
Labatut is great, and if you like this style you have to read Eliot Weinberger's essays. Karmic Traces is a perfect starting point. I would not be surprised if Labatut was informed by him-he is much more popular in Latin America than the US.
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
Prepare not to be surprised: “When we discussed books that he did like, he pointed me away from contemporary fiction and toward inter-genre writers like Pascal Quignard, Roberto Calasso, W.G. Sebald, and Eliot Weinberger, all of whom I read with pleasure, hoping to establish a common ground.” From the Adam Dalva piece on Labatut on LitHub
@xgryphenx
@xgryphenx 3 ай бұрын
@@LeafbyLeafhaha i really didn’t read that piece before commenting on the EW connection.
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
@xgryphenx I believe you! And thanks for the recommendations!
@nikkivenable73
@nikkivenable73 3 ай бұрын
I am so tempted by these books…but I’m not good at math or science so will these books be way over my head? I’m used to reading classics and deep reading, or I think so, but why do I get the feeling these will go over my unscientific head? All that said, I’m in absolute awe of those great minds who are the greatest minds known to us, like Einstein etc. and wish I could understand way more than I do.
@adampearson1541
@adampearson1541 3 ай бұрын
I failed almost every math and science class I had to take in school, and his book (I’ve only read the Maniac) did not go over my head.
@nikkivenable73
@nikkivenable73 3 ай бұрын
@@adampearson1541 ok, thank you! I just bought it.
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
@nikkivenable73 I totally agree with @adampearson1541 and I'm glad you went for it! I also highly recommend the essays of Jim Holt if you're interested in deepening your awe for such minds without being able to speak their language.
@nikkivenable73
@nikkivenable73 3 ай бұрын
@@LeafbyLeaf oh nice! I’ll go look for those essays right now!
@jamesgwarrior1981
@jamesgwarrior1981 3 ай бұрын
Unfamiliar with Labatut but sounds that disappointment would be avoided if chose to partake 🤔
@LeafbyLeaf
@LeafbyLeaf 3 ай бұрын
I think it's disappointment-proof.
ranking every piece of classic literature I read in 2023! 👀
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