Bergmann 1908, 1910, and 1910/21 Pistols

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Forgotten Weapons

Forgotten Weapons

Күн бұрын

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By the time Bergmann found a production subcontractor in AEP for the Spanish order of 1903 Bergmann pistol, the Spanish had added a few new changes to their order, which became known as the Model 1908. In addition to filling the Spanish production, AEP also sold the guns on the commercial market fairly successfully, under their Bayard trademark.
In 1910 an order was placed by the Danish government, with a few additional changes to the design (improved mainspring, magazine well cutouts to better grip the magazines, larger grips, etc) which became the Model 1910. AEP would institute these changes into their commercial guns as well as producing 4800 for Denmark. Production continued for civilian sales during German occupation in World War One, but ended after the war due to a lack of demand.
When Denmark began to run low of spare parts and wanted more pistols in 1921, they made yet more changes (primarily a much better set of grips and a non-reversible locking block to simplify reassembly) and put the new Model 1910/21 into production domestically. These would be the highest production evolution of the design, and are very nice sidearms, despite being bulky, heavy, poorly balanced, and low capacity in comparison to the other handguns then available on the market.

Пікірлер: 289
@jamest.harnden3659
@jamest.harnden3659 7 жыл бұрын
I don't care what anyone else says I have loved this entire Bergman series. Please continue bringing us development histories from other interesting arms.
@M0torsagmannen
@M0torsagmannen 7 жыл бұрын
finding a place that have all iterations of a gun to compare side by side is really rare though, but i agree. this is my favourite series of videos from this channel so far
@swillm3ister
@swillm3ister 2 жыл бұрын
Me too, this was incredible
@shugo541
@shugo541 7 жыл бұрын
Ian stop, we think you need help. Professional help. You've become a Bergmannaholic
@ForgottenWeapons
@ForgottenWeapons 7 жыл бұрын
I can stop any time I want!
@shugo541
@shugo541 7 жыл бұрын
haha that's what all addicts say!
@Jesses001
@Jesses001 7 жыл бұрын
I think it might be communicable. I knew a little bit about the Bergman pistols before, but now that I have a lot more information, I feel....I feel the itch! I need one!
@falloutghoul1
@falloutghoul1 7 жыл бұрын
"I got a fever! And the only cure is more Bergmann!"
@alcedob.5850
@alcedob.5850 5 жыл бұрын
They are very beautiful and charming so I think it's ok. Or maybe I am addicted too?
@md_vandenberg
@md_vandenberg 7 жыл бұрын
"I hope you guys enjoyed this as much as I did." Ian, we all know it's impossible for us to enjoy this as much as you. Keep up the excellent work!
@scullystie4389
@scullystie4389 7 жыл бұрын
The auction house owner is like, "Gun Jesus, we love having you here, but if you could please stop turning water into Bergmann's, we'd appreciate it."
@ruffthecrimedog
@ruffthecrimedog 7 жыл бұрын
My Arab friend translated the Arabic gold inlay on the last pistol to say 'Beware, strength consists in archery', an Islamic Hadith.
@funshootin1
@funshootin1 7 жыл бұрын
the Bergman channel! not complaining we all now have a PhD in Bergmans
@indiequas
@indiequas 7 жыл бұрын
I bet I could make this gun at this point.
@robertallen9472
@robertallen9472 7 жыл бұрын
remember that gun that tried to contest the c96 broomhandle? Bergmann farm remembers
@dndboy13
@dndboy13 7 жыл бұрын
oh dang ma, hurry up Bergmann's World is on.
@bennyboy2277
@bennyboy2277 7 жыл бұрын
I think I actually prefer the later model bergmann's over the c96 Mauser, especially the 1910/21.
@jasondoe2596
@jasondoe2596 7 жыл бұрын
Walter White yeah, the 1910/21 looks sweet with a wooden grip - I much prefer its looks to the very early models. Also, the stock attachment seems greatly improved.
@Jesses001
@Jesses001 7 жыл бұрын
I kind of like them too. They are a bit smaller then the Mauser, and a detachable magazine means a lot. The detachable magazine C96s are rare to say the least.
@smaqdaddy
@smaqdaddy 3 жыл бұрын
I love these! What do they normally sell for? Or are there good repos?
@BigWheel.
@BigWheel. Жыл бұрын
The grips look much more comfortable.
@karlbush1678
@karlbush1678 Жыл бұрын
They do have a good look to them. They might really be better looking than the Broomhandle.
@bofoenss8393
@bofoenss8393 7 жыл бұрын
In the recent Danish movie 9. April detailing the events of the German invasion of Denmark in April 1940, on the eve of the battle you see an officer preparing and loading a Bergmann pistol. I just don't remember whether it is a 1910 or 1910/21. Also, the movie is notable for its use of Danish Krag Jørgensen rifles, Madsen light machine guns and the 20 mm Madsen auto cannon mounted on Nimbus motorbikes. Only weapon out of place is an MG 42 which I suspect was due to inability to find a working MG 34.
@CEngelbrecht
@CEngelbrecht 5 жыл бұрын
In a key scene, a German armored car has a proper MG34, while a German motorcycle has the MG42. I'm telling myself, it's an MG34. www.imfdb.org/wiki/April_9th That site lists the pistol as the M1910/21. Damn good film. Depressing, but damn good. Catch it, if you can.
@silvesby
@silvesby 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent film, that one
@TazzeOptical
@TazzeOptical 7 жыл бұрын
at this point I'm gonna start referring to Ian as "The BergMan(n)"
@kobathor
@kobathor 7 жыл бұрын
I can't wait for the sequel! Bergmann 2: Electric Boogaloo
@bwcmakro
@bwcmakro 7 жыл бұрын
This is now the Forgotten Bergmanns channel.
@Sherrard50
@Sherrard50 7 жыл бұрын
I loved the whole Bergmann Series Ian, great work as always!
@GinSoakedBoy
@GinSoakedBoy 7 жыл бұрын
Probably the coolest of the Bergman bunch. Thanks for this terrific series, Ian
@fuzzy1dk
@fuzzy1dk 7 жыл бұрын
"hærens tøjhus" basically translates to "the army's armory/arsenal"
@foughtwolf
@foughtwolf 7 жыл бұрын
Ive been waiting for this. The 1910/21 is without a doubt my favorite pistol, it looks so perfect.
@pakman422
@pakman422 7 жыл бұрын
Awesome series Ian! Congrats on 400k subscribers! You sure do deserve it. Keep up the great work! - Jacob S.
@fingersmcgillicuddy
@fingersmcgillicuddy 7 жыл бұрын
Great series Ian, thank you!
@AlwayzPr0
@AlwayzPr0 7 жыл бұрын
This guy just never stopped.
@dndboy13
@dndboy13 7 жыл бұрын
They say hes still making Bergmann videos to this day.
@matthewkirk
@matthewkirk 4 жыл бұрын
Never stop never stopping
@lucky43113
@lucky43113 7 жыл бұрын
these are the videos that never ends yes it goes on and on my friend
@pLAST3RdISAST3R
@pLAST3RdISAST3R 5 жыл бұрын
Someone started playing it, not knowing what it was, then they just kept watching them because, because, because!
@drmaudio
@drmaudio 7 жыл бұрын
That is quite an expansive Bergmann collection.
@krmould
@krmould 7 жыл бұрын
I had an opportunity to purchase a 1910 Bergmann Bayard just over a year ago. I passed on it, mainly because I didn't know much about it or the 9mm Bergmann cartridge. If I had seen this series before that opportunity, I think I would have spent the money and bought the gun as a collector's piece. Now I know what an amazing firearm it is and will keep an eye open for a future opportunity.
@RussellSorrow
@RussellSorrow 7 жыл бұрын
I really like the series progression. I would love to see more of these series like this on other models as well. Keep up the great work.
@453421abcdefg12345
@453421abcdefg12345 7 жыл бұрын
Yet another excellent video! I do not think we can get enough of these videos on what are very rare pistols, the world is full of videos on the more popular, (boring) guns that have been churned out by the million, I can see no gain to anyone in producing yet more duplicate information on these. The Bergmann, on the other hand is very sparsely covered in video or book form, so this short series is most welcome, the only down side of this short series of videos is that it is going to push the already high price of these gems up even further among men of good taste.
@deceptivepanther
@deceptivepanther 7 жыл бұрын
I was wondering if there are historical accounts of how these later Bergmanns fared in service? They look pretty decent but were they reliable? Officers of the period often supplied their own side-arm; were Bergmanns a popular choice or had Mauser cornered the market?
@lancerevell5979
@lancerevell5979 4 жыл бұрын
The Bergmann-Bayard series are one of my favorite pistol designs. Very cool video.
@2goXD
@2goXD 7 жыл бұрын
Hey i would just like to put this out. Your videos are really interesting to watch, lots of intreresting information, history facts and little details you mention (really appreciate that). Also i really love the way you talk, it is really visible you love to do this and know a ton about this. So ye... really cool quality content, i have to say. I absolutely fell in love with your channel :) Keep up the good work Mister !
@gpnatale
@gpnatale Жыл бұрын
Very appreciated series!
@ant4812
@ant4812 7 жыл бұрын
Thanks for these videos Ian. I've had a thing for Bergmanns for a long time. Thanks also to the anonymous Bergmann addict who made these pistols available.
@hjorturerlend
@hjorturerlend 7 жыл бұрын
"Hærens Tøjhus" means "the Army Armoury" - don´t think it was a company x)
@Unit2x10
@Unit2x10 7 жыл бұрын
hjorturerlend also Tøjhus and Rustkammer (the second manufacturer) basically means the same in Danish so it is most likely the same place.
@jacobvsest
@jacobvsest 7 жыл бұрын
And "Heeres-Rüstkammer" is a German translation of "Hærens Tøjhus" ;)
@stephenwoods4118
@stephenwoods4118 7 жыл бұрын
That is a really awesome collection.
@michaelashton8754
@michaelashton8754 7 жыл бұрын
Loved this series dude :) Would love to get my hands on that 1910 model!
@jeremiasastorga8399
@jeremiasastorga8399 7 жыл бұрын
11:00 1910 military don't- 1910 military don't- 1910 military don't want none unless it can be stocked hun!
@corneliusloewenstein8691
@corneliusloewenstein8691 3 жыл бұрын
Ian is the Man... so knowledgeable and educated in all aspects of the guns he talks about.
@LifeStyle-uh1ns
@LifeStyle-uh1ns 7 жыл бұрын
Just watched all of them in a single sitting. I feel I am all Bergmanned out. However, such an interesting video series. Thank you for doing this series Ian. I think you set the bar on info for these pistols on KZfaq.... You should make a Bergmann coffee table book now!
@natemmerson6849
@natemmerson6849 7 жыл бұрын
love the bergmann pistols, especially the older models. kind of look like a cross between a c96 and a p08, the mauser action with the lugers barrel. They really give off the vibe of the signature gun of the big bad guy from a movie, very cool
@dennishein2812
@dennishein2812 3 жыл бұрын
If we ever get time travel I’m going to get the best gun collection anyone’s ever seen. Thanks to Ian I know which ones to get and the places and years to find them. I’ll stock up on ammo too. I can’t wait.
@woongah
@woongah Жыл бұрын
The more I see them, the more I like these Bergmann pistols. Especially the last Danish-produced ones, more so with the bigger wooden grips. Some sexy guns. Thanks Ian for letting me know them.
@Dja05
@Dja05 7 жыл бұрын
I'm actually from Liège, and I have no idea how to pronounce "pieper" :v.
@Dja05
@Dja05 7 жыл бұрын
I shall drink ALL THE BEER until I can !
@robertpatter5509
@robertpatter5509 5 күн бұрын
Pee Per.
@Sofus.
@Sofus. 7 жыл бұрын
Fun fact. The Danish military bought the replacement gun in 1949 (M/49-SIG 210-Neuhausen). Denmark has just decided, to look for a replacement. After 68 years of service, estimated arrival in 2019.
@gewamser
@gewamser 7 жыл бұрын
Well I want one now! I admire the machining.
@willybee3056
@willybee3056 7 жыл бұрын
From those of us that love reading encyclopedia. .. You do a great job... And are appriciated... tanx....
@billmccrackin8825
@billmccrackin8825 4 жыл бұрын
Such cool pistols.
@sepatten
@sepatten 7 жыл бұрын
Great show Ian. I have an AEP 10/21, and my father has a Bayard marked "1912" model. I handload 9mm Largo and we shoot them sparingly. I would shoot mine more, but as you know, there are no spare parts out there; sad. I need to get on the patreon team as Forgotten weapons is really putting out the most unique content on KZfaq.
@turbowolf302
@turbowolf302 7 жыл бұрын
huh. I actually have the OTHER AEP Bayard, a little .32 pocket pistol. I knew the Model 1908 was shared between my little pistol and this one, didn't know it was a Spanish military contract. Neat to know.
@phoenixrising4573
@phoenixrising4573 7 жыл бұрын
anyone else catch on that the pistol in John Wayne's Big Jake featured one of these? One of my favorite western movies, and a dear memory of my father as a child. I never new they where real!
@phoenixrising4573
@phoenixrising4573 7 жыл бұрын
I missed the comment on the original one, but it makes sense. Still funny to see that a gun I thouh was a made up name all these years was quite real
@pakman422
@pakman422 7 жыл бұрын
The prop was a Walther P38 made to look like a Bergmann 1896. One of my favorite John Wayne movies also.
@phoenixrising4573
@phoenixrising4573 7 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@davidbrennan660
@davidbrennan660 3 жыл бұрын
Four years in the future he still has not kicked the habit.
@jimh6763
@jimh6763 3 жыл бұрын
Love those guns. Very futuristic! Would love to have one. Lots of similarity to the c96 mauser, but looks like it would handle better.
@FoxMacLeod2501
@FoxMacLeod2501 2 жыл бұрын
16:36 "Did you get the Danish version?" "No such lug, my friend."
@dsfs17987
@dsfs17987 6 жыл бұрын
that safety lever change discussed at around 8:00 mark looks to be something more, look at the grip location, it is not just shorter, it is sort moved higher up to be more in line with the barrel, and as a result, the safety lever went up and the throw got reduced
@beardo52
@beardo52 3 жыл бұрын
The 1910/21 was my favorite among the Martial pistols of that Era. It was a joy to shoot, and easy to maintain. (although the extractor could have been done better. )
@chrisblake1918
@chrisblake1918 4 жыл бұрын
I wish I'd gotten one of these many years ago. Thinking back, there were some available mail order back in the early 60's.
@McCbobbish
@McCbobbish 7 жыл бұрын
Bergmann's pistols are really cool looking. Whatever other characteristics they have, they certainly look really cool.
@BobcatSchneidermann
@BobcatSchneidermann 7 жыл бұрын
The HR at about 19:40 stands for Hærens Rustkammer, if anyone was wondering :)
@Xhumed
@Xhumed 3 жыл бұрын
Bergmanns sure make a good basis for Star Wars blasters.
@blackwoodsecurity531
@blackwoodsecurity531 7 жыл бұрын
And gun jesus said, "Ye shall make bergman videos" Bergman 3;16 lol, love the videos Ian, thanks for the uploads!
@thiagokawano1618
@thiagokawano1618 2 жыл бұрын
I love how this gun looks.
@franciscoschwarz6451
@franciscoschwarz6451 3 жыл бұрын
13:30 "... been horrendously krippled from birth by a horrible case of left-handynes ... " 😂😂🤣 This gun guy sometimes just kills me
@Kevin-mx1vi
@Kevin-mx1vi 3 жыл бұрын
Yup, likewise my wife and my son, both "horribly crippled" 😉 My Dad was left handed too, but joining the British armed forces as a National Serviceman cured that - "All of our equipment is right handed, so *YOU* will be right handed !" 😁
@tinymud3324
@tinymud3324 7 жыл бұрын
I did enjoy your Bergmann blogs but would really like to see you fire one ;o)
@ocarinalover1214
@ocarinalover1214 7 жыл бұрын
Learning about these older guns is more interesting than seeing others shoot more modern ones...although some interesting ones do appear (quad barreled pistol, the taurus handgun for concealed weaponry).
@Ratrazor
@Ratrazor 3 жыл бұрын
I'm really surprised they never made a larger magazine for that gun, like a 10 or a 12 round magazine even a 20 would been awesome. It would have stuck out a little bit but would have been way more effective during combat. And especially with the fact that they took stripper clips could have had bigger stripper clips to go with the bigger magazines also. I really like that gold inlay on that one it looked really nice I forget the term for that but you talked about that before where they do all those pistols with that gold inlay.
@iainstrachan5692
@iainstrachan5692 7 жыл бұрын
"Hærens Tøjhus" Was one of the Danish state arsenals. The literal translation would be "The army clothing house" It got its name because they also made the uniforms for the soldiers there too. And there has been a large display of army equipment there since the 19 century. Its still there as a museum. I place you should check out if you are ever in Denmark
@sonofshinobione
@sonofshinobione 7 жыл бұрын
I find these fascinating, especially as I lived in Belgium and Denmark for quite a few years.
@clayrogers4532
@clayrogers4532 7 жыл бұрын
The John Wayne movie "Big Jake" features a Bergman model 1910 in the year 1908. It was an experimental model because the McCandels family were investors.
@paulshayter1113
@paulshayter1113 6 жыл бұрын
Clay Rogers, The only time you see John Wayne lose control of a firearm.
@brandtheman92
@brandtheman92 7 жыл бұрын
God damn the comments on these past few videos are top tier comedy gold. Ian, fantastic vids, keep em coming.
@matthewkrueger4786
@matthewkrueger4786 7 жыл бұрын
I feel like I now know more about these Bergmanns than any other pistol in history.
@davidcruz8667
@davidcruz8667 2 жыл бұрын
They're actually kinda cool, I think I'll take one of the later issues with the larger grip in the boxed case, with the diagonal holster, thank you.
@BobcatSchneidermann
@BobcatSchneidermann 7 жыл бұрын
Also, "Hærens Tøjhus" is where the Danish museum of military history is located today, called Tøjhusmuseet. Brilliant place!
@redandgreendesert1
@redandgreendesert1 7 жыл бұрын
Ian, your knowledge is impressive... Can we get new Bergmann shooting video too?
@Unit2x10
@Unit2x10 7 жыл бұрын
A fun fact about Danish services pistols: we still use the p210 today. Pistols really isn't a priority in the Danish army
@eisenkrieg553
@eisenkrieg553 7 жыл бұрын
Unit 2 Hey the p210 is a wonderful shooter
@Unit2x10
@Unit2x10 7 жыл бұрын
EisenKreig It sertanly is and I have had the pleasure of shooting one, but as a military service pistol it is rather dated by now and the fact that they have been in more or less continuous use since the 1950's doesn't really help reliability
@robertbenson136
@robertbenson136 7 жыл бұрын
I owned one of the Sig p 210's that came on the surplus market about 10 years ago. I think I paid about $1200 for it then
@dawarboss9385
@dawarboss9385 7 жыл бұрын
Ian your awesome brother!
@bamaboni
@bamaboni Жыл бұрын
The two different stocks might have been made in mind for how different armies would traditionally wear their kit, one might wear their holster on the left and sabre on the right or vice versa depending on traditions, parade doctrine etc
@chikitabowow
@chikitabowow 3 жыл бұрын
23:51 That is such a beautiful pistol!
@sdlonyer
@sdlonyer 7 жыл бұрын
I love magazine forward the look of these Bergmann's, and browsed for a modern equivalent. Not many to choose from, but the Walther GSP looks promising. It seems to be available in .22 and .32. Has anyone seen anything similar in 9mm?
@jameskachman3692
@jameskachman3692 7 жыл бұрын
out of curiosity, Ian, how many more Bergman pistol videos are left? they're great vids, but I fear my tastes tend more towards rifles.
@ForgottenWeapons
@ForgottenWeapons 7 жыл бұрын
One more :)
@EdMan102292
@EdMan102292 7 жыл бұрын
timberjack460 I sexually identify as a Bergmann Model of 1910
@timdinch5598
@timdinch5598 7 жыл бұрын
Ingrid Bergman?
@DoctorFiddlesticks
@DoctorFiddlesticks 7 жыл бұрын
I had no idea you were left-handed until this video... I don't feel so horribly alone now! Not sure why but I really like the idea of a pistol carbine - I think it's the aesthetics. Would be nice if any were made nowadays, just as a sort of niche or novelty item.
@JenniferinIllinois
@JenniferinIllinois 7 жыл бұрын
And we're back with another episode of 'Forgotten Bergmanns'. Ian must know more about the Bergmanns than Bergmann himself did! -Jen
@JC-XL
@JC-XL 3 жыл бұрын
99K views - Ian has just created 99K Bergmann gun experts 😂 😂
@smokeydops
@smokeydops 7 жыл бұрын
Definitely a neat assortment of locked breach pistols
@siestatime4638
@siestatime4638 7 жыл бұрын
Finally! A Bergmann that has reloading brass available! Too bad I couldn't afford the gun, even if I could find one.
@rautavaara9194
@rautavaara9194 7 жыл бұрын
This Bergmann collection is incredible. Is it missing anything?
@donaldbarrier5806
@donaldbarrier5806 7 жыл бұрын
great video series. good looking pistols. i always thought the luger and the final series of the bergman were the best looking full size service auto's . produced. Sig p210, Hi power, 1911 would be runner up group
@solider691
@solider691 7 жыл бұрын
That turtle neck is doing things to me only a hollow point could do
@AntonisHL
@AntonisHL 4 ай бұрын
Bergmann should offered a wooden shoulder stock instead of that mostly leather one, they had a very solid stock attachment system. With a wooden stock the pistol would be very good at shooting.
@Foksuh
@Foksuh 7 жыл бұрын
Damn, all the Bergmanns of the world have been gathered. That's some impressive collection, I'll say that much.
@fuzzydunlop7928
@fuzzydunlop7928 6 жыл бұрын
Oh, Ian and all of his strange and endearing Bergmannerisms.
@ShaedTheMoron
@ShaedTheMoron 2 жыл бұрын
I desperately want to own a Bergmann one day
@morganahoff2242
@morganahoff2242 3 жыл бұрын
25:10 "...a substantially better grip on the pistol. And is large enough to stick a magazine in the handle!" : )
@Viking2dk
@Viking2dk 7 жыл бұрын
Are you planning on making a video about the SiG P210?
@thomasleonard6284
@thomasleonard6284 Жыл бұрын
Order this well written and illustrated book
@Sitiveni12
@Sitiveni12 4 жыл бұрын
Why can't we make guns like this anymore? These are mechanically exquisite and beautiful.
@eisenkrieg553
@eisenkrieg553 7 жыл бұрын
Forgotten Bergmanns Strikes Again!
@frankmcgarry3155
@frankmcgarry3155 5 жыл бұрын
Anyone else discover this gun from the John Wayne western Big Jake?
@minutemanqvs
@minutemanqvs 7 жыл бұрын
Ahhhhh, new Bergmans!
@AdrenalineJunkieXL
@AdrenalineJunkieXL 7 жыл бұрын
judging by the people complaining Ian I'd say the next gun you do this for you might wanna separate videos with other guns in between haha even tho I don't mind it's great seeing all these different subtle changes
@glennpettersson9002
@glennpettersson9002 7 жыл бұрын
Hi Ian, I have enjoyed this series of videos, thank you. I am guessing an In Range Mud Test is not on the cards but given your experience in these matters how do you think the 1910/21 would fair. Are there any records of the Bergmann's performance in the field?
@Yamauchi_Akira
@Yamauchi_Akira 7 жыл бұрын
NOT THE BERGMANNS, NOT THE BERGMANNS they're in my eyes!! AAARGH!!!
@lauraduran3244
@lauraduran3244 7 жыл бұрын
You forgot to mention, that 1908 pistols had such a bad reputation of being weak (cracked receivers were VERY common) that forced the adoption of the Campo Giro pistols as a quick replacement....in fact spanish officers prefered to carry the older revolvers over that pistol, once proven its lack of reliability and their tendency to break...
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