Berliner Weisse with Philly Sour - Starsan in my beer...
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2 жыл бұрынI brewed an all grain Berliner Weisse using Philly Sour Yeast from Lallemand. I also got 3 cups of Starsan sanitizer in my fermenting beer!!!
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@jakebertrand8414 2 жыл бұрын
Great video as always bro. Always enjoy your honesty
@alvaradobrewhouse6387 2 жыл бұрын
Man, I got jinxed! I woke up this morning and cold crashing lager suck in half my starsans! Ugh, hope it doesn't ruin it. Anyhow, great video! I've been waiting for this one from you. next sour will most definitely be a kettle sour. Thx for the content teach!
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
Ahh bummer!!! Welp it won’t completely ruin your beer, I think for me it’s the thought that it’s in there that’s the worst part of it.
@RecipeswithBen 2 жыл бұрын
When I used the philly sour i got a strong lemon candy vibe from the yeast that overwhelmed everything else. Also the delayed start to CO2 formation is typically with this yeast as Lallemand says the first 24-48 is when the yeast produces lactic acid leading to a drop in pH and then starts the conversion to ethanol and CO2.
@ulissessanchez6832 2 жыл бұрын
You get a green apple taste that you can’t get rid off.
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
It is definitely not bad but I think I prefer kettle souring flavor a bit more. This was way easier though and I’ll probably try it again!
@RecipeswithBen 2 жыл бұрын
@@ElementaryBrewingCo I think the best descriptor is that it can one dimensional in its acidic nature and kettle souring can be controlled by the pH you let the bacteria sour too. Since you use propane how do you keep the temperature elevate during the kettle souring?
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
@@RecipeswithBen I’ve only done it in the summer and the garage holds a pretty steady 85-95 degrees, plus I wrap my wife’s heating pad around it 🤣
@RecipeswithBen 2 жыл бұрын
@@ElementaryBrewingCo That was what i was thinking of doing this summer when it gets above 80+ in my garage
@gnomebrewing 2 жыл бұрын
I agree with your thoughts at the end on Philly vs. Kettle sour. I really like Philly but would put the extra time in and kettle if possible.
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
Most definitely! I think I may try it again and I’ll pre sour the wort with some lactic acid and see how that goes?
@TroubleBrewing 2 жыл бұрын
Looks good and refreshing! Happy to hear that the starsan didn't impact the beer too much, I wouldn't think so but (fortunately) I have not had this happen to me yet. Also love the thumbnail dude, very "KZfaqy". Cheers!
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
🤣🤣Thanks!!! Yeah, I figured it wouldn’t hurt the beer too much but I don’t like knowing it’s in there.
@nivek204 2 жыл бұрын
I have used Philly sour before, and from what Lallemand says -- sourness is determined by (like you mentioned) glucose levels, temperature (ideally 75-77*), and pitch rate (.5 grams / liter for the sourest flavor) The lag time is normal, because it is acidifying before actually fermenting. Lallemand also says not to co-pitch right away because the philly will get out-competed and not do its thing. The second time I used it I also co-pitched with Mangrove's french saison on day 5 to really dry it out. Maybe give it a try again -- cheers!
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
Great info!! I realize now that I could have done a few things different. I will definitely be trying this again. Love the French Saison yeast idea!
@nivek204 2 жыл бұрын
@@ElementaryBrewingCo Cheers! sorry, it was 1 gram / liter for the sourest -- basically 2 packs. I am going to try just one pack for a gose (want slightly tart) coming up to see if salt does anything to it.
@HOMEBREW4LIFE 2 жыл бұрын
TOO GOOD
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Braj!!
@estock15 2 жыл бұрын
I've have starsan suck back into my beer before, when I brewed my Oktoberfest in the fall, could only get the wort down to 60ish degrees and when I put it in my fermentation chamber shouldn't of put the airlock on it till it cooled down more. Only had maybe a Tbsp of starsan get in there before I took the airlock off to finish cooling to 50 degrees F and to pitching temp. Love the videos, keep up the good work!
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks!!!
@TheBruSho 2 жыл бұрын
I’ve definitely done something similar with suckback on starsan. But I read somewhere that there’s some nutrients in starsan that support yeast growth. Could be BS but glad it didn’t ruin the beer
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
I read that too so I wasn’t to worried. Ended up tasting fine but I’ve learned my lesson 😂
@JusBrewing 2 жыл бұрын
The glucose trick is genius. I had essentially given up on Philly Sour since I could never get the sourness where I wanted (no control like lacto), this may have brought me back around!
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
It’s definitely easier than a kettle sour! Someone said to try pre souring the wort to 4.5ish before pitching and that should make it end up around 3.2. I’ll probably try that next time.
@Unsub-Me-Now 2 жыл бұрын
Kettel sour is the way to go for sure.
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
For sure!!! Enjoy your trip beast!!!
@dadbodsbierco5584 2 жыл бұрын
I learned the same lesson with pitching that yeast a few weeks ago. The second batch turned out much better
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
I’ll probably give it another shot, it’s really easy!!!
@HopsANDgnarly 2 жыл бұрын
Totally been there! Gut wrenching! I think placing your blowoff container on the hump makes it more likely but I’m sure it would have happened either way. Glad it turned out fine!
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
Ya, and no other place to put it in the chest freezer. Guess it’s time to go glycol 🤣🤣
@davedempster4995 2 жыл бұрын
Keep your blowoff below the fermenter to prevent a siphon happening with a blow off. Learned that lesson the same way you did. Didn’t hurt the beer though.
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
I’ll have to find a different spot for the jar of Starsan. I suppose I could just go back to an airlock but I like the pressure capability with the all rounder. Definitely learned my lesson 🤣
@jgridirongamez1600 2 жыл бұрын
Awsome 😀😁😁😀😁😀
@djup_skogen 2 жыл бұрын
Lallemand has a good ‘best practice’ paper that describes how to use Philly Sour and how it behaves. All of the things you described (glucose, higher FG, seemingly slow start) are there. I haven’t used it (or brewed any sour beers for that matter), but based on what I have read and heard, it seems like it requires some experimentation to make it do what you want.
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
I’ll definitely be trying it again at some point, it’s really easy! I think next time I’ll pre sour the wort with some lactic acid.
@tomknight2366 2 жыл бұрын
Been there before, I had a full 8oz glass of starsan sucked into a bottling bucket for a 1 gallon lime-pilsner. I'm sure that recipe needed tweaking so I'm not quite sure how the starsan affected it but it still tasted like drinkable beer without major off notes, some poor head retention but it was a pretty light beer without much head expected in the first place. I've got a philly sour blueberry berlinner weisse I'm going through bottles of now and it's a great warm weather style/yeast combo for sure!
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
Nice! Next time I’m going to try a fruited version for sure! Blueberry sounds like a great choice! That lime lager sounds like a good one too!!
@PartyTimeBrewing 2 жыл бұрын
I do need to test out the Philly, I have a pack and not sure yet what to try with it. I also recently sucked about a litre of Starsan into a batch. Just about kegging time, but it was a 15 gallon batch, so I think you win on the ratio of starsan to beer... Pro tip, don't put the blowoff on a table higher than your beer, the suckback causes a nice siphon effect... Cheers!
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
At least it’s clean right 😂😂 I really dig the Berliner Weisse style and with Philly sour yeast it’s super easy. Maybe try pre souring with lactic to 4.5ish before pitching? That should make it a bit more sour!
@pmhartel 2 жыл бұрын
I've done two batches with Philly sour and after the second I 100% agree with you. The first batch I added 9lb of plums to in secondary. The pre-plum gravity sample tasted like a really tart/sour lemonade. Based on the grav sample I though the plain base would be great pool side due to the lemonade/shandy type thing going on. So last summer I made a second identical batch to leave plain. I was very disappointed in the result. It was only slightly tart, to the point where if you didn't tell someone it was a sour they likely wouldn't have picked out why it tasted different. It wasn't a bad beer but it just wasn't what I was targeting. My plan this summer is to make a kettle sour version to have more control of the sourness.
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
I think the kettle sour method gives you more control but Philly sour is so easy! I’m thinking next time I’ll pre sour the wort with lactic acid to 4.5ish before pitching and see if that helps bring down the ph a bit?
@northernhomebrewing5855 2 жыл бұрын
Lallemand also recommend to ferment at higher temp to help souring around 77F, i may be wrong but i think they said that it doesnt do anything to pre sour your wort either =)
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
I could try the higher temp next time for sure. I wonder how it does under pressure?
@tuarine2121 2 жыл бұрын
I would recommend Philly Sour in most situations over kettle souring. Kettle souring always tends to produce a hard-to-describe unpleasant character. The best condition for Philly Sour is definitely a fruited beer at a higher OG though. That way you will get the sourness you are looking for.
@TheApartmentBrewer 2 жыл бұрын
Since starsan is acidic I wonder if that flavor just blended in with the rest of the tartness? I've got a pack of philly sour in my fridge waiting for a beer!
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
Could have for sure, I also think the yeast may use some of the Starsan up during fermentation. I don’t think it really hurt the beer, thankfully!
@tayloranderberg8283 2 жыл бұрын
Have to acidify the wort down to 4.5ish and the Philly goes the rest of the way. They recommend pitch rate of 18g for a typical 5gal batch with 10% simple sugars. You may not have added enough corn sugar to get it to sour
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
Good point! I didn’t even think to pre sour it with lactic, looks like I’m doing it again:)
@wrayzor97 2 жыл бұрын
Lallemand says if you use more than one yeast pack then it’ll be more sour plus we pitched Us-05 4-5 days in to help bring down the gravity.
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
Perfect! I should’ve co pitched! I’ve got a bunch of US05!!
@wrayzor97 2 жыл бұрын
@@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 packs of Philly and Us-05 might be what you are looking for.
@MadMax00215 2 жыл бұрын
Have you thought about doing the same beer again only using a co2 recovery system or a "double bubble" (S type) airlock to prevent suck back? (I use an S rather than a blow off or a three piece airlock when lowering temps [or moving PET carboys that I use for secondary sometimes] - even though with an S you'll pull air in. When I get to lagering temps I figure the air will get pushed back out again when fermentation picks up.) You could compare your taste, smell and final gravity to see if there is any difference, and if maybe the Star San affected it, and if so how much. Jeez, I really rambled on there, sorry. ;-) Keep up the great videos. Really enjoying the channel.
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks!!! I have thought about the airlock I’ve got an extra lid for the Fermzilla so I could easily just make one be for an airlock. I just love the pressure transfer so I never even think to go airlock anymore.
@jimlewis7938 Жыл бұрын
I actually did thar with my Munich dunkel. It for dure destroyed it lol.
@drmdcaud 2 жыл бұрын
Just like you would do for a kettle sour, you gotta acidify your wort down to 4.5 pH with lactic acid and then let the Philly Sour yeast take it down the rest of the way. If you do that then you'll end up at 3.3 to 3.2 pH.
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
That’s a great point, I’m trying that next time for sure, thanks!!
@biralleebeerbrewing2373 Ай бұрын
Seems to be a common theme that Philly Sour makes for more of a "tart" beer than a sour. We've just finished fermenting our first (raspberry) sour using Philly and initial tasting is excellent. Have you taken a pH reading? From what I've read it won't typically go lower than 3.2
@ElementaryBrewingCo Ай бұрын
Cheers 🍻 haven’t taken a reading but 3.2-3.4 seems like the range it’ll get too. Either way I like that range for my sours!
@kenmcculloch6249 2 жыл бұрын
I use 1 pk with great results every time…
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@L0u1sGane 2 жыл бұрын
Nice thumbnail
@77transamguy 2 жыл бұрын
I just finished a batch with Philly sour and it was not sour at all, so disappointed. Might try a kettle sour next. I’ve read about suck back with starsan for years now and not really having an effect on finished beer.
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
That’s what I read so I wasn’t too worried about it. I think next time I’ll pre sour the wort like I usually do with kettle sours and see how it turns out.
@Murlockingqc Жыл бұрын
Not sure why I gave you a thumbs down months ago, but that has been rectified ! Cheers !
@ElementaryBrewingCo Жыл бұрын
Thanks!!! Cheers back to ya!!!
@JohnnyReverse 2 жыл бұрын
2 packs for a 1.030 beer? You're kidding right?
@ElementaryBrewingCo 2 жыл бұрын
I plugged it into Lallemands pitch rate calculator and that what they recommended. It does sound like a bit of overkill though! I think pre souring the wort with lactic would be a better choice to try first.
@JohnnyReverse 2 жыл бұрын
@@ElementaryBrewingCo Lol thats nuts, $14-18 for one 5 gallon batch... yikes. Yeah, I tried that on my first go at philly sour, brought my ph down to 4.5 after the mash and let it ride out. The beer finished around 3.5 ph if I recall, but tasted nothing like any other beer i'd brought down that low with either kettle souring or lacto pitch. I just find the yeast completely underwhelming, and pitching 2 packs for one batch makes it even less desirable. I have however used it, let it finish and then added a tsp of kveik to help it attenuate. PS is a great idea, it just doesn't work as advertised.
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