Its a great game, glad to help out some

The (edit) Pass & Come Odds Bet is not a HEDGE - It is an Independent Bet made after a Point is established. It is an Even Odds bet and the only Even Money Bet you will find in the Casino. Always play what you can afford to risk on (edit) "Odds"! Always! Of course - If you don't want to play "Odds" bets - That is all-right also!!!!!!.... But tell me when you play and I will be more than happy to stand behind you and "sneak" chips into your hand so you can put them on your Pass & Come bets as Odds, "FOR ME"!!!!!!! The "House" will have an advantage over you... no matter what you do, how you play or move your chips around! But it Will NEVER have any advantage over me!!!!! Thank you very much !

@@BobSTK Bob, get back on your meds asap

@@pamagee2011 LOL! Possibly my mistake (assuming your jab at me was for a correct reason)... But I doubt it was even considering my faux pas. My first sentence should have been "The Pass & Come Odds Bets... ... ... "

Well said!

Lately, I've been messing with betting the come at $25 flat with odds, and then on wins, Coming back through with $15 from that win and then reversing that on repeat. Essentially, every $25 bet that wins comes back as a $15 bet, and every $15 bet that wins comes back again as a $25 bet. Ping ponging the flat amounts as the roll goes. Odds based on bankroll, but I generally "Johnny" them if I can.

If it's volatile then it's not the best method. Common sense!!

In gambling, the volatility is where you win the money. Without volatility and every bet having a casino edge, you slowly drain your money away.

Classic

Have fun!

Yep, mathematically this the way to go. But not sure the math applies to our short term sessions. I prefer place bets as they pay more unless doing 5x or more in odds.

Appreciate the feedback. Give it a try, it’s a great game.

Great way to play

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile

That is great if you are leaving the table. But every roll has a 1 in 6 probability it will show. So delaying risk to another shooter mathematically doesn’t add up. But I do agree and like taking money off table any time I can.

No argument with your proposed method of playing in your post. But why would you ever let your "Odds" bet(s) be turned off? Are you there to play (gamble) or to stand around watching? NEVER let them turn your ODDS Bets Off! Just tell the Dealers to keep the On Button close and tell them loud and clear "My (edit) Odds are ALWAYS WORKING! Or is there some logical reason you ever have your odds bet(s) off?

Let me add, being consistent in your play and method of play make it 100X's easier on the Dealers. And Craps Dealers have possibly the hardest jobs in the casinos. Imagine 10 idiot players at the table - Many just throwing chips around seemingly wildly! Changing their bet amounts and "strategies" ... the dealer has no idea what you might play next! Then the "Box" wants the dealer to get the dice to the shooter as soon as possible to keep the action going. And the "Stick" has to be aware of what's happening on either side of him at the SAME TIME ! JMHO ...

@@BobSTK According to my knowledge as a Craps Dealer, it doesn't really matter if the odds are working or not on the Come Out roll because the House Edge remains the exact same. Most players just leave them off because 7 wins on their Pass Line and they don't lose as much on their Come Bets. Again, doesn't matter at all really, just personal choice!

@@kilecrocodyle9995 You entirely missed the point of my post. Which was to ask if he was there to “Play” or just stand around watching? And “just standing around watching” is what you are doing when you have your “Odds bets” turned off. Now - Since You are a Dealer - Let me ask - Can a Blind Monkey throwing a chip on the table play as well as any other person at the table? (That is a Yes or No question).

lot going on to take advantage of come out 7. my question is why just the comeout roll? The dice don’t know it’s a come out roll. They always have same 1 in 6 chance to roll 7, so if willing to bet 180 to win 118 for come out roll, why not each roll after? Just playing a little devil advocate here

@@ColorUp I was looking at the come out roll because you win on the passline also. But totally understand. I could see leaving the lay bets on a cold table. My go to way to play is place the inside and partial power press. Ive had good luck with it over time. love the vids. Im heading to vegas end of April/early May. Had a guy hit the ATS while I had 5,5,5 on it.

@@ColorUp If you do it just on the Come Out Roll you are only risking $30 to win $118. You can only lose one Lay Bet, but 6 can win on a 7. Better than Hopping 7s or Any 7 as those lose on a horn number, the Lay Bets don't. If you do it for multiple rolls, you are risking multiple $30 Lay Bets. One change I make is I double up on my Lay Bets after EVERY successive 7 (even if interrupted by horn numbers). This increases your win exponentially on multiple Come Out 7s. Once you have that first $118 win, you can't lose on that shooter as your first Double Up will Risk $60 to win $236. After your next CO7, Double Up risking $120 to win $472. This is on top of the $118 and $236 you already won for a total win of $708 while your total risk would be $120. If you don't get it, you lose $120 of your previous $354 win for a net win of $234 while having the potential for a lot more.

Good luck in AC

Why don't you just make Place bets across?

@@jimklemens5018Why give up a bigger edge to the house when you don’t have to ?

@@michaelblankenau6598 If you make Place bets, you can collect every time the number rolls.

"Consistent winner" ??? Which planet is the casino you play at on?

Awesome! Glad I got to meet you. Im loving Reno. I haven't been out playing much, and been keeping my play quite as Im working on a partnership with one of the local casinos.

You can always submit on my dice advice form at www.colorup.club, no promises though

Well I moved from Colorado to Reno this past summer. At the time multiple casinos in Blackhawk had the individual bubbles. Can't be specific to what names? But they are all within walking distance, so should be easy to find.

@@ColorUp Oh that's right. Great, thanks.

Good luck 🍀 next week

Forget that nonsense. That is scaredy cat play. Go in, take your entire bankroll, and spread it across the numbers as soon as you get the dice. Do not work your bets on the Comeout, and spread them so that they pay close to evenly - don't load up your favorite number, etc. I wouldn't press a dime until you have racked your initial investment. Leave the money on the point number and take full odds as soon as you collect on your first hit. Once you've made a pass, whether it's 2 rolls or 40, take the profit and go enjoy the rest of your free vacation and under no circumstances are you to go home down. Send money orders home if you have to but do not allow even the chance of having a losing trip once you have bagged that first nice pass profit. Thank me later.

@@skinovtheperineum1208 spreads money out and sees big red

@@teach9906 - Negative Nancy!! If it happens, rinse and repeat. Go back to work, save up a few more grand and do it again. You won't hit the bastard every time, and sooner or later, you'll have that dream roll and be betting big all during it. If I had my gambling career to do over again, I would risk it all every time I walked in. Because I've had a few very good rolls and I would have made a quarter million, easy. I'd do 5 years of being broke to hit big like that afterward. Unfortunately, I was Scaredy cat, like mentioned above, and made coffee money instead.

@@skinovtheperineum1208 its a sick way to do it. Risk it all on two throws of the dice possibly. But, I also understand exactly what you are saying. A roll that hits 40+ will make so much that you will be the star of the casino that night.

Great question actually. Once you reach the table minimum, any amount of press is allowed. Technically you could increase to $11, but wouldn’t want to do that because of the rounding of payoffs. So you could go from $10 and press to $15/$18 depending on number. It doesn’t have to increase by ten

I asked once and it said it can give suggestions about gambling 😀

@@ColorUp haha I’m using the new paid version of 4 o so maybe it’s different ?

I have a video a video comparing the two

THat was my thought and I've just been studying to learn. Going to vegas in 2 days. Would it make sense to do some don't come and some come? Or is that potentially offsetting the opportunity you already have?

You are correct, more risk, but when them numbers keep rolling nothing sweeter than keep hearing the dealer saying "off and on" every roll

The vig on each $10 bet is 14 cents. And the odds carry no vig. The $25 bet would have a vig of 35 cents.

@@ColorUp Thanks...So paying extra 21 cents per hand to play $25 no odds.

I would add at least single Odds to the Come bets on a $25 table.

agreed

Lot to cover there, and I have over many videos. In a summary, This is how I like to start. Pick a strategy. Let’s say 44 inside. That’s my total investment for that shooter. If some numbers hit, I can press, regress as I’m comfortable, but I’m not going to invest more than that original $44. I personally like to have enough bankroll for 10 shooters in the hopes that gives me a chance if one of them having a great roll. So I’d need $440 total. Once I’ve run through that $440 I reevaluate: am I up? Down? If up do I want to keep playing? Or walk with profit. Now that’s an easy strategy to figure out, some are more complicated and have multiple stages, in that case what Is the total amount I will have at risk on a particular shooter. I need 10x whatever that amount is. Now this is my ideal situation, sometimes I don’t have a “proper bankroll” and give it a shot anyway, it is gambling after all. As far as starting from beginning. My personal preference is to start with as little money on table, hope to get some wins and then get my initial money back. I don’t believe in “house money” as it is your winnings, but I feel more comfortable once I have some “winnings” to bet much more aggressive.

@@ColorUp perfect answer that covers all my questions. The starting bet per shooter is exact what I needed to know. Thanks!

Here is all the math. It decreases house edge on a larger overalll bet. Player with zero odds and player with 100x odds is expected to lose the exact same amount which is 1.4% of whatever is bet in the line. Look into the real math and don’t just repeat what the casino says “it’s the best bet” it’s the best only if you intend on or can afford the additional bet. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bdiEY6phs5-0o58.htmlsi=zkk_-4dCahExi7hU

You never know, he could have just as easily started winning. Players can play as they choose. We are not betting against each other, we are all betting against the casino.

K

You’re not playing against other players . You’re playing against the casino .

Vegas gamblers general store website

cool thank you sir!

You could also teach your friends to Place bet the 6 and 8. Super simple.

With come bets, you really don’t want to see a 7 at anytime, even on a new come out roll, as your established bets would lose, so it makes sense to have your odds working.

If controlled shooting was a real thing, yes that would be only way to gain an edge.

A few months now yes

My guess is that you have a pass line bet acting? That’s the only reason to take the place bet on the five down. If you’re betting the pass and the point is established as 5, then the five rolling wins you money without the place bet so a lot of dealers will assume you don’t want the place bet anymore. You can use the money that was on the five to cover a different number and increase your chances of winning money on the next roll with the same amount at risk.

@gary hoggard gave you good answer, dealers assume you already have it bet with a pass line. Best option is to use it for odds if you want to bet more money on that number. Next option is to just move to a different number. if odds are maxed out on number and you want to bet more, you certainly are allowed to just tell the dealers leave place bet where it’s at

@@ColorUp as it turned out I found the answer on another one of your videos and now I understand perfectly. Thank you both!

@@waynelacroix8870 Did you have a Pass line bet?

The odds bet pays the true odds. When you make place bets, they pay less than true odds. The payout amounts you mentioned are correct for place bets. 7:6 for 6&8, 6:5 for 5&9, 9:5 for 4&10. This video covered odds bet which are different than place bets.

@@ColorUp yes I followed up with that. Thank you

Sure, but you have to keep in mind anytime you hedge to prevent a loss. You are also preventing a win so the best kind of canceled each other out.

Place bets of equivalent amount pay better until you are at 5x odds or more. Line bets advantages are the come out roll, and lower house edge. Place bets pay better up to a certain point and can be removed anytime. They both have advantages and disadvantages, play the bets you prefer.

Correct

Flexible, nice

Great play when numbers are rolling

I think the strength of this strategy is that a table can be somewhat "cold" and you can break even or maybe scratch out a small gain. Because of those two come bets, a table can struggle to make points but I can hit 1, 2, or 3 come bets before losing on the pass bet. I also place 6 & 8 after the come out to pay for odds on come bets.

Oh I think I might see, you are shading the chips on top to designate they are the "flat bet".

Odds bet is placed on top but shifted forward from the flat or come bet.

You can. First press the odds until maxed out. Then I would start increasing the come bets you are replacing numbers with. Technically you can increase a come bet and odds at one time after its already on a number, and that is called a put bet, but not recommended.

Well, it doesn’t increase chance of 7 showing as that chance is always 1 in 6. But the come has the benefit of winning with the 7, that is only real reason to play it. That and if you plan on playing odds. It is a highly debated topic for sure. Many players opt to just go with place bets.

Yep, just Place bet the numbers you want. Easier to press and you can remove or reduce them any time you want.

Hi sir i just want to ask "" what computation did you use, on how to get the 1.41% house advantage on Passline bet? Thanks.

The place bet has a higher house advantage, except for the 6 and 8. The thing you are missing is that a come bet is actually just betting on a number to hit once in the same way a pass line does

Just part of strategy, certainly could go with 6/8

Well, they all lose money over time so 🤷‍♂️

Yes you can. as far as a video of it? Ive done it before somewhere in my back catalog of videos

That is correct. That would be best way to play with minimum amount money risked. Adding additional come bets with odds doesn’t effect math, just effects your bankroll and puts more money at risk. Reason people don’t play that way is simple boredom. They want more action.

Don't Pass has the lowest house edge.

why does it seem more likely for 7 to roll on first roll? you certainly could turn your bets off. I would question that though… I think it might be more a case of confirmation bias, you remember when it happens, and forget all the times it doesn’t happen 🤷‍♂️

has different advantages, such as its a 7/11 winner for first roll which is a massive 2:1 favorite where as a place bet is always at disadvantage to win. Also come bets allow you to make an additional odds bet. They are just very different bets for different goals.

@@ColorUp I see. Interesting. I’ve been playing Vegas Stakes on my dad’s Super Nintendo and experimenting with the come bet. You probably shouldn’t back up the come bet with odds if it’s on less likely numbers like the 4 or 10 though, right? Or is the payout adjusted to the likelihood of an unlikely number being rolled?

The payout is adjusted to chance of rolling number, so odds on 4 is just as good as odds on 6. Some people actually prefer because the payoff is so good on less likely numbers.

Only advantage is the 7 or 11 as he mentioned on the Come line. Only putting 1x odds on each bet actually is less money than he he just placed or bought the bet, plus if you imagine he bought/placed right after the initial button placement he would have collected first vs putting the come bet up. I dunno, I see the appeal I guess but it doesn't make sense to me unless you're going 2x odds or if you really think 7 and 11's will be hitting the 2nd roll.

? Can you provide a time stamp for you question

Heavy heat seaking is much more conservative than this. Just depends on your goals.

I was just curious if you had a preference like what you might actually play more often using your own $.. since they both have similar mechanics in the Come.. guess just depends how much risk you feel like taking any given night lol

I lean towards the heat seaker when o only have limited budget heading to casino. I will also play it a lot of times at meetups with fans, as I know I’ll be able to stick around long time with little money

I thought the same thing

I think he counted wrong or paid our wrong. They actually shouldn’t be exactly double. Because player 1 is playing $5 and if one of the points is 5 or 9 that doesn’t get paid a whole number. So he was doing $6 which is slightly more than 1x odds while the $10 player would get paid an whole number on 5 or 9. Exactly 1x odds.

This strategy just happens to use come bets.

I currently don’t have any. Check with Hawaii craps shooters

Ya I didn't understand making a Come bet with only 1x odds. Thats literally less money than you'd get had you just done a place bet or buy bet for the same amount. So this strategy would only be better than placing/buying if you did minimum 2x odds for each Come bet.

Yeah, you can play most any strategy with that amount

unless all four or five bets hit and win?

Ha, that question, I do not have answer for

Sure, although this is “mathematically” the best way to play, it is not a guaranteed winner, and in fact is a guaranteed loser over time. Play the way you enjoy the most, and good luck!🍀

Run any strategy or series of bets thru a sim. They will all end at zero eventually. The casino has an edge on every single bet. You can’t win long term, you have to take advantage of short term luck and beat the odds.

@@ColorUp Well, yes. I didn't put it on loop. I ran it manually and quickly busted and after the third quick bust stopped. So maybe just my rolls were off. I just didn't see a "strategy" that fits for me I guess.

@@stanleymyrick4068 I never play this way, but it’s one of most famous strategies. All the old books on craps in 1950-1980s all recommend. I guess due to low house edge. But that’s useless if you can’t roll your numbers.

@@ColorUp "I never play this way" Well that will make two of us. ;)

The 4/6/8/10 the $10 should win or lose double. The 5/9 do skew numbers. $5 player is betting $6 in odds to win $9 and $10 is betting $10 to win $15. Sometimes I just put odds of $10 on the $5 player so he was losing just as much as $10 player. But if you can find any mistakes, let me know with a time stamp.

Why? The house edge on the Don't Pass and Come is about the same as the Pass and come? There is no statistical difference. Some people just think they are betting WITH the house when they truly aren't.

Thanks for the information, its a little vague though

Well 5x and above table and line+odds pays equal or more than place bets, so 10x is not necessary. Hitting the number twice is a little inaccurate. The first roll is a different stage of game, where a 7/11 wins which is a big advantage. After point established, the number only has to roll once to win. they are very different bets and both have their advantages and disadvantages.

This unrelenting furor insisting the Come bet “number has to hit twice before it gets paid” is obfuscatory twaddle. At the time you made the contract, and accepted the Pass Line or Come Bet proposition offered by the house, there WAS no specific number-that, sure as shite, nobody said anything about hitting twice. At that point in time (between dice decisions), if you looked down and “knew” it’s value, that you would have to make twice, well-you’ve GOT to be PSYkick. And, once it’s made, do you seriously expect your chances decline because you made it once? Dice can’t remember! But, just for giggles, let us hypothecate that you DO need to “make it twice”-absurd as that sounds in a test of independent trials. At least the Come bet number DID show once-…which is something your Place Bet that you picked to repeat may never do, at any time you are on it!

According to the Casino house edge, it is better mathematically. Place betting will have a higher house edge or vig, and will lose more money over time. But place betting certainly has many advantages.

No, the 6/8 although great bet, carries a little higher house edge of 1.52%. If you are playing the dice probability game though, choosing to bet the 6/8 instead of letting the dice decide what number you bet on is a great option and I have a video coming out later this week, addressing just that.

@@ColorUp looking forward to seeing the next video. Personally I've never liked betting in the come, because you have to roll the number twice before you win. Love your videos, keep them coming, and thanks so much for what you do for us.

It turns out, a * temporary * place Six &/or Eight bet CAN further optimize the Two Point / Three point Simple Ponzer ( described widely as Three Point Molly ). See THE CRAPS PLAY OPTIMIZER by Gary Collopy.

That’s what some would say

Thanks for watching a few moments of video, before turning off and leaving comment

established come bets lose with any 7. A new come bet when made actually wins with 7 or 11.

Yes, just like the pass line bet. One of the least risky bets in the casino.

Just a visual cue that I’m simulating a new shooter. Thanks for watching

Mathematically it is the best way to lose the least amount of money. Every bet has a negative expectation, you can’t win long term. Many strategies are more aggressive and will win lots more money at any given lucky session. Are you saying you are a lifetime winner and win daily? If so I believe you are being misleading or untruthful.

I say it all the time. I’m kinda famous for not promoting odds bet.

Actually both of you should be considered wrong! As the "Odds" bet pays the true full odds. There is NO HOUSE advantage built into the bets. Over the long run you will break even where as on any of the Point numbers the house will certainly win it's expected percentage. So - If YOU don't play the odds bets - Please allow me to put my money on your Pass-line and Come bet amounts. I Guarantee you both - I will fare better than both of you. And "KNOW" this - OVER the long - run... You will lose nothing on the Odds-Bets! Now I am sure you are both scratching your silly heads. Thinking I don't know what I am talking about. Sorry...but I DO!!!! And I suspect you will do some research and come to the same obvious conclusion and that I DO KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT

You will lose nothing, but also win nothing over the long run with odds bet. It just creates variance which could work for or against you depending on if you are rolling points back or not.

James - Sorry if I came across a bit harsh and insulting in my previous post. But I was 100% correct. And neither this video nor any other Craps Video will help you win or lose any more or any less. Your win / loss (amounts) depend solely on which game you play at the table and the amounts of the bets you play. And there are MANY different games to play at the Craps Table and they have different Win / Loss Odds and expected win / loss amounts! To be Honest - CRAPS is a COMPLETE NO BRAINER of a GAME! A Blind Monkey throwing chips on the table plays exactly as good as you or I!!!! Yes a 100% No-Brainer. The same as Roulette, Slots, The big Wheel, Baccarat or whatever new games they invent to entice the player(s). ONLY BJ takes Brains to play and out of 100 BJ Players you see in the Casino - “MAYBE” 1 out of One-Hundred really plays correctly. Again- Sorry if I am being insulting. I do not intend to be. But I just do not like anyone thinking they can play Craps any better than ANYONE ELSE. They CAN’T!!!!!! "HOW to play" videos are OK but do not think there is a best way to play.

@@ColorUp Yes - Now you are correct !!!!! But do not forget to tell your students - That over the long run you will be even on your Odds Bets and Certainly be DOWN on All other bets you might play. And I am not knocking you personally. You are doing your thing. But to suggest there is a better or worse way to play is misleading. If you intent is to TEACH others ...then OK... but 9,999,999 out of 1,000,000,000Craps Videos on KZfaq then to be misleading (or simply incorrect) making the novice to think there may be a BEST way to play. And you know there is NOT! Anyway - If you do play - I wish you the best of luck! I like seeing players taking chips from the tables!

If the game follows the math and dice probability, no matter how you play is a losing proposition. The game is about beating the odds, and taking advantage of discrepancies in the probability chart.