Best Floor Standing Drill Press for the Money! (2021 Floor Standing Drill Press Buyer's Guide)

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Best Floor Standing Drill Press for the Money! (2021 Floor Standing Drill Press Buyer's Guide)
Links*
Best for the Money,
Grizzly: bit.ly/3zZwHT5
Best on a Budget,
Harbor Freight: bit.ly/3uwn2SY
Best High End,
Nova: imp.i284638.net/BXyXYB
Dayton: bit.ly/3l1m3ad
Shop Fox: bit.ly/3A1ROnO
Rikon: bit.ly/3B1M6np
Gen Ind: tinyurl.com/yejlevc3
Palmgren: bit.ly/3zWqYO9
Jet: bit.ly/3A2w4bJ
Delta: tinyurl.com/ygwluckf
Powermatic: bit.ly/3uwnBMA
Accessories,
Klein Angle Gauge: amzn.to/2Y2FNRT
Gino Locking Clamp: amzn.to/3ilcPEb
Lathe Attachment: amzn.to/3mkHYIU
Self Centering Jig: amzn.to/3orwwy4
Drill Vise: amzn.to/3kWCogp
WEN Drill Table: amzn.to/3A4zGtD
Laser Guide: amzn.to/39WAnue
Drum Sanding Kit: amzn.to/3Fdqt5V
Drill Bit Side Table: amzn.to/2ZQTHaI
Magnetic Light: amzn.to/3ipZoTz
Mobile Base: amzn.to/3l0nKos
Foot Switch: amzn.to/3F95RvG
Drill Press Spreadsheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
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*Just assume all links are affiliate links they might not be but at this point who cares.

Пікірлер: 124

@user-rh2rg6rl1d Жыл бұрын

This press has worked like a charm for my projects kzfaq.infoUgkxajoEbapTfqWaadnqb04h6U576yxXp-FE . I didn't even secure it to my table top, mainly due to the fact that I was using a 15 lbs drill vise. It's not flimsy at all as to what others have claimed it to be. Make sure the locking nuts and levers are secured and there won't be any issues with light pressure and patience. I was able to drill through aluminum, plastic, and steel (steel took a while) with no problems at all. Yeah it took a little longer than a regular drill press, but I don't have the space OR the money for one.The instruction manual was worthless, but luckily assembling the press was intuitive. However, the manual would be good for ordering replacement parts if needed. There is a nice breakdown of the parts that are included in the kit. Before ordering, make sure it is compatible with your unit, it is clearly stated what models the press is compatible with.This was an excellent purchase for $40!!

@mf9309 2 жыл бұрын

Red, I just got home from work. My job has nothing whatsoever to do with the content you create, but your content has everything to do with the person I am. I just want you to know how much I appreciate what you do and how much I enjoy watching and listening to you throughout the week, and especially after a long, challenging week at work. You are part of the comforts of my home.😊 Keep up the great work sir!

@hamilde 2 жыл бұрын

I bought one of those Wen drill press tables for my cheap Wen bench top drill press and I love it. I had their older design and this one is much better. It connects to the table firmly and the shorter fence doesn't interfere with the chuck.

@russellstephan6844 2 жыл бұрын

I picked up a nice Shop Fox floor standing drill press off Craigslist a few years ago for a C note. And then I started the effort of converting the woodshop press over to VFD 3-phase drive. Boy! Is it now one hell of a metal and wood workhorse. The VFD infinite speed control is stunning! The 2HP 3-phase motor I use was also picked up on Craigslist for a song. I drill thin metal, thick (0.5"), glass, wood, plastic, everything!

@oldguy1528 2 жыл бұрын

I got that LED Sewing Machine when I got a drill press for Christmas and it works GREAT !!!

@sdavidb5620 2 жыл бұрын

I have the Delta. It was designed for woodworking. It is a fantastic machine. I also have a Ridgid DP15001 that I bought used for 180. It’s a great budget machine.

@zootcst 2 жыл бұрын

I use the foot switch on my router table, but hadn't thought about using it with the drill press. Thanks.

@craegarr 2 жыл бұрын

This is brilliant. I especially like the accessory discussion. I'll be looking for an excuse to buy a drill press now....

@kevinsartin6059 2 жыл бұрын

I purchased the Klein digital level for work and it is awesome. Use in mill maintenance work and is very versatile.

@kyleharshbarger3803 2 жыл бұрын

Finally got to this one. Wowzerz, what a nice overview of and commentary on these floor-stand drill presses. Real meaty like. Grrr-eat job!

@scottnokes 2 жыл бұрын

I have an older Grizzly G7947, and it is a great drill press! Plenty of power and speeds. It is a sturdy unit. Nice choice Red!!

@Jeffro115 2 жыл бұрын

Great video Bear. Thank you for putting all of this info together!

@scottyV1000 2 жыл бұрын

I have a Industrial Machine and Tool press. They were one of the early Taiwan / China importers that were down in Royersford, Pa so within driving distance. It is similar to the round table model you had. It has served me well over the years but I still haven’t figured out how to change the speeds with the pulleys. I do mostly wood working so it hasn’t been a problem. The only problem I had with it was the centering pin on the table didn’t work very well because of a so so casting.

@chashint1 2 жыл бұрын

One of the very first machines I bought is a Central Machinery drill press. It has a very long stroke which is the best thing about it. I use it for woodworking. The motor is huge and the plate says it is a 15A but it is remarkably gutless. It is one of those things that you would not buy again if you had a do over but you can get the job done with it so you just live with it. Changing speeds on a three pulley DP is a pain in the rear and I just keep the belts set for low speed so forstner bits don't burn. If I ever replace it the Nova Voyager is the one I will get. But since I have lived with the CM DP for 30+ years it is like a cranky old friend that annoys you but always manages to come through so it will probably still be here when I am gone.

@CosmicKnight1 Жыл бұрын

Really good review, especially covering the useful accessories. Much appreciated.

@MajorWeakness 2 жыл бұрын

Great information since my press got ruined during IDA. I'll check out some if these

@DanielWinzlow-fq4yv Жыл бұрын

Great video analysis on the drill press and accessories.

@eriknash8783 2 жыл бұрын

The purpose of the digital speed display on the Palmgren is so that you can confirm that you adjusted the belts to the intended speed range. I find it quite useful when I approach the machine, I can switch it on and know what speed it's currently set to without opening the cover and looking at the belt/pulley config table...

@scottyV1000 2 жыл бұрын

A couple comments on accessories. I’ve tried a lot of different mobile bases and I’ve found Grizzly’s to be the best. They use aluminum tubing and heavy steel corners instead of flat stock for the sides and are very rigid. I have the laser guide on my drill press. The problem with this is if you move your table at all you have to realign the laser. Woodcraft makes nice adjustable toggle clamps for the table.

@19672701 2 жыл бұрын

Wish you would have put the HF 20 inch,I've had the generic 17 inch,they all look like they are made from the same company. I was going to go with a used industrial 3phase machine and put a vfd. Then saw a video from Fireball tool and he mentions his HF 20 inch drill press and said he was impressed, so I decided to order one $630 and one came up on Craigslist for half. I love it! The best I've used,and converted the 17 inch to a dedicated tapping head machine. Great video.

@brendanwood1540 2 жыл бұрын

Yogi! I think your channel needs more clout. Honestly, well done! This is a huge time saver and a really good place to start planning some shop upgrades. I really appreciate the time and effort you have put into this. Organization 10/10. Relevant Information 10/10. Comparative Analysis 10/10. Product Reviews 10/10. Overall Score = Maximum Stars.

@denoftools 2 жыл бұрын

Actually I'm not Yogi that's a cousin of mine but he's doing time in a supermax for a string of felony picnic basket theft on federal property.

@GeorgeWMays 2 жыл бұрын

Great video. Valuable information. Thank you. It is appreciated.

@hu5116 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Red: I believe Nova makes a larger drill press (or maybe smaller: more than just 1) with all the same very very cool electronic controls and variable speed. It will actually set the speeds and feeds for specific materials via user input: you just pick the material, and the computer does everything to include shutting off when you reach desired depth. It even has a mode for almost automatic tapping. I think when one considers all the cool stuff this does, it’s a crazy bargain to bring the shop into the next century, and should take top prize. (IMHO)

@Wayneooo 2 жыл бұрын

Nice presentation. Thanks.

@carterscustomrods 2 жыл бұрын

@22:25 The Wixey is good, as long as you never move your table at all. I made my own from two line lasers, aaa battery packs, a few pieces of linear extrusion (2020 series) and mounted it above the chuck (so it moves with the chuck) but I can position it at the part of the block that the spindle comes out of. I put the 5v lasers 1 at the rear, and 1 on the left side of the drill. It gives me two lines that intersect for pinpoint entry (giggity). All in all: Two, 2020 extrusions 100-200mm each $8ish (Also needed: Two 90 degree angle brackets $3ish. A couple m5 nuts/screws) I used an 8mm linear rod support to mount t each laser to the extrusion. And used 90 degree brackets to mount to drill press via large pipe clamp. Or you can.mount it to spindle area if it has one if the cheap depth measuring systems. It already has a screw type clamp.) Lasers usually 2 for $5. Battery packs usually 2 for $5 as well. Batteries, free, your wife has plenty (BOOM! Lol). Plus it's just fun to make it. And I did it this way because I'm addicted to linear rods, and V-slot/T-slot extrusions. Lol. It's so fun to work with them... but can be costly. My name is MrCarter. Thanks for coming to my TedTalk.

@timcarten8130 2 жыл бұрын

I also found the grizzly 17 inch drill press to be the best when I was looking for a drill press

@davidwalle5025 2 жыл бұрын

good review Bear. Shine on

@MikeBrown-ii3pt 2 жыл бұрын

Just a heads up for anyone in the Fremont, Ohio area looking for the H-F 13" 16 speed floor drill press...they have an "open box" on the floor for about $250 right now (10/3/21). They also have a 16 speed bench model "open box" for a little less. I almost bought them both but, I already have them so decided to leave them for someone that needs them.

@bobbiterryfields1402 Жыл бұрын

Always love your videos

@albiggers9348 2 жыл бұрын

Wonderful information. I watched a video earlier today and it is the first time I ever heard of a Nova. I'm drooling. Some of the accessories sound really useful. However, I bought one of the magnet base light a few months ago. Very disappointing. I think it must be just barely over one candle power.

@deepwaterescue4u Жыл бұрын

The nova is the best it has a lot of features in the digital menu that work automatically when set up, no belts to change or swap around for the different speeds all done on the front control panel and so much more.

@norm_sueb122 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video!!!

@donaldhollingsworth3875 2 жыл бұрын

I had a 20" Harbor Freight drill press. The spindle nose run out was .060 & the tram from front to back of the table was .100. I needed a drill so I could drill metal parts with precision. So I had to take it back. I ended up buy a table top mini milling machine for more money.

@brianlove3369 2 жыл бұрын

we have a drill press in the shop that was built in 1959 do not remember the name but has the original motor only thing that has been changed is the belts, it was a ton though, it was made to last

@thomasjackson8096 2 жыл бұрын

Enjoyed your analysis. However, the ShopFox vertical lathe attachment and the drum sanding kit, when used, put a side load on the spindle bearing that it wasn't designed to take. A little bit done occasionally shouldn't do much damage, but more use will cause runout of the drill quill as the spindle bearings wear. A drillpress is not a vertical mill.

@joecool509 2 жыл бұрын

I have the shop fox but hacked it to make it a VSD... something to think about is upgradability. replacing it with a 3 phase motor and VFD makes it so much better for changing speeds for the drill bit being used.. changing belts and getting close on speeds can be a hassle. adding a Digital speed readout is pretty easy.... beauty of the google

@paulhopkins1905 2 жыл бұрын

I have the 20 inch HF drill press. It's a hell of a drill press. The factory chuck leaves a lot to be desired though

@JCWren 2 жыл бұрын

It would be nice if the spreadsheet also included if the table is set up for T-bolts or not (so you can clamp a machinists vise to it).

@Vreguleift 2 жыл бұрын

Originally I was going to go with HF's standing model, but the bandsaw won out for floor space so I went with the cheapest table-top model, instead. Zero regrets. I primarily drill thick steel, and with a good step bit, it just chews right on through with zero effort. All brands aside, drill presses are WONDERFUL tools!

@FahimibnDawud 2 жыл бұрын

Good move! I bought a Wen and have an older hand me down Craftsman from my grandpa, but I wish I had bought a bigger bandsaw.

@vicktorpatriot1430 2 жыл бұрын

I like my gear heard drill press. Causing , got it off Craig's list . . Had to drive to Detroit to get it but came with a rotophase and two vise's. $300 bucks . While I was loading I swept up some 9mm , 40:S&W and some 5.56 brass.

@lilhappiehamster Жыл бұрын

i like the bear cartoon commentator.

@louisshambarger2230 Жыл бұрын

The spindles is usually #2Morse taper to a #3Jacobs taper for the chuck. The chuck on the larger drill presses such as the Delta and the Powermatic have 5/8” capacity. You might have trouble with the Morse #2 taper in the spindle trying to drill in steel larger than the 5/8” chuck capacity. It slipped when I tried to go to 1” in steel with my old Delta. Should be fine for woodworking.

@jamesotisjr2322 2 жыл бұрын

I had a bench top drill press. Not enough room for a cross vice, a half inch drill bit and a work piece. You need a floor model to have enough space to work on an ammo box or VW block.

@kevinroebke8050 Жыл бұрын

Interesting that one year later, in this time of inflation woes, that the Harbor Freight unit is currently priced $10 less than a year ago at $419.99. That's regular price, not a sale or coupon deal.

@michaelfisher7835 2 жыл бұрын

Cant believe you didnt mention Porter Cable. Great drill press for the money.

@tjtworkshop 2 жыл бұрын

Lookin' good there, bear!

@randallpartridge4275 Жыл бұрын

Is it possible to do a video of Drill Presses made under the same factory? I have noticed similar designs in different brands, Rikon, Ryobi, Craftsman, and Central Machinery. I often wondered if these were made in the same factory.

@scottmorris4914 2 жыл бұрын

Have you done a review of the best BenchTop drill press. I realize there are two different levels of benchtop, the ones around 8” and the ones around 12” or so. Personally I am looking at something in the 12” line.

@solorzano5810 2 жыл бұрын

That was a great drill press comparison, am interested to know what is your opinion on the Ridgid 15” drill press, I have several Ridgid machines(table saw,jointer,planer,routers) and they work fine, am in the market for a drill press and your opinion would go a long way for me, thanks

@007connecticut Жыл бұрын

Amazon directly and you get free shipping right inside your garage. I have a nice Jet coming .Grizzly sucks on shipping. I ordered a belt sander and I'm still waiting for the shipping. Been in a trailer for a month and still stuck on Missouri

@littleopie8761 2 жыл бұрын

I'm in the process of building some new broom sticks, which drill press do you recommend for the job,

@aaronlaumann7361 2 жыл бұрын

If you want to drool over a drill press look at the ellis 3400

@rickeymh 2 жыл бұрын

I like my harbor Freight 17". The best bang for the buck

@clanker1275 2 жыл бұрын

I agree with the Grizzly drill press.

@MRSketch09 2 жыл бұрын

13:56 I really wanted one of these, but the bench top model, got tired of waiting end up getting the Grizzly T31739 - 12" Variable-Speed Benchtop Drill Press with Laser, b/c I didn't have to fool with belt changing.. But that Nova floor stand model, while its worth it, its got a very real 500+usd difference in price. 18:02 I was really shocked to see this machine!? Another mechanical variable speed. (Not "evs" bear that I could tell)

@FangOfTruth 2 жыл бұрын

Not tools per say,but my local Walmart has Herman Survivors steel toe boots on clearance. 10 1/2 normally $65 for $19. Some were as low as $13.

@Vreguleift 2 жыл бұрын

I have to order all my boots online. No stores around here ever carry 14 wides.

@jamescarpenter392 2 жыл бұрын

Hey Red the Grizzly has a shipping weight is 260 Pound

@brandontalkmitt4596 2 жыл бұрын

My new Nova goes down to 100 not 1300 RPM and it is awesome with metal.

@blwnvtwn 2 жыл бұрын

Personally I like the Nova, when you figure in shipping (free on the Nova) it's actually only $95.00 more than the Grizzly. So why not have the extra specificity of the digital readout and control.

@robertgaritano7718 2 жыл бұрын

I bought the Ridgid 15" for $399.00 and it seems to work just fine.

@davehoward2791 2 жыл бұрын

I’ve been drooling over the HF Central Machinery 17” DP for a couple of years and finally pulled the trigger on it a few days ago during the Presidents Day sale, and with the 20% off coupon got it for $344. Can’t beat that with a stick! Seems well made, very heavy duty, but lifting that power head up on to the top of that tube by yourself is a job. Highly recommend getting a second set of hands if possible, lol. Haven’t used it yet but will give it a workout in the coming weeks. It has lots of good ratings so I don’t think I’ll be disappointed. Great video as always Bear, keep up the good work. 👍

@shanethoney6865 2 жыл бұрын

I feel like if you are stepping up to that Grizz... go for the 20" HF and better check.

@ronaldoleksy8264 2 жыл бұрын

The best drillpress is old school iron. Delta.walker Turner to mention a couple

@chrislawrence6991 2 жыл бұрын

You should have included the Nova Voyager!

@carterscustomrods 2 жыл бұрын

I wish Nova made a scaled down model. I am a 1 arm/leg woodworker, and changing a drill press speed is a nightmare. (Try changing belt location with 1 arm lol). Why is there not a $500 to $600 drill press with a VFD type device? Bosch makes the PBD-40 in Europe (240v) for around $400 (usd). But shipping is $200+ and then rewiring a way to get to 240v, and no warranty on drill press. I tried a 12in WEN with "Variable Speed" but the speed adjustment is horrible, and the press itself is 💩. Any advice? I'm incapable of working with electronics (adding a VFD, etc.)... my God I've tried... I've looked at the Nova Viking, but for $1100, it's way overkill for my needs, and out of my budget.

@pops71 2 жыл бұрын

You left out the WEN drill presses?

@dscott1524 2 жыл бұрын

none seem to have a spindle lock. Sigh. An old Craftsman drill press has one. That is a requirement for me. Cheers.

@paulhopkins1905 2 жыл бұрын

I think you have that backwards, Shop Fox is more of the home shop stuff from Grizzly

@PaganWizard 2 жыл бұрын

The link you shared for the Harbor Freight drill press is not working, at least for me. It starts to show it, and then the page goes blank white. I then searched HF for drill press, and it says "SORRY! We could not find that page." As for the size of the work table on ANY of these drill presses, there's no need to concern yourself with the size. There are tons of add-on drill press tables, or you can build your own with a piece of MDF, a length (your choice) of 8020 aluminum extrusion for a fence, and a couple T-tracks. EDIT::::It has only been a few minutes since I posted this, and now HF's webpage is down for maintenance. I'll check back there tomorrow.

@bobbyhickman7905 2 жыл бұрын

Sorry Red had to beat you out of honey jar on this one at Lowe’s. Great channel lots of usable and FAIR content. Greetings from Louisiana!! 15inch Porter Cable w/ light/laser/more for $381.00 Reg $509.00 Model PCB660DP 🎉🎉

@G5Hohn 2 жыл бұрын

Gotta say If I can afford the Grizz, I'm going to do my best to save a bit longer for the Nova.

@scottyV1000 2 жыл бұрын

I would be buying a lot more from Grizzly but they shut down their Muncy, Pa showroom which was within driving distance for me so now I have to pay their high freight costs - no thank you.

@Ratkill9000 2 жыл бұрын

Okay this is a video I've been waiting on. I need a drill press for my projects, mainly steel drilling.

@Vreguleift 2 жыл бұрын

It's mostly in the bits. I use HF's smallest model and drill through thick 1084 billets no problem.

@Ratkill9000 2 жыл бұрын

Yes but chuck slop is a problem and I need to drill somewhat precisely.

@Vreguleift 2 жыл бұрын

I've never had mine drill off of where my calipers marked, but good luck finding what you're looking for.

@BiPolarBear722 Жыл бұрын

What’s the purpose of the trough for metal working? Do you absolutely need it?

@denoftools Жыл бұрын

It is there to catch the liquid if you’re using a drip cooling system.

@bear1830 2 жыл бұрын

I need a drill press

@dancoffman4336 2 жыл бұрын

I only see one drill press here.....Powermatic

@courtneykachur9487 2 жыл бұрын

What can you do to increase the table size on those?

@denoftools 2 жыл бұрын

At the end of the video I showed an add on table for woodworking that will do that. As far as a larger cast iron? Find a larger machine and mod it to fit?

@PaganWizard Жыл бұрын

I know this video is a year old, but I wasn't looking for a floor standing drill press back then. Your pick for "Best For The Money" has actually dropped in price since you released this video, it's now $795 + $239 Shipping, which is $50 more than when you posted this video. Grizzly is now offering a 20 inch drill press model G7948 for $895 + $239 shipping. It has......... Motor: 1.5 HP Power Requirement: 120V or 240V, Single-Phase, 60 Hz Swing: 20 in. 10" Column to Center Type: Floor Range of Spindle Speeds: 180-3240 RPM Drilling Capacity: 1-1/4 in. in Steel Drill Chuck Type: JT3 Key Chuck Quill Diameter: 2.825 in. Shipping weight: 317 lbs Add in the considerably larger table, and I think this just might edge the G7947 out of it's first place slot PROVIDED you don't mind driving to pick it up, or have a free shipping coupon or sale event, so you can avoid the high shipping price.

@craigchiddo2794 2 жыл бұрын

There are 20 drill presses of all shapes and sizes on marketplace

@travelwell8098 2 ай бұрын

The rubber sanding set you mentioned is trash.... It works for light sanding... but applying any pressure causes the sandpaper to stop but the spindle keeps turning. You just can't get the sandpaper on tight enough.

@jeremysessums315 2 жыл бұрын

Can anyone suggest a good, cheap mill for working with aluminum?

@denoftools 2 жыл бұрын

Just do a search for "Mini Mill" they are all about the same. HF sells one as does WEN but they are all over the place.

@friday13thfan97 2 жыл бұрын

My father is still using his 17 inch HF after 25 years. He is a professional carpenter that thing was not babied.

@frodobaggins169 2 жыл бұрын

Grizzly because they stock parts! They are good people to deal with.

@patmcbride9853 2 жыл бұрын

Those prices make me want to buy a mill.

@PorgyPuddinPie 2 жыл бұрын

Uh... where is the WEN 17"?! 13A, variable speed, 4.75" spindle travel for $800

@goawaybaizuo 2 жыл бұрын

Damn, inflation has hit drill presses hard!

@edwarddavis507 7 ай бұрын

I just checked out the Grizzly price and you can still get for 825 dollars.

@RossWardistan 2 жыл бұрын

Wait a minute. Is it "no relation" or is Grizzly your cousin?

@travelwell8098 2 ай бұрын

I like the Grizzly because you can get 1.5 horses at about $1,000

@h7opolo Жыл бұрын

5:51 37 strikes again

@carterscustomrods 2 жыл бұрын

I thought every HF drill press was made as an Oscillating Spindle? I mean, they wobble about as much. Lol.

@carterscustomrods 2 жыл бұрын

@22:10 the WEN table is horrible. Ughhh MDF!. Really? With plywood prices back down in most areas, just make your own. It'll cost less, and be nicer than the Wen.

@michaelberroteran3467 2 жыл бұрын

Why didn't you mentioned "WEN" 17" FLOOR DRILL PRESS

@denoftools 2 жыл бұрын

Because no one sells it.

@michaelberroteran3467 2 жыл бұрын

Home depot sells it and they also sell a 15" floor drill press

@michaelberroteran3467 2 жыл бұрын

@@denoftools i can show you the website or screen shot

@denoftools 2 жыл бұрын

@@michaelberroteran3467 I looked at Home Depot prior to the video and they show the 17" as being out of stock and not available for order.

@frediefarmer 2 жыл бұрын

👍🏽👍🏽

@TheFeist77 2 жыл бұрын

don't want to deal with belts ever again. Digital motors all the way

@jonathancupp3686 2 жыл бұрын

Good information, but get rid of the stupid bear!

@cabman86 2 жыл бұрын

The bad thing about Harbor Freight is trying to find replacement parts.

@denoftools 2 жыл бұрын

They are working on that. They started a parts department, it's phone in only right now but hope to have an online version in the next year.

@cabman86 2 жыл бұрын

@@denoftools They need it. I have the benchtop drill press that needs a new return spring and a bench sander that needs new rollers.

@gsc01972 2 жыл бұрын

Most of all these drill presses look like harbor freight China product...same factory different prices..

@5274jacob 2 жыл бұрын

when did vtubers start reviewing tools?

@denoftools Жыл бұрын

2016

@robertprice727 2 жыл бұрын

Shocker he recommended grizzly product! A little conflict of interest going on here bear on bear business transaction?