Can’t believe I was in elementary school instead of buying tons of cheap Chinese AKs back in the day

Garand Thumb already did the PSA test. They ran 6k rounds suppressed full auto before it stopped grouping.

I picked up a $600 AR15 . I am a 77 year old veteran with no m16 experience, As aNavy corpsman trining for FMF deployment, I qualified with te 1911 and an M14 as the M16 was brand new.

My Grandfather owned the largest privately owned sporting goods store in Washington State back in the 1980's. This was before REI, Cabelas, Bass Pro ect. Mosin snipers $100.00, SKS $75.00, AKM's 89.99, Russian ammo cans 880 count $59.99, Swiss K31's $129.99. Mt Gawd Ibwish I could go back in time. The Golden Years of the 2A were truly golden.

Any well made AR-15. I have a Smith and Wesson M&P Sport II, I have had since 2017. It’s an “entry level” AR. I’ve put 5,500 ish rounds in it and NEVER had a failure to feed, jam or extraction failure. Just remember, that “entry level” AR today is the product of 60 years of research and development. As long as you do your part to clean and maintain it, it will work wonders. Also, since it’s “America’s rifle”, there will be ammo, components and replacement parts for it in droves to support it to keep it going, where other platforms are just not going to be supported anywhere near as well.

Rules of an insurgent from my study and experience...have a weapon that is good enough until you can upgrade from your adversary...also, you can get top name uppers and use PSA or Anderson lowers. It saves money and gives you advantages of top name stuff.

im surprised this video isnt just five seconds and says "AR-15" lol

I purchased my M1 Garand in the early 90s for $300.00. Times sure have changed

Stockpiling ammo is more useful for trading in a SHTF situation than massive gun fights.

I live in germany and recently brought an ak. In germany ak's run between 650-1499€ while AR's are somewhere between 1200-3500€ most of the at 2k. 7,62x39 is also a lot cheaper here. 350€ per 1000 rounds while .223 is at best 600€. Most of the time they clock at 800€ per 1000. Therefore i will say that in germany the AK is still a strong contender.

I love PSA so much. They’re doing the Lord’s work

In 1994 my dad bought me a Norinco SKS for my birthday. New in the box, with the bandoleer and oil bottle, for $129. There was a whole pallet of them in the middle of the store and the used, beat to hell ones were stuck in a 55gal drum next to it. Norinco ammo was like $1 abox or something ridiculous. Still have it, and never modified it, thank god.

The movie with Robin Williams and Walter Matthau is called Survivors. An absolute awesome, hilarious movie. That was really a sleeper but is an absolute fantastic movie.

West central FL. New or pre owned AK, 800-900 SKS, 600-700 Cheaper manufacturer AR-15, new or pre owned, 550-800 And these are business or private sale prices.

I recall when dealers had stacks of SKS rifles at gun shows for $63 each. I'm not saying I bought a couple and put them away for long-term storage - along with 1,400 rounds of ammo on stripper clips - but I'm quite certain some folks did.

Another point: people shit on PSA barrels for dying around 5,000 rounds, but forget about the PSA warrantee. If you do ruin the barrel from heavy use, just send the rifle in and get a new one. You'll get to keep practicing on your cheap rifle and like you said, if SHTF happens, your likely round count will be in the high dozens unless you go looking for trouble.

Have both AR and AK and love ‘em just about equally. But if I have to participate in the defense of my subdivision, I’m reaching for the AK first. Where I live, and where most Americans live, you’re not going to be engaging anyone past 200 yards. Within that range 7.62x39mm is a better round in terms of penetration and stopping power. Also the AK doesn’t need to be cleaned as often and when it does need cleaning, it’s easier than the AR. Yes the AR is a little more accurate, but there’s not as big a difference between the two as many people think; the AK just takes more practice to be proficient. Yes the AR and especially the ammo for the same is lighter, and if you’re going to be humping around in the bush that’s a very important consideration, but if you’re sticking close to home as I plan to, the weight isn’t a big issue. As for ammo expense, 7.62x39mm isn’t as cheap as it used to be but it’s still competitive with 5.56x45mm; on that issue one doesn’t really have a big advantage over the other, although 5.56 is easier to find and you have a much better variety of projectiles to choose from. If you’re going to go with the AR I highly recommend a 20” barrel. You’re probably not going to be clearing rooms or jumping in and out of vehicles. I carried an M16A1 in the US Army infantry back in the 1980s and that is only an inch and a half shorter than an M16A2 or -A4; I spent plenty of time in APCs, deuce and a halfs, and jeeps, and I never considered my rifle to be cumbersome. With a 20” barrel you get a rifle-length gas system that gives you the best reliability with the platform, and you make the most out of whatever ammo you’ve running. Out of a 20” barrel, even Plain Jane M193 is pretty lethal; Mr. Stoner designed it that way for a reason. But most of all, best to stay out of trouble if possible. I served in peacetime myself but I’ve known many combat vets. You don’t want to go through that if you don’t have to. Remember, a situation that really requires you to get out a rifle and shoot at people will be a situation where they can shoot back. Everybody goes into battle thinking they are bulletproof but nobody is, and taking human lives, even if justified, turns many people into drug addicts or alcoholics. We live in dangerous times, no doubt. But I hope that none of us ever wind up having to shoot anything with our “SHTF rifles” besides paper, tannerite, or perhaps game.

I was trained with, and carried the M-16 rifle during my 9 years of military service, U.S.M.C and later the U.S. Army, I used both the M-16A1 and A2 variants. I own a AR-15 which mirrors what I was trained and trusted my life with. ( Minus the giggle switch ) of course. My barrel is not chrome lines, it is nitrided, it operated fine for my purposes. Hunting, recreational shooting and self defense. I will never be without one.....

The SKS is a rugged and accurate rifle. I bought 2 new Norinco SKS rifles when they first came out. The full sized was $100.00 and the 16" shorty version was $105.00. The shorty was about the best truck gun ever. The rifle and a chest rig of clips fit behind my pickup seat. I bought my first AR-15, A SP-1 in 1973. List was $199.00 and I paid $180.00. The Colt carry handle scope was also $199.00. New Colt 30 rd mags were $5.00. Real military ammo was still available and I bought it for $.07 a round. The dealer had two SP-1 rifles on the shelf, covered with dust. No on wanted a rifle with a plastic stock, parkerized in a "groundhog" caliber. They wanted polished blued with a nice walnut stock in a bolt action 30 cal. You are right about the AR-15. Great rifle. And if you get bored with it, you have "Barbie For Men!" Get some new parts, uppers in different calibers for all occasions, scopes, lasers, accessories are coming out daily! Great video!

Just helped my neighbor assemble 3 rifles off of PSA lowers and parts kits. Used fully assembled PSA mid-length uppers. 3 perfectly good rifles for his grown boys, right at $1500. Just in case :)

The best explanation I have ever heard about PSA and I wish I remembered where I heard it is PSA guns are not for the "tip of the spear" fighters.... sure it can be but they are made to be the rest of the "spear" needed to support the tip of the spear in order to be an effective unit. Between me and my group there's probably close to 30 psa guns in our line up and they have all been fantastic. Seems like as long as you get it and try it out and make sure nothing is wrong you're golden. I always put importance on trying equipment out before relying on it weather its a psa or a dd or lwrc.

Actually in the 80's the survivalist gun of choice was the mini 14. Got one in the late 80's right after graduation for a little under $300. At that time the AR market consisted of Colt, Bushmaster, and maybe Olympic Arms. The Ruger was the more affordable option and had a sizable aftermarket support, most of what admittedly was crap.

My budget go-to rifle is a PSA. Blem receiver that bought back when PSA had their grand-opening at one of their stores, mated to a PSA blem upper that I picked up almost 10 years later (NOT one of the Freedom Series). Magpul sights, Sig Romeo red dot, Streamlight ProTac HL-X, PSA Nickle Boron 2-Stage trigger, WPS Sling, a bunch of P-Mags, and quite a bit of AAC Sabre Black Blade ammo...all for less than the inflation adjusted price of your 80's Colt. Add in the cost of the CMMG 22lr conversion and the mags for it, and a few bulk boxes of jacketed ammo, and I'm just over that price.

Another factor to consider is that most people are going to be on the AR platform. So you'll find it easier to get ammo, magazines, and other accessories if SHTF. There's just a lot of it out there right now in America. Now that you can pick up a quality AR for around $500, it just makes sense.

Tim, you remember when you could get an authentic WWII, M1-Carbine for less than a $100. We're the same age. and I always tell people. A great time to collect cool overseas, mil-sup, was back in circa 1980's to mid 80's. I have a 2 Norinco and 2 PolyTech AK's. One set I don't touch, they're in pristine condition. The other 2 I use, but not that often. I also purchased 2 FN-FNC. A HK93 and HK94....The models I thought would be collector pieces, I always purchased 2.

Del-ton Sport is what i went with about 10 years ago. Light weight - in part due to its light contour barrel - but i don't expect to do constant mag dumps with the rifle so I don't mind the thinner barrel. The rifle has never jammed and is accurate. I have a red dot sight co-witnessed with the srandard front sight & a pop up rear sight. I put a small piece of a rail on the factory handguard for a light. Combine that with a chest rig, 9 total mags and a small stockpile of 55 grain ammo that works great in the 1/9 twist barrel and I don't feel undergunned in any situation..

You're obviously correct. I picked up FALs at Roses's stores, a Southern Five & Dime, for 300. 308/7.62x51 was maybe $.40 a round from South America and Europe. I found a few boxes of Norinco 9mm 115 in a safe with a $4 price tag. And it worked well in the Beretta 92 that were the rage back then.

I catch the "Blem" sales at PSA for AR lowers, then catch a sale at Bear Creek for my upper. I built a .300 AR pistol for under 500, including an optic. Just put together an AR-10 in 6.5 Creedmore for just under 650 with the same combination upper and lower (With a Stainless heavy barrel.

the best is what ever you happen to have in your hands at the moment....any gun is far better than bare hands

The best SHTF firearm(s) is what you already have on-hand, and are familiar with. That said: 9mm handgun- cheap ammo, and firearms are affordable. AR15 - much cheaper than AKs (!?!?). See PSA 😊 I remember (back in the day) when AKs and x39 were both cheeeep 😢😂 (Edit: AK is waayyy easier to maintain (disassemble/clean/reassemble) - but the cost (today) makes it a tough entry level firearm). We old timers had it easy 😁)

Proper video Tim. Relevant. Informative. Good stuff. This is Tim from 7 years ago making good videos. I like it!

I've got an M&P Sport II. Magpul rear flip up, A2 front post, and a Romeo 5 on top. Top tier budget setup in my opinion. Saving for a flip magnifier.

I am going to want something that doesn't require a lot of maintenance. One that can be easily field stripped and quickly maintenanced on the go if, IF, there are any malfunctions. I like big internals so as not to lose them if I'm on the go, and one that can use its own internals as tools to remove other parts if need be. One that delivers a heavy hitting round, doesn't have to be long distance accurate, as long as it has stopping power in a pinch. I think you know where this is going.

PSA sells a Glock 19 & M4 clone package for $799 as a regular price that would serve most people well.

I lean towards versatile platforms like AR-15 variants for their customization options and widespread availability of parts and ammo.

Hi Tim , I really enjoyed this video 6:am in Commy Ct.needed something good to think about !!!! Thanks a lot for being there 💥🔫🇺🇸

Another thing to consider is that most AR parts are plug-and-play and easy to find. Any teenager can read the manual, put one together from a box of parts, take it apart, replace parts, and clean it - it's like a Lego set. The SKS and AK requires actual gunsmithing (hand-fitting, lathe work, drilling, etc.) to put together or repair, which will be scarce and difficult to maintain. The SKS/AK was popular for SHTF in the 80s because the price was so low that if it broke, you just trashed it for another one.

Here in va , we had a Roses department store , like a target today and they had a gun ammo counter, and we used to get a sales Paper in the mail , late 80s , early 90s and they always sold nagant , sks , m1 carbine (non matching # , and had a few runs of m1 garands ( non matching as well) they sold lots and lots of chi com and Russian ammo , what great days this was , great memories

A trick we use to cut wind noise at work is "put a bandaid on it" it will cut some of the wind noise out. We use it a lot on our radios. Up in the crane basket and up tower.

Hey Mr Tim, I can remember crates of these were sitting in a favorite LGS for $49.00. That was in the 70s when I graduated Highschool...

Zastava M70. Picked mine up when the first chrome-lined barrels came out with the bulged trunnion for about $850 in 2022. Gets under 3 MOA with irons at 100m or with an optic at 300m. Still hits targets out to 500m (haven’t tried further than that, but 500m honestly was crazy far). Fallback, I have two 5.56x45 AKs (converted Saiga AK-101 for $400 and Zastava M90 for $1000) that both work great.

This was a really good video. Thanks. Subbed.

Great video and knowledge

My SHTF rifle is a pimped out Serbian-made Zastava M92 and it is AWESOME!

A few years ago at work me and a buddy were browsing PSA website. If you bought a lower and upper separate you could “build” one for right at 250. Needless to say we took advantage of the good times.

"Now the communists run the show." 😭😭😭

Since I can gauge all the important tolerances, I still use quality barrels and bolt carrier groups in my AR rifles..Replace the cheaper ejector, extractor springs with Sprinco or colt springs and make sure to check the head space with at least a go and no go..If possible find a place with a function gauge to make sure the chamber and throat is good to go.. Finding a good armorer with the right gauges and know how is important and is worth the money..

Love the sound of the brass hitting the walls/floor!

In canada we have type 81s and sks. 1200 and 500. These are the best value guns we have. No AR 15s but Chinese surplus

Another thing is that, because so many ARs are made and sold nowadays, you can also be patient or get lucky and pick up something like the $900-$1000 AR sold for less as blemished. I got an Adams Arms AA15 (adjustable gas, short-stroke piston) AR as my first AR for like $600 if I remember right. Definitely not Gucci, but a bit better than your standard $600 entry level AR. Still running flawlessly today.

Back in 1988, I worked at Radio Shack and my Manager was going through a Divorce so he offered me his Colt AR-15 A2 Match Grade Rifle for $350 and he tossed in a High Standard Police Riot 12-Gauge (6+1) for FREE! Today I recently built a PSA "M16A4" with a Full-length Stock and Mid-length Gas-tube 16" Barrel that went together for right at $400 - PLUS I have a PSA 10.5" AR Pistol that I built for less than $200! Yeah, Palmetto State Armory makes good quality components at extremely affordable prices!!! 😁

Another great video! It had me thinking... MAC is not the most entertaining channel I watch, but every time I watch a MAC video I can't help but agree with 99% of what he says. Quality, informative, UNOFFENSIVE content. Great channel for helping people understand American gun culture.

Another cool aspect of the “budget” AR is you can upgrade as time goes by, like with a high grade BCG or drop in trigger, or any of the hundreds of products you can get for tac furniture and lights and slings

Awesome work! 👍

A Glock 17 and a M4-ish carbine with an aimpoint is suitable for most situations. Both very reliable, part around enough, effective ammo and easy to maintain. And also very important: they are light. Remember that you need to carry you stuff 99,99% of the time. This was what I carried in the Dutch army for 4 years (Diemaco C7= Canadian M4 copy) under various conditions from freezing snow and ice in the German mountains to very hot and dusty in the south of France. They never failed.

I think the Windham Weaponry MPC is the best affordable rifle. Right before covid i scored one with full hyrdo dipped magpul furniture for 420$ slightly used. Now people want 8 to 900 new and about 700ish used. But anybody whos handled a Windham weapony knows they are the best built basic ARs on the market and are worth a few hundred more over a PSA or radical level gun

Mr Tim always has informative to the point videos. He was the first gun tuber I ever subscribed to back in the day..followed be Hickok45 and FPS Russia..sic🇺🇸

I already have my shtf guns. I have 5 Galil Ace's and 10 AK's. All covering from 556, 762 NATO, 762x39 and 545. Also have different length barrels. I have everything covered with my AKcs and Galil's.

Great video !

I'm with you Tim. 15 years ago I would have said AK. But today, there is no way I'm giving up the AR15 as my GTW rifle. I'm so heavily invested in the platform between training, parts, and ammo, that's nothing else that remotely comes close. I've seen new Blem guns for $379 plus transfer fees. Nothing can touch it for the capability at its price point. As much as everyone poo poos mil-spec it's the sole reason why America's rifle has taken off the way it has. Everything is standardized and interchangeable. You can't say that about the AKs. Heck even the AR10s up until a few years ago.

even if I have to spend more now Im sticking with the AK platform. undeniably the AR is a good choice though especially on a budget. best thing to do is get both!!!!!!!

I run all 3 … I like guns ! The AR platform is the one we will be relying on if things go bad.

I hadn't really thought of stockpiling the same gun X5 or X10 for friends and family. I have a few guns, but most are different manual of arms and ammo. Good idea!!!

Several decades ago I bought my Chinese SKS. Never had any trouble at all. At the time I bought a crap load of Chinese ammo with clips . Checking my ammo stock I found a couple boxes of the Chinese stuff. I have had several AK type rifles but I always go back to the SKS for fun shooting. That being said, I have my Colt AR for serious business. Having the SKS for backup gives me peace of mind.

LMT Specwar and Glock 34 is my go to loadout

Great video! I would also add the Ruger American rifles in the budget SHTF rifle category. The 5.56 and .300BLK versions use AR mags, and they can be bought cheaper than a lot of budget ARs.

Garand Thumb recently ran a PSA upper budget model on a full auto lower and got over 5000 rounds before they started to have malfunctions. To be clear, that was over the course of a few days, not mag dump after mag dump.

I sure wish I had bought some Yugo M59s when they were $140. 😑

Shotgun News advertised SKSs for $79.99 back in the 80s, I remember 😂

Ruger AR15, (1,000 rounds NATO 556/ 3 x 30 round clips) Mossberg 500s, (short/medium/regular 12ga., #4 Buck) Ruger 380 (10 round clip, 2 x 12 round clips, 100 rounds at home)

I love both platforms! PSA regularly runs specials on AKs (GF3) blems for $629 and mine runs flawlessly. I also run their AR platform 7.62x39 (KS-47). Their 5.56 ARs are also good. Good deals can also be found on Sig 516s and others on the used market.

Bolt action Tula M91 Mosins were still $100 in 2008. Now 300-500.

I saw a blem Palmetto for under $500 the other day. Especially if you don't have a repeating rifle I would pick one up. Train with it!

The best SHTF weapon is the weapon you have ammo for. I purchased some 5.45 ammo back in 2010 ish. So the AK-74 was my go to. Also at the time S&W made AR-15 uppers chambered in 5.45 at the time so I picked up a couple of those uppers at that time. Then that ammo dried up, then I purchased 7.62x39. The AK-47 and SKS became my go to, now before the shut downs I stocked up on 5.56 so the AR-15 became my go to.

i'll never forget the coat rack corner behind dad's big coat there was a .444 marlin and a 870 remington (pederson was rem designer if i remember right) those were the home guns for shtf.

Its funny that in the very early 2000's AR'S were around $1000 and AK'S were around $300 now its bass akwards

I agree, but I also think a PCC is a very viable SHTF rifle... Particularly in 9 mm (my least favorite round)... It has a certain attraction for practical reasons... Not a super terminal ballistics option, but cheap ammo and pretty good performance out to about 75-100 yds.

I remember going to Florida when I was a kid in the early 90s. Gun show had a norinco sks and 1000 rounds of Chinese or Russian rounds for $90.

Great Analysis and Very Logical. My .02 is a piston drive carbine of any flavor is the way to go.👍👍

In the survival community, or a survival mindset, I would think a rifle in 22LR or a 12 gauge shotgun would make more sense. I live in the Midwest and hunting is something that I would be able to do, or would want to do in a survival situation.

Psa was selling m16a2 clones on sale for 650ish on there website at one point

For $375 (maybe slightly more if you don't have a local ffl that sells lowers and have to order one and pay a transfer fee) you can get a "Standard" rifle kit from Outdoor Sports USA, add their BGC and sights and upgrade to an M-Lok handguard then get an Anderson lower and Magpul Pmag from your local ffl it they have them and if not then order a PSA lower and Pmag from PSA.

Great video. Practical information and I was practically giving you a standing ovation when you broke out the inflation calculator - yes, a lot of stuff WAS cheap back then, but a lot hasn’t actually changed except relative to what else is available, which was I think one of your best points. Also need to consider that for the average American earnings and therefore buying power haven’t kept pace with inflation so a tight budget today is relatively speaking tighter than it was in ‘85. Some other options to consider are used upper assemblies from mid-high end manufacturers, and since you didn’t really speak to handguns LE surplus Gen3 Glocks are dirt cheap when they pop up and parts are still plentiful as the Gen3 is still factory supported (unlike the Gen4s, which I really liked but see why from a practical standpoint they had to sunset them before the 3s). People’s complaints about the Glock mirror those against the AR - but there is a lot to be said for something that is inexpensive, reliable, easy to use, in the most common caliber in its category, with plentiful mags and parts.

Agree on ammo usage - there likely wouldn’t be very much ammo available. A light bolt action 308 would probably be the best all-around option, like a Remington 700. Best defense would be your anonymity more than any firearm.

Great idea on testing the psa, would love to see u do that. Garand thumb did similar test on a psa ar, it did ok. Also would love to see u pick back up on the bcm ar test.

I found the Smith&Wesson M&P Sport to be the best bang for my buck. Under$700 and all the videos have shown they run flawlessly 1000’s of rounds through them cycling various kinds of cheap ammo through without jamming.

Nope that’s definitely not me at 4:32 👀

It is a strange new world. I bought a unconverted Saiga 12 for 499 just 15 years ago. Recently I bought a really nice ar 15 for just 599. I remember thinking 599 for a wasr back in the day was a CRAZY high price.... surreal

Great Video… I own all 3 of these… my new preferred SHTF option is the C-308 from Century… the ability to use surplus mags from Germany as well the fact that 308 is an extremely popular in the US for hunting and 308 can kill much larger game than 223 can

The beat SHTF rifle is the one you have, that works, and you can use comfortably and correctly.

Me that has too many guns already, I'll need whatever Tim recommends 😂

Garand Thumb did a test on a PSA upper with a full auto lower. Over 4 thousand rounds before barrel was shot out.

Well produced video. Very informative. I still like the Ruger mini 14 and 30. Your thoughts?

Agree with your point about how many rounds a person will expend in a SHTF scenario. Everyone seems to focus on romantic what-if’s versus the probabilities. Sure, have a reliable rifle and other weapons with a modest stockpile of ammunition (AR-15 is logistically the best), but it’ll be those daily use resources (food, safe water, place to escape from the elements, etcetera) that will become scarce. Skills with weapons are fun to learn, but it’s highly unlikely you’ll be part of a team clearing buildings or guerrilla squad.

Such an important point you make about STAYING ALIVE. 👍 So many people spend their resources on buying up tens of thousands of rounds, but almost any scenario involving the need for that much is usually contrary to survival. Staying out of trouble is everyone’s best strategy. Some people have siege fantasies where they’re holding out against Government forces, holed up in their McMansions made from pine wood, chicken wire and foam with a thin stucco exterior.

Great video thanks from Belfast Ireland 🇮🇪

Good morning from Oz, I always find it funny that you only got the SKS. We got the SKS but also the SKK, which was a magazine version, which took the AK mag. And we could buy them for $79.99 and a case of ammo was about $120. And it was estimated that over 500,000 rifles came into country before the government banned them. The ammo has become quite expensive now. And when a rifle comes available, they are only used by license feral control people. They are NOT available to the average citizen as the government banned them.

I believe the AR is absolutely the best way to go. Cartridge works perfectly fine, parts will be everywhere, ammo will be everywhere, etc...

"The Communist run the show"... sad fact.

I bought a Russian SKS in 1994 for 112 dollars. Unissued in cosmolin loved that gun.