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Betfair trading for a living | How sceptics can be your greatest edge

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Bet Angel

Bet Angel

Күн бұрын

Betfair trading for a living is something that lots of people aspire too.
After all, how many people would love to watch and be betting on sports for a living? It sounds like an ideal lifestyle!
The reality of doing this for a living is a little less glamorous than how it's often positioned. It often involves working just as hard as you would do with a 'normal' job, but without any security.
But over the last 20 years, that is exactly what I have done. I was trading before anybody else, went full time when I had a good career and had to invent trading software to be able to do what I wanted.
When I spotted the opportunity of sports trading I knew exactly what I was looking at and I pioneered the concept of trading the sports market on betting exchanges, the same way you would trade on financial markets.
But the story of how I started that and what happened next is often lost in common scepticism & misinformation, put forward for many reasons.
But my path through the markets has been deliberate, carefully planned and documented. Despite that, from the very start to 20 years later. People would prefer that my story is somewhat different.
At first, this really would drive me mad, but ultimately I came to terms with it when I realised it actually led me into a whole new arena that made me even more effective in the markets.
I thought it was worth sharing that experience with you, so you can take some inspiration in whatever you are doing. Whether it's Betfair trading or some other path.
#betfairtrading #bettingforaliving #betfairtradingforaliving

Пікірлер: 103
@sentapua6180
@sentapua6180 3 жыл бұрын
Great!! You went to a controversial career and became an iconic reference for those who really understand the concept of it. (myself included). For those who can't see it (perhaps because of scepticism of this industry) there is nothing we can do other than wishing them to keeping filling up exchange with volume and liquidity...
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
I agree! You will be judged by the market and that's the ultimate judge.
@maximilianjulian5426
@maximilianjulian5426 3 жыл бұрын
Instablaster...
@dmepic6453
@dmepic6453 3 жыл бұрын
To the general public Sports Traders will always be gamblers. Thankfully there are people like Peter to clear this subject. Thanks for the great content!
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
Well said!
@jonniekay4731
@jonniekay4731 3 жыл бұрын
It's still a gamble as to whether the trade will pay off.
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
It is a gamble, but a very educated and clever one.
@dmepic6453
@dmepic6453 3 жыл бұрын
All Comes down to methods and discipline! Knowing why you lose money teaches you more than actually making money. You have to see the long run... It's a marathon, not a sprint... Unfortunately it took me almost 8 years to realise it.... 😅
@fender1000100
@fender1000100 Жыл бұрын
​@@jonniekay4731 Life's a gamble.
@MackinOz
@MackinOz 3 жыл бұрын
No good deed... I'm very new to sports trading and I desperately wish I had stumbled onto it ten years ago. All the work I have done has necessarily involved recording, analysing and developing insight in order to improve and that is all Peter has done. The bias he has encountered is really snobbery - and it sounds like being in England might be part of the problem. Who cares what other people think? That's the real lesson of life in my opinion. Anyway, I'm here now so let's get on with it. Fantastic content Peter! Thanks!
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
It's funny you say that as I often feel I get a great reception in the US and that's why I've returned there often, despite the fact exchanges don't operate there. But they seem to get it and appreciate the hard work and innovation.
@Paulwell
@Paulwell 3 жыл бұрын
Hi Peter, great to hear your story of skepticism and positivity! I was at one of your early seminars at a Coventry Hotel many moons ago (Not sure which year) but I'm sorry to say whilst I have always had the enthusiasm for Trading, I still haven't mastered the skill! I'm still positive though and haven't given up. (I think my main problem is getting side tracked by trying other methods, tipsters, betting bots, etc) To be honest I've used BA on a couple of free trials but I use your main rival 'AGT' as I have a fully paid license which doesn't involve a subscription! I need to get the skills to Trade successfully so that the subscription cost will be a minor issue! By the way I remember at your seminar you mentioned avoiding your small children accidentally placing bets by playing with your keyboard - no doubt they're all grown up now and have their own keyboards - you just have to watch out for the pet cat practising it's typing skills! Thanks again for sharing your story, Paul.
@Mark_Robinson_
@Mark_Robinson_ 3 жыл бұрын
I came across a video the other that was basically saying sports traders were con men just out to promote their products and have no interest in teaching people how to trade. Clearly the person who made the video has watched Peter and others and is not very good at trading. Peter, especially has taught me lots since I started to use Bet Angel and I’m learning to become a better trader. 👏🏼
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
Many thanks. I don't blame people for being confused as so many people have jumped on the bandwagon now, so it can get very confusing. But when I set out all that time ago, I never would have guessed that people would still be trying to decide whether I did this for the right reasons or not and whether I am actually doing it. It's amazing!
@robtaylor2650
@robtaylor2650 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent back story Peter, and it just goes to prove that it can be done with, the right mind set, determination and desire to achieve. I totally get the skepticism too. I'm a newbie on BA Trader and have tried to explain how you can make money no matter the outcome. I even showed a work colleague a very simple Betfair trade on my phone (socially distanced of course). He still didn't believe it. Said it was akin to witchcraft 🤣 I'm approaching a significant birthday number next week and I'm starting to think that maybe, just maybe, I'm not going to have to keep getting up at 630 in the morning for the next 17 years to earn a living. I know it will take time but thanks to you, your videos, training and moreover your excellent positivity I know I'll succeed eventually. Keep the videos coming - look forward to many more. All the best Peter!
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
It looks like your comment got truncated there?
@robtaylor2650
@robtaylor2650 3 жыл бұрын
@@betangeltv which part ?
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
I see it now, not sure what happened there?
@robtaylor2650
@robtaylor2650 3 жыл бұрын
@@betangeltv anyway, what I said above ! 👍👏
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
I think one of the really important lessons I've learnt is taking risk. I was a bit nervous about doing this, but did it anyhow. My experiences since then have taught me that anything I would have chosen at that point would have probably worked out anyhow. So it was an important lesson.
@metalguru5226
@metalguru5226 3 жыл бұрын
Fantastic video, I feel the most important lesson you share in it is that "human nature is one thing that never changes."
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
Absolutely!
@stonecleaning
@stonecleaning 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent vid Peter. I love these type of vids, the comments from bedwetting mugs are priceless. More please lol.
@peterscott5814
@peterscott5814 3 жыл бұрын
Great video. I take away a lot of ideas. I didn't really enjoy pre-race but I actually do enjoy inplay horses despite people saying "its a mug tax" or "you WONT make inplay pay!" it drives me to try different things like changing liability, market selection and making up my own set of rules. After 11 months I still believe I can make it pay for me based on mindset & my own rules I'm comfortable with. It really is time in the market. Even races I don't like the look of I'll still watch & observe because why not
@melancholiac
@melancholiac 3 жыл бұрын
Peter, many moons ago I tried to get TED interested in your doing a presentation. I never heard from them and guess neither did you. Their loss. Just name-dropping that you'd met Warren Buffett years ago would have piqued much interest. So pleased you have made it past 20 years of trading. I wonder how many others have succeeded thanks to you?
@lubosdanis5547
@lubosdanis5547 Жыл бұрын
Scepticism is funny. The stigma of betting is deeply ingrained. Even though I get around 16% roi on football (small market though avg 30k on busy month) I still wouldn't tell my father in law, who designed IT systems for some major banks, about what I do on side of my main job. He would just see the numbers rather than biases.
@betangeltv
@betangeltv Жыл бұрын
I think it's really curious, it taught me a lot about the way people think.
@karllocke4088
@karllocke4088 2 жыл бұрын
WOW!!!! Good on you Peter, well done mate, please would you consider writing a book, perhaps over two or three volumes of your work. Please pass on your valuable work, many thanks
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 2 жыл бұрын
I've always been too busy trading to write a 'proper' book. I always feel like if I'm going to do it, I should do it properly. I need to write up my experiences, though, so I may do so soon. I see so much misinformation given by people who are simply trying to position themselves as an expert, I think people deserve to understand trading properly. Rather than second-hand.
@futnostalgia
@futnostalgia 3 жыл бұрын
Another fantastic video, anyone new to Peter see his video on Psychology (rock paper scissiors video too). There was also another video where Peter explained his journey. Really like these reflective videos. For the record if you doubt Peter is active in these markets trade them! chances are you are on the losing side, everytime you think why did they pull the bid or offer (and the price jumps or gaps against you by 5 to 10 tics) its prob him!
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
True trading is very counterintuitive and I guess that's why a lot of people struggle with it. But the underlying strategies and tactics I use are typically quite straightforward. I don't do anything 'clever' despite the speculation.
@propostadevalor
@propostadevalor 3 жыл бұрын
Many thanks Peter
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
You're welcome
@stefanvortex8069
@stefanvortex8069 3 жыл бұрын
Another amazing video, Really enjoy these videos. Thanks
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it
@davegravy1842
@davegravy1842 3 жыл бұрын
well done peter you are the GODFATHER of betfair trading
@pawel6450
@pawel6450 Жыл бұрын
Keep going Peter !
@betangeltv
@betangeltv Жыл бұрын
Thanks
@ross5956
@ross5956 3 жыл бұрын
Hi Peter, you mentioned you would arb back in the day, do you consider that a type of Sports Risk trading, or gambling, or something else all together?
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
There is a little bit of risk with Arbitrage, but I think it stands on its own. Back when I started it was pretty easy to find bookies that were out of kilter with the market. But I once got caught by a bookie refusing to pay a 125/1 shot. So that hurts and seems much more common nowadays.
@tonyburn
@tonyburn 3 жыл бұрын
Peter you're an absolute inspiration! Thank you for this, I really enjoyed you telling your journey. :)
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it!
@markillingworth4836
@markillingworth4836 3 жыл бұрын
Inspiring video thank you.
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it!
@bigtcg3018
@bigtcg3018 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent video Pete! You’re doing great and providing insightful content for us Lehman’s :)
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
Glad you like them!
@niko73le
@niko73le 3 жыл бұрын
jealousy can be a powerful emotion too, i'm sure that can come onto it sometimes.
@Lewis-mc1he
@Lewis-mc1he 3 жыл бұрын
Peter when will you be doing the video on how to price up match odds in football please ?. You did thr one on goals and said that you will do this one too. Thanks and keep up the good work.
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
I have done a few on these, but there are a few more to come.
@esjcraft
@esjcraft 3 жыл бұрын
Another inspiration before I trade . . .
@ronwhitehouse23
@ronwhitehouse23 3 жыл бұрын
You do such a great job why worry about naysayers they are everywhere in life, just keep taking your profits and enjoy your cocktails on that sunny beach. If you ever get the time. Very best of fortune to you.
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
I'm not particulary concerned about them now. It used to be frustrating until I realised that they were probably most of the reason I exist. I've had some great experiences trading that I haven't shared yet and I look forward to doing so at some point.
@mpld1979
@mpld1979 3 жыл бұрын
Peter is a legend 🙏🤘
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
Many thanks. It's never felt like that, I just do what I think is right and the rest sorts itself out.
@georgeciolac7789
@georgeciolac7789 3 жыл бұрын
As I know "People who don't know / understand start to criticise others". I think is time to publish the book of your journey. How long we have to wait for a masterclass from BA team?
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
I've always felt a book is something you write at the end of your career really. But I think it may be worth publishing something anyhow, to put people on the right track. The current offerings are very poor.
@mediapc4747
@mediapc4747 3 жыл бұрын
Most people have heard of 'professional gambler' and accept they exist, the problems occur when you try to re-branding it as "sports trader".
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
When people ask me what I do for a living now I say I watch sports. People laughed a lot at either professional gambler or sports trader. When professional gambler, people think it's dodgy and if you explain sports trading they say 'Isn't that gambling'
@ianmarsden8568
@ianmarsden8568 3 жыл бұрын
@@betangeltv Casino 'gambling' seems to have been successfully re-branded as 'Gaming'. Perhaps the old 'turf accountant' term needs to be dusted down and re-used. Turf Gaming / Sports Accountant :) Perhaps not - very useful video. Thank you.
@dalephillips7873
@dalephillips7873 3 жыл бұрын
Hi Peter, I was wondering what type of percentage incomes are made from not just Trading but also from connected sources to Trading. It's an ever changing business world out there, especially with online being so dominant and prominent, and of course the last 12 months of a global pandemic and its impact on many businesses. I'm trying to find a business model and broaden my potential income horizons, I've been totally spun out over the last 12 months financially. So for example, what would your percentage earnings be from: Trading KZfaq Trading Videos Online Courses about Trading Thanks in advance.
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
Trading is nearly 100% of my income from those sources. KZfaq pays very little, I regulary get races where I earn more in ten minutes than KZfaq pays a month. In time terms, the cost of producing a video pretty much squashes any financial gain. You really need to be in the millions of subscribers before you get any useful income I would have thought. I've noticed some people really going for it on KZfaq content though, so I suspect they are trying to make it pay and it must make a useful contribution to them. But there is so much more money from trading, it's a near £100bn market a year. You don't need much of that to make it very worthwhile, but like any skill you need to invest a lot of time and effort to do it at a reasonable level. I've slowly moved away from charging for online content, so that revenue is tiny as well.
@dalephillips7873
@dalephillips7873 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks I appreciate your transparency and informative reply.
@petervlcko4858
@petervlcko4858 3 жыл бұрын
yes we are gamblers because we put money and expect to win after match or race or whatever finish. that way or that way we are making money from home. (if i can to call myself trader hard to say scooping pennies but sure) and in fact winner in trading at the end does not matter.
@kopthelotklopp1523
@kopthelotklopp1523 3 жыл бұрын
Wasting your breath trying to explain to people what you do for a living. The only people that don't think it's possible are the people that don't understand it.
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
I'm in agreement with you there.
@MichaelWilliams-mo1vv
@MichaelWilliams-mo1vv 3 жыл бұрын
Looking back at that first ever trade when both your back and lay bets were matched did that put you in a green up position or would you only have profited if the horse won/ lost?
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
I literally put too bets in and couldn't believe my luck. Hegding came about when I got in a mess and realise that by laying more than backing it would transfer some of the profit. It's funny looking back now, but this was all ground breaking stuff back then.
@abc-qv1pe
@abc-qv1pe 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video.
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
You are welcome!
@JAFKARNAT
@JAFKARNAT 3 жыл бұрын
Not sceptics:: Begrudgers, jealous, they are incapable of understanding how it works, let them on. We know, we appreciate, keep up the good work.
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
I appreciate that.
@darrenbent4446
@darrenbent4446 3 жыл бұрын
am very sceptical have saw some of your video about trading cheltenham and think your telling porky pies. if you trade 15 minutes before off i have trouble getting 50.00 quid stakes matched so with the size stakes you use i find it odd you can make as much on one race i dont think you can get 500.00 or in your case bigger trade size amounts matched in the time frame that you trade in. its all one big con to sell the betangel.
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
Hello, 'Darren' thanks for registering two different KZfaq accounts a day apart from each other to post abuse on my videos. The hilarious thing is that this proves exactly what I am saying in this video. You really couldn't make it up! Whether you like it or not I traded the whole of Cheltenham this year and only lost on one race and didn't have a problem getting matched. Probably because each race matched roughly £4m on average and most of that arrived in the final ten minutes. I do find it remarkable that I can do this, but especially so as I've been doing it for so long. I never would have guessed people would still continue to even consider that 20 years after I first came up with the concept. I was really worried early on that I would get pushed out the market, but having to explain to people all this time later, is one of the most amazing things that I've experienced in my career. It really defies belief, but long may it continue.
@quadraverve7917
@quadraverve7917 3 жыл бұрын
Have you ever considered trading UFC? Given the often wild swings in momentum during a bout and the fact that there are so many ways to lose, I think there is a lot of potential. I’m novice trader but have watched MMA/UFC for 16 yrs so have a reasonable knowledge of what is going on. Watch a few events and I think you’ll agree with me. Feel free to send me a message if you’d like to know more about the sport.
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
Never looked at it. I have strategies for two runner markets that I apply to a few things, so if the liquidity is there I may have a look.
@quadraverve7917
@quadraverve7917 3 жыл бұрын
Unless it’s a big PPV event I’m not sure the liquidity will be enough for you, and even then probably only the main or co-main event of if someone popular like McGregor is competing. But it’s been one of the fastest growing sports in the world over the last 20 years and might be one for the future if Betfair ever breaks into America.
@globi166
@globi166 3 жыл бұрын
Very nice video. I found that betfair have 1.1 million customers do you know more or less how many people are making living from trading on BF ?
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
I've actually seen a range of numbers from Betfair over the years, so I'm aware of how many accounts are in profit etc. The trouble is it's all under NDA so I can't actually say. But the exchange model lends itself to people more profitable that you would think in a betting market, if just for the fact that they lose less.
@decomezdecomez7639
@decomezdecomez7639 3 жыл бұрын
How much of ‘Bet’ angel is actually betting? I have always felt he name is doing a de service to the tool . I see it more as an execution tool geared towards trading with betting as an outdated option. I think your skeptics are more inclined to take an artistic approach to betting , whereas the traders who take your approach are more analytical and will most likely have an academic discipline in statistics and modelling . I personally think , the devil is in the detail , and a 10 mins video is not enough to shed light on the holy grail of private databases. May be that’s a video for future? Look forward . Thanks for this one.
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
I'll admit the name has been a burden. It certainly helps people find the tool, but it's not representative of what it is. I had a credit card revoke last week because my email address was @betangel.com and they considered me too big a risk. Can you believe it? Bu that more or less confirms what you say about the name and why I also think it was probably a long term mistake.
@decomezdecomez7639
@decomezdecomez7639 3 жыл бұрын
+1 .. a combination of branding mistakes and sports exchanges that don’t learn from history is leading to a diminished market. How do exchanges that are meant to cut off the bookies getting funding and eventually owned by the same bookies . This will work against attracting the players in the financial markets and I think this was the same beginners mistake you did by giving ‘BET ‘ angel a controversial name. Nevertheless we live and learn ! You made the best of what you have and your work ethic has more than made up for lost mileage 👍🏼
@mediapc4747
@mediapc4747 3 жыл бұрын
You can use BA for all styles of betting including the one people call trading.
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
Going back to when I did these financial events, it was almost impossible to get people on the Betfair stand at the first event we did. So at the next one, I started trading live and suddenly everyone got the message.
@decomezdecomez7639
@decomezdecomez7639 3 жыл бұрын
@@mediapc4747 hmm mixing pleasure with business?
@pgeezy2396
@pgeezy2396 3 жыл бұрын
The question that has to be asked is ......and I'm a massive fan . But why do you trade ?? Just to promote a product ? You charge 30 quid a month for betangel basically and you have over 40 000 subs . So even with a pessimistic 2 thousand out of your 40 thousand subs alone .....your making 60 000 a month
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
You've sort of got that the wrong way around. Bet Angel came about because I trade, not the other way around. Well over £50bn will be matched on Betfair this year and that is where the real opportunity is. The software industry supporting it is tiny and will probably only ever be a cottage industry. Bet Angel is available from £6 a month, not £30.
@pgeezy2396
@pgeezy2396 3 жыл бұрын
@@betangeltv cheers for the reply and a good one at that . If you Google prices for betsngel .... That's what comes up ......but maybe professional is different . But anyway thanks for the reply
@mattbenett8454
@mattbenett8454 3 жыл бұрын
HOW TO BE PROFITABLE WITH AN ACCURATE MARKET LIKE SOCCER BETTING ? (ACCURATE)
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
I have already done quite a few videos on Football matches and predictions.
@brunobenham5149
@brunobenham5149 3 жыл бұрын
@@betangeltv true sir, but there is a big difference between make soccer prediction and beat the ACCURATE market .
@RT-zk7yr
@RT-zk7yr 3 жыл бұрын
Great peter
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
No doubt they will use this as defining evidence that it's all made up. 😉
@RT-zk7yr
@RT-zk7yr 3 жыл бұрын
@@betangeltv hehe
@JonJon-rj6xo
@JonJon-rj6xo 3 жыл бұрын
It would be fascinating for your wife to do a video on the early days of living with a full time trader, as you have said you gave up your job and i think you said remortgaged the house.
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
That's right, but ultimately I never needed to dip into those funds. It was more a case of having a safety net if it didn't work. My wives was actually quite supportive as I'd generally made the right decisions before and she knew I would't be happy unless I broke out of a normal career.
@DanielB288
@DanielB288 3 жыл бұрын
@@betangeltv Wives 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@georgebuller1914
@georgebuller1914 3 жыл бұрын
@@DanielB288 Yes, I wondered about that too! LOL
@tennisone6376
@tennisone6376 3 жыл бұрын
keep go do your thing, most the haters are just bored with the office job
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
Many thanks
@Mat-mx7cg
@Mat-mx7cg 3 жыл бұрын
Hi Peter. I have a few questions for you. Do you have a work email that I can contact you on please?
@betangeltv
@betangeltv 3 жыл бұрын
It's best to contact me through our support team. I get a lot of emails some of which just get lost in the noise. Service levels are a bit higher in support! They can flag it to me also.
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