Hey! So hopefully you understand that this is not trying to rag on Starfield/Bethesda as a whole, just pointing out my own subjective issues with the intros specifically. Also, towards the end I say that it would be cool to have more games like Elden Ring and Baldur's Gate-again, I hope it's clear that I don't mean I want every game to be the size of those two games, that would be untenable. I'm just pointing out my admiration for how quickly those games get you into the world in ER's case, and how quickly you're making real meaningful choices in BG3. It's the efficiency of the games I'm drawing attention to rather than their gargantuan scale. Anyway, hope you get something out of the video even if you feel differently! Thanks for watching.
@danielcalabrese576911 ай бұрын
Considering the size and length of their games maybe the start is so slow and restrictive in order to have a bigger impact when you are finally let loose.??
@WritingOnGames11 ай бұрын
@@danielcalabrese5769I discuss that in the video with regard to New Vegas.
@danielcalabrese576911 ай бұрын
@@WritingOnGames firstly I always enjoy watching your videos and have done at least 1 or 2 years, I get what you mean about getting straight into it and I liked that about elden ring as well, I haven't played starfield yet but the other fall out games that have the slower starts are also interesting as long as it's done well, I just feel like it's good that there are different ways to start a big game and not just throw you straight out there. I'm just saying that there is room for both styles and I think they both have their pros and cons. Hope you have a great day mate. 👍😊
@EmeraldLavigne11 ай бұрын
@@WritingOnGamesit's actually fine to bag on Bethesda as an entire entity until they fix their transphobia.
@rickymartin445711 ай бұрын
@@danielcalabrese5769Problem is, Bethesda's intros aren't done well, did you watch the video? Look at BG3 for a good intro with meaningful choices. A mod that removes the fucking slog fests that are Bethesda intros is always one of the first mods that I install. Doesn't help that their general writing and especially dialogue, is sleep inducing, even if I enjoy the gameplay and loot mechanics of their games.
@SeventhWhiteCat11 ай бұрын
This is probably a lack of trust, on Bethesda's part, in their players and more recently, listening to the voices of reviewers and critics over their play testers. Using New Vegas as an example, many initial reviews complained about getting immediately killed after blowing off Goodsprings and heading north, taking the shortest imagined route to The Strip. This is despite the game mechanics telling you, and directly telling you, that taking on cazadors and deathclaws is suicide. Obsidian trusted that regular players would hang around the starting town and do quests to get the lay of the land, and repeat players and impatient ones could blow the town off and head where they will (usually east)
@BingFox11 ай бұрын
Always liked Morrowind's intro. A few rooms, some questions, and you're booted out into the world with nothing but a handful of notes telling you what to do next, IF you decide to read them.
@BingFox11 ай бұрын
@@harrybirchall3308 Part of what helped Morrowind is that the main villain utilized sleeper agents and secret hideaways to gain footholds in areas. Oblivion had weird stakes, as an Oblivion gate could be outside a city but the citizens are just going about their day, making mundane complaints about life. Skyrim has active dragon and vampire attacks but everyone in a town roids out and then go back to business after the threat is gone as if nothing happened.
@itsaUSBline11 ай бұрын
@@harrybirchall3308Yeah but making the tutorial dungeon optional rather than mandatory would be nice. That effectively what NV does with the stuff in Goodsprings, which represents a pretty good microcosm of the whole game going forward with a bit of tutorializing if you want it, but also you can just ignore it and leave if you want to. I had actually never thought about it before but the intro sequences in Morrowind and NV are pretty similar. Funny how Obsidian managed to get back to Bethesda's roots in a way.
@nunyabizness637611 ай бұрын
This was peak Bethesda and it's never been the same
@HeadsFullOfEyeballs11 ай бұрын
The reason Oblivion makes you spend half an hour in a cramped dungeon at the start is pretty straightforward. The kind of vista you get when you step out of the sewer --- a grand panorama, unobscured by fog, where you can go anywhere -- was a huge novelty at the time, so they really want to sell the moment through contrast with the previous claustrophobic environment. Their later games don't have a good excuse, they seem to just do it because it's a tradition at this point.
@EmilyKimMartin11 ай бұрын
My only problem with Bethesda intros are that they are pretty cool and charming the first time, and maybe the second time, too, but after the third time they become extremely unbearable as there isn't any way to just skip them without mods. Their quality in itself isn't the problem, it just becomes such a boring chore to go through the same slow paced "atmosphere building" process with every new save that it usually is enough to kill my urges to replay some of their titles.
@ACGreviews11 ай бұрын
EXCELLENT video as always
@expertb634811 ай бұрын
Came here through your tweet. Thanks for the recommendation.
@_nukeohio11 ай бұрын
ACG you're review of the game was not harsh enough. I wasn't even hyped for this game but I still somehow feel let down.
@ACGreviews11 ай бұрын
@_nukeohio I cant lie just to make you feel better or worse about something.
@dabd817511 ай бұрын
@@_nukeohiohe's paid off these days. Worth a buy KZfaq channel is real no bs reviews
@Dj-62111 ай бұрын
@@_nukeohioIf you're not fond of the game, that's fine. It's not for everybody personally I love it
@zennim12511 ай бұрын
starting with a boring job at the mines would be absolutely an amazing intro if it was just the mines, it would be a great contrast of going from a boring job in a claustrophobic environment to the overwhelming freedom of the stars
@Silver-Arrow11 ай бұрын
Row row fight the power
@toringmort423111 ай бұрын
that's literally what Starfield does
@zennim12511 ай бұрын
@@toringmort4231 you are still railroaded through a bunch of quests introducing you to all the systems, if it is your first play through you can't just get out of the mine, steal a ship and do whatever
@toringmort423111 ай бұрын
@@zennim125 Wrong. It's just Kreet and then Jemison. In fact I don't think you're obligated to go to Jemison at all. You're making it longer than it actually is. Leave mine > kill pirates in Kreet > go to the Lodge in New Atlantis. That's the first mission, if you can't tolerate that you just have low attention span. Bethesda has always been RPG, worldbuilding and exploration first and First Person Shooting second. I don't even think you ever played other Bethesda games if this first mission is enough to bore you.
@skrotosd11 ай бұрын
@@toringmort4231can’t have said it better, when I realized that you don’t even have to go to the lodge the first time because you can get a dozen jobs before the lodge door, I started to think about all the new characters I’m going to play
@rchassereau211 ай бұрын
Morrowind really was the best - you could create a character, learn the basics, get the gist of what's going on, and be out of the census office in like a minute
@toringmort423111 ай бұрын
it's also a worse story and less free world. A short intro is not good just as a long one isn't either. Starfield's isn't even that long, people are just used to looter shooters and battle royales so their attention span is bad
@Grogeous_Maximus11 ай бұрын
@@toringmort4231 Morrowind might be old, ugly and clumsy, but I can't agree that it's story is worse than Oblivion's. "Investigate whether you are the chosen one, while the world wonders what that even means, as you get involved with the politics of Vvardenfell" or "Bring amulet to some guy. Some guy is chosen one. Save world."
@EmeralBookwise11 ай бұрын
It's one of those very telling things that one of the more popular Skyrim mods, is the one that lets players skip the intro. Although this isn't a problem entirely unique to Bethesda either, as the Pokémon franchise has also received similar critique for its overly long and overly tutorialized intros. And it's not like the only alternative is Elden Ring kicking you out the door with little to no guidance. Contrast instead Breath of The Wild, where the game tutorializes the open world with the Great Plateau, a smaller open world environment that acts as a vertical slice of what the rest of the game has to offer.
@Jonas_M_M11 ай бұрын
This.
@saxoman111 ай бұрын
Well said! BOTW is one of my favorite games of all time! I'll get Starfield when it runs better on PC and modders spruce it up!
@inoob2611 ай бұрын
@@saxoman1 once FSR 3 comes out maybe you can benefit from that
@patricktanna494711 ай бұрын
thank you for saying this. game studios should look at mods to understand how to make their games better instead of relying on modders to complete the experience. i get so triggered with people assuming modders will fix issues and add missing content. it's not a given at all. look at fallout 78, it's the newer game and skyrim is still getting more attention from the modding community. skyrim was one of the best games at the time of its release and so it attracted the best modders. starfield is "just ok" and i think we will see some of the best modders turn their attention to better games. there is just too many insanely good competition in 2023 to be riding on the goodwill of skyrim forever.
@JadeMythriil11 ай бұрын
Definitely. BOTW did the intro well by giving the player a small slice of the open world as to not overwhelm new players but still allow players to explore and learn things naturally as they encounter new problems.
@cRub3r11 ай бұрын
Honestly I was gobsmacked at how poor that Starfield intro was, and I've enjoyed previous Bethesda intros quite lovingly. The slow paced mining was curious, interesting, a throwback to something like Half-Life, when suddenly in 15 mins I've been given my own ship by a character I've never met and I'm on the way to kill pirates - for some reason. Having been so distracted by all the valued clutter around me, I found myself not able to fast travel back to my ship and I called it for the night.
@ghosface35311 ай бұрын
Now I wonder what you think about Red Redemption 2's several hours into before we finally get into the open world, or something like Horizonn Zero Dawn which at least does it pretty well and short. I guess it seems like open world games always have a linear prologue that is an hour long, or you get a tutorial island/area like Far Cry 5 or Witcher 3.
@BaneDane_JB11 ай бұрын
What makes BoTWs opening so special, is its a microcosm of the freedom the game gives you, with the exception of no town. All they need to to is copy it, but with a merchant camp to sell stuff, and the yare golden
@connorlonergan496711 ай бұрын
I definitely agree with this take. I feel like Bethesda thinks they're creating this feeling of anticipation by forcing you to begin the game in such stagnance, but like you're describing it makes the intro sequences almost feel like a waiting room or a line at a theme park. I hate to be that guy but dark souls 1 is a great point of comparison because it has a near perfect intro. It actually prepares you for the journey you're about to embark on instead of just creating atmosphere and exposition dumping. It teaches you to expect the unexpected always, to be observant and look for ways to exploit a boss rather than wack at it with a broken sword, and it introduces you to the stakes. Ds1's intro is literally a distilled micro version of the dark souls experience which is everything an intro should be.
@lostmarble54011 ай бұрын
I remember being a teenager and not minding the fallout 3 intro. Starting out in this weird little vault shooting rad roaches with a bb gun felt familiar but just weird enough to be interesting, I shot my dad and was blown away that it didn't give me an immediate game over. The thing is though, I basically went into this game blind, didn't know it was a role-playing game with an open world, it was just something my folks got me for christmas cuz I'd recently played though my dad's copy of half-life 2. But I don't know if that experience really exists anymore what with the internet full of game promo material and people talking about games on social media, plus rpgs are basically a mainstream genre now. Bethesda should probably update they way they do intros but they seem to have embraced this as part of their brand so it's likely not going away any time soon.
@machscga623811 ай бұрын
Agree Fallout 3 and Morrowwind are probably the two best... Fallout 3 uses the Vault 101 "pens" to lore Immersively build your character. Also the lack of freedom has a massive payoff when you leave Vault 101 that other games don't match. Morrowwind just dumps you off the boat, and let's you find the main quest.
@ZucchiniCzar11 ай бұрын
Bethesda will forever be haunted by the success of Fallout New Vegas and The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind.
@joringedamke559711 ай бұрын
Here's hoping they eventually learn from those "ghosts".
@hana_irl1237 ай бұрын
FNV isn't developed by Bethesda
@llamatronian10111 ай бұрын
I like the Fallout 3 opening. I thought it helped immerse me into the world of the game. Maybe the problem is that it works *once* across all of these games, and after that it feels like a chore, whether it's replaying Fallout 3 or starting Starfield.
@huwguyver420811 ай бұрын
I think Fallout 3 starting in the vault was a great decision, probably the best opening sequence of any game I have played. The emotional impact of going from living in that cramped little vault to being thrust into this huge sprawling wasteland made me feel what my character was probably feeling at the time- fear, awe and exhileration all mixed together- a sense that my (in-game) life had been completely turned upside down. All that inpact would have been hugely diminished if they had just unceremoniously punted you out into the open world with none of that contrast to play off of. I don't know, sometimes I just like a game to buy me dinner first.
@scottgrey333711 ай бұрын
It almost seems like Bethesda has the whole thing backwards. Rather than letting players loose to explore the world and mechanics enough to become invested in the *why* of the game, they pump the breaks with a lengthy "here's what's up" segment that dripfeeds meaningful ways to interact with said world. Or basically: the whole time you're getting introduced to the world, all you can think is "man, I can't wait to play the game." It really highlights how opposite New Vegas' approach is. Some dude just tried murdering you for reasons you don't understand, and now you wake up in a small town threatened by escaped convicts... and it's entirely up to you to figure out what to do. I even think NV has the edge in terms of lore and storytelling, it just lets the player look for answers instead of tying them to a chair and dumping it on them.
@chukolance11 ай бұрын
All they need is an option that says "Do you want to go off the rails now or tutorial first?"
@Skip-Towne11 ай бұрын
Exactly. Then everyone (or at least most people) would be happy.
@cloud201811 ай бұрын
SO many mods out there are designed to let you make your character choices and skip the first dungeon. That is definitely communicating something to Bethesda if they ever choose to listen to their audience.
@xeroeddie11 ай бұрын
While I do use the Alternative Start in Skyrim myself because of the cart bug when modding the game, and because I've played the intro 100 times, I thought the intro was a great introduction and makes the moment you leave the cave leave you with such a great sense of freedom. I mean, if you think about the first time you played Skyrim, did you really think that the intro was bad? I get the sense of wanting to get out and explore, but I think there's something to be said about delayed gratification. For me the freedom was contextualised and made the moment you leave the cave unforgettable. But on repeated playthroughs I definitely like the option to skip it.
@carlosleyva-calistenia64009 ай бұрын
@@xeroeddie I liked it as a first impression, but the more I played the less I liked it. Forget about the length. My real problem with it is how it influences you on choosing sides. I never sided with the Empire when I played it, and funny enough, for many years I didn't even know you could escape with Ralof because when you are running for your life he is too far to be seen, while Hadvar is right next to you. ... not that it matters anyway, since the game plays exactly the same no matter who you escape with.
@AlexDenton045111 ай бұрын
You wanna know the best part? Seyda Neen and Goodsprings fixed these problems two decades and one decade ago.
@IFinishedAVideoGame11 ай бұрын
Can't say I disagree. As a Morrowind fanboy I've always felt that had the right approach. You start the game and within minutes you're free. Sure there is tutorial quests in Seyda Neen and Balmora if you need them but you can also just head off and do whatever you want. It's a much derided view these days but I really think that game is still the best example of the experience people are looking for from Bethesda. Total creativity and total freedom.
@SystemBD11 ай бұрын
Counterargument: Outer Wilds. The first hour or so of the game, you don't have access to the spaceship... But you are being tough the skills and basic knowledge you'll need on your journey. And they let you get immersed in the culture of the town, making you care about its inhabitants. Counter-counter argument: Breath of the Wild. You are out of the Shrine of resurrection in no more than two minutes and you can appreciate the scope of the world... Even if you'll need a few hours completing a similarly hidden tutorial before you can leave the Great Plateau.
@wiz340411 ай бұрын
do you mean The Outer Worlds?
@cansnake11 ай бұрын
counter-to-the-first-counter-argument: the only thing you HAVE to do in the intro is get the launch codes and see the statue. walking straight to the ship takes 2-5 minutes depending on how long you spend talking to Slate and Hornfels and once you have the codes you're free to do literally whatever you want. You're not directed to or obstructed by any of the extra tutorial content, they're just placed along the path to the observatory where you can see them and choose to investigate out of personal curiosity (fitting for a game about exploration.) By comparison, in Skyrim even if you try to speed through you still have to sit through the cart ride and execution, still have to do the linear dragon attack section, still have to wait for Ralof or Hadvar to shut up and cut your bonds, still have to wait for the gate to open and still have to get through 5(?) repetitive combat encounters while you sprint through an overly long tunnel to finally get into the world, and you still come out knowing very little about the setting and gameplay.
@Stephen-Fox11 ай бұрын
In principle I actually quite like 'a microcosm of the wider game' as the intro, rather than 'meaningful decisions that impact the game in 20 hours time' - But while I would be willing to make the argument that Fable and Fable 2's introductions are doing that, I'm don't think Bethesda's intros are doing that either.
@MetalB198511 ай бұрын
Zelda BotW does it too. You start in a very short cave and then you are free to explore "Tutorial"-Island, which is a microcosm of the whole game.
@PersonWMA11 ай бұрын
Unconfident about game design, so they try to double down on the window dressing, force-feeding you "life-life graphics", the expensive voice actors, etc, etc. The more expensive AAA gaming becomes, the less they become games.
@TamaHatter11 ай бұрын
When I was 12, i 've played Oblivion 4 the first time without knowing it was an open world game, and the first part did not helped to known about this new way of play. But , for me, breaking free of a confined and narrowed space, and jump in to a big world that was telling me to feel free and do things and explore as i ser fit, was a really meaningfull experience to me, and still is until this day. Thank you for help me reflect on that, enjoy playing ^^
@rei178911 ай бұрын
I think this speaks to Bethesda's typically poor writing in general. That they couldn't come up with a better, more compelling way to introduce the player into the world than what they usually do is because they can't really think of any other way. Even No Man's Sky's intro, which is the most painful section of the game as you barely have anything to start with, at least gets you working on rebuilding the starter ship almost right off the bat so you can get off the first planet. Other good open world or sandbox games like Mount & Blade, Kenshi or heck even Minecraft just drop you into the world with minimal explanation. You're supposed to glean stuff about the world as you go. And yeah you already mentioned Elden Ring and New Vegas. Those intros were short and sweet. They do what they need to do then set you off on your own to figure things out. And that's what makes those games so memorable, since that sense of adventure and exploration feel more personal, rather than something that you were kinda forced to do because it's part of the main quests. Additionally I think they try too hard to make those intros really cool-looking "at first." Especially cool-looking for games journalists. They keep looking for that artificial "wow" moment. That vault open moment. So that cart ride in Skyrim was set up that way so that you feel that sense of, "wow we didn't even have movable carts in Oblivion, or most other cRPGs!" all the way to "wow is that an actual dragon flying around!?" They seem to not know how real people, especially those with hundreds or thousands of hours in it, actually play these games, which is often starting a new playthrough with a different character and maybe different goals. And therefore we'll have to redo that intro again, and again, and again. Thank goodness for alternate start mods.
@ShoobedoobeOG11 ай бұрын
I wouldn't attribute this to poor writing as such. Saying their writing is "typically poor" says nothing of the well-written dialogue and interesting characters in both Elder Scrolls and Fallout games. I think Bethesda struggles mightily whenever anything heavily linear is expected of the player. In Starfield's case, you don't have the time/ability to really explore once the game is shown to you after exiting the mine. It's just differently paced than everything else they've made, which is why it falls particularly flat. You can't "see that, go there" like you can in Skyrim or Fallout 3. You have to wait until your combat tutorial, flying tutorial, base fighting/side quest tutorial, etc. to be let off the leash, but even then, the game has a real sense of aimlessness unless you play the main story to discover many of the primary locations the game has to offer. In some ways, Starfield is a "bad" Bethesda game if what you want from one is to never touch the story and just explore. Additionally, it's a "bad" No Mans Sky replacement if that's what you want. I guess what I'm saying is, deep tutorialization/handholding is not something Bethesda has needed to do in two entire console generations. I think with how many systems exist in Starfield, something that hasn't needed to be a strength in their games before due to their attempted simplicity, is now very evidently a weakness in their games' structure. It also doesn't help that the game has no controls in place to "guide" the player to more important locations outside of the main story, so the pacing just feels awful UNLESS you do the very thing each previous Bethesda game did not need you to do in order to "get" the game.
@aritrobhattacharya648011 ай бұрын
I wholeheartedly agree with the awful writing and narrative in general in Bethesda designed games. Mostly because an RPG lives and dies by its accompanying Narrative or else it would be just an Action Survival Open World Game with Lengthy Exploration (tbh that's what Bethesda is finally capable of making). In this day and age having a lengthy walking sim-esque intro sequence without even good setpieces to make it interesting is just appalling. It really speaks to the design sensibilities of Bethesda. I would love to point to the Intro of Prey which was essentially completely a waiting sequence but the whole scripting of the sequence down to the till date one of the best Title Drops. Bethesda should have learned something from their own published game, Prey (2017). It dealt with the same thing so masterfully. Bethesda is basically like Ubisoft at this point remaking the same game with tacked on Rpg mechanics and meh Gunplay!
@a1pha_star11 ай бұрын
Strongly disagree.
@logancade34211 ай бұрын
"Good, you're finally awake." "Not for long."
@calumbeattie533711 ай бұрын
The funny thing is, for all this is a long documented issue with Bethesda's opening, they actually used to have this figured out. If you look at Morrowind, this issue isn't there. You just talk to three NPCs (and in the process make your character) get a brief tutorial on combat (which you can skip), a very brief tutorial on magic items/spells and then you're out playing in the world. It's like a slightly quicker version of the New Vegas intro.
@itsaUSBline11 ай бұрын
I'd say they're about the same. You don't have to do the stuff in Goodsprings if you don't want to. Once you step outside the building where you create your character, you're totally free, same as Morrowind. If anything, NV is even more free because you already have your main quest to go to Vegas as soon as you start, whereas you have to find your way to Balmora and find Caius to start the story, albeit Caius essentially just tells you to wander around and do quests. I'd say they're comparable.
@calumbeattie533711 ай бұрын
@@itsaUSBline They are comparable- I should have said that Morrowind was "slightly quicker", (have now edited my previous comment to make myself more clear). Especially as the whole point of mentioning New Vegas was to make the comparison- missing out the most important word was stupid on my part. So sorry for that stupid mistake and making my comment very unclear as a result! I wasn't including all the stuff in Goodsprings as part of New Vegas' intro, because if you do that then they're not comparable anymore. Also, the video clearly doesn't include that stuff. The only reason I mentioned New Vegas was to give a better idea of what Morrowind's intro is like to people who haven't played it. Both intro's are short, to the point and get you into the actual game quickly (which is what every great intro should do). Personally, I would say that Morrowind does this slightly quicker, but New Vegas does a better job of establishing what the game's feel is going to be like than Morrowind does. Both are short enough that I can play them without installing an alternative start mod to get into the game quicker. The main point I was trying to make though is that Bethesda used to be much better at making intros.
@DRida6411 ай бұрын
Skyrim, the only game where I've saved moments BEFORE being introduced to the character creator screen. It meant I never had to go on the cart ride again. I think Skyrim's tutorial dungeon actually does a lot. You get to make meaningful decisions on HOW you can engage with the game, be it questing, combat style, mechanic interaction, etc. Rails don't feel like rails if you're having fun and getting to play how you want.
@rolfmauritzpedersen433511 ай бұрын
I have tried to play the game 3 times. never manage to get p ast the cart ride.
@Fingolfin119011 ай бұрын
@@rolfmauritzpedersen4335 Do you have ADD?
@christopherlyndsay861111 ай бұрын
None of those ways to interact with the game at the start are interesting though. All of it revolves around combat, or not doing combat, which would be fine if the combat itself was engaging
@DRida6411 ай бұрын
@christopherlyndsay8611 to each their own, i suppose. Though, it seems hard to play skyrim if you dislike the combat.
@christopherlyndsay861111 ай бұрын
@@DRida64 it was but the strength of Skyrim wasn’t in its combat, it was in its fascinating world and narrative
@ldragon251511 ай бұрын
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if the extremely slow start and the fact that it takes, for some at least, 10-15 hours before the game really gets good is the main reason for the mixed reception Starfield seems to be getting.
@vocabpope11 ай бұрын
And the absolutely insane bugs. Bethesda should've dropped this godawful engine three games ago...
@heisenbadger164711 ай бұрын
it's funny that the one thing 76 did better than the other bethesda games, is giving you a quick intro and just setting you free really quickly. There is a questline (now) you get nudged towards, but you can just do whatever. Appalachia is actually really fun to explore, if basically nothing else.
@abacabdk349011 ай бұрын
Have to agree on this, since I've been having hard time getting through intros in games over the last 10 years. The excitement to play the game burns away getting through the intro in the first session. I really just want to get going or I get restless. Also doing mundane chores in games while I have actual mundane chores to do, makes me feel bad so I put the game down. I hope I can have a good time with a game like this someday though, but not right now.
@randomguy667911 ай бұрын
Compare this to Baldur’s Gate 3’s intro. An action packed spectacle that efficiently introduces you to the villains, the worlds, and even sets up a clear goal: get rid of the tadpole. And the best part? IT DOESNT LAST A FUCKING HOUR.
@matthewjalovick11 ай бұрын
@@randomguy6679okay? And compare BG3 to GTA3’s intro where a bridge explosion happens, cops are killed, and you steal a car to escape from the scene of the crime.
@randomguy667911 ай бұрын
@@matthewjalovick What’s your point?
@matthewjalovick11 ай бұрын
@@randomguy6679 what was your point?
@redlunatic222411 ай бұрын
I feel like the problem comes from needing to make a tutorial sequence. They need to find a way to introduce all the systems without being too handholdy. Not an easy task, but a very necessary one.
@christopherlyndsay861111 ай бұрын
That’s what optional tutorials are for though
@redlunatic222411 ай бұрын
@christopherlyndsay8611 Not really. This may make things easier on a replay, but the first time around, you either go for it and then it is still part of your first impressions, or you skip it and your experience gets clouded because you're missing information.
@christopherlyndsay861111 ай бұрын
@@redlunatic2224 then if people don’t do the tutorial and don’t get how the game works, they should be given the option to return to it. Games like AC6 have options such as replayable training missions to allow this, it’s not difficult to implement.
@NewMateo11 ай бұрын
@@christopherlyndsay8611using a linear combat focused arcade game is nothing compared to an rpg.
@redlunatic222411 ай бұрын
@@christopherlyndsay8611 AC6 also has a first mission with tutorial pop-ups and a boss that tests you to make sure you understood the assignment. It's probably one of the least optional tutorials I've seen in a while.
@UberManlyPirate11 ай бұрын
Fallout 3 intro was incredibly immersive for its time .
@TheRealFlurrin11 ай бұрын
I'm feeling this way about Breath of the Wild vs. Tears of the Kingdom currently. With the tedious controls and my joycon drift just getting worse, the floating islands feel much, much more railroaded and limited compared to the Plateau.
@jfbarabe678511 ай бұрын
Sky islands is a pain in the ass
@tjhedgescout305211 ай бұрын
I didn't mind Fallout 3's intro, but i do agree that is is very lengthy and there should be an option to skip to be 19 or going outside the vault. 4's intro was too short so you basically had little to no time to bond with spouse and shaun so some of us can't really care due to having so minimal time Yeah i think New Vegas is that perfect medium, players can decide how long they want the intro to be by staying in goodsprings, or just up and leaving.
@cavemancarlos11 ай бұрын
I really like the intros, the first time I go through it
@WritingOnGames11 ай бұрын
That's fair!
@arenkai11 ай бұрын
In Baldur's Gate 3, I've created my character, then the next 30min after that I met intriguing characters on a big-ass squid-ship in the middle of a demon-war with dragons flying around. Oh, also there's a worm squirming in my brain apparently. The best intro 3h30min I've had in a long time !
@ruckly124111 ай бұрын
Good video, but I'm going to push back against this. I think you are underestimating what these intros are trying to do and, more importantly, who they are for. They're there to establish the setting, the tone and kickstart the narrative, yes, but more than anything else, they are tutorials for someone new to this style of game, or games generally. Fallout: New Vegas and Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind, as the comments have brought up, aren't aimed at a wide audience. New Vegas can get away with a concentrated intro because anyone buying a stand-alone expansion has likely already played the base game. Morrowind was from a time when these complex, open-world cRPGs were still pretty niche. It was built for PC and targeting fans of those kinds of games that aren't overwhelmed by that degree of freedom that intro offered. Oblivion was the first Bethesda game designed from the ground up for a console release with a blockbuster marketing budget. They expected to get first time players who didn't really understand what the game was trying to do. I'm talking the people that need the "L-stick to move" tutorials. Hence, 45 minutes of killing rats in a cage before you are let off the leash. I see people calling this a lack of confidence, or not trusting the player, but you need to understand that a lot of time/money is put into playtesting every part of these games. Bethesda and Microsoft put this game in front of dozens, if not hundreds, of "never played a game before" people and found the friction points that caused them to put the game down forever. These intros are to smooth over those friction points, getting them to play long enough to get hooked. So when the player is finally let go, they can enjoy their next 40-60-120 hours with the game. Yes, this is annoying for established players. This drags down a second playthrough. But you are complaining about 45 minutes, approximately 1% of your total playtime. The most important 1%, yes. But for the new players, who saw the multi-million dollar ad campaign and just paid $70, Bethesda wants to make sure that 45 minutes isn't 100% of their total playtime. They want them to understand how to play so they can get to the big reveal moment, play for 20+ hours, buy the DLC and recommend it to their friends. Nintendo has a similar approach with Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom. You could counter that BotW especially give you freedom as soon as you exit the cave, but it's an illusion. You may be off the leash, you're still in a tiny playpen. The Great Plateau and the Great Sky Island are doing the exact same thing that Bethesda is. Nintendo is just better at it. And veteran gamers still complain about being stuck in those tutorial areas. Maybe a "Quickstart" option help, like the inevitable "skip intro" mods. But I'd bet they are afraid inexperienced players would click the option, get frustrated and never touch it again. And remember, they playtest the hell out of big budget titles. That kind of thing definitely happens.
@nomercy898911 ай бұрын
Call me weird but I like the intros in Bethesda games. The being a child and growing up in Fallout 3 thing was pretty amazing to me back in 2008. I know it's cool and all these days to complain about anything and everything but back in the 2000s when I started playing games I accepted games as they were. I didn't cry about the nightmare levels in Max Payne. To me it was a part of the game. I didn't enjoy them back then but I didn't focus on being miserable about it. Or when Lords of Shadows 2 came out in 2014 everyone was crying about the 30 second rat sequences but I didn't mind them.
@shakaj152511 ай бұрын
Lots of crying nowadays i agree, Fallout 3 intro was amazing to me.
@e2rqey11 ай бұрын
Agreed.
@samuel.jpg.1080p11 ай бұрын
lots of people always complain about stuff nowadays
@FaithfulFumoFan2311 ай бұрын
They need to listen to fans. "Alternative Start" is like the #1 downloaded mod for all their games. How hard is it to make the intro a cutscene movie then just plop the player into a situation where they can build their character and start the game how they want to? Or at least provide a small preset number of starts based on something like a starting class or which perks you pick when creating your char?
@zakblue11 ай бұрын
It's funny. All of those games with the limited intro sequences (skyrim, fallout3, oblivion) were ones that I played for massive hours vs other games that let you loose right out of the gate. I could never really get into Fallout New Vegas or even Elden Ring. Maybe it isn't immediately apparent but having that kind of limitation and constriction could help a player stick with the game for the long term. I definitely said to myself 'man this suucks' during the Starfield intro but after a few hours i'd forgotten about it. What I kind of knew was coming in the rest of the game (massive open world and free choices) drew me to stick with it. WoW retail used to have this kind of constricting first levels, and that I think served the addiction. 'Just get this and this done then eventually you can do this'. Meanwhile you've spent a whole day doing the menial early tasks in the game because you know what's coming later. Thanks for the vid, thought provoking.
@zakblue11 ай бұрын
@@Entropic_Meat_Machine Yeah F3 I think they nailed it. I remember that feeling of getting out of the vault for the first time. Makes me want to replay it. I'll have to give NV another look and stick with it more than just a couple hrs.
@alexandernilssonmusic11 ай бұрын
I think the idea why Bethesda's doing this is because of contrast. Start with a small and limiting space where they create a feeling in the player they just want to get out there to explore the vast world - it's there to make this feeling grow so that it's bursting at the seems when the intro is over. In Starfield I think they failed for the most part to instill this feeling, but it has worked in the past; when I think back on playing Skyrim and Fallout 3/4 the intros really made the entrance into the larger world so much greater than if they hade just dropped me into it from the get-go.
@AB-sw4kb11 ай бұрын
It's also to get the player to learn mechanics.
@HedonisticPickle11 ай бұрын
It’s all about contrast, awe and learning. They need a linear space to teach you the basic functions before slapping you with the awe of freedom.
@WritingOnGames11 ай бұрын
As I mention with Fallout New Vegas later in the video... I just don't think that's true with these games.
@n_nolace11 ай бұрын
i absolutely agree with this Analysis; i would however humbly like to add on that, to my mind, the best Intro in a Bethesda Game (even better than New Vegas, and i do not say that Lightly) is to be found in Morrowind. regardless of the quality of the rest of the Game, the Intro is incredibly well paced and perfectly written for a Freeform RPG. you wake from a Prophetic Dream, go thru a quick Character Creation Session, and BANG you're in the World without a Leash. want to stay in the Starting Village of Seyda Neen to do some quests? you may! want to catch the Silt Strider Bus straight to the Main Quest in Balmora? go right ahead! want to wander North or East? the road paths ever onward. it's honestly incredible to me how it's the only Elder Scrolls Game like this - every other one has you start in some monotonous Dungeon. you'd think after Morrowind's surprise critical Acclaim and (relatively) mainstream Success for the Time, that Bethesda would have learned this Lesson, but they seem more and more interested in making Theme Parks than compelling Worlds. a shame
@TheLingo5611 ай бұрын
It's so weird how many of the modern issues they have with their main quest and overall game structure weren't problems at all in Morrowind.
@itsaUSBline11 ай бұрын
I mean that's exactly how it is in New Vegas too. You can just leave Goodsprings without doing any quests there if you want. Hell, you don't have to do any of the quests on the way to Vegas if you don't want to.
@n_nolace11 ай бұрын
@@itsaUSBline true, i wasn't saying New Vegas's Intro is bad by any means! i just think that Morrowind is a lot more easily forgotten, and wanted to offer it as another example of an Intro Done Right in a Bethesda-Style Game
@phylippezimmermannpaquin206211 ай бұрын
I always felt that these intros werent meant to get you immersed in the world before getting out in the world but we could argue it doesnt need to take so long
@FantasticBlueGirl11 ай бұрын
The weird thing about these tutorials is that they seem to be trying to teach you so much but for most players teach nothing at all. Like, I know pick up/interact is going to be one of two buttons, I know I’m going to press in a stick to run, I know I’m going to use the triggers to aim and shoot, and most experienced gamers will also know those things. All the stuff I actually needed help learning in Starfield I had to go into the help menu for. For a game with so many systems, Starfield really goes out of its way to show off the most common of its mechanics.
@gniludio11 ай бұрын
Bethesda: Why is nobody using our menus? Fans: They are garbage and modding is possible. Bethesda: What do you want then? Fans: Intuitive Menus. Bethesda: MORE WORSE MENUS IN STARFIELD.
@xeroeddie11 ай бұрын
I might agree with you on repeated playthroughs, but the intro in Skyrim and to a lesser extend F4 are great to set the stage for what kind of world you're stepping into. The sense of claustrophobia is a contrast to the feeling of freedom when you do leave the cave or vault.
@Supadrumma44111 ай бұрын
The super long intro's in videogames now is simply to eat up as much time into the steam 2hour refund limit as possible. Nothing more, nothing less. The first 2 hours of Forspoken are spent in New York.
@parkyercarcass10 ай бұрын
tried it last night. i made it like an hour in. i play games slowly, so what takes one person 5 minutes i may take 15 just lingering and exploring and poking around. but regardless, this intro was so damn boring. not to mention how immersion-breaking it was that Lin didn't react to me shooting her with the laser cutter. like not even a "hey!" or a "good thing these suits have special laser cutter protection or that would have hurt" or something. nope. she just stood there staring at me. in 2023. when i shot her with a laser. but i digress. in discussing it with my housemates, i came up with the idea that what the intro should have been was: roughly 30 seconds to a minute of cutscene setting up the fact that the Player is in some sort of menial job (maybe curated by a dozen or starting locations/jobs based on background). show the passing of time that the Player does the same thing over and over every day. then the cutscene ends and the Player wakes up and is immediately playable. the Player can immediately step out into the world if they want, or they can stick around and just work in the area they spawned. maybe there's two VERY SMALL story hooks like "we need [job] to be done well for the next few days because the boss is coming" or "we need to take a quick trip into town to grab [item]". let the Player exist in this space for a few in-game days. let them just be in the world like any other game. but with no main quest line. no real hook. no story. just vibes. then, only after like a week in game/first level up/certain location triggers/etc does the main quest line begin and we get that annoying ass slow walk and talk/infodump. let the Player taste the freedom of the game and then introduce the rails at a later time. don't just immediately put them on rails from minute one. i really hope the conversation about how bad Starfield's intro was helps shake Bethesda up to doing something differently for ES6 and the future. there's a reason that one of the most popular mods for each Bethesda game are the "skip intro" mods. anyway. now that i've written an essay, i'll watch the video lmao.
@ellemiller723711 ай бұрын
It starts slow and small and then expands and expands and expands and expands and I kinda dig it, but the first hour def is not the best
@GrimmNola11 ай бұрын
New Vegas *Obsidian Cough* doesn't have the railroad problem if you don't count the way they leveled the roads to New Vegas
@hk0766611 ай бұрын
This has always been a frustrating characteristic of bethesda games. There's been too many times where I wanted to pick the game back up and start over again after not playing it for a while but I don't because the first hour or so feels too much like a chore. I'd rather just do a chore in real life.
@The-antagonistDe11 ай бұрын
I'd argue that Starfield's intro is a way to fast "from zero to hero" beginning: it costs almost less than 30 minutes from digging and touching a strange artifact, becoming the special guy, getting your space ship for free, busting out a few pirate ships and their boss till finally you are greeted with "Welcome to Constellation". In other words: the game forces you to feel special or great - but I as the player don't buy it.
@metrazol11 ай бұрын
Starfield is baffling to me. It feels like they wanted to do something new and just... couldn't? The weight of old games pulls the team down to do the same thing. Why is there so much junk? Notepads and pens and knickknacks that don't matter, while my follower yells at me all the dang time. They have the team, Bethesda should try doing something new. And not in Gamebryo. It will never have good lighting.
@E107J11 ай бұрын
Starfields opening sequence is legitimately one of the worst I've seen. It is truly awful. Even though Skyrim and Fallout 4 had similar issues, as described in this video, at least in Skyrim we learn that there is a civil war, a rebel leader who has been captured and is ready to be executed, and the execution is interrupted by a giant dragon attacking. It's linear but there is some spectacle. In Fallout 4 we see nukes dropping and watch our spouse be murdered and our son taken away. While it's linear and slow, it has a fun plot hook and is visually interesting. I actually quite like Fallout 3's, because it establishes a narrative of having grown up in a claustrophobic, confined environment and then having a big "wow" moment when the vault is opened and you step into the world for the first time, that perfectly frames the exploration and freedom to come. though I understand the argument that prioritizing narrative delivery over selling the core appeal of the gameplay might not be the best choice. I do believe it's a big part of why that vault opening sequence is so iconic, though. Starfields presents us with no intriguing details about the conflicts of the setting, no narrative hook, no visual spectacle, and is just...boring. The planet is all brown, one of the ugliest in the galaxy, the vision the artefact gives you is some pretty colours which doesn't seem to have any deeper meaning (Mass Effect 1 did this exact intro much better 16 years ago). Even the character create screen is clinical white with no interesting visuals or music. The enemies are just generic pirates in space suits. It's honestly one of the most boring introductions to a game I've ever seen.
@Aurora_Ultima10 ай бұрын
'We have a thousand planets!' Cool, so like, let us start on any of them. Fuck radiant quests, I want radiant intros. Randomly assign me a cot, a hut, & a backstory, give my family or SO a few lines, show off a cute pet, then blow it all to hell. Cinematic intros that are good are entertaining exactly one time, and if they spent millions on this shit they flushed it all.
@perpetualgrimace11 ай бұрын
I don't typically care much about story in games, but Fallout 4's intro had me hooked. Set the stage and didn't feel overly long to me.
@TheLingo5611 ай бұрын
I disagree personally, I wanted to get into the meat of the game as quickly as possible and the intro just gets in the way for 20-30 minutes if you aren't interested in the main plot.
@perpetualgrimace11 ай бұрын
@@TheLingo56 I typically agree with you
@Whawpenshaw11 ай бұрын
It really feels like Bethesda just IGNORES the entire game industry and what their competition is doing when it comes to small design choices. And like, I'm enjoying the game a lot, but it feels like my dream game from the early 2010's.
@ClarkKentai11 ай бұрын
Bethesda RPG's could stand to learn from the intro of Kingdom Come Deliverance. You can very easily have a long intro, just make it a microcosm of the full game.
@DreBourbeau10 ай бұрын
regarding Fallout 3, surely any introduction that features Liam Neeson saying "come to daddy" can't be all bad, right?
@dewainearfalas11 ай бұрын
I disagree. Long intros let me get used to my character, I am learning more about the world, the history, and I have a chance to get into my character. Starfield has the worst Bethesda intro, on this we can agree but for completely different reasons. People, and you, are saying the intro was so slow and here I am, finding the intro too fast and throwing action upon me too soon. It was so fast and so abrupt I couldn't get over why the hell that guy just gave me his ship. So guys in red suits attacked and even before I discovered how to crouch or change weapons the combat ended on its own. I was just standing there, watching this insanity. Then the guy just handed me his fucking spaceship! Doesn't make any sense! Why can't we go together and he can fill me in along the road because I am clueless! Who am I? Where am I? What is happening? No, we don't have time for any kind of explanation. We need action! I just reached the first city, talked to that woman, gave the artefact and had ZERO reason and motivation to do anything with the main story because the game never cared to tell me what is this about. Why would I ever want to do the main quest? There is no hook because there is no really meaningful intro. I already have a ship, I can just turn around and fly away. So why wouldn't I? I lost all interest. Hell, I didn't build any interest in the first place, I never got the time to do that, everything happened too fast. I wish we spent an hour with long conversations and those boring(!) walk and talk sequences before jumping into action or at least a codex to read and understand the worldbuilding. This is supposed to be an RPG but I can't roleplay in a world I know nothing about with a character I know nothing about.
@thegreenmage695611 ай бұрын
In order of Goodness: - Skyrim’s intro 👌 - Fallout 4’s intro 👍 - Starfield… 😒
@OmiP4211 ай бұрын
I'm curious; what's your take on games like The Witcher 3 and Horizon Zero Dawn where you're plunked into a small, starter world, free to do as you please, and then let loose after a couple of hours?
@RainbowMan940710 ай бұрын
Maybe Bethesda should try open world Zelda's approach (start in a small chunk of the open world, before gaining access to everything else). Interesting video!
@OSW11 ай бұрын
It sounds like Bethesda are slowly dropping you into the world. Here's movement, here's combat, here's space exploration. It's not a 90 minute movie, you could sink hundreds of hours into it. An hour (in a game you've already paid for!) is a drop in the pond. I like how u acknowledged this point and offered examples of how to improve. Great vid!
@DevanConrad11 ай бұрын
This is the result of playtesting thinking information overload will make people not like the game. Strange doctrines around making every game handhold children and first time gamers instead of just letting you play.
@alexelectricx11 ай бұрын
Every time I tune into a Starfield stream they are in a dialog box. I was thinking that was all this game has to offer lol.
@gangliaghost872011 ай бұрын
There's devs that learn from critique and mistakes and theres devs that don't. And I feel like that's more of a metric on how I judge dev teams with a robust history than on their individual games.
@_nukeohio11 ай бұрын
You didn't bring up the fact that the cave the artifact is in might as well have a yellow brick road that leads you directly to the cave it's in, with a giant glowing Las Vegas style arrow sign pointing into the cave that says "Super important story artifact here", but somehow you're the first person to find it. What a joke!
@UnreasonableOpinions11 ай бұрын
It speaks to how deeply insular Bethesda's dev teams are, that after literal decades of people instantly modding out their prolonged and weak intros to vast popularity, they still flatly refuse to understand that people don't find them remotely engaging. Even if you simply MUST have your weirdo 'immersive' tutorial, make it OPTIONAL!
@Kinna3911 ай бұрын
agree to disagree... I've always liked the way the Fallout games started. The claustrophobic monotony in Fallout 3 before escaping the vault, and the calm before the storm followed by the panic getting to the vault in Fallout 4. Helps the player very briefly get in the shoes of the protagonist whilst learning some of the games systems (which can be overwhelming).
@WritingOnGames11 ай бұрын
As I said in the video/to other commenters, I'd argue New Vegas proves that you don't need the kinds of lengthy, restrictive sequences found in the Bethesda titles in order to get a feel for the character/atmosphere, but I get where you're coming from. There will obviously be people with whom these intros resonate.
@Kinna3911 ай бұрын
@@WritingOnGames Yeah for sure. I found Skyrim, F4 and Starfield all reined in the length compared to what was quite long in F3. Starfield did have the additional issue of having to teach people the flying mechanics as well so there's still plenty of learning to do after that initial opening sequence. I dunno - I didn't mind it but each to their own.
@Skip-Towne11 ай бұрын
These sorts of intros are completely focused on a first time player, and that player doing one playthrough. Bethesda's intros in particular revolve around the assumption you'll never play the game again, instead doing everything on one save file. If you only play the game once, or maybe once every few years, then these intros can be very enjoyable. I myself enjoy the fallout 3 intro - but after seeing it more than once it gets very tiring! Sad to see they've gone for the extended route again, these sorts of games are perfect for giving us the option of following the intro or not. (I can't remember which ones specifically off the top of my head, but I recall playing games that basically say "do you need to be shown what to do?" and the player can say no - resulting in letting you either skip the tutorial or blaze through it much quicker.)
@LuccasFranklinMartins11 ай бұрын
I mostly agree in the case of oblivion, but regarding skyrim and FO3, I really like those slow beginnings. Not knowing why I'm gonna be killed and being saved due to a dragon ex machina in skyrim was AWESOME the first time. Fallout 3 was my first fallout and I remember being amazed that the game started with my BIRTH. Those first 40 minutes in the vault managed to convey a naiveté to its inhabitants, that's in SUCH contrast to the real world, due to them being born there (even the bullies are toothless), that getting out and seeing true gangs of vampires, fascists and raiders gave me quite a shock. There's a lot to be said regarding the effect of those beginnings on replays, though. There should be an option to skip those, even if context would be lost, focusing on people that have already played through it. As for new vegas, as much as I love the game, it doesn't need to convey that much "falloutness" as 3 does. No talk of vaults, experiments, water shortage, enclaves, nuclear war backstory... You're a dude that's been left for dead and now you want revenge. By the way, this is a post apocalyptic world. That needs way less context, which lends itself to a quicker start.
@joringedamke559711 ай бұрын
Also, FO3 has Liam Neeson as your father. Just sayin'.
@tygergamer11 ай бұрын
It's funny how BGS's last game Fallout 76 had on of the shortest intros.
@WritingOnGames11 ай бұрын
You know, I was thinking about that while writing the piece but I couldn't bring myself to load that game up again because its loop was such a bummer at launch. You're right though, without the character-specific context you are pretty quickly thrown into the open world!
@Phantomvoice9511 ай бұрын
See, I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I think fallout 3 has the perfect intro of all Bethesda games. They are tutorials for most of the systems, set up your character building reasonably well, show you dialog and speech checks, and when escaping it becomes your first dungeon. Plus you have some interesting choices that have some impact in it. But I understand the issue that the video is pointing out
@chstens11 ай бұрын
Morrowind's intro, like New Vegas, got it right. Make your character, spend 5 minutes on basic tutorialising, and you're done.
@SSSauceyBuns11 ай бұрын
Spot on on Bethesda intros having unskippable padding in their intros. But the secondary complaint about Bethesda intros is that they force you into the main quest, and it becomes very hard to ignore when you are trying to explore and get lost in the world. Oblivion's main quest is to prevent the literal invasion of hell, FO4's main quest is to rescue your kidnapped son, etc. And yet, we as players ignore that and go explore instead, which doesnt make sense in character. At least Morrowind set you on the path for the main quest, but no real world-ending stakes were set at the intro.
@tonzillaye11 ай бұрын
I think Hbomberguy said it best with his New Vegas video where he shows that the intro to fallout 2/3/4 all have mods to skip the intro and theyre some of the most popular mods. Like how do you not see the problem.
@PlebNC11 ай бұрын
They constraint to contrast with the freedom of the rest of the game. Plus providing a focused narrative and tutorial introduction.
@WritingOnGames11 ай бұрын
6:15
@PlebNC11 ай бұрын
@@WritingOnGames I'm aware. I think alot of the complaints about RPG intros is a dissonance between players who want to get stuck into the game immediately and thus the Doc Mitchell's House approach is preferred and those who want a longer narrative burn before being released into the world which favours the Vault 101 approach. Bethesda ultimately can't win because it's either abruptly short to the point of pointlessness but you get to the core gameplay fast or a slow slog of narrative content blocking access to the core gameplay but the story told might be interesting. I tend to like both depending on the RPG in question. I love replaying Fallout 3's Vault 101 intro because it does a great job of distilling a connection to the Vault so when the call to action occurs you care on some level about the people involved while immersively tutorialising various gameplay systems. I like Fallout NV's Doc Mitchell intro because it keeps the focus on finding Benny and makes the character creation as brisk or not as the player wants. Fallout 4 gave us a glimpse of pre-war America to contrast with its destroyed state later on and makes up for its dull gameplay by being very short. I do wish there was a bit more multiple paths in these intros though to improve replayability like Cyberpunk 2077's lifepath intros that vary significantly from each other or Far Cry 2's hotel firefight where the direction you leave the hotel determines which location you start from, which faction you initially take jobs from and which variant of the initial tutorial mission you get.
@OneColdMonkey11 ай бұрын
Bethesda just has to do one thing to make me happy. NEW GAME- SKIP INTRO. I don't mind the slow-roll intro the first time. Just for the love of GOD let me skip it in the future!
@Raijuri11 ай бұрын
I don't get this. Starfield's intro is miles better and faster than Skyrim, Oblivion and F4 (I don't really remember much of F3 and NV, I admit). It's honestly a breath of fresh air in comparison to past Bethesda intros, and the moment you get the ship you can absolutely go off on your own. If the take is just 'Bethesda intros are typically bad' then I guess I agree, but if WiG is trying to say that Starfield's intro is just as bad as Skyrim or F4, then I can't help but disagree immensely.
@SocksFCGameArchives9 ай бұрын
The Starfield intro wouldn't be so bad if the majority of the game wasn't like the intro
@selimword2511 ай бұрын
You answered your own question. It’s supposed to be a contrast.
@WritingOnGames11 ай бұрын
I also said that the sequence in question mechanically boring, and later on I talk about how New Vegas managed the same thing in a fraction of the time.
@KlausWulfenbach11 ай бұрын
Hence all the mods that replace and expand the intros of Bethesda games. Live Another Life (and other similar mods) is the backbone of Skyrim replay-ability.
@zeno665411 ай бұрын
To everyone who bought this game full price and review it so I won’t have to thank you I will save my money
@purefoldnz307011 ай бұрын
The intro really hurts the game, its really boring and bland compared to their other titles. Yes, you are supposed to be in a small place so you can be overwhelmed by the open world when you finally emerge but they could have done this better by being on a small ship that crash lands on a planet and you have to survive and find a new ship, instead you start off shooting rocks!
@icntsywhtiwnt211 ай бұрын
Starfield has a "first 8 hours" problem. It finally started clicking and I do think it's a pretty awesome game after the hump but man, for the first several hours I just had to keep reminding myself it's Bethesda, they know what they're doing (in their own way).
@RubyGalaxyYT11 ай бұрын
I'm alot more paitent than others when it comes to slow intros in games, as I can accept upfront that the what I'm watching is set up, stakes, themes and character establishing to get me and others on to the level that the story is about. Part of what makes or breaks a game for me is how the protagonist is handled. I'm just very tired of the silent self insert projection avatars in general. I like Fallout 4 the most out of Bethesda's line up as we play as a CHARACTER and not an avatar who has no investment or ties in the world that we play in. Nate/Nora has a goal and story that players can decide how it ends, a bittersweet reunion and goodbye or a greek tradedy in a trolly car situation with the destruction of all but one of the major factions. You can argue that their could have been more added to Nate/Nora's story and I would agree, I would love a more stronger Character driven narrative for Fallout 4 as what we have is pretty good, but as a creative I can see where the improvements can be made, a found family dynamic with the companions and settlers of Sanctuary, discussions of what to do on the major descisions on what to do, more chances to let Nate/Nora to voice thier opinion and views on things. I would argue that it's the characters that makes the settings interesting. Character driven stories are stronger as there is an intentional arc and themes that the characters go through and explore. The bare minimum in that instance is to remember that the characters have more going on about them than the imediate plot, they can banter about other things, talk about thier points about the news etc. At the centre of this is the main protagonist / main cast of characters. In a cast, if one character is flat then it's a minor if neutral flaw, if it's a silent protagonist however the game really has to pick up the slack to make me want to engage in the game and story as the characters and narritive have to awkwardly navigate around the fact that one of the major actors is silent and has no input, no banter or chemisty with the rest of the cast, nothing other than hitting things with a big stick all because we have prioritised a misunderstood view of player immersion over good story and character writing and continue to drag the relic of silent avatars with us.
@Numek132411 ай бұрын
Well, I am one of the people who didn't enjoy Fallout 4 due to its voiced protagonists and don't mind having a silent self-insert as a protagonist if it fits the story being told. From your comment, I would think rather than the silent self-insert protagonist being the main issue, it seems more that the lack of presence in the world they're meant to interact and influence seems to be the more concerning issue. As that would be what seems to take away from the personal connection one could have if that were to limit one's ability to immerse themselves into that world and its narrative. Just my thoughts on your comment.
@In.New.York.I.Milly.Rock.11 ай бұрын
What's the point of voicing a character if the writing is as atrocious as Fallout 4
@RubyGalaxyYT11 ай бұрын
@@Numek1324 gonna meditate and come back to this later
@Numek132411 ай бұрын
@@RubyGalaxyYT Fair enough
@ghost548711 ай бұрын
The problem i find with this games intro vs other bethesda titles is that this one doesnt actually get you hooked into a story or the world. Its an extremely boring and bland intro.
@tommc2511 ай бұрын
I started the video thinking "Those intros are not that bad, he must be exagerating a bit" but I was swayed by the end. The thing is I don't think you can get the usual bethesda freedom in an intro, you need the intro on rails for context and the relieve of freedom that comes after. Could the intros be better? absolutely and they should be. But I don't think fixing them is as easy as pointing it out
@CageyVideos11 ай бұрын
2:39 How dare you make an exact replica of me and put it in the game.
@haydentravis334811 ай бұрын
There are bugs in Morrowind that are the same in Starfield.
@streven133111 ай бұрын
The opening was weak in Starfield for me but at 30 hours in I'm so fully hooked I don't care anymore. Agree though, Starfield opening was not great.
@irecordwithaphone185611 ай бұрын
Yeah it's kind of like the writing everywhere else is so solid (especially the faction questlines dear god) that you stop caring
@levovit11 ай бұрын
I don't necessarily agree that a linear start without freedom is the main issue, or even a problem at all. Take, for instance, BOTW or TOTK. In both games, players have limited freedom initially - no runes, no paragliders, etc. Yet, Zelda's beginning is widely regarded as one of the best gaming experiences. Therefore, I believe your analysis might be overly critical in emphasizing the lack of freedom. In my opinion, the primary issue with Starfield's start isn't the absence of choices; it's simply that it's incredibly dull.
@WritingOnGames11 ай бұрын
I actually originally had a section that I cut for brevity on TotK and BotW. Said that it wasn't just a Bethesda problem, because the walk and talk sections opening up TotK felt like such a dampener on my enthusiasm compared to how quickly BotW got you out and about exploring the world.
@thewewguy8t8811 ай бұрын
It is true the intros don't do the best job of setting the tone for what the game can be. And it's weird as much as I think new vegas ends up feeling like a bland wasteland that after 30 hours I have barely any interest in exploring( as it's the one game where I had to use fast travel to advance because of how boring the world was) the game does allow you more freedom from the start and even overall. Granted I you do have to figure that out on your own like I had no idea I could team up with the powderkegs to take over good springs until I looked it up lol for example.
@Dark_Jaguar11 ай бұрын
Heck, I'll defend Fallout 3 AND it's intro often, but there's no getting around the fact that players felt the need to mod out it's intro just to get into the real game faster. As much as I enjoy the whole "Dr. Quest" vibe it had going, it could have been far more efficient.
@scottland90611 ай бұрын
SPOILERS: Well, once you start new game + you don't have to replay the intro... at least not until you make a new character. I think this was done intentionally to avoid the feeling of having to sit thru the entire opening sequence in these games because Bethesda knows its players play their games for years and years.