"and mortarion too. and he had to breathe fart smells while he did it. and conrad had actually zero help at all in conquering his homeworld, not even starving slaves. while being arguably more damaged psychologically than you were when you fought your masters."

I take Angrons side on this debate. Yes, while Guilliman was right about Angron being stuck in the past, Guilliman has no place to lecture Angron at all. So yes, fuck Erebus

Yeah it's all erebus fault

I mean telling someone to just get over the past is like telling an amputee to just get over there disability. Even if they try good luck trying to have a normal life with a missing arm or leg. Cause every moment is going to be a constant reminder of what you lost. You cant just "look forward and leave the past" also by blue berries own logic he should just stop hating his traitor brothers and just look ahead

Guilliman’s idea of honor and glory come’s from his actions and what benefit it brings to the imperium and mankind as a whole. While Angron’s comes from mindless butchery of those he sees unfit. Guilliman seeks to further humanity to the path of greatness. And his abilities speak for themselves. He is not “arrogant” or “pompous”(he is pompous as in “solemn/noble” “ which is a positive thing)… nor is he “privileged”. If anything Angron is the pompous and privileged one. Since he met the emperor, Angron has only cared about himself and what he wants. His self importance knows no bounds. While every other primearch was looked up to as a leader and a commander, ONLY Angron got to sit and do nothing of the sort. He butchered his sons for no reason and he wallowed in his despair his entire life. A pathetic excuse of a primearch. There’s only so much sympathy and understanding he can be given… but no. He was afforded centuries of doing whatever the fuck he wanted, while every other primearch actually did something.

@@badassgibusdifference being, the future blue boy wants is without chaos. And his brothers are an obstacle in that. Furthermore, he doesn’t hate them… he got over that. Now he just laments the situation. Yet, after all the losses and hardship he has suffered… unlike Angron, he moves forward. He does all he can to further the interest of mankind and the imperium. Most of his loyal brothers chased down their own vandetas. He was the only one to stay level headed and salvage the situation. He lost far more then Angron… afterall, Angron really didn’t care about anyone other then his band of slaves.

i mean, becoming a traitor was probably the only viable option for someone like angron, but why the fuck did he then align himself with the only option out there that is somehow worse than the imperium? like, its true that the imperium is a slave state, the emperor is the ultimate tyrant and angron had probably the rightest reasons to rebel, but to then go onto the same side as horus and to fight a war at the side of lorgar of all the people he could choose from can only be the result of a truly damaged brain.

Thank you very much! I always like seeing more of the good reasonings from the traitors in the heresy. Making that decision as tough and grey as possible is fantastic! and, my thanks for watching once again!

Big blue didn't go through half as much angron did so early in life, the eldar attack, getting enslaved, the butcher's nails, then forced to be taken away from your people.

I agree. I’d love to hear a rendition of one of Roboute and Tarasha’s conversations.

This is a great idea! I had some ideas for videos she would be in but I shall certainly add some more where she is more prominent as I do love those excerpts! My thanks for watching!

Thank you very much! That means a lot!

True, but its also true that Angron is a slave to his anger.

Is it better to be a prisoner of regret and what had already happened or is it better to move on and die a honorable death vs Chaos

He really didn’t… his shit life as a child is no excuse to be a brain dead berserk his whole life. He had 100-200 years to get over his past. He didn’t manage to do so… issue wasn’t his shitty life… Issue was him. Guilliman was righteous and honorable to most people that knew of him. Same can not be said for Angron. Those who knew of him saw him as nothing but a mindless butcher or a tool. Any semblance of reputation he had was from the fact that he was a primearch… through glories and honors won by his brothers he was held in a higher regard then he should have ever been.

To quote Kratos "be better".

​@@Channel-23sdie

That is certainly rather possible aha, I like adding the extra little visuals when I feel it would match but I have been a little rushed as of late when editing. My thanks still, for the watch and the comment!

I would love to for sure! Perhaps in the future I can delve more into audio books. My thanks for watching!

@@danielquintonvoI second this. Very immersive voice-overs.

My thanks!

Even the Emperor himself is a tool, in the Jaghatai novel there is a discussion between Jaghatai and Malcador where Malcador says "We are all Instruments" to which Jaghatai says "Except for Him" but Malcador says "Oh no, very much Him". The Emperor has sacrificed everything in order to be an instrument of our species.

This occurs prior to Angron's transformation. Guilliman steps on one of the skulls and Angron goes berserk and nearly kills him. I forget how Guilliman survives; most likely saved by his marines.

mhm, I attempted to do a sort of thematic 'middle ground' with the voice to show his switching allegiance and temptation by Lorgar and Chaos but I think I went a little far with it. Still, my thanks for watching!

​@danielquintonvo question when are you going back to vampire masquerade I know you took small break but I know you want to comeback do you have estimated date or time that you think you going to make more video on vampire masquerade?

My exact thoughts, well said!

Wrong!! The circumstances in the aftermath of the Horus Heresy tied Guilliman's hand and he was left with no other choice but to enforce the Codex!! The highlords were demanding complete dismantling and disbanding of the Adeptus Astartes and this was the compromise Guilliman made!! Without the Codex, the Imperium would have surely been plunged into another civil war. Get your facts straight.

to be fair breaking up the legions was the smartest thing to do, without the Primarchs the legions would have been far more susceptible to corruption (as we've seen with entire Chapters going renegade) now imagine what would happen once ALL the Primarchs were gone and the Legions were still around, all it would take is one Legion Master getting corrupted to start another Heresy

A leaderless imperium the codex did its good they remain standing for 10k years imagine full legions becoming corrupted post heresy era

​@@nicholasbrown668they became corrupt due to not having proper history and pointless struggle for being under powered

You are a slave to your own idea.

The emperor was a hypocritical tyrant who let an army of slaves die to slave owning overlords. He then ordered all of his forces to massacre entire civilisations and conscript millions upon millions of people into a life of slaves as soldiers. A childish temper tantrum? Your morality is fcked beyond belief if you think none of these reasons is a good one to revolt.

@gamechanger8908, Not this again. "It's not a surprise some of Roboute's brothers disliked him. Lion, Angron, Konrad, Mortarion." - I don't think their opinions of him (or anything) counts for much considering how big of a douche each of them were in their own right. "He was a privillaged one" - Not his fault that he got lucky!! Just get the hell over it. It's never about where you came from but where you choose to go after and Guilliman certainly went the right way. "with pomp second only to Fulgrim." - You must be quite the disappointment for your folks, aren't you?? Like for fucx sake, Guilliman is the most humble and kind of the primarchs, second perhaps only to Vulkan!! " Pointed out flaws and thought only through logic which made him look like he lacked sympathy" - What else he had there to say?? "when he could of given even a fraction of sympathy like talking it out with Lorgar over Monarchia" - Yeah, as if Lorgar was in any state of mind for reason at that time. He was raving mad!! Motherfuckerr first backhanded Malcador and then smacked Guilliman with his Crozius and cracked his chestplate for crying out loud!! The very fact that Guilliman didn't retaliate in kind should be enough to put to rest all your accusations, if you could leave your own preconceived notions and biases for once. Just imagine what would have happened if Lorgar had pulled that stunt against Angron or Curze or Lion or anyone except Guilliman and Vulkan (and Sanguinius). "did nothing but watch it all burn down." - Ok, what do you think Guilliman was supposed to do?? The order had come from the Big Guy himself!! There was practically nothing Guilliman could do at that point. And we find out latter Guilliman's silence was actually the result of his shame rather than some sense false indifference and secret joy!! Guilliman was scarred almost as deeply as was Lorgar.

​@@anirecapped.quote from Guiliman: "Ours is the better way" Guiliman was a very humanitarian primarch, but he was confident to the point of arrogance, much like Magnus. Plus, the fact that his mistakea had reasons makes them no less of mistakes. Angron joining Horus, Magnus breaking the edict of Nikea, Dorn accepting the iron cage, Lion exiling Luther, Russ sparing Horus, all of these were done for good reasons and we dont excuse those, do we now

@@tomasmisek5598 Again, the context matters!! Here's the full quote - "“To plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things have long been misnamed empire. OURS IS THE BETTER WAY; after we conquer, we shall rebuild, after we destroy, we will create order. Where once was ruin and slavery, we shall bring civilisation and the Imperial Truth. To those who oppose this great ideal, we bring the peace of a swift ending.’ - Roboute Guilliman, From The Horus Heresy Book III Extermination Not so arrogant and snobbish after all, huh??

​​@@anirecapped.Guilliman wasn't really humble when you think about it, he was all about the appearances of his Legion which is why he methodically forged his Legion into basically the exact opposite of what the Emperor wanted. he was and is an Empire builder also your qoute DOES show how Guilliman is arrogant as is the Imperial Truth, there was no other way only His way no negotiation no assimilation of culture, only the Truth

@@nicholasbrown668 Well, Guiliboy was humble enough to admit to his mistakes and promptly changed his ways whenever one could show him that whatever he was doing was objectively wrong............be it a primarch or a mortal, which is unthinkable for any other primarch bar Vulkan perhaps. The man literally thinks to himself "what my father or mother would do" every time he finds himself in a tough spot and feels lost. He was humble enough to politely ask Calgar for his permission before taking over the helm of battle for Macragge once he had woke up from his slumber. He was humble enough to kneel before the Space Wolves!! Can you imagine that - a primarch kneeling before astartes, of other chapters no less??!! If anything, Gorillaman was perhaps a bit too humble and tried too hard to curb his ego and pride, so much so that when they first met, Corax thought Guilliman was trying to show off how humble he was!! But we readers know that wasn't the case. Now, if these do not convince you of GMan's humble nature, not even by 40k standards, then I'm afraid that you have a completely different definition of that word than I.