Beyond Materialism: The Matter With Things

Beyond Materialism: The Matter With Things | with Dr. Iain McGilchrist

Рет қаралды 41,857

Күн бұрын

In this long-awaited discussion with Dr. Iain McGilchrist I ask him several questions about his work. We discuss the medieval worldview, the Renaissance, participation and transformation, and what he thinks is the way forward and the role of religion. We also talk about the processual aspect of creation, the role of the body in Christianity and the restorative magic of attending. Enjoy.
Dr. McGilchrist’s books:
- The Matter With Things: Our Brains, Our Delusions and the Unmaking of the World: www.amazon.com/Matter-Things-...
- The Master and His Emissary: The Divided Brain and the Making of the Western World: www.amazon.com/Master-His-Emi...
=========================
Timestamps:
00:00:00 - Coming up next...
00:00:57 - Intro music
00:01:23 - Introduction
00:02:27 - Dr. Mcgilchrist's work
00:05:07 - Context and analogy
00:08:00 - The obsession with artificial intelligence
00:09:22 - Understanding the medieval vision
00:19:25 - The Western medieval spirit
00:20:09 - The Renaissance and participation
00:22:41 - Participation and transformation
00:25:51 - Parts and wholes
00:27:41 - What's the way forward?
00:33:37 - Imitation vs virtue, religious vs irreligious
00:37:39 - Plato and the body in Christianity
00:42:53 - Panentheism and the apophatic vision
00:46:36 - Science and its betrayal
00:48:10 - Physicists in the 20th century
00:50:26 - Procreation and the process of creation
00:54:44 - What advice would you give?
00:58:20 - The magic of attending
=========================
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- The Language of Creation (Matthieu Pageau): www.amazon.com/Language-Creat...
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My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.
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Пікірлер: 182

@thegoldenthread Жыл бұрын

This was up there with the Vervaeke conversations in terms of facilitating a bridge between the grammar of Orthodoxy and more contemporary (and to me, relatable) manners of understanding the world. It was a physical relief at times to hear how Jonathan took something McGilchrist said and seamlessly connected it to the Orthodox understanding without hesitation. A series of little bridges over stumbling blocks.

@someotherguy43 Жыл бұрын

Perfectly said.

@timothydeneffe249 Жыл бұрын

Agreed

@sarahbefrank.3364 Жыл бұрын

Nice. Agreed.

@HCh-bj9ox Жыл бұрын

I’m overwhelmed with a deep sense of gratitude every time I hear a conversation with Dr Iain. Thank you both.

@alrahn Жыл бұрын

Best convo with McGilchrist I’ve seen

@williamkoscielniak7871 Жыл бұрын

Ian McGilchrist has become my favorite living philosopher along with Ken Wilber. Scientific Materialism is collapsing and thank God for that! I just pray it doesn't take the whole world with it on its way to ruin.

@anhumblemessengerofthelawo3858 2 ай бұрын

I am here to shout from the mountain top: _Jacob Klein!_

@Joeonline26 Жыл бұрын

One of those cross overs I've been hoping would happen for a while! Thanks Jonathan and Iain

@ethanb2554 Жыл бұрын

Same here... What did you think? A little underwhelming I think, took till about the last 15 mins to get good.

@michaelnawrot9105 Жыл бұрын

@@ethanb2554 seems like they needed to get a feel for each other. I hope they talk more.

@MoreChrist Жыл бұрын

This is great! Jonathan helped me see that the focus on our experience (phenomenology) is actually even more embodied, more incarnate, than referring to left and right hemispheres. As useful as those metaphors and analogies are. It's also about how we experience the world. First person. Even very earthy, bodily metaphors can prove to be quite abstract if we over rely on them. In some ways, I think Jonathan's symbolic language helpfully fulfills what McGilchrist describes with his academic work on neuroscience and so on. Taking it back to liturgy is most fruitful.

@jrgames29 Жыл бұрын

Yes - cognition is as much about the body as it is the brain. Everything comes back to incarnation and the scientists are slowing finding their way back to the Johannine prologue.

@annawray2220 Жыл бұрын

I met Iain a few weeks back in Oxford, it was magic!

@kariross1707 Жыл бұрын

The Master and his Emissary is one of my all time life-changing favorite books and I love Jonathan's work, especially his insights into mysticism which I found through Jordan Peterson- (whom was a gateway for me to Christianity 5 years ago, having grownup in a secular intellectual household.) I recently watched on KZfaq Ken Wilbur about his Integral Theory and how we (humanity) are backsliding in the "culture wars" and it occurred to me while watching this that I can't help but think that the Right brain ability to "see with eyes to see" (Jesus), non-dual thinking which I've picked up from Fr. Richard Rohr, Ken Wilbur's integral theory, and Simone Weil's mystical brilliance, whom Iain mentioned towards the end (and whom I adore immensely)-- it's all talking about the same thing. We all know where we need to be going but have different language (or "metaphors", that are so important) and that what exactly we are "paying attention to" gives the nuance of the direction to head in. Like Jonathan I lean towards art (poetic art, narrative, and also music) to see Truth, Goodness, and Beauty. But philosophy, physics, psychology, theology, and social discourse are all legitimate modes or guides, as well. All this is to say: I had a brilliantly stimulating hour listening to this and it gives me hope for humanity! Thank you both, kind gentlemen!!

@matthewsmi2239 Жыл бұрын

I'm a huge admirer or Wilber - but worth mentioning that the single aspect of Integral he was emphasising in that Rebel Wisdom conversation with David Fuller was Spiral Dynamics.....as developed by Dr Graves, Don Beck and Chris Cowan. Wilber adjusted the colour sequence slightly. I continue to hope there is indeed a Second Tier (Spiral Dynamics) space where humans of good will and open mind can meet, beyond the culture war. Meanwhile, I am deeply grateful for the work of Iain McGilchrist.

@williamkoscielniak7871 Жыл бұрын

@@matthewsmi2239 I hope people who see the world through a 2nd tier lens can find places to come together and meet as well. I imagine that right now the internet is probably the best bet for most people, but it would be very helpful if some actual physical institutions could open up.

@kangaroocaliphate1577 Жыл бұрын

Ken Wilbur! 👍

@Jacob011 Жыл бұрын

I couldn't believe my eyes, but there it is. Glad you two got to talk together.

@AaronGrosch29 Жыл бұрын

What a riveting conversation. Would that more people learned to discuss differences in such a manner, we would all be much better off.

@alrahn Жыл бұрын

Preach

@mostlydead3261 Жыл бұрын

Jonathon pls try to get a convo with Bruno Latour.. many ppl dont know that he considers himself a faithful Catholic.. I think his philosophy offers many fruitful resources for the convos going on in this corner of the internet..

@grahammoffat9752 Жыл бұрын

Bruno Latour is far too postmodern for Jonathon Pageau. I totally agree with you though. I would include Brian Massumi, Timothy Morton, Bayo Akomolafe too, but that will never happen.

@StephanieMoDavis Жыл бұрын

The 21 min. mark, I completely understand what Jonathan is saying regarding beauty as not reduced to show, it's even deeper than that. "She" or the right is the call to participation, it's very distant and a stretch to experience this. It is strange to feel but "she" never desires to be showcased, only to uplift others and her magnificence doesn't require a stage.

@conornagle9528 Жыл бұрын

Incredible dialogue. Thank you to both of you inspirational gentlemen. God bless.

@mythosandlogos Жыл бұрын

I’m remarkably pleased to see this crossover. Wonderful!

@Jay_Hendrix Жыл бұрын

The idea that consciousness and matter are two different states of the same substance resonates with me. I don't like this notion of "dead" matter and "living" matter. I prefer to think of it as conscious or unconscious matter. A cat is conscious but cat food is unconscious. When the cat eats the cat food, the unconscious food is integrated into the conscious body of the cat and "awakens," becoming conscious. Similarly the previously conscious matter in the cat that sheds away goes to sleep and becomes unconscious, lying dormant until the circumstance where it awakens occurs once more.

@forscherr2 Жыл бұрын

Wow, I like the way you said that unconscious matter becomes conscious when it's absorbed by a conscious being (and that becomes dormant/unconscious when the being excretes it).

@Jay_Hendrix Жыл бұрын

@@forscherr2 Thank you! But the implication I want to point to with my framing is that you dream when you're unconscious, meaning that I'm implying that unconscious matter "dreams" in some way. And that's usually where I lose people 😅

@forscherr2 Жыл бұрын

@@Jay_Hendrix Ah I didn't see it that way when I read your comment... I'm asking myself what the preconditions are for matter to be conscious, then.

@crazykyy Жыл бұрын

I view Macgilchrist as one of the foundational figures which set me on the path I am now in terms of working to see the world in a more complete (less one-sided, or hemispheric) way. Thank you, sir, for sharing your thoughtful and engaging conversation with him. I sincerely appreciate your perspective.

@meanjoehix4534 Жыл бұрын

Wow can't believe you got Michael Caine on! Haha. This was another great conversation. Now we just need the 15 hour version

@MoreChrist Жыл бұрын

I'd like to hear Iain on St Gregory Palamas and the Essence-Energies distinction. It strikes me as the perfect balance and coming together of opposites that he apparently longs for.

@Aaron-xb4rq Жыл бұрын

And Transcendence and Immanence. The Holy One and the Shekinah. Concealed and revealed.

@galaxxy09 Жыл бұрын

So excited for this talk! Thank you both!

@s2a1ha1j2a Жыл бұрын

Finally!!! Thank you Jonathan and Dr. McGilchrist. Blessings

@lincwhitney Жыл бұрын

Woah epic crossover

@jordanheath5258 Жыл бұрын

Unexpected, but greatly welcomed!! This will be an awesome listen

@judithgervais2566 Жыл бұрын

A third philosopher who understood the fundamental nature of attention was Bernard Lonergan. His "transcendent method" begins with the instruction to 'be attentive.' Both of these men would be able to engage with Lonergan well and would have much to contribute to furthering the conversation through asking many important and creative further relevant questions.

@tomgreene1843 5 ай бұрын

Lonergan ...great guy read his ''Method in Theology'' many years ago .....ah the Jesuits!

@joshuaball2102 Жыл бұрын

I literally bought , The Master and His Emissary and 'The Matter with Things" this week

@stevenschwartz765 Жыл бұрын

I know what you will be doing for the next two years ☺️

@joshuaball2102 Жыл бұрын

@@stevenschwartz765 4, I read slow

@SpiritusBythos Жыл бұрын

So very excited to hear this conversation. Thank you in advance. God Bless PEACE

@mikenawrot7787 Жыл бұрын

I HAVE BEEN DREAMING OF THIS DISCUSSION!!!!!!!!! Can't wait to hear it! :) :)

@noleenole8254 Жыл бұрын

I could listen to you two talk every day.

@jordanedgeley6601 Жыл бұрын

Better than I expected

@timothydeneffe249 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for this Jonathan. This match is one I've been waiting for to happen. I saw very early on the similarities. I see a real convergence between you, Ian and John V.

@mattcarlson5345 Жыл бұрын

SOOOOOO EXCIIIIIIITED! I've been aggressively wishing for these two to speak

@ivanengel8887 Жыл бұрын

I was honestly writing about these same topics about attention and getting to the same conclusions regarding the solutions. I agree completely: The problem would be getting through to people who take attention for granted, who take their worldview for granted. It's already in the Bible, "He who has ears..." These are the true dark ages. I don't take the Gnostic position that truth is developing itself. You may want to see it be progressively instantiated, embodied more and more. But progress is such a damned snake that we'll never make it if we keep thinking Gnosticism or liberalism are our friends. They are our misguided brethren.

@thelawfus Жыл бұрын

Which of our siblings is correctly guided? I don’t disagree with your conclusion, but I am curious about where you think we SHOULD be looking for guide stars (other than ourselves and those we cannot help but love (and those who cannot help but love us).

@ivanengel8887 Жыл бұрын

@@thelawfus Christ, the Orthodox Church, non-duality (as opposed to monism and dualism). It is God who discloses reality to us when we clear our nous (mind) from distraction.

@jackiek4159 Жыл бұрын

Great conversation! Thank you gentlemen! 🙏🏻💞

@dawnmuir5052 Жыл бұрын

YES!!!!!! I've been hoping this would happen! WONDERFUL!! ❤️

@dawnmuir5052 Жыл бұрын

Wonderful to see two great minds coming from such different directions contemplating the mystery of existence and so often converging toward reality. Very informative and encouraging to fellow seekers of truth lucky enough to listen in! Thank you!

@littlelights6798 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for this conversation

@jerubaal3333 Жыл бұрын

"artificial stupidity" - I love it!

@yolobro2071 Жыл бұрын

Great conversation.

@PhilosophicalGospelPodcast Жыл бұрын

The analogy articulated by Iain in regard to water and the states of matter as related to consciousness as an ontological primary is excellent! Great interview, Jonathan, enjoyed it. God bless.

@somechrisguy Жыл бұрын

"This bonfire of things we think we can do without", great imagery, made me chuckle

@MrMarccj Жыл бұрын

This guy is cracking me up, in a good way.

@sillygoose4472 Жыл бұрын

Didn't think these two beautiful people would have a conversation, I'm so glad they did.

@alexdowd02 Жыл бұрын

Great video. This one’s been a long time coming

@jordanedgeley6601 Жыл бұрын

Can not wait this

@brycew2 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for this!

@Joefrenomics Жыл бұрын

Oh wow it’s finally happening! Super psyched for this!

@CAT-2323 Жыл бұрын

Did you enjoy it?

@micahjobbins7041 Жыл бұрын

Lovely convo

@michaelnardini4934 Жыл бұрын

absolutely brilliant man

@kbeetles Жыл бұрын

I definitely want to adopt the phrase "artificial stupidity" - and on the basis of that, "algorithmic stupidity", too.

@TheDanieldineen 4 ай бұрын

A concept from music therapy that you mention around participating in art (particularly music) is the concept of 'musiking' (Christopher Small 1998(ish)) and more on the specific music therapy context 'health musiking' (Brynulf Stige 2002(ish)) (apologies I'm trying to remember the references from the top of my head so dates may be wrong)! I wrote an (unpublished/partially finished) paper on this and the concept of the iso-principle (how music therapists synchronize with their clients) that may be of interest! From an enthralled music therapist/cognitive scientist! I love what the both of you do! 🔥🔥🔥👍

@jesseblayney Жыл бұрын

I’m praying for part 2 now

@Aaron-xb4rq Жыл бұрын

Iain’s comments about the divine creation as process is very reminiscent of Eugene Gendlin’s work, “A Process Model.” Iain’s discussion on attention is also directly related to Gendlin’s other more famous work, “Focusing.” He’s really onto something here.

@crakhaed Жыл бұрын

Beautiful 👌

@LochlainnMacLock Жыл бұрын

Great talk!

@gudmunduragustsson5872 Жыл бұрын

Murderous duo! Thank you so much for sharing this conversation.

@hopenkwelle8874 Жыл бұрын

It’s too hard to follow you two lol. So insightful I keep going in constant tangents I have to rewind frequently to follow! Amazing exchange. Thank you both Senseis🙌🏾

@Zzyzzyx Жыл бұрын

Me too!!

@ai5837 Жыл бұрын

🤗🤗🤗 I've been waiting for this for years! 😊 McGilchrist & Vervaeke next! 😊 Then all three 🤗🤗🤗 ❤

@surfism Жыл бұрын

Surfing has a lot to offer the quest for engagement. It is actually a really good metaphor for the fluid foundation of consciousness, as I describe in my philosophy of Surfism.

@fargothbosmer2059 Жыл бұрын

Wonderful video. The 2nd half of that was pretty magic. I hope to meet Jonathan one day

@rme36 Жыл бұрын

Long-awaited - thank you

@Rotek10000 Жыл бұрын

Jonathan, you must read the second book and come back with another fascinating talk!

@logos_spermaticos Жыл бұрын

I've been hoping to see this convo take place for years!

@WhiteStoneName Жыл бұрын

26:45 regarding unity & multiplicity and decentralization. We need to distinguish/understand/see the difference between persons and individuals. A person is fundamentally a unity of multiplicity, one who participates in being. An individual (and its corollary the collective) is a unity of identitatian replicants. A false unity. Christ and AntiChrist. I made a video on Christian perennialism vs religious pluralism which gets into this, if one finds that salient.

@leondbleondb Жыл бұрын

Why is that important or useful. Serious question

@WhiteStoneName Жыл бұрын

@@leondbleondb in part of denominating the spiritual disease at the heart of the West. Imo. Otherwise, people will keep trying to treat symptoms & medicating, rather than becoming healthy.

@thesecondlawandthetowerhou6026 Жыл бұрын

There is something rich in personhood that I can never pin down. A person defies categorization: something holy there. Fascinating, thank you.

@PromoMIAR Жыл бұрын

Brilliant!

@eyeam9305 Жыл бұрын

When you guys were talking about opposites and the one and the many etc...I couldn't help but be reminded of good ol' Alan Watts. He was always saying almost exactly the same thing.

@jonathonray6198 Жыл бұрын

Oh my goodness!!! Yessss!

@JamesDixonMusic Жыл бұрын

Yesssss. Finally

@ibelieve3111 4 ай бұрын

Thanks

@sarahbefrank.3364 Жыл бұрын

I think the thing about fractalization is it seems you have the illusion of multiplicity in choice and after a certain point your left with the opposite. Not much to work with. Not sure if this thought is useful to anyone but myself but I'll put that out there. It's beyond exciting to see an age of science and religion coming together in their proper relationship again.Even if it's just in language. Complimenting eachother.And Lain is absolutely right. We are not cisterns or fountains full of new information or expression unique to the individual but it's a reception and giving oneself over to attention of what it is that is outside of us. Its a discovery on our part. Attention is a moral act! And Love is purer attention to the existence of the other. Thank you for sharing your lens.❤️

@aaronh8095 Ай бұрын

What makes medieval church more participative than say, Lutheran worship? My understanding of the medieval church service is that it largely consisted of priests performing the rituals and choirs singing the mass, while the congregation simply watched, and received just the body in the Eucharist. In terms of worship practice, Luther’s reformation simply added hymns and responses, restored communion in both kinds, and allowed for the option of using the vernacular (although his first reformed mass, the Formulae Misse of 1523, was still in Latin). The latter seems to me to be more participative for the laity, or at least the participation is more active. I would agree that the further degradation of ritual in Protestant churches as time has gone on is a bad thing.

@dionysis_ Жыл бұрын

So happy to see this 🙂 I am just going through the second tome of “The Matter with Things” and it is an amazing achievement 👏 EDIT: A wonderful conversation. I feel like there would be benefit in more discussion as the connection seemed to me to happen near the end. In particular, I would love to hear a discussion around specific symbolic patterns.

@Jacob011 Жыл бұрын

I will be delving into the second volume soon. To me, the first volume didn't feel like it added anything new, since I've already read TMAHE, which is not to say it is not important.

@Kate77777 Жыл бұрын

I recommend also reading Henri Bortoft to experience what he means by shifting your attention and conscious process. Goethe's participatory method is a hinge of this: binding together the two ways of seeing.

@thesecondlawandthetowerhou6026 Жыл бұрын

Could you elaborate on Goethe’s participatory method?

@catherinebridle9414 Жыл бұрын

Oh this is going to be so good!! Currently reading 'The Master and His Emissary '.

@JamesDixonMusic Жыл бұрын

Fabulous

@WhiteStoneName Жыл бұрын

21:00 the medium is the message

@Jay_Hendrix Жыл бұрын

That countdown animation wigged me out o_o

@arturhashmi6281 3 ай бұрын

40:05 Very interesting, there is a pretty similar story in Poland about Saint Stanislaus who was killed during the mass in 1079 because he openly criticised and excommunicated the Ruller for cruelty, acording to the hagiography King Boleslaw the Bold killed him himself, then guards cut him into pieces and gave them to wild bests but his members miraculously reintegrated while he was guarded by four eagles. Not long after that in 1138 King Boleslaw the Wrymouth divided the Kingdom among his six sons which ended with constant fraternal wars for nearly 200 years, so process of national unification of multiple conflicted duchies became identified with the story about dismembered and reintegrated body of St.Stanislaus. It was not last moment in the Polish history when state lost independence or unity, so this this myth became naturally important in Polish identity no matter how historicaly accurate it really is.

@Joefrenomics Жыл бұрын

Loved that you guys conversed, but my one point of (constructive) criticism is this: I believe your philosophy of art is quite different, it would have been interesting for you guys to really nail down your differences in regards to art. [For example, I believe your view points on the Renaissance are opposed.]

@1walkerw Жыл бұрын

I highly recommend reading Mattias Desmet’s book. I think it is one of the most important books of the century.

@betterdaysahead3746 Жыл бұрын

Really looking forward to this.

@gavaniacono Жыл бұрын

With Iain I see some Heidegger, grasping, and Blake, imagination, and am reminded of the Carlisles and Burkes who protested aspects of modern life as it was emerging. Centuries later, here we are, the protest is maintained.

@1walkerw Жыл бұрын

YAAAASSSSSS

@mntomovi Жыл бұрын

HOW DID I MISS THIS

@kathryn5941 Жыл бұрын

Ohhhhh lala Good job connecting! This is gonna be good!

@sardar_gurjot Жыл бұрын

Hey Jonathan, if you would please mind bringing Charles Eisenstien on your show, it would wonderful!

@ruthlewis673 Жыл бұрын

Over 40 years ago l found myself in a crisis both intellectual and spiritual. My response was to seek out a Jungian therapist; pretty spare on the ground at the time. Almost from the beginning l was confronted by a dream that stated clearly, in stark poetic imagery that l was drowning in media. Now if that was so 40 years ago it doesn't take much to envision the overwhelm today. Yes we need a collective transformation of consciousness, but how? As Jung said we don't become enlightened by imagining figures of light but by entering, what seems, to the ego, the dark unconscious.A paradox; we enter into the unconscious in order to become conscious A friend of mine who had done some of the original work on the dreaming brain, recommend this exercise; tonight before falling asleep ( good image falling asleep)ask your deepest Self what your most pressing spiritual problem is? You may have to wait a day or two for the answer however it will come and is likely to be very humbling, very. If we are not willing to do this humbling inner work then all our talk is just that talk, meantime the world goes to hell in a handcart.🐨

@arono9304 Жыл бұрын

Why does it cut out briefly at 9:22? Great talk by the way!

@JonathanPageau Жыл бұрын

He has connection issues.

@jbell0243 Жыл бұрын

Jonathan. Love your work and agree with your posited principles almost 100%. My only request is give opera a chance. I agree the convert hall can become like a straight jacket, a museum a place of idiosyncrasies etc. but that is not the bulk of the operatic tradition. Wagner for example, the beginning of the push towards concert hall esque things is entirely supposed to take the listener up in it. To my mind Warner is inadvertently pushing back towards a liturgical mode.

@jbell0243 Жыл бұрын

Concert hall

@Dubs84 Жыл бұрын

Love these two!

@elucidation3064 Жыл бұрын

Love this guy's accent lol.

@thagreatadante Жыл бұрын

Well spoken Scottish .

@kevinhathaway7240 Жыл бұрын

Very interesting and helpful. One good thinker along these lines is Dr. David Bradshaw, "Aristotle East and West." My own position is that Plato had the correct idea of spirituality. Albeit, Aquinas went with Aristotle which was the wrong direction. So the idea that Christians hold to be doctrinal is that 'Neo-Platonism' is a bad thing is misguided. There was another large Church thinker, Augustine, who embraced much of Plato. So, which Thomas was right?

@addiemo8304 Жыл бұрын

Jonathan's face when he says "attend"

@marklefebvre5758 Жыл бұрын

Attention is that which allows for a different participation. So it is not something you can look at objectively and get anything out of (including understanding), it needs to impact your actions in the world, not explain your actions or the actions of others.

@chdao Жыл бұрын

Embracing panentheism and the Dao has got my attention. A Christianity that could embrace these gives me hope, because it is my understanding that we need a reason to come together and work towards a common goal together that probably necessitates a religion.

@grey.knight Жыл бұрын

Christianity can never be pantheism. There is only one G-d. The tao is a great philosophy to sit and gaze at your navel, drink tea all day with a side of lotus. The goal of true religion is salvation not gabbing over vain philosophy like these two guys or the taoists.

@chdao Жыл бұрын

@@grey.knight Pantheism and panentheism are not the same. The first says that God is everything. The other says that God is in everything and everything is in God. In a way, they are both monotheistic. It is just deciding whether God exists outside of creation or not. Obviously, if God created everything, He is outside of it, but what did He use to create it. Panentheism basically says that the Creation is His Body and that He is also transcendent of it. At least this is my understanding and what makes sense to me. Every Thing is Sacred, because Every Thing is of God. There is nothing outside of God. God is All there Is.

@lilianarovegno4325 3 ай бұрын

I would love to have and read Dr Mcgilchrist's new books. I am in Perú and it is very expensive to buy it through Amazon. I can perfectly read it in Engilsh . Is there anogher way to get it. Please do not suggest me to fly to Scottland. Not yet.❤

@dominickmas2133 Жыл бұрын

22:34

@hopenkwelle8874 Жыл бұрын

49:00

@stevenschwartz765 Жыл бұрын

Johnathan, definitely read the new book , the matter with things. You will find his parts about time and space delightful. Time as more like a spiral and movement is primary over stasis

@Jacob011 Жыл бұрын

I feel like Jonathan kinda already knows everything on intuitive level that Iain is laying out in his massive tomes.

@stevenschwartz765 Жыл бұрын

@@Jacob011 for sure. I think Johnathan is frustrated because Iain is so close to his understanding of things.

@thesecondlawandthetowerhou6026 Жыл бұрын

Every body is spread too thin.

@benjaminmcvay9864 Жыл бұрын

45:13

@dreamtowermedia5301 Жыл бұрын

When Jonathan said "once in awhile" about the denigration of the physical/the body in Christianity, I immediately said out loud, "once in awhile?!" and then Iain said the same thing. LOL