I see a very important factor in good child raising being ignored all the time, it takes a village… parents need help. What’s worse, one parent staying home isolated with the children or the hell of both parents having a career and fighting about who’s going to give up to take care of the children? It’s easy to say that studies show that children from parents who stay together do better but if you look closely, most parents stay together because they have help. An extensive family with multiple active grandparents, aunts and uncles, with multiple role models of both genders is the best for a child, independently if the parents are together or not. What I observed in my life, is that is the factor that makes all the difference. School or employees can never replace that because they don’t feel personally involved or responsible for the child.

I think economics plays a larger role in the disintegration of the nuclear family than the sexual revolution. Marriage has been on a significant decline because people can't afford home ownership, work life completely overwhelms social life, and raising children is not possible because education and healthcare costs have skyrocketed.

A very important thing to know about the egalitarian hunter gatherers: Hunter gatherers spent 15-20 hours a WEEK working. That’s roughly 2 hours a day for both mom and dad. The rest of the time they devoted to leisure. ALL of our marriage problems stem from the fact that 8 hours a day is too much time to work a job if we’re supposed to come home and home-make or raise kids afterwards. It’s an over-worked issue that we have, not a “who should work” issue.

Be a stable person, as best you can. Take responsibility for your shortcomings/problematic tendencies, and actively seek engagement with others and physical/mental stimulation. People waste their productive energy on policing others rather than regulating themselves. But a well-balanced adult is the one thing a child needs most.

So as a father who is no longer with the woman I had my daughter with I'll say this. Have these conversations with the women you're with LONG before you think of having children. We share a complete 50/50 split of our little one. We had talked about it a year before she was born that I wanted a 50/50 split and I was going to fight like hell if she tried to get into the way. She's been great about it we have a great relationship with our daughter and largely with each other still. To the young men who have this conversation pay attention to a few things. 1. If she's not 100% on board with this rethink your partner. If she gives you any red flag about how she'll treat you and your childs relationship or shows signs of vindictiveness rethink the relationship.

Watching this makes me think of the life I imagined living when I was younger. I remember talking about getting married and having children. I used to talk about having 6 children! But now, I am 35 years old, single, and child-free. I'm glad women live in a world where they don't have to get married and don't have to have children.

Two adults who aren’t emotionally mature are worse than one emotionally capable adult.

As for me, people don't give enough credit to relationships and letting someone into your life and body. Everyday I see people dating some jerks and thinking it's temporary or not serious. How come it's not serious if choosing a partner is one of the most responsible and important decision in our lives? The way family is shown in the media is awful and it's a pity that the majority of people are so prone to this propaganda. Family is the most important social unity. If built correctly, it's the basis for secure and fulfilled life. Do not underestimate it's value.

The chief barrier to marriage and child rearing is economic. Too much wealth concentrated in too few hands; too much education required to take one's place in the workforce, and the excessive cost of that education. Add in the high cost of housing and you have a problem. If you want to solve the problem of unstable family situations, you first have to solve the problems within modern capitalism.

In expensive cities, like Paris or NYC, people are in relationships because they can split costs. They also don’t have kids because of the added expense and the reality of being too busy working. In mid-priced cities, more people are often single and occasionally may have enough square feet for a child, spouse is optional. In small towns, suburbs, and rural areas nuclear families prevail, because they have the space and can afford the time and expense. None of this has to do with sexuality, which may or may not correspond to one domestic life.

Politicians and thought leaders will blame literally everything else on the lack of couples having children, except the blatantly obvious. Kids are too damn expensive to have.

I hate when people act like marriage is the best thing when often times it’s not. My parents marriage was very toxic and it involved a lot of verbal and mental abuse. Not going to say which parent did what cuz that’s not important. But the point is you can be married and still expose your children to toxic behaviors. I’m a victim of it myself. And I cannot stand when people say that being married is “better” because that is not often the case.

7:30 Over 95% of singles say that they're looking for these 5 things: Somebody who respects them, someone that they can trust and confide in, somebody who makes them laugh, someone who makes enough time for them, and someone who they feel physically attracted to. Thought it was an interesting quote. Do you agree?

I decided when I was 14 yo that I would never marry. I kept that promise to myself; best decision I ever made. It's true that children are better off with two parents but ONLY if the parents have a healthy marriage which is often not the case, according to statistics (and observation).

Once the economic dependency that kept so many families together was removed, creating more equal marriages, emotional dependency becomes a much more critical feature for a successful marriage. Something that requires a great deal of time, desire and effort. Hence the high divorce rate and the evaporation of any social stigma that used to accompany it. Which in turn leads to more divorce.

Children are a lifetime investment.

When the biggest indicator for lowered outcomes is one or no parents in the picture, the answer is to be more careful about how children are conceived. If you're not going to stay with someone for 18+ years, keep it covered.

People today are constantly thinking...maybe I could do better, maybe the perfect partner is just around the corner... they're not. The commodification of relationships hasn't helped at all, aided in large parts with daring apps.

I often feel like coparenting families are ignored in these conversations and that the stats havent caught up with alternative family models. not being married is not equivalent to parenting solo. I also think poverty is a large factor in the stats quoted about single parenting and its impact on children.

The comment about stability vs fairness was very interesting. I think that’s what is really different now. Women have more of everything in a relationship including freedom and ability to leave in many cases I know that some still don’t have that option, but in order for that balanced fairness dynamic to be functional and stable you really need two people that genuinely agree on some of those investment points. Marriage can still be wonderful and healthy and positive and sexually satisfying but it can still be a booby trap and lead to death spiritually, emotionally and physically. The best big think in a while 😀👍

The term Sexual Revolution used to mean 'freely having sex', but now also means the balance between the sexes and LGBTQ+ issues. There should be some sort of distinguishing line between the two. The Sexual Revolution in the '80s (and into the '90s) is different than in the 2000s. You may even differ in your opinions of exactly when, but there should be a distinct line there.

It's so awkward because in some ways I watch this video and think, "Man, it's been like that for a *while* now, so it's weird they are even mentioning it," and in others I sit here and think, "In no way is that the majority opinion and it's negligent to posit that opinion as if it is." On another note, keep the following in mind: Americans have always been of a mind to marry for love over any other concepts. Or, at least, that has been the prevailing thought. *That is still the case.* But now more than ever, with the newfound ability to hop in and out of even "extremely" committed relationships like marriage (financially, legally, socially, and perhaps emotionally) most people are not going to settle for anything but the absolute "true love" of their life: one they can love wholly and who loves them wholly. And with the rates of mental and emotional issues on the rise, people may find that hard. Or impossible.

Wealthy and educated people are still getting married at a consistent rate.

It's gotten so complicated over ten years, that's what I'll tell you. Family dynamics have been increasingly more and more deteriorative and somehow the children find themselves burying in their own troubles and responsibilities they have yet to attain.

"Traditions are a guide to human life." My shift towards a more conservative viewpoint was influenced by a reflection on a quote, possibly paraphrased, by David Hume. This thought particularly resonates with the discussion around children in the aftermath of the sexual revolution. It begs an important question: if we set aside traditions (like the nuclear family, holidays, etc.), how do we successfully impart knowledge and values to future generations? I believe that our focus should be predominantly on the welfare of children, rather than solely on the preferences of parents. This ideological evolution represents a significant journey from my freshman year at Bard College in 2011. At that time, 'Big Think' (this KZfaq channel) was introduced as an experimental course, and I remember being deeply engaged with President Botstein's video on "What is Art?" and other thought-provoking content from the course. My initial reactions were shaped by a more liberal perspective, which over time, evolved into my current viewpoint.

I think the purpose of marriage has changed. The purpose of family have not. The two either hsve to find a cohesive conclusion or be clearly defined with laws that reflect. The sexual revolution isnt solely to blame. Marriage changed. Once women got the ability to do more academically and economically, women made differnt choices about their lives. But the family never changed. Two biological parents still have to educate their children, provide for their children. I dont blame people for opting out of having children or getting marriage all together. Being single seems to be ideal if the end goal is to experiance flexibility.

1. Reducing the role of a father to just. A bread winner has been obsolete since we left caves and nomadic lives. Fathers have many different roles, but modern society is trying hard to destroy the role and identity of men. People like this lady who refers to others as “CIS” and view everything as tribalist thoughts are precisely the ones destroying family, men and even women.

Sad to see this channel partner with betterhelp after the FTC’s ruling on how they’ve treated patients’ sensitive health data.

Agreed. Models of marriage that are based on one partner's complete economic dependence on the other are doomed to fail. Marriage as slavery is not worth returning to.

Couldn’t agree more with the closing remarks. No matter how disappointed you are with the way marriage has evolved, there’s no going back. We have to adapt to thrive.

2:45 Are single parents bad for children or do we live in a system that does not value women, children, and families? In the US: - Women don’t have guaranteed maternity leave, let alone paid maternity leave. - Child care options are few in numbers, hard to find, and very expensive; - Parents often feel financial strain after having children. The Turn Away Study showed women turned away from seeking abortion were likely to suffer financial stress. - Parents are worried about housing: it’s getting so expensive. - The parent working multiple jobs to support a family is glorified, even though they have little time with their children. But a parent accepting assistance so they only have to work one job and spend time with their children is vilified as a leach on the system/welfare queen. Until we make parenting and life easier for people, nothing In France, mothers receive pelvic physical therapy to restore their pelvic health after child birth. If we tried to introduce something like that, men in congress would laugh uncontrollably. Create a system where people can thrive and maybe we’ll do better.

It's really a bummer how crappy this is for human interaction, how we picks sides and who takes more power.... when it should just be healthy ,fair and strong...

The message is, "Stop worrying. No matter what form of marriage their parents choose, the kids are all right." But with nothing to back up the position except soft-core family-porn photos and feel-good underscoring, it amounts to nothing more than self-serving propaganda. Take Judith Butler's nauseating, 'We have to allow ourselves to be challenged, to accept the invitation to revise our ways of thinking, because that's the only way to be open to people who are trying to make their claim, for perhaps the first time, to be heard, to be acknowledged." Translation: my adult personal 'liberation' is more important than the welfare of my children. Butler attempts to justify her point of view by, in effect, telling us, 'Look at my son, he turned out perfectly fine, didn't he?' But why should we take her world for it? Shouldn't we ask the son himself? Butler obviously has a personal bias in defending her own life and work. But the one thing this piece doesn't do is ask those most affected by the attitude it espouses: our children.

WE MAKING IT OUT OF OUR GOLDEN AGE WITH THIS ONE 🔥🔥🔥

Great collection of trends and perspectives, with a positive outlook. Just one thing: It's claimed that marrital partners don't send daily poems to each other. I think I have been duped, in rhyme.

Two minutes in and I'm completely immersed in the comments and have abandoned the video.

Those who think this is just a western phenomenon are wrong. This is happening even in conservative Eastern societies - even societies that still have a traditional set up. Divorce is bad for kids, so is bad marriages of people who stay married 'for the kids'. I know so many who've made this mistake. My parents included. Marriages shouldn't have to last. People grow apart. It's better for a child to see their parents thriving than just going through the motions. The important thing is for humans to evolve. There are many ways to love. Many ways to have emotionally fulfilling relationships. "Stability" can come from the immediate and extended families and the community.

24 seconds in and I think she’s talking about some future utopia. It’s definitely not the life I’m experiencing.

Thank you for this. I've been thinking about how relationships are multifaceted, I do not believe need to be aspected specifically to a singular tradition for all people. This is a wonderful explanation to a complex topic that I think should be expanded further upon.

I think we need to remember always that whatever model we choose children should never be neglected.

Some things I agree with, others I question from some of these overall analysis but very intriguing nevertheless! Great discussions on love, sex, relationships & family.

This video is basically children with wealthier parents succeed more than their counterparts... Like well yeah no shit 😂. Your more likely to get married if your financially stable than if your not.

“…are still opting in huge numbers into marriage”. To borrow a term from the tech field, it’s a legacy system much like the Zip disk.

It is that they are finally recognizing the problem but they are only seeing part of the reasons why and coming up with all the wrong solutions.

2:34 my parents were married and they were both abusive towards one another and me, i don't think it's a question about begin married or not, but a matter wether the three of them, the parents and the child are compatible 2:40 unless they have a conservative american upbringing where they decide to become pregnant repeatedly on purpose, it has happeemd before in America, especially in the south

I guess now that religious, governmental and economic coercion losing grip as the glue holding many marriages together, something else will have to replace it. Some relationships turn awful and will never get better, in which case a split is the only realistic option. But sometimes relationships have rough patches, lasting months or longer. What will get us through now?

Amazing video!

Imo promiscuity is strongly related to family desintegration. And I don't mean just cheating, I mean promiscuity in general. But since it doesn't seem to be on the agenda it isn't discussed, even this short documentary won't mention it.

Betterhelp sells your private data to send you targeted ads based on what you discuss with your therapist.😂

Very little mention about the damage the sexual revolution has caused to society, although the consequences such as broken families is talked about.

Some of the most important values are themselves a process, not an end. When we lose sight of that and believe they have been achieved, the opposite of progress follows

How profoundly thought provoking.

I wonder how many times I've seen "change jobs" recommended to avoid the disposable labor trap. I wonder how that facilitates the establishment of intimacy.

We hear about how less people are getting married etc. But I look around and feel like I'm the only single person, and everyone is in a relationship, and I feel like it's just not going to happen to me, and I just want to find a life partner (not even necessarily getting married). I'm 34, female.

We fear financial ruin from housing, retirement, and healthcare. How can we think of kids when we're mentally in survival mode?!

My observation: I know only a single family, where the wife happily embraces her traditional role (by choice), father being the provider, and let me tell you, I envy them. It’s harmonious, the house is beautiful and superbly organized, and every body seems so happy. And their kid is a talent. My family is pure stress and chaos, who can work when, take care of kids, prepare a meal. We’re almost 50:50 in terms of the household, but I work more (and earn more) have stable jobs, and absolutely no time to take care of myself and my health. Everybody is doing everything and nothing gets done…

Human beings are never going to be satisfied. People can seek happiness, or just reconcile themselves to living miserable lives. It does not always come down to that choise, but it does often enough.

Interesting topic of discussion. It got me thinking that people who want to have children should consider that as the basis of a relationship that will involve parenting. Skip all the romantic monogamous love stuff and just find someone you get along with and share common child rearing goals with and have kids together, as co-parenting friends. Keep your own individual romantic lives separate from the business of co-child rearing. There's no ugly breakups if you're not really together to begin with and the common goal is having and raising children. But then again, I'm not someone who wants to be a parent, so what do I know.

SOLD OUT. Instead of just saying out loud that egotistical wishes of some have destroyed millions of kids` lives...

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 - *The shift towards companion choice in relationships challenges traditional norms, with monogamy seen as stabilizing societies and improving child outcomes.* 00:56 - *Children learn societal norms by observing models; the focus should be on egalitarian parenting for a renewed future.* 02:29 - *The argument is made that children are the losers of the sexual revolution, citing evidence of benefits for children in intact households.* 03:27 - *The changing roles of fathers are discussed, emphasizing the need to redefine fatherhood to prevent male disadvantage and intergenerational struggles.* 04:55 - *Male caretaking potential is highlighted, drawing parallels with other primates and suggesting the potential for increased male involvement in childcare.* 06:24 - *The influence of societal changes on parenting and evolving attitudes toward homophobia are explored.* 07:50 - *The concept of "slow love" is discussed, emphasizing the importance of courtship for long-term relationships.* 09:17 - *Marriage is portrayed as a commitment device for parenting, with a focus on equality in modern relationships.* 10:16 - *Historical perspectives on partnerships, the changing nature of marriage, and the claim that the institution is dead are presented.* 11:44 - *The need for new models of family life that balance stability and equality is emphasized, challenging the outdated economic dependency model of marriage.* Made with HARPA AI

Everyone wants to blame the sexual revolution, sexually active women, the fall of the nuclear family, etc. when the reality is that we created this mess by design. We have actively set most families (including nuclear families) up for failure with high costs, lack of parental leave policies, an underfunded and failing education system, and this idea that if you don't fit within a certain social framework you automatically are a failure no matter what. Also, many fathers have an apathy for parenting. It has nothing to do with their loss of the role of "breadwinner" and everything to do with the fact that they want to be sexually active while taking none of the responsibility for the consequences. Go ask any single mother about their child's father, and far too many of them will tell you that he has zero interest in being a good dad.

Marriage and even having a child has nothing to do with being in love. Not saying it cannot be... but in actuality, it often is revolved around the idea on; working as a team, with your partner to raise another human being, which later evolves in the entire family working as one team. Yes, you can care for each other but it's much more than a being with someone who likes the way you look, what you ear, how you talk and etc, in my honest opinion. It took me a while to realize this. Now that I do, I am much more open to a relationship... especially long term.

Interesting take by sharing rather polarized perspectives.

1) Title of the video has exactly zero connection to the content. 2) Louise Perry being featured here -- Was her interview cut to fit the rest of the people's narratives? Something's odd here.

I'm a 32 year old man. I was living with my now wife for 7 years before we got married. Marriage felt like a celebration of our successful relationship and coupling rather than a coupling itself. I wouldn't say it has fundamentally changed anything; it was just a fancy party with a change in legal status. We have a child now who is almost 1 year old. I am very confident I picked I picked right person. Long courting seems to be an excellent way to build a successful family unit. It gives you both plenty of time to figure out if the relationship is sustainable. It also gives you time to work on your professional life and become financially stable enough to even consider having kids. I would say that rushing relationships, marriage and/or kids is a huge gamble. Take your time and enjoy life.

Odd to say women choosing who to marry is the biggest liberation in history when slavery literally existed, like they couldn’t choose who to marry where and when to eat work or live they would be raped to get impregnated sometimes by the owner and everyone was split at will. Like am I the only one who immediately thought that

The "nuclear family" itself is a modern blip in history. Most of history and many places in the world still, children were raised in a large extended family or a village.

"It is better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war". Teach your son this and they will succeed. If not, they will struggle.

I get a kick out of big think videos that revolve around men/women, family, intersexual dynamics. It’s always a 10-15 minute video that ends with the problem being men’s fault

The comments on this one are epic. 👍🥰👍

I think this is crucial material, and nothing can replace creating healthy female and male patterns in growing children.

Kids need both parents,a parent who abandons you leaves a void in you that can never be filled.I KNOW

As someone in their late 20's I can't help but question the fundamental reason for getting married. It comes from a long history of doing it for economic, social and political reasons. Those aren't as relevant anymore. I essentially see it as "lets put up huge barriers and make it a superb mess should we ever decide to split up". Marrying for love doesn't hold much water either because like all feelings it comes and goes, so what then is primary cohesive force keeping you together ? I think the only logical solution is the commitment to your children together. I can't help but remember a comedian who wanted a divorce with his wife but they couldn't afford it so they saved up for a year. And within that year they fell back in love again and no longer wanted the divorce.

I consider myself a caring dad, and in my experience, women weaponize a fathers love to act like trash. The women in my life and the wives of my friends want to do the bare minimum to maintain a husband that will take care of the bills and the household and having a kid is the easiest way to trap a man. I am married now only to maintain access to my child. But i would never marry again. I have seen a man stay married to be close to their children and their wife cant even be consciousness enough to not fill thier spot in bed with shopping bags effectivly making the husband homeless sleeping in the car or in one case literally in the barn with the cows. Marriage is a test of personal determination to be with your children, thats it.

I will say that my kids prefer me as a caretaker. But depending on your value system some people may not accept that. For instance my wife can work harder than me but the kids prefer me. But she wouldn't want to be a part of that kind of relationship.

Thank you... ❤

We can finally choose what we want?

These perspectives have not taken into account the socioeconomic realities of the global south. As someone living in Africa, class distinctions have played a significant role in how we affirm our notions of family and marriage. The privileged class, which is predominantly represented by the diaspora that studied and worked abroad are more likely to find partners in the west and adopt the values mentioned in this video. This is due to the fact that the vast majority of people living in the global south are inherently religious and traditional. When the diaspora returns, they are often bemused by how notions of romance and family are strongly influenced by traditional tenets of marriage that place value on wealth, security and status. How someone makes you feel is often secondary. If Africa's population is going to represent 25% of the global population by 2050, it might be time to rethink this sexual revolution you so speak of.

This video was lacking in focus, and conceptual organization. Well spoken people were interviewed with no common thread. Perhaps there was one thread and that is that marriage is whatever anyone wants it to be, or nothing at all. With the title about children being the losers i would have thought that the question of the impact on children of the myriad of marriage and non marriage choices would be addressed.

I’ve never given much importance to marriage, until I married after a long (10yr) relationship: - Marriage is an opportunity to focus on something crucial in life, that is relationship, amongst all the noise of work, etc - Marriage represents that commitment to building a future together, which is beautiful but also practical. As a high earning woman, I know I will be at a loss when having children at least temporarily - I don’t care as biological and deep human wishes should come ahead of money, but it’s very helpful to know you are in a committed relationship when making those big decisions together (similarly to buying a house, move location, etc.) I did not strongly believe in marriage but now that I am married, I find our relationship so much more beautiful and stronger.

Let's first agree that the perspectives presented reflect the western trajectory in general, which is underpinned by a slew of recently and rapidly evolving norms and values. Much of the world is still very collectivist and hierarchical compared to the US, Australia, the UK, Canada and western Europe. This distinction matters if we want to talk about humanity at large, and the future of family, child rearing, and intimate relationships, because, although "the west" exports its cultural products far and wide, its influence doesn't necessarily extend very strongly to the cultural practices of marriage and family life elsewhere. That being said, it is clear that in many parts of the western world today, people are unsure of the best way to have healthy, stable, equitable and positive family lives. We receive mixed, even contradictory messages as to what we should want, and how to attain it. The format is unclear to everyone because it isn't well defined or agreed upon. The basic drives do not appear to have changed much, but the notions of purpose, roles, and needs have drastically blurred. In traditional, collectivist cultures, (the types not being discussed in the video) the purpose of marriage and children is clear for everyone, as defined by the dominant culture. Roles are well defined, and individual needs are dictated by them (roles). I think the difference between the concepts of roles and purpose, on the one hand, and individual needs, on the other, is an important distinction that is underdiscussed or overlooked. In fact, it may well be the overarching difference that the speakers in the video are not highlighting. Traditionally, across cultures, roles are fairly rigid, and their focus is on stability, community, unity, and shared values. Individual needs/wants are de-emphasized and subsumed by the collective, even ignored and suppressed, whereas, in the west it is very much the opposite, where the individual is a virtue and an end in his/her self, which sounds good in theory, and can be very good in practice, provided you subscribe to individualism (key point). The problem is we just don't know what to do with ourselves in this new way of being. We haven't understood or gotten good at navigating the "wild west world" (pun intended) of relationships and family structures, yet. Which means, until we do, we suffer. Children suffer. Men suffer. Women suffer. And society suffers with all manner of social and personal conundrums. Hopefully we can get better, be better, and do better for ourselves as individuals, our children, and our world. Increased learning, insight, education, kindness, and better cultural representations may get us closer.

New Model: Couples slow date 4-8 years to marriage. Once married they use an AI co-housing/co-parenting app to join a child-focused housing development where pods of 2 or 3 couples share common space with their children and raise them in a more collective reinvention of ‘extended family.’

It could be a hard, unchangeable reality of human nature at the macro level that there is a trade-off between stability and fairness/equality, that the utopia of both is just not possible.

As a youth leader and founder of the Emerging Leaders Network I proposed this exact hypothes to the Inter-Institutional Working Group on Youth in Washington D.C., which i participated in ca. 1998 - 2000. Members included people 10 to 30 years older than I heading multimillon dollas programs working with youthin development worlwide, from UNICEF, the Peace Corps, World Bank, IADB, OAS, and leading youth-focused foundations. Don't know if the hypothesis was taken seriously or not.

It's simple, people back in the day came together because of necessity and now they come together because of desire, so if the desires get fulfiled by artificial solutions like most things of modern Western societies, there will be no reason to get together and combine that with modern day lifestyle and priorities and cost of living and you have why most western countries are on a downhill with birthrates. Didn't a new study come out and show how intercourse between homo sapiens and neanderthals was the biggest reason for their extinction, we are heading that way again.

The economic funnel, the sexual revolution, the moral degradation, the criteria adopted by women post second wave feminism, mass online culture - it all leads to the end of both romantic idealism and pragmatic relationships, leaving a material profit motive driven sexual object based dystopia of useless relationships that could never improve the people that are in them

Guys, thanks for the video. BTW, we have here different accents and subs are very important to foreigners like me for understanding. These subtitles are out of sync by at least 1 sec from the speech, which makes them really hard to be read... please keep this in mind for the future.

Great video! The sound of the chalkboard whenever there’s a tittle is fastidious though 😅

I am still thinking that for me an alternative model should be discussed. There are many side-stories to the plot. I experienced father deficit as first hand when I grow up due to my parents divorce when I was 6. Now it is becoming a generational issue in entire society. I am not against empowering of women, just we cannot ignore the fact that parenting and love models are not working anymore. On the other had there is a wave of single fathers adopting orphans within society, is this how things turn out for me also on the long run? Yet I live in a society where even an idea of polycule drives people crazy. Life is getting weirder every single year, and we are not even able to realize the serious issues in front of us, letting so-called elected idiots teach us 'family' unit and enforce compulsory education to indoctrinate...

I have a stranger Family too, because my mother get out to buy sigaretes and never come back

I'm nearby 65 I feel guilty I never had children quite frankly I was terrified any child mine would suffer the pain of parental split like I suffered

A perspective from Ireland. Recent surveys indicate that 60% of young Irish between 18-30 are seriously considering emigrating despite a very good economy. Why? Because there is little affordable housing here. Worse yet, there are virtually NO rental properties in the country. NONE. FORGET ABOUT IT. That’s why estimates are that there are 500,000 adult children at home. Assume that if things were good, that number would be half. So, we are short north of 200,000 apartments in a country of 5 million. It’s the sheer STUPIDITY of the government that is driving those in their main reproductive years to leave the country. We will become a childless society. So, we don’t need to demonize the pill or the sexual liberation, which was more about freedom anyway. The most obvious reason is staring us right in the face. It’s about affordability, unless, of course, you want to pitch a tent in the Irish countryside and raise kids out there. When I was growing up in the 60’s in Chicago, I was the oldest of 5 and my mother didn’t work. But it was totally affordable to do that. You can forget that now.

I want to pose a different question instead of gender: What about single earning families? What are the effects of dual breadwinners?

Sorry, this whole talk was 100% surface, zero depth. It touched on some important topics and glossed over them or just lied. No modern marriage is not "equal", when a woman can cheat and then 99.999% assuredly walk away with full custody, onerous child support with zero supervision that it is spent on the children, zero enforcement of even minuscule visitations, and man-punishing spousal support to reward the lazy cheating spouse. That's not "equality" - it's a direct incentive to have a shitty marriage where female doesn't have to care about marriage succeding, not even one bit. Add in the social approval of divorcees.

Having more options is a good thing.

I have faith. We have new dynamics and new challenges to face and it's great to see a discussion taking place because that's the first step. Part of the solution is getting more men in teaching. Salaries are very low and only women are willing to take those roles because they have more holiday to look after their own children. If we increase salaries in teaching, it will entice more men to join and create more male role models for boys. Childcare also needs to be more affordable. It's not possible for most families to rely on one salary. Women are now working, men now need to help around the house more. So many marriages are affected by the unbalanced division of labour.

Actually this is all western society framing of society and family. Monogamy fostering stability and no or less child abuse is just western as well. In fact, polygamous and polyamorous societies have fostered all this. Now, we’re living in a different era of distraction, and these impact family life.

The problem is we've created a massive power imbalance. Women had the sexual power, and it was and is a very potent power at that. Men had the financial and social power, but we abused those powers so the scales had to be balanced there. The scales were never balanced in the realm of sexual power, it's still all belongs to the women, so now women have all the power and they just simply don't need men. Men have become cannon fodder. We are still the ones in the front-lines of the military conflicts (and yes one could argue military conflicts created by men - but men are also disproportionately the ones defending against the attackers). Men have been neutered of our power, but have kept all the same expectations. We are still expected to be the bread-winners in a way that women are not. We are still expected to go down with the ship while the women and children take the life-boats. All the expectations are there, but none of the power belongs to us anymore, and we are not getting the power back, so we need to change those expectations, but I just don't see that happening.

Family was never meant to be "mom and dad" and that's it. The nuclear family failed because that is just not enough people to make up the "village" the child needs. We supplemented this inadequacy with daycare, school, nannies, after school activities, etc. Now that people can no longer afford to pay for a village we don't have one. I think if you do the research you'll find that women who do have children rely on their sisters, close friends, and female relatives more now. That's the way it always should have been. I cannot understand why the person you're intimate with HAS to be the one you raise your kids with. Unless women aren't allowed to leave this equation tends to break down rather quickly; our grandmothers didn't want to stay in those marriages. They were stuck. Having more support for child rearing would be beneficial to everyone involved, even the elderly would benefit because they suffer from loneliness now. The way we have it set up we expect people from ages 25-50 to do ALL the work. They raise the kids, pay the taxes, go to work, manage the care of elders and children-it's too much.

The people who are trying to live moral lives are the ones who are losing, sadly.