Prequels suck, pre-prequel Jedi were better.

Even choosing to do nothing is still a choice, the grey Jedi don't push their will on other beings, some people never learn this

@@TheDrinkyDude True, they do choose to do nothing. But that still makes them apathetic.

@@LordDoom10 I feel that “grey Jedi” isn’t just apathetic, as it’s worth noting the order of force users that predated Sith and Jedi was neutral and yet not necessarily apathetic

@@tfan2222 No, they were Jedi. Dedicated to keeping Balance in the Force (which is what the light side is). The Sith are just a break away faction from that order who did not care for Balance in the Force, only what the Force could grant them in power. Meanwhile, Grey Jedi don't care about anything in the best case scenario. They refuse to maintain the Balance, believing they are already doing that by sitting on their asses. And those that do try to maintain Balance are ignorant to the naturally corrupting affects of the Dark Side, and slide into it.

She's written by Chris Avellone, who admitted to not liking black and white morality of the force.

I honestly hope so, it seems to be leaning in that direction what with Din basically caring for Grogu, being uncaring about the ridiculousness of having to kill the wielder of the Darksaber to be the next Mandalore, and basically is being deprogrammed about what the old idea of being a Mandalorian. He has it right when he calls Mandalore 'cursed'. It's a wasteland where the future of the Mandalorians has nearly been destroyed more than once. All over a planet that they can't even properly live on.

Yep. KOTOR 2 explicitly called that attitude out. On Korriban you experience a vision of your companions turning on eachother. If you pick a side you get allies. If you don't, "Apathy is death".

You know before I watched this I always just assumed that "Grey Jedi" or "Grey Force Users" were just force users that basically took a look at the Jedi and the Sith, and basically said "Screw you guys I'm doing my own thing". Basically Force Users that aren't part of any group or ones that are more neutral in the battles between Jedi and Sith, just people with the Force, but are living their own lives.

Jango Fett killed Jedi with his bare hands

RotJ did Boba Fett dirty, but he was actually portrayed as very smart and adept in Empire. He’s the only one who manages to track the Millennium Falcon and later when Luke lands and starts stalking through the halls of Bespin, Boba is the only one who notices and actively ambushes Luke a few seconds later. As I recall the plans for RotJ changed drastically many times, and Fett was kind of just discarded, but it’s clear from Empire and previous pre-Disney lore that Boba Fett was hardly inept.

​@@ashe274 it's not about being inept, it's that for all their skills and talents they still consistently end up on the wrong side of things. The Force can behave almost like a tangible "luckiness" around those that are sensitive to it, and it sure is bad luck that boba's jetpack malfunctions straight into the pit. Or that the storm trooper's guns can't shoot straight. Or that jango gets chumped like an idiot. Mandalorians are very used to taking risks in their violent lifestyles, and when you're rolling those dice against those that are known for cheating at those dice, you're gonna lose more often than you win. Worse, because it's violence, you'll usually not get a second chance. Even if they'd shown more competence and coolness on either Jango or Boba's part, ultimately their fate is the fate of most Mandalorians. Puppets of one group of force users, dying to another group of force users in pretty underwhelming ways.

​@@jowkeen9169 How does any of that matter in any way? Actually, first off, what do you mean "wrong side" of things? Morally? Yeah, sometimes. Being killed off in battle? News flash: EVERYONE dies off. No group consistently lasts in any specific iteration. The Old Republic died, and so did the New. The Jedi fell to Order 66. The Sith people were massacred by the Dark force users who then called themselves the Sith, who in turn destroyed themselves many times. The Confederacy was a minor footnote in history at the end of the day. Everyone dies off, and most of the galaxy is a pawn in some kind of conflict, even if by association. Most of all, none of that should dissuade anyone from liking them. I can't speak for the pig slop Disney calls lore, but the Old EU portrayed the Mando's as a broken, stubborn, and enduring people. It was inspirational, and enjoyable to see them interact with the galaxy at large as they strive forward. Lily can see them as a sad parallel to "tOxiC MAsCuLiNiTy" but that doesn't change anything about their story, or what other people can take away from it.

​@@ashe274 it matters because it's tragic. The Krogan realize that their martial culture is what got them xenophage'd, and what continues to break their species down further, and they are able to choose to change during the course of the games. The Spartans were given the choice to be the commanders and leaders of Philip of Macedon, and later Alexander the Great's forces. They chose to retire, having very nearly wiped themselves out preventing the Delian League from dominating all of Greece. The Mandalorians are a culture that oriented everything around the ability to fight for what you wanted to protect and destroy that which threatened it. That culture lost, incredibly badly, to an order of precog luck-knights that cultivated an absence of passions and placed great value on tranquility even during conflict. In the former two cases, the martial cultures realize that the martial dominance of their societies is destroying their societies, and that without change there can only be long suffering ending in total subordination or extinction. in the Mandalorian's case, they decide to continue to embrace the path of perpetual torment and subordination. They are proud to be the best tools money can buy, but that's the difference between the Mandalorian culture that killed itself on the Jedi and the Mandalorian culture that clings to life in the back alleys and deepest checkbooks. The Mandalorians that died in the war against the Jedi died on their own terms, for their own values. The Mandalorians after that die on the terms of others, for the values of others. That is the tragedy of the Mandalorians. The cannibalizing of the lives of the living in order to do what they think the long dead would want them to do. The things that were once virtues have been twisted to vices. They cannot stop indulging in the idea that their lifestyle is good, the idea that their predecessors had been living good lives, and therefore cannot escape it now that it's abusive/self-destructive. Their honor has been strip mined till only what is useful remains, the intense desire to "honor" a contract. Their tenacity has been taken advantage of so that they are more willing to put up with abuse or unsavory orders. It's been encouraged so that they're more able to follow through on tasks that are unreasonable. Their drive has been sharpened so that they only ever train the skills that make them useful tools to be used. They never use that drive to learn the skills that would allow them to stand on their own two feet. The skills that would allow the Mandalorians to be more independent in the long term, and begin restoring and healing one another. The cruelest tragedy of cultures that begin eating themselves this way is that the original cultures that the living aspire to honor would find these degenerated forms of themselves absolutely appalling. They deserve better, but for that they'd need to choose something better. Until then they'll continue to bleed and die not to improve the Mandalorian condition, but to preserve the perpetual servitude and suffering they confuse with honorable service.

Youch

Send a link of it

I especially like the turians as a martial culture rather than a warrior culture. They're rigid in their structure but disciplined and militaristic without being mindless warmongers, and know when peace and diplomacy is the best option.

@@tortoiseoflegends4466 Indeed. I've taken a bit of inspiration for the turians in my own martial culture of the Teyan Dominion - militaristic and proud, but they spend more time carrying it around than hitting people with it. After all, the key to diplomacy is speak politely, and make sure they can see just how much bigger your stick is compared to theirs.

Reducing any culture to just one thing or aspect is insane.

@@SuperPal-tr3go Exactly. Wrex and Bakara (Eve) realised that, and took steps to remedy it. That's what separates them from the likes of the Mandalorians.

@@tortoiseoflegends4466 And even then, from what I've gathered form the First Contact War, is that the Turians only engaged on the humans because a single admiral or general saw it as an opportunity to grab land for Turian soveringty. So kind of paints that there are also warmongering nuts even among such a rigid system. Just like how many Krogan are all "yeah we fucked up, lets fix it" there are still one or two who think that the new leadership is "going soft" and that fighting is the only way to regain past glories. Dang, I really need to play the original Mass Effect trilogy again.

Essentially, Mandalorians would advance technology as far as is necessary to conquer their homeworld, Mandalore. And then, as described, start murdering each other in an arms race that eventually made it uninhabitable. Best guess is that one of the clans encountered spacefaring explorers, captured them, learned how to use the technology, and went "WE CAN KILL SO MANY PEOPLE WITH THIS!"

Larry Niven came up with a decent explanation for this in his "Man-Kzin Wars" series in the 1980s. Kzinti are basically 9 foot tall, 300lbs anthropomorphic tigers with the brains of housecats. The instinct to kill and eat EVERYTHING they consider weaker than them is the driving force in their civilization. "Tech-savvy" Kzinti are comparatively human-sized paranoid nutcases who will kill everyone in an entire room the instant they feel threatened. They're the only ones in Kzin society desperate enough to reverse engineer, hand-copy, and give away or sell alien technology. It doesn't matter HOW the sky-demon magic works, it only matters THAT the magic works. The Kzin would never have discovered space flight on their own, but after another species made first contact, the most paranoid Kzin suddenly had access to laser guns and power armour - the bigger Kzin had to step up and stop the nerds from wiping out their entire species with cat-eared Gundams and nuclear bombs.

I would assume that doctors and scientists wouldn't be dishonorable. They would just also be fighters. If they have advanced technology those things must be important to them.

Deathwatch use medical droids. Sabine is an artist and an Engineer. There's the Beskar smith. Guess they expect everyone to be a warrior despite being good at other things.

I mean, mandalorians put great emphasis on their advanced weaponry and armour, so I doubt being someone who specialises in specifically aiding the ability to fight (weapons and armour) continue to fight (doctors) and get to fights (space travel) would be considered dishonourable

That wouldn't make sense because you can't 100% predict the future in star wars. If you knew 100% that someone would murder planets worth of people then killing them would probably be the right thing or I suppose you could plant a bomb in them so they can live out their "good guy" years and then execute them when they become evil?. Even in either of those cases if you kill them then wouldn't that mean it's not 100% set in stone since you just changed the future, and if the future is changeable, couldn't you find a way to keep them from becoming that evil without killing them?

Well darrh nilulis (probably butchered the name) just wanted to feed on planets to satisfy his own hunger and Darth Revan only turned to the dark and created a sith empire to force the Republic to cha ge for the good of the galaxy and there was this one sith in legends who's name I can't remember but he basically only cared a out gaining knowledge

@@ninjycoon Well, there can also be arrogance involved as well--something the Jedi tend to fall into. Imagine an "evil" Jedi who believes they can see the future, and their own arrogance prevents them from realizing that it's just not the case.

In the Legends universe there is a number if 'evil' Jedi, such as Dark Woman and the Jedi seers who killed their own apprentices due to them having a vision of them falling to the dark side or something along those lines. But yeah, I agree, I'd love them to do a 'evil' Jedi or 'good' Sith

I mean Darth Caedus is basically the jedi you just described. Saw a vision of his daughter falling, started an armada to make it not happen, and then things got out of hand. And I believe he succeeded in changing that vision, but it has been a while since I read these stories.

What if both choices are awful?

@@TheDrinkyDude you either pick one of them, or stop bragging about having not picked a side to gain the moral high ground. there's always a choice in these situations that'll always be preferable-- it's your morals (or a lack thereof) that might drive one to pick the middle ground. in truth, no situation is so lacking in nuance that both sides are of equal negative influence, lest you become an inactive character in a story- and inactive characters, such as the bendu or the watchers from marvel, are either mocked consistently for their uselessness or finally pushed to do something. taking a middle ground is complacency, because you're admitting to letting something horrible happen either way bc you couldn't make the hard call. the quote "with great power comes great responsibility" is about inaction-- to stop being a centrist and doing nothing, and to start saving lives to make right the wrongs that you committed, spider-man. yes, it's also about being responsible with your gifts, but the point im getting at is that centrism (taking some "middle ground") means you'll be complacent in death and destruction and injustice and do nothing about it over some moral posturing. so pick a side!

@@TheDrinkyDude You choose the lesser evil. However, this is presuming there’s only 2 choices, which is rarely the case.

wasn't that always it's hat? EU is full with Mandalorians adopting people into their ranks

@@goodmind4940 The phrase 'They're a culture, not a race' springs to mind with this

@@goodmind4940 A lot of the new folks who got on board after Disney took over (read: people who started reading, watching, or playing star wars in the last 8 or so years) might never have gotten that part about the Mandos.

If I remember correctly, That's the route that was taken with legends mandalorians. When Boba became Mand'alor He put aside his differences, and had them work as double agents. Publicly siding with the Yuzong Vong, while secretly sabatoging and aiding the new republic. After that I think they became like a psuedo intergalactic police for the new republic.

Hey, that's what Boba did! (Well, gangster instead of a knight, but gangs as a concept did start out as an organization that protects the weak, not unlike knights and samurai that both the jedi and mandalorians greatly take inspiration from)

I mean, she outright tells/shows you her position and where on the force meter she used to be too. Maybe she doesn't say every detail, but she is honest with you on where she stands.

@@ArcNine9Angel Not really? She does say she used to be a sith lord, and was betrayed by Sion and Nihlus. But she constantly masks her true nature from the player until she kills the Jedi council. The character menu even demonstrates this by turning her from a grey alignment to 100% dark side shortly beforehand. Kreia might not hide her background from the player, but she constantly manipulates them and attempts to 'teach' them her dogmatic view of life and the force. She's a sith lord through and through to the point that she can't even conceive of the possibility that giving a beggar some credits has more outcomes than them being mugged by someome else after.

@@FlipDarkFuture She masks herself because she fears rejection by revealing too much to soon, she wanted the exile to be better than her and her students but by going and showing her "true self" she would have pushed a lightsided exile away and excited a darksided one too much to remain critically of all. She is not a Sith, she left both sides behind (fun fact: Use force sight on her and you see she is around 70% darkside - not full like Nihilus) and essentially wanted the Echo of Malachor to either remain and eventually become too loud for the force to form any more connection with others thuse negating its will or if she can't at least make sure the next generation isn't as dogmatic narrow-minded as the current one. She is bitter, and her views are flawed but its wrong to just scoff it of as "just another Sith-lord"

@@leiferikson850 Again, I'm not talking about gameplay mechanics in regards to her being a sith lord through and through. This whole video was about how the binary nature of KOTOR's morality system is one of the reasons why grey jedi were even a fandom concept to begin with. I'm talking about her actions concerning morality in the game itself. Her philosophy is thoroughly sith. These are quotes of hers. ""I...? Do you think I seek the death of all living things? There is no victory in such things. I do not want to win our war like this, little Jedi. When I win, I wish it to be because I was right, my teachings true." She claims there is no victory in seeking the death of everything, but still wishes to win by being 'right'. "If you seek to aid everyone that suffers in the galaxy, you will only weaken yourself and weaken them. It is the internal struggles, when fought and won on their own, that yield the strongest rewards. You stole that struggle from them, cheapened it. If you care for others, then dispense with pity and sacrifice and recognize the value in letting them fight their own battles. And when they triumph, they will be even stronger for the victory." And here she believes in the useless concept of 'might makes right' in that charity and mercy are acts that cheapen the struggles of others. This ignores that in a lot of cases, it is outright apathetic to believe this when your charity and mercy can actively help others become stronger.

@@FlipDarkFuture I can see your point, the problem is that alot of her statements are very general and thus could be applied to both sides. An example about her charity/generousity warning: Imagine you would be a parent and your child struggles in math. Do you do their homework for them? It would be very kind but if you do it all the time, they will learn nothing and when the exam comes they won't pass. Meanwhile, the math you do for them is no challenge at all so you don't "grow" / learn anything new from it. "If you care for others, then dispense with pity and sacrifice and recognize the value in letting them fight their own battles" A kind act that wastes your time and denies your child the success of learning and understanding. You can interpret it as you can pamper other people and spoil them via your help. Of course, this is NOT counting for everything. There are enough people with serious problems that need help. Afaik she never scolds you for aiding those who are clearly too weak to help themselves / need dire help.

Interestingly, Barriss Offee was exactly correct about the state of the Jedi Order, regardless of the actions she took as a result of this knowledge. Which she said to the Sith Lord exploiting it (Palpatine), his future servants (Temple Guard/Grand Inquisitor & Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader), and several members of the Jedi Council. Of course, the Council did nothing about it, and yet another opportunity to pull the Jedi Order out of it's nosedive only pushed Anakin closer to the brink.

Whether you agree with the light = good, and dark = bad. Or what the old approach it's still dumb not to make a decision.

This entire video is operating on the premise of "Disney's retcon of the Dark Side is stupid and dumb."

@@LilianOrchard what retcon?

I've got 700GB of footage from Legendary Edition that says I just might

copyplays.tumblr.com/

Kk, I read "Space Sherks" as "Space Shreks" and now I just picture a horde of angy Sith Shreks charging at jedi in a stupid way, and it makes me wanna have a giggle fit!😆

The only justification I remember from warhammer was the "No faction is evil there's only better one's" wich makes sense since all races in warhammer have to do some heinous shit just to avoid extinción so the normal set of rights and wrongs don't apply after all there's only necesitys and a drive to survive. Honestly thats the only reasonable justification for the warhammer race's unless you're a goodie two shoe's Tau.

I recorded it once, and edited out a single flub

@@LilianOrchard Impressive. It would have taken me at least ten tries, but then again I'm pretty bad at talking.

@@LilianOrchard Speaking of which what do you think of the Vultrimte Culture in Invincble Comics, in the end they do fix themselves thanks to mark grayson.

Why do you have no likes when that is probably the funniest joke here?

This operates on the premise that Jedi and Sith are completely incapable of being sane. See I want the same thing you do, I just recognize that there doesn't need to be a separate order to do it. The two we have can fit that mold easily.

@@LilianOrchard fair point

Sooo, jedi?

Well, pre-prequel jedi, before George Lucas ruined them.

The stuff in clone wars is pretty interesting, aside from Satine’s fridging. There are some episodes that don’t even have the warrior mandalorians

overrated races usually get defeated by overated characters

​@@josemontalvomelendez5642 How is Revan overrated?

@@BackwardsMMA like lily said in one of her other videos he's a blank slate character that get elevated to near God hood status and every one just gushes about how cool he when his achievements kinda boil down to become a dark jedi( not even going full sith), ignore the red tape that the old republic is mired in to solve the mandalorian problem ( see anakin during the clonewars ) then refusing to take responsibility for his genocide and betrayals resulting in wiping his own memory to not deal with it. then being an idiot about vitiate then some how splitting himself into a lightside wilting flower pacifist that refuses to help in fixing the mess He himself started and a darkside version of himself thar believes his own hype. hell his force abilities aren't even his best attributes in canon since his gf kicked his ass and vitiate tortured his stupid ass for YEARS aswell as he's not masters both sides he just dabled in the appropriate side for his faction his best attributes canonical was his supposed charisma. but even then that's bullshit cuz his level of charisma depends on the player basically he's a self incert character elevated to lore character banking on nostalgia from kotor players remembering their oc

@@BackwardsMMA tldr he's exactly the kind 9f characters lily rails against inbthis video during the gray jedi portion

@@josemontalvomelendez5642 Revan isn't that strong compared to the future Sith or Jedi, ascended to godhood is a major stretch, you can say Sidious and Yoda are stronger than him. As you said, he loses to Vitiate on the regular, and the only reason he's not a lightweight is because he's stronger than Nihilus who is also not that strong, it only applies to his time period. Hell, Darth Malek is more skilled with a blade and easily outsmarted Revan. He hasn't ascended to godhood, if anything saying that would also be giving him way more hype than he truly deserve. The only reason he's liked among fans is his design, no one likes him because he's an interesting character or because he's super duper strong.

I wrote a book like that once

Yes but without the cool powers

@@wisdommanari6701 mind you the coolest of said powers needs basically a certain amount of monkey midoclorians sparked by righteous anger which second fiddle was probably very very lucky to get, while his son had an easier time due to his hybrid nature

minor edits for grammar because auto correct is dumb

We don’t *want* that

Why is Boba being strong and actually contributing to Jacen's defeat bad? Because the Mandos are supposed to be dumb losers? I remember reading those passages about Jaina learning some tricks from him, how the force isn't always the way to win a fight. It's fine to dislike the Mando's stoic and destructive warrior culture. But being mad about them getting a spot in the story just comes off as petty. Especially since you say that readers have the wrong perception of Mandalorians while it is the exact perception the writer was going for.

@@MrSchnorkel It's not bad that Boba was a part of Jacen's defeat, it's that Traviss went out of her way to portray the Mandolorians as so much better and smarter than the Jedi involved. To the point that the other writers on Legacy of the Force had to bring in Shatterpoint as a technique to give the Jedi a fighting chance against all the beskar.

​@@goldencyclone4984 Yeah, that's still what I'm adressing. If a Jedi needs to defeat another Jedi, learning some unconventional tactics from an outsider seems like a fine way to do it. And learning something new requires someone to first admit that they don't know everything already. You might even call that character development. But no, how dare a Mandalorian win against a Jedi once or twice. And how dare the Jedi actually have to get new weapons and techniques (or whatever this Shatterpoint is) in order to beat the Mandalorians. That's just the writer "going out of her way" to do Star Wars wrong and to attack you personally. The Jedi weren't top dog for once. Stop being so petty and deal with it.

@@MrSchnorkel Did you actually read Legacy of the Force? My issue isn't the fact that Jaina went to Boba. My issue is the way things were framed in the story. It was not framed as "Jaina needs help so she seeks out an alternative point of view." It was framed as "Jaina is weak and has to beg Boba to even consider helping a lowly pathetic Jedi." That is my problem. Dragging a normally very confident and intelligent female character down to suck off the Mandos. Traviss has a history of doing this to The Warrior Culture TM, and her work on the Halo EU novels is lambasted by that fan base for the same reasons.

​@@goldencyclone4984 How are those two quotes you mention actually any different from each other, save for intensity? Yes, if Jaina just visits Boba for a little chat on fighting techniques the plot will be advanced, but by making it more dramatic the high stakes of her quest are communicated as well. Good writers know better than to make the challenges for their protagonist shallow and boring. And sometimes that means the protagonist has to take a hard loss. Maybe even swallow their pride. If you don't want Jaina to be a Mary Sue then she shouldn't be exempt from this. I remember Boba landing a surprise sucker punch on Jaina on her first day of training just to show her that she can't foresee everything with the force. I also remember how she almost cut him in half with her lightsaber in a reflex, with only his beskar armor saving him. Later on, Boba almost beat her to death in a training match, only ceasing his assault because she stopped fighting back. Yeah, this shocked me as well. I thought Jedi could always win against something so basic as brute force. But this "unthinking force-resistant battle rush" ability is exactly what Jaina learned from Boba. And she had to *ask* for this training, had to *totally* lose and be absolutely *helpless* before she could become stronger. All of this is an example of character development. Complaining that it's too rough on the character is not an argument against this practice of writing. But here's where we come to the core of the matter. You mention dragging a confident and intelligent *female* character down below others. Now it doesn't matter that she's a *Jedi*, but more importantly a *woman*. That's what this is all about, right? Jaina shouldn't be weaker than some stupid mandalorian loser *man*, yeah? This is the real problem to you, as you say. No normally strong female character should have a moment of weakness, especially in front of a male character. You hate that Traviss sometimes includes these moments in her works. You hate these "toxically masculine" warrior cultures she writes about. Can you seriously say that your argument is not ideological in nature? To quote your very first sentence in this thread: "I partially blame some of the EU writers for the perception around the Mandos". Why is it wrong that people think the Mandos are strong when they are written as being exactly that? You are trying to control the narrative so that nobody thinks warrior cultures have anything positive to them. Likewise, you are trying to control the narrative saying that no woman is ever inferior to any man even for a single moment. Do you think everything is political? Are you trying to fight a culture war here? Come on, be honest.

On writers of TCW, because she survives in EU

@@goodmind4940 yeah, those are the people I listed, and Golden, but we don’t know who specifically among them made that decision

if you're raised mando, and follow the resol'nare, you're mando. period. none of this bloodline shit. you could be a fucking sapient rancor capable of speech, and if you adhere to the resol'nare (and wear armor, somehow, i guess) you're a mando. period.

Call me when they win a war

@@wisdommanari6701 You're such a child, crying about how your fantasy faction is so much better because you completely missed the point of my arguments. Call me when you grow up.

@@MrSchnorkel They win any wars yet? Why is there a warrior race full of people who don't win wars? Mandos are almost always depicted as bad guys. Hey, you wanna purge toxic masculinity out of the mandos? That's not hard. Focus less on the Badass Warrior shit and more on the caring about a family and working with one another part. Maybe there's a big threat, and then they become badass warriors. Then they go back to doing family stuff - raising the kids, teaching them how to shoot a gun, how to use a compass, how to ask out their crush, how to drive a speeder or fly a ship, how to go into hyperspace. There's a plethora of opportunities for some wholesome, non-toxic character who is incredibly straightforward, personally aggressive, honorable, and very decent generally speaking. Why is this character like this? Oh, they're a mando. Their entire attitude is centered around maybe helping out their family. Perhaps they get shafted by fate, and the Force decides to throw four or five people into a terrible situation, and these people almost become a kind of family. Perhaps it's the Mando who is the heart of this family, who actively goes out of his or her way to help out his family, but cares *only* about his new family. Perhaps they're very defensive, and become a raging force of nature. Perhaps they pursue their goals relentlessly, not really worrying about the goal so much as the way TO the goal. You see? That's a non-toxic character, who is still Mandalorian. No toxic masculinity here, just a wholesome character.

@@ThatCamel104 isn't that basically the Fetts and Din Djarin? (Well, the latter had to learn that, but he _is_ from a cult)