Braking in The Turn Explained

Рет қаралды 21,333

Күн бұрын

Braking in the turn is one of the first things you'll learn when you come to Team O'Neil for a rally school. We use this technique to transfer weight from of the rear end of the car to the front end of the car to cure understeer and create oversteer. Team O'Neil chief operations officer, Travis Hanson, takes to the skidpad to demonstrate braking in the turn and talk about why we use it for loose surface driving.
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Пікірлер: 59

@ACitizenOfOurWorld 3 жыл бұрын

Wow one of the best lessons on this subject I've ever seen. Bring this guy (Travis) back for more demonstrations!

@DatPenguin97 3 жыл бұрын

This technique actually helped me out once where I was at a roundabout in heavy rain ( just started, surface was suddenly wet) and I was about to understeer into a field (I was alone as well, came in a bit too hot for my tyres back then). Also I once trained that in my first car on a friend's private property (in rain as well, 105hp, 1000kilos, 185s all around, hydraulic steering+ only ABS can be a riot), it's fun and it teaches you car control. I recommend everyone tries this in a safe environment

@jjeeqq Жыл бұрын

I dont think it was braking which helped, brakes doesn't work when its water slide, you were just lucky to get that grip back.

@DatPenguin97 Жыл бұрын

@@jjeeqq had that situation not just once, couldn't have been luck, especially when I practiced it (I did that in heavy rain) It also wasn't aquaplaning 😅

@jjeeqq Жыл бұрын

I dont see how it would work if there is no contact between tires and road

@DatPenguin97 Жыл бұрын

@@jjeeqq there is. Aquaplaning is if you don't have contact and are just swimming. A wet road isn't that 😅

@jjeeqq Жыл бұрын

@@DatPenguin97 i don't think you had speed to get to aquaplaining then if tires had contact with road. When aquaplaining happens tires get off ground and above water, any pedal or wheel turning at that point is extreme dangerous, when you get grip again. "Aquaplaning, or hydroplaning, is what happens when water builds up in front of your tyres at a faster rate than it can be displaced. When this happens, water forms a barrier between the tread of the tyre and the road, leaving the vehicle unresponsive to steering, braking, or accelerating."

@harrisonmorin616 3 жыл бұрын

Wooohooo keep up the great stuff guys! Appreciate yall so much!!

@bobca2 3 жыл бұрын

Great exercise & lesson...loved it during my winter driving class, on snow, but mostly ice...fun & highly instructive.

@TurboLag92 3 жыл бұрын

That was some awesome knowledge transfer, you guys are great!

@ohitstarik 3 жыл бұрын

I like this guy. Great teacher, and great demonstration. Kept all other variables out and demonstrated the one thing we were changing independently. Great stuff.

@abdullahkeremkoseoglu2200 Жыл бұрын

finaly, found the video i was looking for. practically nobody showed this method. thanks team o' neal

@sajanpauljose4532 3 жыл бұрын

Where is Wyatt

@wireweelz 3 жыл бұрын

Very useful on asphalt mountain passes too.

@sajanpauljose4532 3 жыл бұрын

My name is Sajan Paul Jose.Iam a 15 yrs old. Regular Spectator of your videos

@mattmatt9971 3 жыл бұрын

awesome explanation

@melody3741 Жыл бұрын

You can use a sort of combination of this and trailbraking to really nail the braking down to the last millisecond on extremely sharp corners by using this to do the last bit of slowing down and also to rotate the car simultaneously

@ryanj116 3 жыл бұрын

This seems like a pretty advanced technique. It’s pretty much the opposite of the basics most people are taught. Like trailbraking, the wrong application of this could overtax the front tires and end up with understeer. Don’t go trying this unless you have a good understanding and ability to weight transfer.

@kdh6387 3 жыл бұрын

Yea, brakes taking away lateral grip+too much steering input under panic is gonna make the slip angle get outta hand. I hate that dreaded sound of front outer tire dragging... I like to use it with quick, short taps, to make the head turn in.

@melody3741 Жыл бұрын

I think once you have mastered throttle and brake control well then this is usable and certainly worth trying in a safe environment. If someone has never done this before they aren’t gonna go enter a rally then try it for the first time.

@melody3741 Жыл бұрын

Also, the throttle application is important here and helps fight the understeer, because it doesn’t let the wheels lock up as easily since they are driven. So it ends up with kinda the same effect as handbrake where the rear loses grip but the front keeps it. Ime if you do enough throttle you don’t even have to worry about understeer. Edit: obviously this is in a fwd car

@jchrizzy6995 3 жыл бұрын

I'm glad to see people are finally warming to other people besides Wyatt 😂 all the other guys have been great too - this guy Travis is really good and I remember him from some older vids

@asmith7094 Жыл бұрын

I confused this technique with breaking in the turn which is what my old tie rods did when I gave this a whirl on the asphalt in my old Mercedes

@strixt 3 жыл бұрын

"It's amazing how many drivers, even at the Formula One level, think that the brakes are for slowing the car down."

@SpeedProductions4 Жыл бұрын

They are for braking🤡

@JuiceyBeverage Жыл бұрын

@@SpeedProductions4 He meant that brakes are often used to just slow down but their are other use cases

@bobsanders9500 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Travis. Do your Fiestas have the factory standard "crossover" brake line set up? From memory, everything is "factory" except the brake pads. One would assume a brake bias system would give you better control when braking in the turn?

@Teamoneilrally 3 жыл бұрын

In terms of braking , our Fiestas are fully stock except we remove the power brake system and throw in some Hawk brake pads. An adjustable brake bias would certainly allow you to choose between different behaviors under braking. We like to keep our cars close to stock for added training value but certainly on a full on stage rally build a brake bias switch can be very useful.

@GravelGuerrilla 2 жыл бұрын

Its so crazy how different pavement is to dirt. Really crazy.

@henryswan1374 Жыл бұрын

hi i have a couple of questions is this technique useful for 4WD cars? i can imagine that transfer to the front would still be helpful, but not sure if you lock up the rear tires, wouldn't that mean you're completely slipping the clutch?

@giannisweightlifting3996 3 жыл бұрын

what about steering angle when car starts to oversteer? u need to countersteer or fornt tires pull you straight? Also, is a technique that can be used on a gripped surface? road/track/ashpalt?

@Teamoneilrally 3 жыл бұрын

Depends on much the car starts to slide... If you have a lot of oversteer then absolutely counter steer as much as you need. However, if you only have a little bit of oversteer, straightening the wheel and releasing the brake (maybe adding some more throttle depending on the vehicle type) is enough of a weight transfer to the rear of the car to cause the car to straighten up.

@igorffranco 3 жыл бұрын

You ca use this ate any car? I mean on a fwd, for exemple, i wold be helpfull?

@Teamoneilrally 3 жыл бұрын

Braking in the turn does work in all vehicle types, provided you are on a loose surface and going the right speed for the corner. It is a good technique to use in a front or all wheel drive car, we typically use other braking techniques in rear wheel drive and high center of gravity vehicles but it does work in those as well. There are slight variations in the technique for different vehicle types. In a front wheel drive car, you use steady throttle while you turn the wheel and add brake pressure. In other vehicle configurations, you would lift off the gas then turn and add brake.

@beastman.330 3 жыл бұрын

Your channel can grow big if you do car review's by putting them on the rally stage .

@Lajki 3 жыл бұрын

How about rear wheel drive car?

@Teamoneilrally 3 жыл бұрын

It does work in rear wheel drive but we don't typically do it because other techniques such as trail braking usually work much better in these vehicles. Braking in the turn is used more frequently in front and all wheel drive vehicles.

@mgt864 3 жыл бұрын

Does this technique also work for rear wheel drive?

@MrDieselakias 3 жыл бұрын

yes

@Teamoneilrally 3 жыл бұрын

It does but we typically don't do it a lot in rear wheel drive vehicles in favor of other braking techniques such as trail braking. We use it a lot more in front and all wheel drive platforms.

@yourock5839 3 жыл бұрын

turn on subtitles

@harrisonmorin616 3 жыл бұрын

Question: is there an easy way to remember which is which (under and over steer)

@carlovergts02 3 жыл бұрын

Understeer is basically when the car is going outside despite you wanting to go inside. Oversteer is vise versa

@_RobertS 3 жыл бұрын

If you ask the car to do a certain amount of steering (by turning the steering wheel) and it delivers under that target (as in less than asked for) it is understeering. If the car delivers more steering than asked for, or over the target, it is oversteering. Easy :)

@ryanj116 3 жыл бұрын

understeer= car turns less than you steered for, oversteer = car turns more than you steered for

@kdh6387 3 жыл бұрын

Understeer - Car goes straight outta corner Oversteer - Car spins out

@harrisonmorin616 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks guys 🧐. now what's everybody driving?

@user-yk1cw8im4h 3 жыл бұрын

Can you teach drifting

@Teamoneilrally 3 жыл бұрын

We have some drift content! Please feel free to check it out, hope you enjoy! Handbrake initiation: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pJZ6p8qBtb-4h4E.html Clutch kicking: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jpORdKlklq_NpIE.html

@metagen77 3 жыл бұрын

@@Teamoneilrally Pendulum turn too! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nJt5dcekscWvhH0.html

@drivethelightning 2 жыл бұрын

I always thought this was trail braking 🤦‍♂️

@shadowgaming6660 3 жыл бұрын

Stop it with the bicycle helmets

@mikaelgaiason688 3 жыл бұрын

So... Adding load to front tires that are pushing because they're already overloaded fixes the problem? lmao. It's a fwd car... The engine is pushing through the front brakes and you're doing the same thing as tugging the handbrake, just with you feet

@Teamoneilrally 3 жыл бұрын

Braking in the turn serves a different purpose than a handbrake turn. A hand brake turn causes the car to rotate because the of the loss of grip at rear from the rear wheels locking up. Braking in the turn rotates the car using weight transfer. The understeer is caused by the traction circle of the front tires being overwhelmed by the inputs. By adding brake pressure, it transfers weight off the rear and onto the front which compresses the front suspension and pushes down on the front tires. This expands the contact patch of the front tires and gives them more grip allowing the car to rotate.

@mikaelgaiason688 3 жыл бұрын

@@Teamoneilrally So would you say that fr and mr cars will rotate the same in the same situation?

@metagen77 3 жыл бұрын

@@mikaelgaiason688 There is an old video about left foot braking, they use all kinds, awd rwd fwd it always works.