Yes, thank *you* for shouting out Technology Connections, which CR *did not* do in this video.

Indeed, it's good that Alec made the video, raised awareness and has gotten the necessary attention with it to have the issue addressed. And let's hope that manufacturers have learned their lesson as according to the written CR article, this isn't the first time, but the i3 also has had this issue in the past. I'm an Ioniq 6 owner myself, in Europe though, and fortunately, my car has the expected behavior, but I was concerned for the first few days after that video.

Very strange that the article came out a few weeks after the video and this over a month later and they don't acknowledge it. The CR article seems too coincidental to not have been influenced by it. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/i5aJipqpnruZhIU.html

@@LonceyMills What is your proof that CR was informed that was the source of the question? Also, if Alec noticed it, how did you arrive at certainty that CR didn't also, in the course of evaluating vehicles also arrive at this conclusion?

The Simpsons did it first. Sorry, I meant to say The Technology Connections did it first, as usual.

Preferably via fiberoptics visible in the rear-view mirror like old Cadillacs from the '70s-90s, to give an indication of the actual function of each brake light.

Very true - this reminds me of when a new law was passed to require EVs to make noise at low speeds. The legislation should have required all vehicles to emit a minimum amount of noise at low speeds. Many modern ICE cars make very little noise at low speeds, and now they make less noise than EVs.

So, you're saying it hasn't been an issue since the dawn of the automobile but it is now?

@@tim3172 yup, strange how it only becomes a problem with EVs doing it and not other vehicles using "engine braking"...isn't that conveeeenient

They said all the other EVs they tested performed as expected.

As much as they can, they do _not_ want to enunciate “Tesla” unless it’s in a negative light.

Yeah. Well, I did a little research on that one, since I have a Model 3 and wondered about that. Apparently, the brake lights come on just fine with the Tesla. I think CR does itself a disfavor for not uttering the name Tesla, ever, regardless of their feelings about you-know-who. I might have the same feelings about you-know-musk . . . but I bought a Tesla for a variety of reasons, primarily instant access to the Supercharger network. No deals-in-the-making, no converters involved, just a right-now way to conveniently charge your car at thousands of locations.@@altosack

I've come close to rear ending at least a couple teslas (my parents as well) because they decelerate a lot without turning on their brake lights. I don't know if CR found anything with Teslas not putting their brake lights on, but I've certainly delt with situations where a tesla in front of me is slowing down at a quite significant rate, without their brake lights turning on. Also I'm glad AEB can detect slowing cars whether their brake lights are on or off. It has warned me a couple times about a Tesla slowing down in front of me, without brake lights on.

Pretty glad I didn't end up buying an Ioniq 5 last year with this issue and the ICCU - loss of power/mobility issue happening. What a shitshow.

Where did you keep your right foot while downshifting?

@@nickbien Tesla lights in general are too small/dim. I was on I-66 a couple months ago during a bad thunderstorm. There was a Tesla in the line of traffic and it took real focus to not lose it because they kept changing lanes, essentially asking to be hit. They had their lights on, but they were so small/dim it disappeared between wiper swipes. Not good with a dark grey vehicle that is essentially the same color as a wet road.

You beat me to it, I also thought before EV's that it would be nice to have a yellow light when taking you foot off the gas pedal to show you're slowing and maybe about to apply the brakes. Also thought of blinking brake lights instead of yellow but that may be misunderstand as someone using the hazard lights. Never thought of having a green light, but that's not a bad idea either. Smart thinking (I think).

@@samconnecticut1485 I'd also like to see traffic lights offer the same courtesy, to tell you how much time is left on the green. That way, we give drivers more information and clear the dilemma zone. Paint a lateral yellow line on the road, and if you are before that yellow line, then slow down for a yellow. If you are after that yellow line, speed up for a yellow.

cr did not discover this

Stopped cars with brake lights on are rear ended all the time, CR only has an issue when it is EVs why because their paying ownership Ford foundation wants to slow down EV adoption as they cannot make EVs at a profit. Why were manual transmission autos not a subject of CRs reports for the last 100 years? Are cars parked on the side of the road without lights not an issue? As a driver it is up to you to see these potential issues, yet when Tesla is trying to automate these issues CR makes defeat devices and manipulates how to crawl in the backseat when everyone with a brain knew that car had been driven manually by drunks.

My Forester has adaptive cruise. The car illustration in the IP shows the tail lights and they turn on with the brake lights the same as the door logo illuminates when a door is opened.

On my Acura, the stop lights remain illuminated when removing my foot from the brake using the auto brake hold.

What is a 'break light" and a "break paddle"? Are we talking about broken brake lights on a paddle ship?

That's a pretty neat solution but I feel like implementing a method that relies on a toxic chemical that's hard to clean if it were damaged may be the thing that they use as for a reason why they haven't

If I need to slow down any faster than the natural rate of coasting to avoid crashing in to you, I damn well better see your brake lights come on. I don't care what your car does to slow itself down. If it is doing anything to actively slow down, the brake lights should illuminate.

Absolutely, praise sky fairy.

If your car slows down any faster than the natural rate of passive slow-down, it should be required to illuminate the brake lights. If your car subtracts energy from the kinetic + potential energy of the car, it should illuminate the brake lights. The reason for the slow down should not matter. We need to communicate effectively with the driver behind us.

It works as expected, brake lights come on once you start to decelerate at that appropriate level.

@@cardude990 What standard does Tesla follow for slow-down rates on an uphill, and steady-regen on a downhill? Does Tesla illuminate the brake lights if an uphill is the reason for a slow-down? Does it illuminate the brake lights if you regen to maintain a steady speed on a downhill?

The brake lights won't (and should not) come on just from going up a hill because of deceleration. This is a phenomenon that is hard to describe/understand without driving the cars themselves. I highly recommend the Technology connections video on the subject that sparked this. In traditional vehicles, you press the gas to accelerate, the brake to slow down, and you can coast without pressing either. If you let off the gas, you will get a bit of idle power and creep forward. In EVs, you usually will get no creep and will only move when you press the accelerator. Gas means go, brake means slow, and you can sit still without your foot on the brake and not be moving. Should you have the brake lights come on at an intersection when you are stopped or in traffic if stopped when you aren't moving but aren't pressing the service brake? Right now that is not required by law. But most drivers, out of habit with ICE, rest their foot on the brake to keep a car from moving. One pedal doesn't require that and actually gets you out of that habit. Now the one pedal mode basically allows one to use the accelerator to control both the speeding up and the regen braking. It becomes more of a 'speed' pedal and less of an accelerator. If you press it halfway down you will moderayly accelerate to like 40-45 mph. If you let off the pedal and only have it 10% depressed, you will start to slow down pretty aggressively and will slow to say 15-20. You can do this very aggressively by adjusting the level of regen braking the system uses. As long as your foot is on the accelerator pedal in a Kia/Hyundai/genesis that isn't the new EV6 or the new Niro EV, you can slow down and come to a complete stop from 45mph in less than a 300-400 hundred yards without touching the brakes and without the brake lights coming on. Teslas don't do that, because they're programmed to monitor how fast a car is slowing down and turn on the brake lights. The new Chevy Bolt doesn't do that because the aggressive Regen braking on the steering wheel and the one pedal mode are programmed to turn on the brakes when the car is being slowed down by the electric drive Regen braking. This is a setting that Kia/Hyundai need to adjust because if you have iPedal you shouldn't be able to slow down the car and 'slam on' regen braking without the car behind you knowing what is happening.

It sounds like you have the wrong idea about what an accelerometer does. Incline has nothing to do with it. Just acceleration.

@Quasarnova1, You can't go up a hill without "accelerating". If you brake while going down a hill, the car is "decelerating" as compared to any previous moment.

@@java97 If you use an accelerometer to determine when the car is braking, and you are using regenerative braking to maintain a steady speed going down a hill, the brake lights would fail to come on. I agree that the deceleration rate should be the standard at least for the flat road case, but indeed it should have some nuance to figure out exactly what needs to happen. The standard should be that any time you are SUBTRACTING energy from the car's mechanical energy, that the brake lights should illuminate. It shouldn't be that difficult to figure out when an EV is subtracting energy, whether it is by regen braking or standard braking.

Hybrids have comparatively-smaller electric motors which do not provide nearly the effective braking force when they're functioning as generators.

Your ICE car should be held to the same standard. If I need to slow down any faster than the natural rate of coasting to avoid crashing in to you, I damn well better see your brake lights come on. Anything else is a lawsuit waiting to happen. I don't care if you are downshifting, engine braking, using the emergency brake, or regenerating.

It is now an issue, because it happens a lot more that people use other means than a brake to slow down. A very select few of drivers even knew how to slow down by down-shifting, and it was less common that it would cause an accident. If I need to slow down any faster than the natural rate of coasting, to avoid crashing in to you, I damn well better see your brake lights come on. I don't care what the mechanics of your car's slow down rate are. Failing to give the driver behind you the information they need to avoid crashing in to you, should not be the cause of an accident.

"Once you see that word pop up, you can safely remove your foot from the brake while the car keeps the brakes engaged and the brake lights illuminated." Notice the spelling of the third-to-last word. Straight from Mercedes. Literally *zero* vehicles put your vehicle into park with auto hold.

"Do you know why I pulled you over today?" 'Because you got all C's in high school?'

The brake pedal does provide regenerative braking and transitions to normal braking when regen is exceeded, exactly as you foolishly described after spouting off nonsense. Nobody "has to learn" (perish the thought of having to learn something new!) to use 1 pedal mode. Imagine being so upset over having to learn something? What a tough life.

I think the idea is that if you want to slow down at a rate that regen can handle, that you use the one-pedal driving to do so. If for some reason, you need to slow down faster than that, the service brakes are available for a much harder rate of stopping, if you need to step on the brakes.

If I need to do anything other than coast naturally to avoid crashing in to you, I damn well better see your brake lights come on. I don't care what the reason for your slow-down is. Car manufacturers need to effectively communicate to other drivers.

Why are you traveling at such a close distance that if they "SLAM ON THEIR BRAKES" you're not capable of stopping in time? You always maintain a minimum distance such that you can stop without hitting the vehicle in front.

If the car slows down any faster than the natural rate of coasting, it should need to illuminate its brake lights. If I'm behind you, I don't care what the mechanics of your slow-down rate is. If I have to step on my brakes to avoid crashing in to you, I better see your brake lights illuminated. The last thing we need is accidents because of failures to give drivers the information they need to avoid the accidents.

Tesla's lights are fine. They trigger based on rate of deceleration.

But then how can a dealership charge $400 for a 90 second software update?

Problem of current regulation is discussed in this document: (IMMA) Proposal to harmonise stop lamp activation thresholds for regenerative braking in UN Regulation No. 78 with new provisions in UN Regulation No. 13-H

Ridiculous that you assume they weren't asked the question by someone who failed to relay the source of their question.

What is a "break light" and was it broken?

No shit genius.

How common is it for manual transmission drivers to operate in this manner? One pedal driving is the default with EVs, it's a really comfortable way to drive. Everybody but Hyundai gets this right it's not that hard.

@@joshuarosen465 Literally every person who's ever driven a manual transmission vehicle does this. It saves wear and tear on your brakes. Truckers do this. It's called Jake Braking.