Saddle choice is always difficult. I eventually settled on the tried-and-true Brooks B17. However, a B17 is never comfortable out of the box, it takes months to properly break one in, sometime several months. Once broken in, they are quite comfortable, and I have done century rides in jeans and ordinary underwear on a B17. In regard to saddle sores, as a former Army medic, one of the most common things I had to treat were rashes and skin infections, which are common in tropical places and the American South. A good way to prevent bacterial problems is to carry a small bottle of ordinary Head and Shoulders dandruff shampoo, and use it to wash your backside and shorts. The active ingredient, pyrithione zinc, is a good preventative/cure for saddle sores, tinea curis (known in the Infantry as "crotch rot") etc. Its cheap, easy to find, and it works.

I am a big Ergon SMC fan as well. For my butt and my riding, I've found that triathlon shorts are a good compromise for distance riding. They have a thin pad but dry out very quickly and are easy to keep clean if you rinse them out every now and then, and will quickly dry out if you put them on wet and just ride. On longer trips I carry one pair of triathlon shorts and either a pair of thicker padded shorts or a pair of thin nylon compression shorts to use as underwear. With that configuration I find I still ride with the triathlon shorts two days out of three on average. Everyone is different but that is what works for me.

You are spot on with your question - I’ve been cycling 50 years and for a lot of that time padded shorts just weren’t available - cyclists didn’t need them 50 years ago and don’t need them now, I think the origin of padded shorts was when saddles become narrow to allow for an aero riding position for racing, that made saddles very uncomfortable hence adding padding to the shorts, the downside of that, as anyone who does a high intensity exercise knows, is that you need to allow sweat to get away from the body as quickly as you can hence runners wear the thinnest man made materials and not cotton undies!

Excellent Review for me, just what I needed to see, Cheers Mat!

The reason so many long distance tourers swear by Brooks is their leather hammock construction. The C17 is their one model that does not benefit from that design. If you already found a saddle that you can spend a whole day on, good for you, but if you ever feel the need for more comfort, I would give leather Brooks a chance (or a leather saddle from some other manufacturer).

Over many long distance tours on our tandem, we've given up on Brooks B17s and shifted to Selle Anatomica slotted leather saddles without padded shorts. They perform flawlessly, are very comfortable over long distances, and the slots eliminate nerve numbness down below. The leather gives enough to make padding irrelevant. We just completed 1200km across France using these saddles: no saddle sores, no discomfort, no nerve issues. They are heavier than most but the comfort offsets that.

You hit on the key element at the very beginning of this video. Your's is an opinion (granted an informed one), but saddle choice is a most personal decision. I started really seriously cycling in the early 70s, and I always had a Brooks Professional leather saddle. In 1976 I pretty much switched entirely to bicycle touring. For many years my saddle of choice was a Brooks B-17. I was always wearing padded cycling shorts. Talk about being rigid! A new B-17 is like riding a stone. But, what I really liked was the shape and fit were perfect for me, and the finish of the leather was so smooth that there was zero chance of chafing. This was the major downfall I found in every padded saddle I tried out over the years. I would ride them for a month or two, then always go back to the B-17. In 2016 I bought a custom built Norwid Spitzbergen (sized exactly for me, Columbus steel tubing, Gates carbon drive with a Rohloff Speedhub, internal cable routing, etc. - A fantastic expedition bike.). On this bike I made a saddle change. I got a Brooks Flyer Special. The Flyer Special has the exact same dimensions as the B-17, but it also has two large springs under the back of the saddle. The springs are very rigid (not bouncy at all), but at the end of a long day riding on rough surfaces you really notice the difference. I expect you'd get the same effect with a B-17 and a Cane Creek Thudbuster seat post, but the combined cost of the seat post and a high quality saddle would be quite high. Anyway, it's always interesting to hear other people's experiences and to consider them when making new choices. For now though, I'll stick with my Flyer Special. Looking forward to following you on the Pan Am. One question...... Will you be following an established route, or will you plan an own route?

We appreciate your opinion. I ended up getting C17 carved and it's surprisingly flexible! I'll know more when I hit my century ride, cheers!

Over decades of my cycling experience the most important bit of advice for all types of bike fitting is - use "by the book" specifications and (if available) bike fitting as your starting point, then tweak to your own feeling as we are all different and small changes from the theoretical best may suit us best. Same applies to the saddle in my opinion. Took me long time to zero-in on my best fit (my riding is "rando" and "touring" mainly, similar to your topic and we seem of similar physical proportions). For me the winer is Brooks B-17 Narrow. I ride sometimes with padded shorts and sometimes without, B-17 Narrow feels good with either option. It is my best fit though, worth considering for others. Now in 9th yr of using it and no reason to switch.

The C17 carved is much more comfortable for long distance riding. I am basing this on many hours on both. Thanks for the video. Cheers

Great comparison Mat. I'm going to take a look at the Argon SMC. I'm moving on from my C-17 cutout as it is not comfortable anymore and gives me saddle sores as well.

Good morning, Mat, or maybe afternoon by the time you read this. That's a valid question, and the answer is one that many would like to know, obviously, for comfort reasons. I totally get why you ask and I agree with learning from people with more expeience, but unforunately this is not necessarily the holy grail to making the right choice. Personally I'm careful about giving advice, especially in cases where personal preferences rule the outcome, because what works for me may very well be equally as wrong for whomever receives my advice, and that's why my response this time is not going to be an advice or a specific suggestion, but more than anything just my humble opinion. The problem arising when people make suggestions, is that they are coming from a 100% subjective frame of mind, leaving out a number of considerations, and that's - of course unintentionally on the part of the one making the suggestion - how you also may end up in trouble. While some suggestions or advice will agree with your needs, there is a fair share that will not, and coming to something as personal as picking the right saddle for your long distance ride, using the wrong one could have serious implications. As someone well versed in long distance hiking, you know how important having the correct shoes is. Just like feet, all bums are different and personal needs can be extremely diverse. I have trouble expressing myself in few words but I guess what I'm saying is that nobody here can actually tell you what will work well or what to go for. It's your body and your needs, so the truth is your best chance of finding what works for you is physically testing different seats. Specific advise should be considered as general guidance purposes only. Sounds to me like you're well on your way with the Ergon, but whether or not it's "THE ONE" I expect you will find out while doing the TA 🙂 Also, many bikeshops offer a lending service that allow you to test different seats for a few days at a time. For free of course. This could be a good way to source a seat if you have LBS's that offer this service. Back in the 90ies I had a Scott mtb that had the best seat I've ever had, and I've been dreaming of finding something similar ever since. It was a gel-seat, very rounded shapes and the perfect width for my anatomy. The seatcover was acryllic, which of course you know is very smooth and "slippery", so chafing of any kind was never an issue. I could ride for days on end without ever even considering bibs. Unfortunately someone nicked it when I was at school. I really need to find a new seat myself, as I'm getting a lot of chafing from bibshorts. On a roadbike I'll wear bibs but on my trailbike I'd rather not. Cheers 🙂 Sincerely A.K.

I bought the same Ergon saddle after you talked about it in your videos at the end of the GDMBR, and I have had zero issues with it. Im the same as you as in I don't wear padded shorts, and haven't had any issues with saddle sores or pressure sores.

Hi Mat. I have the same requirements as you for a saddle, I'm fed up of relying on padded shorts for multi day trips. Too much maintenance. This video reminds me that I still haven't done a necessary sit-bones measurement. I'll do it tonight. No doubt it'll be an Ergon in a style that suits the drop-bar riding position on my touring bike. My sit up and beg style MTB position may well require a slightly different style of Ergon saddle. Looking forward to your next trip and saddle experiences 🙂👍

I just bought the B17 and I absolutely love it! If it is this comfy new, I can't wait until I get it broke in.

I totally confer. Getting ready to do the GDMBR in a month and I have the Ergon SMC and have been training with no chamois for a couple of months. I have several back to back centuries on it with no issues. I went down this route to avoid the slow drying of a chamois and synthetic material. Training has been with alpaca and merino wool underwear which is quick drying and anti-bacterial. I've been very happy with the setup.

Invest in an SQlab 612. It's the saddle of choice for many ultra distance cyclists. Also tilt your saddle down about 3 to 5 degrees at the front. Trust me , after 40+ years of cycle racing and long distance riding, I found out the hard way what actually works.

I started out with the C17 because they look great and seem so durable (which they are). Switched to a narrow ergon about a year ago and really like it as much as one can like a bike saddle...

I use the ergon smc sport gel . Have used it for just over 1600km now and I have to say it is excellent I dont use padded shorts anymore myself thanks to this saddle

As you know women get UTI's much easier than men and for that reason I chose NOT to use padded shorts. I have a saddle similar to the ergon SMC. I bring a spray with me of water and tea tree oil drops and use this to disinfect the inside of my riding shorts and gently my anatomical parts and even the saddle after each ride , so far so good! sometimes just a dab of vaseline helps to prevent any chaffing as a precaution.

I picked up a similar Ergon based on your previous comments about it. I am liking it quite a lot. It is currently on my trainer bike so its been seeing a lot of use lately

totally agree with you, have the Brooks C19 and its the same construction as your C17 ... no padding which I can deal with but you have to wear underwear under the padded cycling shorts to be comfortable and maintain good hygiene (sounds gross but it is what it is)...but the thing is those saddles never 'wear in' like the old school leather ones so they never adapt or become more comfortable over time. their USP is to be waterproof but to me that is meaningless for some thing u sit on ! I will probably try an upgrade in time, thanks for highlighting the Ergon ... cheers mat - i came here from the 'other channel' btw

I have been "waffling" (is that a word?) between different saddles and padded vs. non-padded shorts too. As everyone says it is all very subjective and personal.. I had been training with non-padded and Ergon SMC (core) for a couple months now. All was well until I did get one of those nasty sores (pimple).. I had hoped that not using padded shorts would simplify my trip in terms of what to take. I am about 4 weeks away from my long distance tour and have decided to go back to the pads for now.. I have found that not all padded shorts are created equal. I had used Assos Mille shorts on my last TransAm and had good luck with them. They have a wider protection area lower down where I did encounter sores and where other padded shorts really didn't help protect. So, I will bring a pair with me since they are very light weight. No way I could buy these on route. Should I have a problem, these shorts will make it much more bearable.. Good luck on your trip!

The non padded saddle and padded shorts makes more sense for road racing where it’s only one or two days. But for days on end it does make more sense to go the other way.

Love my C17, I probably also chipped in and recommended it. Have one on my steel tourer and Broken Road, but I do wear bibshorts too even for shortish rides. My backside has never been happier having switched after getting a small sore with a Charge Spoon saddle. Ultimately, if you do a crazy long ride like the GDMBR then it's a lottery whether you get away with sores at alll no matter what saddle you use.

Everyone has different needs. I toughened up my butt when I was young, and I'm happy with a rock-hard saddle and no padding in my shorts. These days, I ride either a Brooks B17 or a Brooks C17.

The cult following of Brooks saddles is something I don't understand. I've heard of others who had a similar experience with the C-17. My experience with the B-17 was that it developed a ridge in the middle that caused brutal chafing and it got worse and worse until it was unbearable. Everyone says "you probably tightened the frame too much" but I was loosening it and it didn't get rid of the "taint ridge". They require maintenance and they don't handle water well at all. I also have a Brooks Flyer Carved on another bike and it's pretty good but not without issues and constant adjustment to keep the same feel. I switched my B-17 for and Ergon SMC core much like you've done and I like this saddle a lot. I strongly recommend Ergon, I love all their products that I've tried so far.

What you missed is that all brooks saddles are hammocks, your bum is suspended between two anchors front and back. That creates suspension which then makes them comfortable. BUT also what is also important is saddle width based on your own bone width and riding position. On a flat bar bike like the Sondor more weight is on your seat compared to drop bars where more weight is on your arms, wrists and hands. A C19 saddle might be better for that uprioght position. the C17 you have there might work well on the Kona with drop bars. Hope I've explained that ok!

The C17 isn't for everyone, but they've been great for me, (I own 4.)

I am not a padded shorts rider, I have found the best saddle for long rides to be the leather Brooks. They just take a long time to break in so it will be a while till it does the job.

Thanks for sharing, nice video and information. I got a touring gravel bike (it is an odd one) from Decathlon, it came with a Brooks C-15, the carved one.... completely unsuitable for the riding position and proposed use, I couldn't ride it for 10 mins even with padded shorts, I really don't understand why they went with a C-15 instead of a C-17. In any case, I put a Selle Italia ST 7 Superflow (similar to the Ergon) on the bike and even through single trail, forest roads, I've done 120Km in a single day without padded shorts and sure enough I got a bit bruised (I didn't pick the smoothest of the roads) but made me question why the padded shorts since a good saddle will do it with less hassle and maintenance....

For a little extra the SMC gel is good for ironing out the pocket seams on jeans… both are extremely water and mudproof too standup to a lot of abuse for mtb

On a tour I can wear the same bibs for weeks just use Sudafed cream down below and you are fine. I use a brook C7 leather saddle

Similar experience; hated the Cambium, love the Ergon SMC. I got the gel version but the design is the same. Can’t speak to the gel because I didn’t compare them but the padding is quite firm. The saddle just felt right immediately. I also tried the flyer carved which is a very heavy saddle. It felt good but the cutout pinched the nether regions unless I wore pads so I nixed it.

Great review

Great review! Is the SMC any good for an upright riding/ touring position? I noticed you rode fairly upright during the GDMBR, same as me (85° back angle). I'm also considering the C19 since it's wider and usually recommended when sitting on your seatbones but I don't think that will solve the problem of hardness

For me I prefer a flat saddle, that is rounded on the back, and 125mm wide. I just cannot get on with wide saddles. But that is just me, every arse is different.

This Ergon saddle has flat part where sitting bones rest thus it doesn't stick into between as curved saddle do. I noticed several years ago my cheap Selle Grappa has flat sitting part and now I know there is a substitute would I need one. Thanks and have a good rides!

Right now i'm three weeks without cycling due to a bacterial infection, just after my last bike ride. I'm better now, but it was extremely painful and cumbersome.

4:30 you talked about padded shorts on the Divide, were you rotating a couple of pairs, so never wore the same pair two days running?

Never found my C-15 comfy either. It flexes too much. I prefer narrower and harder saddles. But the killer these days is over-engineered chamois pads. The basic tound flate style of the 80s was it. Not really padded, designed more to prevent chafing.

Interesting stuff, my Kona came with the Brooks B17 which I’m trying to break in, I’m only about 180 miles in and it’s still killing me! I did get an Ergon SR for my Raleigh Gravel/cross/commuter and I’m thinking of swapping them over, I think the SR is a little more sporty than the SM? I’ve not ridden many miles on it.

Or, maybe a recumbent bike?

Thanks for the information Mat, did you get measured for the saddle? I see other riders getting their sit bones measured and wonder if this would prevent having to try several different saddles - which seems both expensive and a waste of resources. Thanks, Paul

For me the Ergon is great, the Brooks are not. For the next rider, maybe the opposite. Only by chance did I discover the Wabi saddle that came on my Wabi Classics and lightning models, they have them all beat... for me.

Rookie question - the Ergon seems to be promoted as a mountain bike saddle. Does using it on a drop bar bike like a gravel bike compromise its effectiveness/comfort in any way? Thanks

I really liked the Brooks Cambium C13 Carved (Carbon Rails), but unfortunately I found it to be very squeaky over time, I think its where the rubber seating pad comes into contact with the carbon rails and the rivets, after a while it just got too much for me, I actually took it apart, greased the rivets and tried to resolve it that way but it remained a real annoyance so I dont use it anymore. . . .it was very comfy tho!!!

Sod Brooks, they weigh a ton, QC is rubbish, & their products cheaply made, but very expensive. I have a near new B17, that I got for my trail packing bike, (its near new for a reason) quality is poor at best; but if you're into leather, Berthoud is Rolls Royce, I have the Aravais (titanium rails) on my 1977 Flema, & love it. Recently I bought a very, very expensive Brooks bar tape. It was complete rubbish, I stripped it off the next day & threw it in the bin. On my race bikes, flat, hill climb, & my commuter, I ride light enough to use carbon rails. My tip top favourite is the Giant Fleet SLR forward, closely followed by the S-Works Toupe. I will never buy another Brooks product of any kind.

I think the C17 is best used with some good wool undies and normal canvas pants, the flex in the rubber is all you need.

One man's 2x4 arse hatchet is another man's armchair....

what is that bottle cage with the strap?

The brooks did not work for me. It was the worst saddle I've ever sat on sadly.

Ditch the unneeded saddle. You have clearly justified it's doesn't meet your needs. Besides, if it's not of a higher enough standard for a caterpillar, it's a no-brainer. No hoarding - get rid. Bet you wished you hadn't asked.

I love my c17, but I also wear padded shorts, if I didn't it would be too stiff.