#grandseiko #slgh005 Shout out to my father. Love you Dad Thank you Royal Jewelers in Andover MA! Contact them here, super great to work with- Bill@RoyalJewelers.com Gilead@RoyalJewelers.com (978) 475-3330 royaljewelers....
Пікірлер: 467
@markymark35723 жыл бұрын
GS really seem to be on a roll these days, gorgeous watch & a lot more interesting than a traditional seen it all before Swiss equivalent..
@Alexander-xv5lf3 жыл бұрын
@@williamstalvey6920 not
@thegraciefighter1023 жыл бұрын
@@williamstalvey6920 please explain how omega is better than GS ?
@Alexander-xv5lf3 жыл бұрын
@@thegraciefighter102 heritage is better but GS finishing and quality of watch is much better
@thegraciefighter1023 жыл бұрын
@@Alexander-xv5lf fair comment
@Alexander-xv5lf3 жыл бұрын
@@thegraciefighter102 thanks Mike! I am young collector of South Korea. I loved watches since i was teenager. It is really fascinating
@marvinberwart3 жыл бұрын
Seamaster 300 black and White birch is indeed a killer combo, congrats, a refined watch enthusiast collection Mr Williams!
@timmanion74593 жыл бұрын
About 49+yrs ago I purchased a Grand Seiko 5645-8000 linen dial, hi-beat movement when I was in Japan . It came on braclet and was one of the most beautiful watches I had seen . If memory serves, I bought that watch in 1972 . It's still in immaculate condition and I recently sent it to Japan for service. It's back and just as beautiful and accurate as ever . In my opinion, one of the most beautiful watches GS has made . Great video Bruce . Thanx
@AK-rq1cz3 жыл бұрын
That's amazing sir, I have a similar goal when I visit Japan. A timepiece with that level of craftsmanship and longevity is a monument to human achievement.
@BruceWilliams3 жыл бұрын
So cool thanks for sharing Tim!
@bwzes033 жыл бұрын
Bought this beauty just yesterday.. still on a buyers' high.. It is 'dressed' like the Swiss movements, with the polished screws, beveling and striping on the bridges. Just gorgeous, the dail, blued secondshand, markers and the finish on the bracelet. The full package is just stunning.
@thomasgeremia2173 Жыл бұрын
I just picked one up for $6250 Love it so beautiful
@Schnitzeljunge Жыл бұрын
Sadly no micro adjustement on the bracelet
@MMWorkzАй бұрын
@@Schnitzeljungethat’s ok, they look amazing on leather bands from what I can see. Switch to leather for summer and back to bracelet during winter. The detail on this watch is insane.
@brianmsahin3 жыл бұрын
Your dad has great taste. I have a Grand Seiko in my future! Really like it. As for the text on the dial, I do like it. It actually adds some balance to the look to have something down there rather than an expanse of white birches!! Excellent review..
@robinh29232 жыл бұрын
Totally agree re balance. Sometimes I feel like some dials (like Lange Saxonia thin for example) have maybe too much negative blank space
@ResumedPausing3 жыл бұрын
I think this White Birch has the potential to be like iconic pieces from Grand Seiko like the Snowflake
@BruceWilliams3 жыл бұрын
100
@michaelstephens32353 жыл бұрын
@@BruceWilliams Let's be honest, it's a far higher quality watch than the snowflake...two years ago I would have said GS releasing a steel watch at this price point was a mistake. But if people are going to fork out $10k for a no date sub, then they've priced this exactly right. It has something a little extra that will attract people, both dial and movement, and justifies the price.
@daveboy12473 жыл бұрын
@@BruceWilliams Do you think that the Grand Seiko SLGH005 White Birch is a good investment, do you think that it will keep its value or even increase in value if you decide to sell it in years to come.
@danielbarbee77123 жыл бұрын
For sure.
@MonicaHolly1433 жыл бұрын
@@daveboy1247 for sure it will hold its value but i don't think it's a watch that will give u 2k profit
@markgads80173 жыл бұрын
I think your dad is way ahead of the curve in regards to picking the 'best' watches. What a pair of watches. Should be a lot of pride in that family of yours, both you and your Father are exemplary in my opinion. Great video. Going to cost me lots of money. Wasn't long after the black Omega SMP that I bought mine. Oh well, GS AD here I come!
@g-mangregg50293 жыл бұрын
The dial “Advertising” verbiage does not in any way bother me. Green Hulk has SIX lines (7 lines if you include “Swiss Made”) so to me it is a non-issue. Also, BW SR, I am jealous of your truly stunning GS! Well done sir, well done.
@brikhausgaming94743 жыл бұрын
Disagree, I think if it was a clean look outside of the "Grand Seiko GS" it would be a little more perfect
@daverichards13373 жыл бұрын
It certainly would be a cleaner dial, but I still don’t mind the text either way. That’s the nice thing about watches, they’re all different.
@daveboy12473 жыл бұрын
@@brikhausgaming9474 Do you think that the Grand Seiko SLGH005 White Birch is a good investment, do you think that it will keep its value or even increase in value if you decide to sell it in years to come.
@Debonair.Aristocrat3 жыл бұрын
No, that stuff belongs on a 70's Rolex. That's why Credor is my go-to Seiko brand
@gabefore3 жыл бұрын
Pure class. I was lucky enough to see/hold one in the metal at my local AD a few weeks ago. It is absolutely stunning in person, and in my humble opinion, worth every single penny. A grail watch for your’s truly. Good on you, Bruce Sr. Wear it in good health.
@aaaaaa63163 жыл бұрын
I own four Grand Seiko Spring Drive watches - 015, 025, 275, and 285 - and I appreciate greatly their accuracy and beauty. I do not believe I will ever go back to fully mechanical watches.
@vleeflo12 жыл бұрын
I hate you! Not really. I’m just jealous! Nice collection! One day.
@steelsteez6118 Жыл бұрын
@@vleeflo1 I'm jealous too! That sounds like a banger collection.
@spawndwalk Жыл бұрын
so just get the 009 😆
@markbrada59433 жыл бұрын
Great piece and a very thorough review. One of the reasons for the 80 hour power reserve is the development by Grand Seiko of a brand new escapement. Not only is the new movement thinner and much more well laid out than previous GS high beat models, but this movement utilizes a dual impulse escapement that debuted in the SLGH003. This escapement is more efficient than a swiss lever, which I imagine helps the watch toward its longer power reserve. I didn't hear you mention the new escapement when you were discussing the movement, so I thought I would throw this comment up. Cheers!
@nighthawk00772 жыл бұрын
he actually mentioned it off the top
@SketeStevens3 жыл бұрын
Purchased this watch yesterday. I have never been so excited about handing someone my atm who had the intention of charging it for 9k
@sethzweig88023 жыл бұрын
This is my new grail watch - it is simply stunning. Big congrats to Bruce senior, I think you made an excellent choice indeed!
@alexanderlehmann46533 жыл бұрын
My new grail too - with some bracelet changes it would be close to perfection.
@hestrada34633 жыл бұрын
Great Watch perhaps the most beautiful non limited. More iconic, however, is the slgh003 because it is quite limited and was the first SS with 9sA. It also commemorates 60 years of GS. This movement ticks all the boxes for me
@josevasquez17813 жыл бұрын
I agree, I purchased the 003 Quick, it's has a few things over the birch. It has diamond cut faceted indexes, 18K sold GS logo on the dial and bracelet, better deep engraved Annivesary rotor, the watch itself and movement are separately individually numbered. The birch is nice as well.
@thoz3 жыл бұрын
Just bought my first Grand Seiko. I know your dad will love his watch!
@IANSPA3 жыл бұрын
It's a pretty big deal 36000 at 80 hrs that's why it's on the dial pride of place.
@my2l3 жыл бұрын
Ruins the dial
@fernandoocaranza45103 жыл бұрын
@@my2l not for me.
@pwally27143 жыл бұрын
You're right. That's pretty freaking impressive
@machtschnell74523 жыл бұрын
Yeah, he whiffs on the High Beat label.
@jeffostrander2082 Жыл бұрын
I saw this watch in person in NC last week. It in no way takes away from this watches provenance. In fact it sets it apart from the spring drive and gives the owner a chance to educate admirers.
@BPLeroyLotusEvora3 жыл бұрын
Bruce, your father has taste, class and style to buy this beauty! I wish him all the enjoyment he get out of it! Best wishes, Bart
@thaiexcellencemobile58163 жыл бұрын
One comment from a Graphic Designers perspective regarding text or no text on the dial. In Graphic Design we talk about the Design Grid. E.g if something is placed top left, something should be placed bottom right in a layout etc to achieve a balance. If you remove the bottom text , it becomes an inbalance of the layout and less harmonious. So its not only a matter of wheather or not the words are obsolete, its the fact that some text needs to be placed there to get a balance with the top text.
@BruceWilliams3 жыл бұрын
That is the definition of text for the sake of text. Time for a revolution!
@thaiexcellencemobile58163 жыл бұрын
@@BruceWilliams yea, its a tough one. I'd like to see what it would look like moving the date to just above the 6 o clock marker and one achieves much more dial 'balance' that way. I think Im going to do a mock up of this in Photoshop and post here as a link if I got the time haha
@larsstougaard70973 жыл бұрын
I think I have to agree on that beautiful dial " Hi beat 36000 and 80 Hours" text is a little draw back, but I could live with it 😊
@BruceWilliams3 жыл бұрын
For sure haha
@almcl93913 жыл бұрын
@@BruceWilliams completely agree (i would have picked up a snowflake ages ago but for the goofy oil gauge ruining the dial - stick all such on the back if you need it)
@soulure3 жыл бұрын
Incredible. They removed the stamp on the back. Beautiful.
@SketeStevens3 жыл бұрын
I own this watch and there is a stamp on the back but it is hardly visible, like a watermark
@vang6663 жыл бұрын
@@SketeStevens 2:57min - stealth indeed
@randyhamzah75113 жыл бұрын
It's nice to share the same hobby with your dad 👍 btw, great choice sir!
@Mahhsio3 жыл бұрын
Most watches, and those beautiful Grand Seikos especially should get rid of the date window asap. The dial is the main selling point and they're ruining it with this hideous window that honestly no one needs anymore.
@JasonTheWatchGuy3 жыл бұрын
I love that watch, the dial, the movement...everything about it! Congratulations to your Dad.
@damachine33 жыл бұрын
I purchased my Snowflake recently. Wish I would have known that this baby was coming!
@WCC73 жыл бұрын
completely different watches. congrats on the snowflake!
@HannesHeuer3 жыл бұрын
Have to agree congrats, I would still take the snowflake if you consider the price
@mkyhou11603 жыл бұрын
I think they will improve the snowflake at some point, slim it down a bit. When that happens and the current models crash in prices (like what happened when they changed the logo), I might swoop in and pick one up.
@SavedbyHim3 жыл бұрын
I like the spring drive movement better. The Snowflake easily holds it's own against this model
@duncanchiu36593 жыл бұрын
I got the snowflake recently but no regrets. Snowflake will forever be GS's icon. It's almost synonymous with Spring Drive and although GS is making big moves with high beats, spring drive is undoubtedly still one of their largest selling points...if anything, this watch is more a 2nd GS piece..you alrdy got their spring drive tech, time to play with other GS movements
@josephpeppard5613 жыл бұрын
This is not only a technologic marvel but also a work of art.
@bevan84772 жыл бұрын
A very considered and professional review. I own this watch and adore the dial, and like the hour markers and hands. I appreciate the clever movement. I like this watch so much that I sold a few months old Datejust 41 silver dial with fluted bezel and jubilee bracelet retrospectively to cover the purchase price. Which was about the same as that Rolex was new. Because this GS is a more beautiful watch. As another point of respect, the movement is more sophisticated than that in the Rolex. I do wish that the White Birch had a more tapered bracelet. I am happy with the text on the dial. Like GS, I’m proud of the achievements in the movement. A superlative timepiece.
@JohnCannonBand3 жыл бұрын
I think this is the most iconic grand Seiko ever made and it is already a legend to me.
@thomasmaloney61523 жыл бұрын
IF GS were about 15% cheaper across the board, I believe they could sideline the entire Swiss watch industry.
@Wheelers_Den_Kyoto2 жыл бұрын
I tried it on today in Kyoto and it was absolutely stunning. I had always thought I'd buy the Snowflake but now this is has overtaken it on my wishlist!
@Billeh5563 жыл бұрын
Why couldn’t they have given that bracelet a taper to say 16-17mm this would be perfect! With that said, one hell of a watch!
@millersciencesms7623 жыл бұрын
I completely agree with you.
@zachscheel37843 жыл бұрын
It's terrible as is. Literally the antithesis to the watch is the bracelet....
@Billeh5563 жыл бұрын
@@zachscheel3784 I would say it’s terrible, it’s very well made. If just needs those things in my opinion to be 10/10 right now it’s a 7/10
@martinkaplan18053 жыл бұрын
Thanks Bruce. Gorgeous watch, worth the price, agree with your enhancements.
@felo60353 жыл бұрын
Congratulations Mr. Bruce Williams Sr. on your new Grand Seiko, it is absolutely gorgeous. Enjoy in good health. Bruce, your review is fantastic. Awesome channel, thank you for your wonderful work.
@just-inedc23813 жыл бұрын
Wow that’s an amazing looking watch!! Congrats Mr Bruce Williams SR
@Fleur_de_lis2k3 жыл бұрын
The attention to detail does not disappoint, such a beautiful model.
@andreaiacolina3 жыл бұрын
This dial is mesmerizing! Love it.
@cpandsooz3 жыл бұрын
About to purchase myself too and also have a daily Omega SM300. Nice review thank you. That white birch is quite mesmerising.
@XuanNguyen-qz4li3 жыл бұрын
Very nice watch, not overly done, just perfect. Congrats 👏 to your Dad. Thanks for sharing.
@Diderot683 жыл бұрын
Glad to see a new bracelet from GS.
@English2Elvish3 жыл бұрын
6:51 To add; case height I am finding is a HUGE deal in making or breaking, perhaps one of the most under-scored features / concerns!
@davenamba3 жыл бұрын
It's time to replace my speedmaster. I had my mind set on the spring drive, titanium snowflake but now leaning towards the white birch. The Zaratsu polished finish is simply stunning. The down side, there's a 3 month wait for the GS white birch!! ARGG!
@PwnageJ3 жыл бұрын
that movement reminds me of patek. its unbelievable for a grand seiko to have a movement just as beautiful as a patek.
@TomasWatchReviews3 жыл бұрын
such an eye candy. Not many watches could be justified at this price, this one could I would say. The movement alone is stunning.. The dial, all those polishing edges and all.. So much work went into this watch. Lovely. Also, completely agree about the text on the face. I also think there is too much text on the movement as well.
@jeppewerring3 жыл бұрын
Best looking and finished GS movement to date.
@A_Dude_And_His_Watch783 жыл бұрын
Um this is outstanding. The decoration on that movement is lovely.
@buffalo369 Жыл бұрын
Congrats Bruce, your dad has bought a watch that would be handed to you, and you to your son. 😊
@pavlosbakomitros92763 жыл бұрын
You choose wise sir ,enjoy it,I hope some day to own this buety
@reemnajeeb3 жыл бұрын
Completely agree with your views. Text on the dial is superfluous, especially given where Grand Seiko is as a brand.
@richardtan3223 жыл бұрын
Congratulations Bruce Senior. Good buy and wear in good health. With this type of movement, it makes one wonder how much it will costs if it’s on AP, Patek or VC.
@davidbreckler53273 жыл бұрын
Way to go Dad! One of the honest watches on the market!
@light15313 жыл бұрын
Micro adjusts would increase the size of the clasp and rigidity. Omega constellation is fine and elegant without micro adjust, although there are half links. Within GS the 3/4 links means there is 1/4 adjustment if you replace a full link with a 3/4 link. Sounds fine by me...two 3/4 links when replacing two full links is 1/2 link! This GS is obviously worth the price hike!
@frankmastromauro56303 жыл бұрын
Congrats to your Dad on the purchase
@tom_marsden2 жыл бұрын
That movement is visually and technically stunning! Hope the watch has been treating your father well Bruce.
@wcarneirofilho2 жыл бұрын
Lovely watch. Congratulations to you dad! Great choice! 👏👏👏🤜🤛
@justinstallings78443 жыл бұрын
Listen, I love the dial and it’s nice that the movement is thinner, but 22mm lugs is too wide for my SKX let alone a smaller 40mm dress watch.
@drwindsurf3 жыл бұрын
Wow! Your dad has great taste Bruce. This is such a beautiful watch 😊👍
@Jabber-ig3iw3 жыл бұрын
Well having now tried one on I’ve completely changed my mind about this watch. It is stunning, just stunning. A bit pricey for me, but that dial, a new movement, the hype, got to be worth the price.
@altbinhax3 жыл бұрын
Congratulations to your father's choice. It's a great piece that adds to GS line up of icons across the watch technology spectrum from pure quartz, spring drive, and mechanical. The innovations in this piece's movement and the execution are a wonder to behold. I'm with you on the text above the six o'clock - it's superfluous, and I might add that the GS logo alone should be enough.
@robertschmidt95843 жыл бұрын
This timepiece is about 175g! It’s a nice piece, but weighs more than a submariner, yet thinner than a Submariner.
@hjer7313 жыл бұрын
Density is nice
@Jabber-ig3iw3 жыл бұрын
Some of us like heavier watches, that said having tried it on it doesn’t feel heavy.
@rafayz90333 жыл бұрын
It may be superfluous, but they literally only put the details which you were praising in the first half of the video. Maintaining that beat rate for that amount of time is impressive and they deserve to put it on the dial
@ginny19113 жыл бұрын
Excellent timepieces, BW Sr. You're a man of style and substance!
@adrianlovett34833 жыл бұрын
I agree the price really concerned me because it’s as expensive as a Rolex but doesn’t have world wide following and probably won’t keep its value as well . BUT having seen it the dial and watch are amazing and more impressive than any Rolex , so I guess it is worth it if any watch can be for the price.
@dompellegrino2755 Жыл бұрын
The first time I saw this piece I had to have it! The dial and movement make it amazing!
@drew40213 жыл бұрын
I love the lack of a power reserve and I agree with you on the not-needed text on the dial and the lack of micro-adjustment but this would be perfect imo if the bracelet was also visibly tapered.
@lilmoris1 Жыл бұрын
Not gonna lie, this looks much better than any Rolex datejust
@djakkey Жыл бұрын
I agree. I too do not like seeing the Hi Beat/80 Hours text on the dial. However, the Spring Drive label is always nice to see and I appreciate that placement
@shaunhuxley32753 жыл бұрын
For me its a total keeper. As a person with a smaller wrist the 1 mm smaller dial, compared to the snowflake, makes a big difference.
@richardgreen89193 жыл бұрын
Well done Mr.B.W. Senior.Two lovely watches.Enjoy.Another excellent review from 'junior' !
@MAKESQ5 ай бұрын
I agree with the suggestion that the dial would be more attractive, more elegant, without the writing on the dial.
@wagsbass3 жыл бұрын
Congratulations on your new GS Mr. Williams Sr. you have great taste
@gotshpilkes3 жыл бұрын
Totally agree with you about using the dial as a vehicle for promotional literature. Rolex seems like the worst but the practice is rampant.
@primecreator3 жыл бұрын
Wow, what a two watch collection. Superb.
@curtbrown77183 жыл бұрын
Beautiful piece.
@uwe74453 жыл бұрын
Hi Bruce, in German we would say: this is a hammer 😃 This watch is just amazing, the dial is beautiful and I also guess that the thinner case is an improvement. And still GS flies under the radar what is an advantage from my perspective. What do I think overall? Would like to have this timepiece. BR Uwe
@mctmartinez1 Жыл бұрын
Excellent purchase Mr Bruce Williams Sr!👍🏻
@waltroseberry97122 жыл бұрын
I agree with you that the appearance of the watch face is diminished due to the superfluous advertising verbiage. I have a Winter, which I LOVE!
@gregorypaulbox30353 жыл бұрын
I agree with the superfluous text. I don't mind it being there but it does remind me of vintage GS, King Seiko and Lord Marvel. For example, my Lord Marvel 5740-8000 has an applied 'Seiko' logo below the 12 applied marker and a printed 'Lord Marvel' followed by '36000' below that. It was much more important to advertise the technological innovation back in 1967 when Seiko introduced the in-house movement. I think removing the text on the 'White Birch' would change the dial aesthetic in a positive way and give the watch a more understated elegance. The case geometry is very nice, the dial is wonderful and the movement is a technical marvel. Your father has been very blessed.
@bindoctrinated31473 жыл бұрын
GS dials are insanely cool.
@simonwright68823 жыл бұрын
MR Williams sr obviously has impeccable taste! What a one two. The omega being the jab and the GS is the knock out. Congrats on your purchase.
@shawnlavigne90693 жыл бұрын
That's an awesome watch. The text doesn't bother me at all. The movement is just wow. I'd take this over a rolex any day, every day. Your dad has great taste.
@SketeStevens3 жыл бұрын
I own this watch and honestly did not even notice the text until it was pointed out, I quickly fell back into a trance starring at the dial
@deanvanlaarhoven14133 жыл бұрын
Yes, I think "High Beat" alone would be perfect.
@ZR44843 жыл бұрын
congrats to your dad - amazing pick up!!
@williamrappard8233 жыл бұрын
I've held this watch in Bern and it's stunning, but I share your view on the superfluous dial litterature. I'd love to see this movement in an integrated bracelet type case. Cheers from Switzerland for the nice channel !
@MDVH923 жыл бұрын
I think it would be better off without the "80 HOURS" on the dial. However, the "HI - BEAT" is of historical significance for both the GS and KS lines.
@BruceWilliams3 жыл бұрын
True, but also reinforcing the tradition of it. I wish watch designers would look more to the future
@MDVH923 жыл бұрын
@@BruceWilliams don't you think mechanical watchmaking is about holding onto the traditions while staying contemporary with a foot on the future?
@BruceWilliams3 жыл бұрын
@@MDVH92 some traditions yes, but not all 👍
@English2Elvish3 жыл бұрын
This is likely the GS I would buy!
@michaeledwardlenzi3 жыл бұрын
Great watch choice, Bruce Senior! I am envious. --Michael
@NWA_19193 жыл бұрын
That dial is insane! :o It has to be the best looking dial i've ever seen.
@BigAntVideo3 жыл бұрын
Great review - very even handed and fair. I think you're spot on about superfluous text on watch faces - text jumps you out of the composition and degrades it. However it shows how beautiful this watch is that that effect is minimal. Kudos for GS to be able to keep pushing with true innovation in what is becoming a crowded market sector.
@theJade3 жыл бұрын
Congrats Bruce Sr. The piece looks amazing.
@springinfialta1063 жыл бұрын
Finally a "wooden" watch worth purchasing. ;-)
@zachscheel37843 жыл бұрын
This watch is beautiful and delicate. Why in the f*ck would they include a mega chunky bracelet that's 22MM?! It's like they see a work of art and every time ask themselves, "How can we bring this down a peg". So exhausting...
@sleepdeprived9181 Жыл бұрын
I like the description of the video.
@juanpablozapataartist.zapa2202 Жыл бұрын
Great reiew! I have to tell you, it is worth the money, amazing craftsmanship, artistry and technology incorporated in this piece. It doesnt bother me at all that announces the 80 h PR and the 5 herts info, for you could be irrelevant because of your knoweledge in watches, but for new enthusiasts it is a good piece of information that allows them to see the watch in a new dimension. The dial is just stunning and the fact that its idea came from the trees around the lab makes it more interesting. the polishing is bold and works so well. honestly I am just discovering Grand Seiko. I am impressed. Thanks for your reviews, you are great
@hichambenmira3 жыл бұрын
Mr. Williams senior has an amazing taste. I wish him a lot of fun with his new beautiful watch. I totally agree with you on the text dial. It is in some cases too much. Love your review on this watch. 👍👍😊
@noritakaakamatsu97132 жыл бұрын
I agree with you. White Birch would be better without the text on the dial. I would be lost more with the beauty if without the text.
@Gazza-zg2tr3 жыл бұрын
Yes i agree a micro adjustment system on the strap would be great,i have a snow flake and that could do with an adjuster.
@glenbuyer87383 жыл бұрын
I have a similar collection to your dad, white dial smp 300 and a GS skyflake, very happy with both watches
@aaronmunro58183 жыл бұрын
Great review, and some good points. Disagree about removing the text on the bottom part of the dial. For my eye, it needs that text for balance. That's a lot of blank real estate down there. I also owned the VC Overseas, and felt it also needed some text there for visual balance.
@j.craigh.34803 жыл бұрын
My new favourite watch. Literally a jewel!
@fernandoocaranza45103 жыл бұрын
Y really don't care about the advertising in the dial. It's perfect.
@seanmcginnis41123 жыл бұрын
BW Sr. has great taste! Incredible two watch combo!
@songsaboutyourmom2 жыл бұрын
So glad to see they finally did something about the silly clasp, can't believe it took so long to correct the borderline horrible clasp of the snowflake etc.